91Èȱ¬

I live in Gedling and am probably not alone in feeling that we are being treated as transport outcast.

The east side of the city appears to be a forgotton zone as far a s planners are concerned. We have just lost one bus route, which if you happen to live to the east of Westdale lane means that you now have only one bus route and one that takes an extreemly long route in via Netherfield.

We have a perfectly good train line, set up for the old Gedling colliery cleanup, It was discussed at one time about running a limited service on that line into town - but nothing has been heard of for ages.

Instead of which we have increased traffic through Colwick, Carlton Hill and Arnold lane.

Why is all apparent emphasis on the west and south of the city with no solutions offerred for those out to the east

Terry Lock
Nottingham

and in reply...

Terry, I think your dream of reopening of the Gedling branch should be realized relatively soon. The latest proposals for new NET lines specifically mention that earlier proposals for an NET line to Gedling would be shelved as the line was going to reopened to heavy rail traffic instead. Hope it won't be too long!

Stanley
Basford, Nottingham

I am currently working on a
university project that is about
the Nottingham tram and i've been
very interested in reading peoples
coments on the tram. It seems to me
that the majority of the critisims
stem from people not actually
knowing the true facts regarding
the project.

Since studying the topic i have
obviously gained more knowledge and
facts than most people would have
and from what i have learn't i feel
that there will be many advantages
of having a tram system.

Patience will be needed by everyone
as the disruption is annoying but i
can assure you that it will be well
worth it in the long run.

Bob
Nottingham

I have read each comment offered regarding the implementation of the 'new' tram system and the choice of route into the City. I agree with almost everything each person has written.

I understand the problems with inter-city congestion. My son, until late, attended school in the City Centre, I would like to stress I have travelled both the Chilwell to Nottingham and Hucknall to Nottingham routes at least four times a day.

Traffic congestion eats far more comparitive time in travelling from Hucknall to Nottingam, even with the Robin Hood Line. My new home area needs transportation.

I have endevoured to be 'green' for over two years and utilised all modes of transportation to/from the city. The bus service (45) Mansfield to Nottingham is exceptionally unrealiable and extensive in both distance and time consuption and cash, if frequently used. Perhaps this is why unemployment is so high in the Hucknall area, use the bus and loose your job (you never ever get to work on time)

Central trains/NCC have introduced 'an extra carriage' for 'comfort' and a couple of extra trains at (NCC money spinner) 'peak-times'. How enlightened of CT and NCC executives - the route has been extended well over it's intial length and still they operated until recently, with the same number of seats when the line first opened. The trains are so full with passengers the conductors cannot collect the fares/revenue.(yes, use the train at this time and travel free - is this he reason why the train service is then reduced to a totally unrealiable hourly service during the day and are the CT staff provided with a look-up table stating excuses why almost each train is late/deleted from service)?

As a commuter you are faced with the inherient problems with public transport, the unclean environment, no seating(animals are often transported with more space and humanity than the current Central Train and NCT policy permits)unclean and unkempt passangers/drivers/conductors, fowl mouthed thugs and parent(s) whom excersise no or very little control over or thought to their child(ren) - Who are also unkemp, unclean little thuglets, whom are allowed (if space permits) to run round, jumping on seats (think dry-cleaners) and disturbing and distracting the driver. Whom is often driving like Sterling Moss to make lost time - please do review the riduclous timetables which are of very little passenger use and only cause the bus drivers to drive speedily, dangerously and discourtously.

Fellow parents please contol your children, they grown into the fowl mouthed teenagers which also grace the bus with their joyful screams and torrents of abuse at elderley passangers at 'home-time'. On reflection judging by the unbelievable behaviour of school students (in uniform), I wouldn't readily employ from the area in question.

I do believe the implementation of NCT will raise prices of homes along the route and maybe create few jobs for the local people.

Unfortunatley you are still going to be faced with the ungreatful moanings of people resistant to change (for the better). These people should contact residents in Croyden, Surrey and see how their outlook has changed. The delays are down to utilities/services rather than construction of the tram system, get angry with the electricity, water, phone companies not tram constructors. I thank them for the work they do.

I know as a one-time regular public transport user there is a grave danger that the tram service will be reduced to a quicker mode of inhuman movement to a wide range commuter cattle and unappreciative, disruptive and damaging wild animals and off-spring.

I have found I cannot afford the unreliabilty and the uncleanliness both visually and aurally of public transport. I wish the new users luck with the trams, I will continue to use and enjoy my small car to protect my wallet/personal possessions, sanity and family. Please try public transport you really begin to appreciate the virtues bestowed upon car use, affordability (if mutiple buses/trains required for journey), punctuality, sociabilty(take others in a car share)and most importantly you will NOT be exposed to violence,surly staff and passangers and you stand a high chance of retaining your wallet and job.

Tram implementation is not going to change people or modern day routine behaviour in my home area, but I do keep my fingers crossed.


Rachael
Hucknall, Nottinghamshire (formerly of Chilwell, Notts)

This debate that you are having up in Nottingham, sounds very much like deja vue to the debate in Croydon where people did not see what the point was of digging up the roads around the town.

Some people on the tram route have now got quicker connections to Croydon where their journey times have been cut by up to a third. Other places like Wimbledon and Mitcham now have direct trams with towns on the other side of Croydon like Beckenham and Elmers End.

Myself and other regulars that ride on the Croydon system look forward to the times when the system is open and we can take a trip on the Nottingham System. The upheaval of a year or two in construction, will reveal the benefits at the end.

Robert Oakes
Epsom, Surrey

I live in Sheffield & my girlfriend lives in Bulwell Nottingham. I find the comments on the proposed Nottingham tram very similar if not exactly the same as what was said in Sheffield before the tram system was built. Now, I know very few people, if any in Sheffield who critisise the tram. I use it every day to travel to & from work in Sheffield. It is NOT virtually empty on any occaisions, save perhaps the last night trams! In fact, during the day, especially at rush hours, there are simple too many people wanting to use the tram for the number of them available! It's cheap (£6.30) for an unlimited travel seven day pass & clean, no pollution, quicker than any other form of transport in the city centre, including buses as the lights are weighted in its favour. If Nottinghams tram turn out to be half as successfull as Sheffields version, then you are onto a winner! Stop whinging Nottingham & give the tram a chance before you condemn it!!!

Steve Cooper
Sheffield, England

Okay, so while the tramway system is being built (whether its necessary or wanted is another matter entirely!) I understand the necessity for diversions to be set up. BUT are we really expected to drive up and down Maid Marian Way continually between the bottom of Derby Road and Friar Lane? I only wanted to go into Pearson's Carpark for a short while, but getting there from Tollhouse Hill took me FIFTEEN MINUTES of driving round and round! Heaven help any stranger to the city! I know the planners want to keep cars out, but is sending drivers round the bend (literally!) really the best way to go about it? Or did I miss some signs somewhere?

Margaret Pugsley
Nottingham

I live near Croydon and have followed with great interest Croydon Tramlink. Like in Nottingham, doubts were raised durring construction. Now the system has been running for 8 months, you can't travel on a tram and not hear comments like "These are wonderful" or "I hope it is extended soon" or "All the construction work was worth it". It is a pain to watch a city dug up but very interesting once the rails go in and trams start running. Once the system is open, it will be a huge success. Croydon is some 50% up on predictions already. Anyone interested in the details of a modern tram system should read my website at which is a totally independent website on Croydon Tramlink.
I look forward to the day NET opens for business.

Stephen Parascandolo
West Wickham, Kent

Stop moaning.This tram system will be great.I think it will be worth every penny.It will improve nottingham,s transport system greatly.Our bus service is useless so what are you moaning at.

Wayne Gretkzy
Nottingham

Though I am in favour of trams in principle. I recently used a tram in Sheffield to find that it was virtually empty. I am also concerned that one or two lines will have a little impact on traffic, as many areas of the city will not be served.

Andrew Kordecki
East Bridgford

I live in Arnold. I used to use the bus to get in to work in the city centre. It was sheer misery - the stop had no shelter so I got wet through whenever it rained; the bus was never on time; it was crowded, dirty and uncomfortable. Also, coming back home on dark evenings, I felt threatened walking into the small streets off High Street, because no police ever bother to patrol this area. It used to take me 20-40 minutes to get to work, plus anything from 10 to 30 minutes spent waiting for the bus. The cold and the traffic fumes experienced at the bus stop always aggravated my asthma. Now it takes 10-15 minutes by car and I have far fewer breathing problems. The tram will be useless to me: I never go to Hyson Green or Bulwell. It will not help me to get in to work from Arnold. If Nottingham centre is closed to cars, my main clothes and gift shopping will move to Meadowhall or somewhere else with convenient and free parking. I am already looking into leaving my job and working for myself from home, because I fear the day when it will no longer be possible to drive into the city. It is useless trying to force people out of cars when the alternatives are so pathetic.

Bus hater
Arnold

Having used Trams & light rail systems in this country, on the Continent and recently in San Francisco and San Jose, California, where they are all used with quite cheap fares, and are being extended, I am very much in favour of them.

However, many of your correspondents favour a line out to Beeston and Long Eaton. Both these places, together with Attenborough already have Railway Stations - surely these could be used as Park & ride" in the same way as the Bus "Park & Rides" with the train journey into Nottingham included in the price of parking.

The Stapleford & Sandiacre area which had 2 Railway Stations now has none and the Bus journey into Nottingham can take up to an hour for 6 miles. We are in desperate need of a better transport system, much more so than many other parts of Nottingham.

Joyce
Stapleford

Many people on the forum have criticised the route of the tram, and questioned why it is as it is.

The tram is funded mainly by the ERDF (European Regional Development Fund) probably with matched funding from tax-payers money (not that ERDF money isn't taxpayers money)

I have experience with ERDF bids, and can tell you that the bid would have to have included lots of political correctness and pour money into inner city areas. That is what the ERDF funds. If it had followed a route useful for students and commutors, the bid would undoubtedly have been rejected.

Richard Cartledge
Nottingham/Sherwood

Anyone got the answers to the following:

1) What is the annual turnover of the whole of NCT?

2) What is the annual cost of running the most expensive bus route in Nottingham?

3) Where is the power for the trams coming from, and and how many passenger miles per litre of oil or coal equivalent (actually burnt at the power station, not converted to locomotive power at the tram) will they get?

4) How wide are the Melbourne streets that carry trams (from 40 to 126 km outside the city), and what is the minimum radius of the curves on them?

5) What powers will the (private) operator have "to move whatever is in the way" ..... "if its path is ever blocked"?

6) Why couldn't the council carry out the "the work which is currently being carried out on the streets .... to move utility services away from the path" of cars which pay £35 Billion pa in motoring taxes?

7) Why, "Once Line One has proved its worth - which it will - we will have a better case for developing future lines" if "The route was chosen as it's the _most_ financially viable."?

8) How is this proving that public transport is a practical and environmental alternative to car use if "most passengers will be former bus users. So a corridor of high existing PT use will be the best first line. Other lines will follow, but you have to start with the route most likely to pay back the loans - otherwise there'd be no tram at all."

9) And if tram fuel was taxed at 340%, as it must be when the tax revenue from motorists dries up, how will this affect the calculations?

Bogush
Nottingham

and in reply...

Good to hear from you again Bogush - about time you made some comments on this section. Here are my attempts at answers to your queries:

1) Don't know Bogush. What is your point?

2) Don't know this either. But I'm sure it pays for itself just like NET will.

3) Very good Bogush. I think we all know the power will come from the National Grid, and the switch to renewable energy here is another issue to be resolved. See later comment on power stations in 9).

Energy consumption per passenger-mile WILL be lower than for buses, and certainly lower than cars (despite what you claim). Trams will only use energy when they are moving, not when they are stationary like internal combustion engines.

Pollution is zero at point of use too, somewhat significant when you've lots of people around as in cities. DON'T MAKE ME BREATHE YOUR SMOKE.

4) Don't know, but the tram was chosen because of its ability to take tight corners. You're not hoping to overtake the tram on a 30mph road are you?

5) Again, better ask the relevant authority. Parking on a tram line would be a rather obvious and stupid act though, similar to parking at the entrance to the Vic Centre car park.

6) Good idea, but hardly a priority. Might be a little expensive relative to the benefits? Services need to be moved for the rail foundations as well as to avoid future conflicts. You'd be a bit daft to leave the gas main below the concrete slab of the tram tracks.

7) What is your point? Would you build the least financially viable route first?

8) Don't you think bus users will want to use the tram? If there was no current bus service on the NET corridor you'd have to wonder why not.

As the network develops transfer from car will increase since you'll be able to make your entire journey by the NET. The whole reason for it being a high quality rail-based mode is its ability to attract car users. To those who say the bus service is adequate, why don't they use it?

9) Don't be daft Bogush. NET will have to pay its electricity bill just like you do. You're right, there is a case for higher carbon-based taxation to encourage energy efficiency and renewables, but a change in power generation wouldn't affect the tram. Your car would still need oil though.

No-one's banning you from using the service, so why so angry? This is an investment in Nottingham. It seems some people don't like seeing money spent on our city and would rather it stagnated.

Pleeeaassse, can you say something positive about anything? How's about some answers rather than relentless questions and criticisms? Maybe a positive suggestion about how we can reduce energy consumption and congestion? Improve quality of life? Do you honestly think returning to car worship is the answer?

Stanley
Basford, Nottingham

Not only have these trams cost every man, woman and child in Nottingham £200 to build (so far) they will also cost money to travel on, and they even boasted that it will take make for 2,000,000 less car journies per year - that means in 20 years, it will cost a staggering £5 per car journey!!!! It is Nottingham's Millenium Dome - a disgrace - nothing more than a bus trapped by rails. At least a bus can steer round obstacles or be easily re-routed, a tram is a bus which costs £200,000,000 and once it's route is decided, it can't be changed. DISGUSTING!!!!

Richard Cartledge
Nottingham

Ok trams may be good in the long term but the council needs to realise what the people want. I am doing a speach on controvesial issues in english, and have chosen this as my topic as most people in the city, that i have talked to do not want the tram sevice. I think it would be a good idea if they chose the right routes such as from Clifton or Beaston, has anyone seen what it is like there around university boulivard, that would be money well spent.

Kim
Nottingham

and in reply...

How many people have you spoken to that say they don't want the tram? Consultation work suggested a very high approval rate (I think it was 80-90%), and this was city-wide, not just along the route. Will everyone stop complaining that the entire network isn't being built at once? It would cost circa £1 Billion and cause enormous disruption to build the entire system from scratch!

Stanley
Basford, Nottingham

Whose idea was this tram thing? Have I been consulted about it? I live in Beeston and work in the Lace Market (5 miles, I think). It takes me over 1 hour to get home in the evening. I leave at 4.45pm now, in order to avoid the REALLY BAD traffic. Whichever way I go, I get stuck, Derby Road, Ilkeston Road, University Boulevard. Perhaps I should go by bus? Nope, only one bus every 20 minutes and that's full up by the time it gets to my stop. I could go by bicycle but then I'm one of these working mums who is trying desparately to manage work & childcare without feeling too guilty, and I can't even consider subjecting my 6 year old to the back of a bike through the streets of Nottingham with all those frustrated drivers keen to kill any bike that manages to overtake them at 10miles per hour. Why does the tram have to go through Hyson Green, Bulwell and Hucknall-haven't they got hundreds of buses and a new Robin Hood rail link? Most City Centre workers and shoppers commute from the East, South and West of Nottm, NOT the North. Why do I have to put up with the disruption, when I can't even use the blasted thing? Why should I have to pay for it as well. Why vote Labour ever again in County or City council elections? Anyone got any answers please?

Babs
Nottm

and in reply...

One of the comments that is frequently mentioned is that Line 1 goes through a corridor with a high frequency bus service. This is not a coincidence. The route was chosen as it's the most financially viable. It's a fact that whilst many car users will be attracted to NET, most passengers will be former bus users. So a corridor of high existing PT use will be the best first line. Other lines will follow, but you have to start with the route most likely to pay back the loans - otherwise there'd be no tram at all. The bus services will be changed to feeders when NET opens.

Stanley
Basford, Nottingham

It seems like an excellent idea and is just what Nottingham needs. The only thing that concerns me is that it may go the way of Sheffield, and fully get into the hands of a big company like Stagecoach.

Stuart
Nottingham

If you're trying to get people to use public transport instead of their cars then why is the route mainly for the areas of low car ownership? They already have a reasonable bus service (I know as I live in Sneinton).

Pat Bradbury
Nottingham, UK

Is someone from the City Council going to help this debate along with a few facts?

- Are trams quicker? How long will some typical journeys take?
- What proportion of travellers will have to stand?
- How much will the journeys cost?
- Will other public transport facilities be reduced?
- How frequent will the services be?
- What will be the seating (& standing) capacity of the trams?
- Will tere be anything to stop motorists trespassing on to tram lanes (just as they do with bus lanes at present)?

Rob Edlin-White
Carlton, Nottingham

In reply...

We have previously had a contribution from Steven Barker, the NET Communications manager. I have retrieved it from our archives for you. Hopefully it will answer some of your questions.

Dan Sinclair
91Èȱ¬ Nottingham Online

First of all, congratulations on the new site - it looks great and is very informative. Also, it's good to have a new opportunity to hear people's views about the tram, which have been very balanced. In response to some of the points raised so far …

1) The tram runs for 10km of its 14km length alongside the Robin Hood Line. This route was chosen for its low car ownership, high public transport use and because it provides a new link for disadvantaged former coalfield communities and inner city areas. The Robin Hood Line services are not being duplicated, they are being complemented by a new form of public transport which provides an entirely different service to trains by carrying more people more frequently to more places. It gets people around within urban areas, rather than ferrying them between urban communities, and as such, will enhance the Robin Hood Line services. Once Line One has proved its worth - which it will - we will have a better case for developing future lines…

2) We are looking into the feasibility of new lines to create a network, with consultants working right now to determine where future lines could go. Options being considered include lines south of the river towards West Bridgford and Clifton, west towards Beeston and east towards Gedling.

3) Evidence from tram systems developed elsewhere shows that there is a likelihood that house prices will rise as the areas the tram passes through benefit from its regenerative qualities.

4) Hyson Green, which will of course suffer probably the worst of the inevitable disruption, is set to be the area which gains the most in the long-term, both from having a first class public transport system on its doorstep, linking it with the city centre and enabling it to recreate itself as an even more vibrant community.

5) One correspondent asks whether cars can be banned from the city centre. The City Council is creating a 'Clear Zone' at the heart of the city, which initially restricts the vehicles allowed to travel through it, which includes the tram, of course. Eventually, it is hoped the heart of Nottingham will be a zero-emissions zone.

6) The tram will be given priority on the streets, and if its path is ever blocked, the operator has powers to move whatever is in the way. Finally, the work which is currently being carried out on the streets is to move utility services away from the path of the tram - so any work in the future won't be disrupting tram services once they're up and running in November 2003!

Stephen Barker
NET communications manager
Nottingham


in relation to this mail...

I hope I get more answers than Rob Edlin-White.

Then again, perhaps this is an indication that there is, perhaps, a lack of traffic, engineering, and financial planning on this project.

The only answer he has got is that "the _operator_ has powers to move whatever is in the way" (presumably into the bus/car lanes, thus giving the tram a monopoly of the road - see, this project has been carefully thought through, and planned down to the smallest detail after all!;-).

Or perhaps the answers are highly commercial and confidential - after all, they don't want all those rival Nottingham Tram operators learning all their trade secrets!

Bogush
Nottingham

Having visited and lived around the Nottingham area. I am glad to see you have seen the light and introduced Trams. In Melbourne we have the largest tram network outside Europe, with new lines, and new trams being added to the network of over 500klm of lines. They are fast, clean and everybody uses them.

Malcolm Freeman
Melbourne, Australia