Farrell facing ultimate test (246)
- 12 Sep 07, 02:21 PM
Versailles - So how did it come to this?
After four years of planning - or maybe four months, no, on second thoughts, weeks, perhaps days 鈥 will be occupied by a man with no experience of playing senior rugby union at fly-half.
Surely some mistake? 鈥楩raid not, for those of you of a red rose persuasion.
You could put it down to extreme bad luck, and Brian Ashton certainly deserves some sympathy there.
After all, who could have predicted that
Oh hang on, with his record鈥
And then Olly Barkley, the only other number 10 in the squad, strains a hip 鈥渞unning around鈥 and all of a sudden, it鈥檚 鈥淯h-oh, worst-case scenario time鈥.
If both incidents were unfortunate, to say the least, Ashton did not allow for such an eventuality when he settled on his 30-man squad.
Many felt that a third stand-off, either Charlie Hodgson or more likely Toby Flood, who can also play inside centre, should have been included in the original party, at Farrell鈥檚 expense.
But 鈥淔az鈥 was spoken about as of one of England鈥檚 鈥渓eaders鈥 in the dressing room, a strong 鈥減resence鈥 who was also made defensive captain for the first warm-up Test against Wales at Twickenham.
The trouble was, all the impressive stuff had been behind closed doors, on the training ground, with little supporting evidence to date on the pitch.
I was at Saracens鈥 Vicarage Road ground in Watford in March 2005 and then England coach Andy Robinson waxed lyrical about how he could 鈥渞evolutionize鈥 the way rugby union was played.
It seemed a lot of pressure to heap on the shoulders of a 30-year-old with dodgy knees, but for the the critics muttered, 鈥業 should hope so too鈥.
Well, if there was ever for a time for payback, Friday night is it.
No pressure Andy, it鈥檚 only the Springboks. If you could dictate the game plan and kick the goals as well, that would be great.
But can a player with only six caps to his name really be expected to succed in such an undertaking in the cauldron of a pivotal World Cup match?
Those who know Farrell well from his time in rugby league 鈥 Wasps head coach Shaun Edwards and England defence coach Mike Ford, formerly at Saracens, among them 鈥 have no doubts about his ability to thrive on the big stage.
Those from a rugby union background, such as former England backs Jeremy Guscott and Stuart Barnes, have long urged their old mentor Ashton to ditch the Farrell 鈥渆xperiment鈥.
But Ashton was one of those who supported the move to recruit Farrell from league two years ago.
He was named in England鈥檚 Elite Player Squad with indecent haste in September 2005 , before he had even played a game of union, but did not play a single game in his first season.
A toe injury eventually required surgery, and then when he was on the verge of a return, he suffered whiplash when someone ran into the car he was travelling in.
That exacerbated an underlying problem in his back, a prolapsed disc keeping him out for the rest of that season.
He eventually made his Saracens debut last autumn as a blind-side flanker, but swiftly moved to centre and made his England debut in their opening Six Nations match against Scotland in February.
After three Tests, the last of them a record defeat to Ireland in Dublin, he was injured again, and missed out on the summer Tests in South Africa after being struck down by the virus which afflicted half the England squad.
So, after an inconclusive start against Wales, and replacement outings against France, and the USA last Saturday, here he is, England鈥檚 main man to take on the Boks.
鈥淔rom my point of view it is exciting, a challenge,鈥 Farrell said on Tuesday when quizzed by reporters at England鈥檚 Versailles hotel.
鈥淚t is a big game, and I have had a few setbacks since coming to union, but that makes it even more interesting.鈥
That鈥檚 certainly one word for it, Andy.
Bryn Palmer is the 91热爆 Sport website鈥檚 rugby union editor.
Comments Post your comment
What is going on ?????????
Why not stick Vickery at Fullback and put Jason Robinson in the front row..............
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Let's face it, the last game was a disaster with no momentum, invention or movement - glacial! So I think this is a good move - he will have something to prove, he's a big man for a big occasion - time to step up.
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What about Mike Catt - is he injured?
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I personally quite like it. Farrell's passing is quality, and he can kick ok both tactically and for the posts. He's bigger and can stand up to getting hammered by their back row better than Catt would. He's also too slow for centre IMO.
I reckon its the best we can do with what we've got left. We need to match them up front all game, Burger being out is a godsend.
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Is it just me that thinks this is just taking things a touch beyond a joke? Surely there must be another alternative? Catt? Tait?
I really hope he pulls it out the bag for Englands chances in the tournaments sake but seems an immense gamble.
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Seems to me BA has a few choices this might just work out. Paul Vickery could not be considered becauce of his BAN !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Let's all just calm down and relax - England are still unbeaten in the pool stages - ok not a convincing win - but still a win - remember England in the last world cup also had a few 'hiccups' and still won the damn thing (although I bet sometimes those remaining wish they hadn't)...
Yes Faz is a risk but he is a good size can "swap" around with Catt when needed and let's face it what other option was there? - send Jonny home when he's on the verge of being fit again? - maybe send Olly home when his injury might also not be that serious? - to replace him with Charlie who hasn't played for a while..or Toby who will have less than 24 hours to prepare for a crucial game.
Not the best choices in the world - but I for one will back the one that's been made...and SUPPORT the team and England to hopefully win the game.
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hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Sorry, I'm Welsh.....
The word "flood" springs to mind - as in, he should have been in the squad and also, the points heading the Boks way.
Oh - and I won't mind eating humble pie if I'm proved wrong. Makes our selection problems seem blissfully simple in comparison.
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Well for one reason Paul, Vickery is banned. Else, I'd agree with you ;o)
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Paul in post #1 - Why not stick Vickery at Fullback...
What a ridiculous suggestion. Do you know nothing? Vickery is suspended.
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I think Farrell has to much class to be ignored, he might just surprise a lot of people, his power alone will be usefull and lets face it he has the temprament and the passing skills. Glad to see at last the two best props we have being picked as well.
Still a pretty poor side though, just how many players can get injured in a World Cup year?? Far to many first choices lost for anything to come of this competition.
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Bl**dy hell! you spend you're whole life waiting for England to be more adventurous in their selection policy and then, in the middle of a World Cup they suddenly pull out the biggest gamble of all!
Could be incredible or unbelieveably disastrous but I'm an eternal optimist so Farrell puts in man-of-the-match display, Habana spends the whole match chasing Sackey (in vain) and Ben Kay holds a fingertip catch to score the winning try!
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I hope the Farrell experiment works out. As an Irish supporter I have nothing but sympathy for the situation Brian Ashton has found himself in. We would be in very serious trouble if O'Gara gets knocked.
It is tribute to Englands strength in depth that they have potentially 4 or 5 out-halves of international quality. It is a pity that most of them are not in the RWC squad, but you are only allowed 30 players!!
It is unfortunate that these injuries have come up, and possibly a bit predictable, but if you took the best 2 number 10s out of any squad they will struggle. At least the future looks bright.
All genuine rugby fans know that a decent England performance at the world cup is good for northern hemisphere rugby. I cannot believe some of the negative comments being posted on these blogs.
England will surprise a few on Friday night, and I look forward to reading the boards next week!
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Farrell will be great! Forget game time and lack of experience this man is a born leader. Noone can question his kicking or passing ability and he's physically strong enough to take whatever they throw at. Running speed wont be an issue there either, as we see with Wilkinson - speed of thought is the key and we've seen that in abundance from Farrell over teh years. All the best Andy!
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I would have said ask Jerry Guscott, he's over there, on hand and is about the right age for the squad!
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Think this probably IS the only realistic choice.
Catt offers more at 12 than he would at 10.Tait is apparently unwell, is significantly inexperienced, doesn't remind me of a 10. Flood has played ?2 games and was good in one and moderate in the other - hardly an improvement to our starting line-up to fly the poor chap out there.
This plays more or less to Farrell's strengths of durability and distribution.
Perhaps Ashton et al have decided to cut their losses, minimise the damage for this game and focus on getting out of the Group which, currently, looks a tall enough challenge.
Still pretty desparate and ACTUALLY underlinies how weak we are for fly halves.
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Full credit to Farrell who presumably said to England management no problem I'm your man. Makes you wonder though whether Mike Catt did not fancy it.
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I think Catt would be a better option than Farrell. At least he has some experience in that position. Putting a newbie into the number 10 jersey for the toughest match of the RWC so far is crazy. Especically as said newbie is a 30 year old with limited Rugby union experience and none what so ever in that position. Farrells form overall for England is not great, Catt may also have patchy form of late, but he is a class act and usually very dependable.
At least we can expect more of a running game from England now, which would be good to see.
I feel very sorry for Johnny Wilkinson though, sad to see great players plagued by injury.
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Surely, Catt would be a better prospect with his experience. Unless of course Ashton is using this as an experiment as he thinks England couldnt beat S.A anyway and we have resigned ourselves to finishing runners-up. That is of course if we can beat Samoa?
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Good luck, I hope Andy plays well.
Bemoaning the selection from a limited number of players and saying how badly he will play isn't the best way to support our country.
He's not our first choice but he's a capable player and has alot of talent (as all of our players do). He'll step up to the challenge, he's an Englishman after all.
Good Luck to Andy Farrell and the rest of our boys playing what promises to be a difficult game. I will be wishing them all the best as I watch.
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Bottom line, England should be well beaten despite Paul Ackford's rallying cry in the Telegraph on the weekend. Even if Jonny or Olly were fit we don't have the players, the nous or the talent at the moment - so playing Farrell at fly half is fundamentally the only choice.
If however the odds are massively upset and England win then BA and his mediocre team they will all be seen as saviours and all will be red rosey...
My head and my heavy heart say SA by at least 20 points.
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Farrell was a quality League player, but he is a slow and distinctly average Union back. The faster Iestyn Harris was a knightmare at fky-half, why do we think Faz will be any different.
I predict at least two interceptions from him and two charge down clearance kicks.
Ashotn bemoans having enough "time" with the players. I'll bet loffreda would kill for the money and time Engkland have and look what he has done, taken a few amateurs and pros from around the world and made them number four in the world rankings. Loffreda for the lions anyone?
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What if they pull it off, should jonny aloud be back ?
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mmmm... sounds interesting!!!
I heard of farrell but didnt know much about him... well, if whats written in this article is true then it is a big gamble...
South African supporters are fuming over the 4 match ban for Burger, but I personally think that we have nothing to worry about considering the current mess the english find themselves in...
I will eat my hat if South Africa dont put 50 points past the English!!!
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Mike Catt?
Are you sure you want to take on 16 South Africans?
When England take on SA at cricket, there's also some concern about the number of South Africans on the field as well....
Don't worry about the big guns, Francois Steyn is going to do a Jannie De Beer to you again!
We want our trophy back!
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I agree with Richard. Cometh the hour cometh the man. Ashton didn't have the guts to admit England had little chance of retaining the title. The logical thing to do was take younger players who will form the foundation of England's team in 2011 and blood them. Building for the future was the only thing England were ever going to get out of this cup. So he's got to go with what he did take, which was experience and toughness and they don't come tougher than Farrell. I think you guys might have an outside chance of beating the Springboks after all!
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I agree with Darren. Physicaly we will stand up to the Boks and I reckon he has the skill and tempremant to do well as a play maker. Not to sure about him making any breaks but im confident with him in there.
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Ashton has an experienced player in Mike Catt who can, and has, played Fly half for England. He has one of the most talented players around in England today in Matthew Tait sitting on the bench. This is NOT the time or the competition to mess about. Get the best players on the park and in positions that they know!!
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If it wasn't so tragic, it'd be funny....
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Jason Robinson might have made a better emergency 10. But Farrell can tackle like a forward, and has shown that he can make the initial break. Ashton will want to keep it very, very tight and probably looked at the defensive requirements - there's no point in having a scintillating break maker if he blows hot and cold and couldn't tackle my grandmother. Ask the kiwis - they had Carlos Spencer for a while...
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Farrell has the skill set and a prescence in defence, but it's his reading and control of the game that I'm worried about.
Ironically at least the Boks won't be able to do any defence orientated video analysis on how he plays at 10!!!
Not sure we have anything to loose either as nobody seems to be given the team a chance of beating SA
Lets hope this is a piece of genius from Ashton
Good luck to Farrell & England
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At least we'll have a ten who can hit as hard as theirs. Butch James is a monster!!! Whether Farrell has the pace to actually get to the point where he can inflict such damage is a moot point!!!!!
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Farrell at 10?
This ranks up there with Sven's decision to take Theo Walcott to Portugal without ever having seen him play.
Thank goodness there hasn't been too much hype surrounding the defence of the world cup. Otherwise it would be a bit embarassing.....
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All the very best, Andy. I'm looking forward to this game so much, purely on this treat alone. We will at last see what he can do in RU, rather than being centre in a, on the whole, static team. If he can dictate play and make the decisions, this one game will cancel out all the other "so-so" performances thus far, when he wasn't really to blame any way.
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Alan George should note that glaciers move quite quickly these days
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So, Bryn
What exactly have you added to the debate by chronicling Faz's time in Union ?
This story has been covered many times over the last few weeks and I feel that everyone knows that
a) Faz only has 6 caps
b) has been injured at Sarries
c) used to play rugby league
I say " c'mon Faz ! " and give these rugby experts something different to write about !!
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DaveM - sit yourself down in front of your TV and watch your boys get thoroughly trounced by the Wallabies this weekend, then come back and post your feelings of joy.
On a more relevant note, I think it's a great move by Ashton. Not that it will neccessarily work, but why not try it? We've been all but written off for the game, got nothing to lose, so try it. He's got the passing and kicking game for it. He'll be something else in terms of physicality at 10, that no side will be used to either in attatck or defence. He's too slow for centre, so this could work. But give it a go, he's a big game player, see what happens. If he flops and England lose.... we're probably on a par with what would have happened anyway.
Time to pay back that 拢750,000 bill Faz.
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Unfortunately not much choice for Brian Ashton at this stage.
However, Andy Farrell has played many years at first receiver in rugby league. He is also an excellent goal kicker (without wanting to jinx him), strong tactician and accomplished handler of the ball. I wish him well.
I think the match has to be won by the forwards; if they are competitive and create a decent platform then England have a slim chance.
I find Guscott and Barnes are far too negative and don't recall them having many big games behind an inferior pack.
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Lets give the guy a chance.....most of you have written the team off anyway, but BA is the one that makes the decisions... lets get behind the lads...I remember the St G cross draped over the Sydney Opera house, where can we hang it in Paris?
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As a South African I am gutted by the Schalk Burger affiar as the entire Samoan team should then be cited.
Andy Farrell could cause problems for the Boks as he is an unknown to them in that position .
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I think everyone should give Farrell a break. He is a world class rugby player full stop!! Whether it be union or league. Lets get behind the bloke and not criticise him. IF things dont go well on Friday then fair enough. However, Brian Ashton picked him to play and as a player you play where you are picked!!!! Rugby league is allot quicker and more intense. Are we forgetting he was Captain of the Lions league side!! He has all the experience needed!! Right him off at your peril!! I dont think the Boks are!
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I note that the three biggest rent a quotes on the rugby circuit are against Andy Farrell. I'd be more inclined to listen to those who have watched him in the other code. He and Catt could be the trump card as we know the South Africans don't like the ball in behind them. Guscott, Barnes and Carling only want to fill column inches
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Its a great decision - you can have your playmaker at 12 and have a heavy tackler with good hands at 10.
Cheer up, we will probably beat SA and lose to Samoa when we relax because we think we are the DsBs
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Once again fans and the media act in a typically British manner towards our national team - forever heaping on doom and gloom and professing to "knowing better".
The current situation is far from ideal. The injuries to Wilkinson and Barkley are hugely unfortunate, and could not reasonably been predicted. Farrell would not be the number 3 pick at 10, but currently he is all we have. However, all should not be lost. While I am sure Farrell will not be a revelation at 10 and threaten Wilkinson, Barkley and co, he may though do a sound job. Defensively he is strong. He is a good distributor, his goal kicking should not let us down and he has Catt outside to provide assistance with kicking out of hand.
In adversity we should aim to prosper. Can we not take the few positives we have and get behind our boys and our world cup chances? Any other nation would look past the shortcomings before the game and remain optimistic.
Good luck to Andy Farrell and the guys, maybe he can be the change we're looking for in the short-term.
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lets face it,there are pleny of subtle differences between league & the real game & plenty of not so subtle differences.Either way I think it's laughable this guy even gets a game at this level let alone as the pivot in this instance...incredible really!
The boks will be laughing all the way & very much looking forward to englands slow ball giving Farrell a chance to shine....NOT! a whipping is on the cards IMO.
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I think Paul MAY have been joking with his Vickery at full back suggestion. As for the people saying Robinson or Tait should play 10 - what planet are you on? At least Farrell has a tactical kicking game and is used to being a distributor from playing first receiver in league. We will lose anyway, but this is the best selection available given the errors made in the initial swuad selection
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Well, I know I said something had to change but this is rediculous, why couldn't Ashton tried this against us Scots????
I feel sorry for Andy Farrell being thrown in at the deep end, Fly Half against the Boks, jeez is Robinson playing in the second row. South African under 10s team on Friday night is it?????
think OOOOPPS covers it
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I think this may be one of those occasions where injury forces a change that would have never happened and actually works.
It would have been a MAJOR decision to play Farrell there with no injury's even though it's got to be his most natural position on a Rugby Union pitch. His passing, defence, strength and decision making ability are perfect for the number 10. He simply doesn't have the speed to play centre.
My only question mark would be over his positional kicking, but I have a feeling he could take this game by the scruff off the neck and showcase his huge natural talent - please god!!!
Brave move...but we need some if we are to progress in this world cup.
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If he can play top class rugby league for ten years he can do this in his sleep. All he has to worry about is kicking goals and hoofing the ball into the crowd.
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It amazes me how quick the press and ex players are to paint a negative picture on the England setup and Farrell. Alright he might not have the experience at No10 but why not give him a chance to finally prove himself. It鈥檚 not as if Guscott, Carling & Co even think we have a chance against South Africa. And by the way the way aren鈥檛 these the same guys who bottled it in the 1991 World Cup Final.
The press and these guys need to stop hammering the negatives to get a few column inches and look at the possibility of what might be. Farrell is no Theo Walcott!
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Its a great decision - you can have your playmaker at 12 and have a heavy tackler with good hands at 10.
Cheer up, we will probably beat SA and lose to Samoa when relax because we think we are the DsBs
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For those of us with long memories, it's back to the bad old England of long ago - when every big game was preceeded by prayers to lady luck. Everything in the chilling last chapter of Woodward's book (about how it could all come undone) has indeed come to pass. The days of Elite English Rugby have already come and gone.
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can we wait until friday night to pass judgement?
If anyone can face up to this challenge, Faz is the guy. Let's not forget that he was a world class rugby league player.
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How typical of some to rush at the opportunity of criticising Farrell, when he deserves credit for stepping forward and taking responsibility. If anyone should face criticism it would be Ashton, but how about we give him the credit for showing faith in his squad, regardless of experience? No, thought not.
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Why dont all of you genuine rugby fans stop moaning and lets get behind the team. Faz is a big boy now and i am sure he will do his best and give 100%, If thats not enough then so be it. At least we tried. Reading some of the whinging comments make me embarrased to be called an Englishman. The only sensible comment was from the Irishman
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To say I was shocked, as many others were, to see Farrell at fly half was an under statement but it was mentioned after the game against the USA that Ashton should look at risking the normal forward dominated selection and go for something that would test the SA out wide. Well these injuries have certainly made the selection risky !
Farrell lacks experience at this position granted but do we think he doesn't ever look at the internet or read a paper.
I say good luck to him and the team that will support him, he is a good and proffesional player and for that I respect him, the other 14 players starting on Friday and also Aston for being bold and having faith.
Lets support them and not debate the finer details. If we were all that good at selection don't we think that Guscott and the other moaners might of been in line for the coaches job ?
Yes Flood should of been taken but he hasn't.
Support England, support Farrell and support Aston, in good times and bad.
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Farrell is the logical choice. Having played stand off in his early days at league and being a past GB League captain has the experience. He can tackle hard and has great skill with ball in hand......Catt is the only other option, but lacks the physical presence....its too late to draft in a any more replacements like Flood.
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Do you really think they would put him in number 10 if they didnt think he could do the job! yes England have to take a few gambles but it paid off for the footballers! allbeit forced desicions much like the RFU team,
at the end of the day we cant change anything other then finding the elixer of life and making jonny drink it! along with Olly,
we needed a 10 who can kick a few conversions (hopefully a requriment) and into touch, nothing drastic i believe Farrell can step up to the plate, this game can be one by doing the basics well and being strong, both of which England are more than capable of, so rather adding more pressure on the lads back here in the media how about we actually support a situation we cant change!
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鈥淔rom my point of view it is exciting, a challenge,鈥
That's what General Custer said.
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The idea that Farrel can just pull on the #10 shirt, dictate the game and kick enough goals to pull us through is based on hope not experience. And the fact that we, the defending Champions are relying on hope as early as the 2nd game makes a mockery of any idea of foresight/planning. I thought Ashton did a good job in identifying new propsects in the 6 Nations. For some reason he decided to leave most of them at home and we're now left with this predicament. We deserve better. I'll be watching, cheering England on but this is no way to run a defence of the World Cup.
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Faz is already a legend. He didnt have to do this. You have to admire the man who is prepared to put his entire rugby reputation on the line in this way. There is no way he is going to take a backwards step. Look at the eyebrows ... he even looks like Martin Johnson.
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The nagativity of idiots like Stuart Barnes has really annoyed me during the long build up to this world cup. The man is hyper critical, and one would think that he himself was some kind of world class genius player in his day. This was not the case. He, along with numerous other 'Union' ex-players, have been praying for Andy Farrell to fail ever since he swoped codes. It sickens me. Only in this country do we take such joy in seeing people fail. I would like to wish a big man a big slice of best of British luck, and put in a big performance, Andy!
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Never mind worrying about Andy Farrell (best of luck Faz), no one seems concerned about Corry, and now he is Captain. We are a rudderless ship lurching to the rocks.
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The Andy Farrell saga is reminiscent of Iestyn Harris' inclusion at OH for Wales against Argentina back in 2001. What a disaster that was for Wales and for Harris. Scarred for life, and went back to RL. Best of luck Andy
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It's not like he is going to see any ball anyway with our pack getting hammered for 80 minutes.
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I'll give you all three guesses which channel South Africa are going to attack.
1. Try to spread it wide and go up the wings?
2. Forward dominted drive up the middle of the park?
3. Nail Farrell/Catt every time and see what happens?
I think no.3 is going to be given a good test in the first half to see how the defensive gel holds up there. I feel sorry for Ashton to have to make the decision, I also feel sorry for Farrell, every SA will be out to get him.
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Andy Farrell distributing from 10 may very well open England to a much more attacking game. I only wish Matthew Tait was at 13 to take advantage of the huge range of running lines Farrell's tremendous passing would give him. If the back row runs off Farrell, and the backs are willing to have a go, he could provide a tremendous pivot point for England to step things up.
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Forgive me if this sounds strange, but I had one of my dreams last night, which involved Andy Farrell playing a blinder for England at fly-half, and England won the match 24-20. This was before he was selected of course. I also dreamt England beat Australia with a last minute drop goal the night before the 2003 world cup final!! I am now quietly confident, and England WILL deliver. Now let's get behind them.
PS Sheridan scores the first try after 14 minutes from 3 yards out.
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Well, as we were only ever likely to play 10 man rugby against the Boks, at least we have a big man at 10 who can play (in fact has played!) as a forward and mix it with the giants of the opposition scrum.
The only downside is in the goal-kicking department, as we may have to rely on penalties to keep the scoreboard ticking over.
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Ahh lads no need to worry I'm sure He'll pull it out of the bag and if he doesn't then no big deal England probably wont make it out of the group, no big surprise there then... Ha Ha
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I totally agree with Peter Manning , lets try supporting the coach and getting behind the team. Maybe some of the players are not to our choosing but let Brain do his job.We have the talent to pull it off and what the team needs is the nation behind them.
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To pick up on a few points...
Rob Andrew said today that because Mike Catt was originally picked to play outside Olly Barkley, Farrell is a "straight swap" for Barkley. But he indicated that it was pretty likely that when it comes to the game, they are likely to interchange at 10 and 12 according to the game situation. I expect to see Catt standing at first receiver quite a bit, and they still have right and left-footed kicking options. It also means the bulkier Farrell will be up against the ultra-physical Springboks fly-half Butch James in defensive situations.
They initialy thought Olly Barkley could be out for two or three weeks, in which case they would have called for a replacememt, but now believe his hip injury is not that serious he could be available for the Samoa game, as could Jonny Wilkinson.
Mathew Tait has recovered from a bout of food poisoning and will be on the bench, so they have a bit more cover at centre as well as the back three.
Peter Richards, the second scrum-half on the bench, has also played a fair bit at centre in his time.
In terms of goalkicking cover, Andy Gomarsall, who has kicked two conversions and a drop-goal for England, could be called upon from the bench if Farrell is crocked, and Mike Catt's back isn't up to it.
"Gomers" joked yesterday that when he was at Gloucester, their then director of rugby Philippe Saint-Andre reckoned fly-half was his best position! It could come to that...
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Seems to be Farrell bashing time from certain sectors.
He has played stand-off for Great Britain and that holds much more responsibility in attacking play than a fly-half.
The original problem with the squad selection really lies in selecting too many centres; Hipkiss is the one I would have ommitted in favour of Toby Flood.
The Royal Marines stated that England lacked basic leadership skills, save for a few voices. Leeds Rhinos stated that England spent very little time on basic skills.
Farrell is a quality kicker, he is no Jonny Wilkinson or Hazem El Masri, but he can be relied on to kick well.
I'd back him to do it against a lesser side, I hope he does it against a real contender for the trophy.
Coaches and players recognise his game intelligence. Will sections of the media and "fans" have to eat their words, I hope so.
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Don't think it likely that Catt wouldn't stand up and be counted if asked to play 10. Much more likely is that Ashton wanted to keep the core of Catt and Noon together in the mid field, presumably for defence as much as for attack options.
It may well be that 'Faz' may give more space outside than JW would if he is able to hold his line rather than spread across the park. Still, the goal kicking is a concern, maybe he'll do well, maybe he won't...
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Much as I'd like this to work, the whole England team are just too slow at every stage. Farrell is no exception, and putting him in at 10 isn't going to be a revelation. The Farrell groupies have been pushing for this, of course, but they need to stop remembering Farrell as he was years ago and see what he is now, and that's just not good enough for international rugby. Ashton is to blame, though, for picking a squad with an average age of about 140. A few younger, faster players might have turned this around.
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With the injuries and the lack of any sort of momentum the only way England would stand a chance in this game is to pull off the ultimate gamble !!!
This has to be that gamble.... A man who has played 21 club games and 5 international games being asked for the first time to play in the most pivotal role in the team !!!!!!!!!!!!
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This kind of reminds me of school..."Who wants a go at stand-off?". BA is rather like an old PE teacher too, albeit a homeless/vagrant one.
It's either a brilliantly fiendish ploy, to throw the Boks into turmoil; or the most desperate plan since...well, I can't think of any on that scale at the moment. Not sure I will even be able to watch! Obviously hope Farrell comes good - but on the evidence of his union career so far, Im a little sceptical, as he's been largely anonymous in the games I've seen.
Perhaps more of a concern will be what happens outside him - Farrell may link and kick well on the day, but midfield creativity has been lacking a bit recently. And this all assumes that we are going to win our lineouts, stay steady in the scrums and win some turnover ball, and then give the backs the pill going forward. Perhaps if Farrell fires, then he will inspire the others too. He's a big unit, so let's hope at the very least he inflicts some (legitimate) pain. Things can only get better!
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Can't see the problem and like the logic behind the decision. Farrell can slot in at 12 on defence, thereby shoring up the midfield and Catt's clearance kicking from 10 is as good as anyone's. In attacking positions Farrell reverts to 10 and we have more options with the ball in hand - Farrell's distribution and Catt's support play are their respective strengths. I would like to think that Ashton will be hailed as a genius when it works, but he doesn't have any other options.... necessity is the mother of invention.
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hmm seems to me that england team selectors whether its football or rugby or ... only ever stumble upon
a winning combination by chance.
just maybe this is it.
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I think it's a good move. He's excellent as a leader and defender and good as a distributor and kicker. I think he will have a good game and will probably highlight the lack of pace, dynamism and guile in the outside backs as they will get more of ball than usual. And still get the blame if we lose. Come on Faz, show 'em what you can do. (I still think we'll lose by the way, I reckon SA may win the comp).
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At the highest level of any sport - and thats what SA - v - England in the RWC is - the slightest weakness is exposed. Its beyond belief that England should expect a player, no matter how talented, to play in a position which is completely new to him. This won't have a happy ending.
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Can we please stop saying "we have nothing to lose". That argument is simply naive! For the next couple of weeks, we still have a little thing called The Webb-Ellis Trophy in a cabinet at Twickers. It's unlikely we'll retain it, but that's still what we playing for, just like in 2003. So please stop suggesting that poor selection is ok simply because expectations are (rightly) low.
That being said, Faz probably is the best option under these particularly dire circumstances.
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All the time and effort the RFU,premiership academies, top schools and endlessly dull coaching driven by the rfu coaching book has put in to deliver automaton players is now showing the system up for what its worth.
Basically England can field what I would call 2 second XVs with the better of these two teams being driven by a quality rugby league player and an aging South African. What a shame and to think we are world champions..........we definetly are, in the art of how to squander the rich talent of youth.
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This is a very brave & bold move by the England unit. Having said that though, I back it 100%, believing that Farrell, is if nothing else; a big game player.
Considering all the GB rugby league games against NZ and Aus, the super league grand finals and challenge cup finals he's been part of, this could well be the opportunity that the bloke needs in RU and to have a level of input into a game that England greatly require at the moment. Nobody else seems to be taking the 'bull by the horns', so why not give the big lad a go to impart his knowledge and inemitable skill into what is going to be a brutal, physical encounter.
Come on the England.
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Those of you thinking England will be playing a running game now are probably mistaken.
The only reason to pick Farrell at flyhalf with Catt at inside centre is because you expect to play a very tight game and use Farrell almost as an auxiliary backrow forward due to his power. Farrell may carry the ball alot, but I bet it is more likely to be Corry, Easter, Rees and Shaw on the end of the passes than Catt or Noon.
Defensively, I think you will see Catt taking a lot of the ball off Perry and offensively it will be Farrell.
Running rugby orchestrated by the flyhalf needs at least one centre with real pace and we don't have one in the team. Aside from this, have any of you seen an England backline capable of either using collective guile to unlock a defence or attacking at pace recently? I have not. Farrell is probably supposed to capitalise on Burger's absence and it might be a smart thing to do.
Farrell may or may not be creative in union, we will see, but it will need the players around Farrell to act more like rugby league players to really make it work - come from deep, very straight and at pace to get on the end of the popped pass. I think this still points at the forwards taking the ball on because otherwise, Farrell would have to crab across Catt.
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It makes the decision not to take a recognized 3rd FH seem a bit silly now!!!
Geraghty was crying for selection, if nothing else to get some experience in the squad during a world cup and if the worst came to the worst, as it has, he could be called upon. During th esix nations his running during broken play was excellent and he has the pace that the rest of our FH's eem to lack.
Also flood in my opinion should have been in the squad on merit...although t does mean that i get to watch him on Sunday against Sale.
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My first instinct was that this was a crazy decision, however in retrospect what have we got to loose - SA will not know what to expect (though i suspect AF will probably be 1 dimentional), they will absolutely focus on him, which could open up opportunities elsewhere - if BA can deliver some creativity, you never know. Our pack is big and ugly, and will probably be able to stand toe to toe for 60 or 70 minutes - if we kick our goals and keep the scoreboard moving, who knows.
I think it is an unfortunate time to have to take this gamble, however unknown quantities tend to blur the opposition - remember the impact Chris Oti had in his first couple of tests.
Good luck to AF and Eng - my head still says we will struggle, but maybe, just maybe.....
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I am going to the game on Friday. Can somebody tell Brian Ashton that I have got the Dubin out and will be bringing my kit just in case.
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I was thinking this morning that Catt would be a risk at 10, never in my wildest nightmares did I think BA would go with Farrell. I truly hope my fears are wrong, and he proves what a great Union player he can be in this game.
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To be fair to you everyone expects you to get wooped anyway so what harm can it do if you lose by a lot its as expected if you keep it close or even win then the media will be saying how amazing a choice it was, inspired even. So sit back enjoy the rugby and dont take losing too bad it happens to us all.
Saying that as a welshman i wont be shedding any tears if you do get slammed.
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AF was regarded within rugby league as one of the most outstanding big match players and inspiring leaders the game had ever seen. I am not blind to the fact that it is a totally new game to him and therfore some of the plaudits he achieved in league no longer hold such weight. Nonetheless, AF has clearly demonstrated to both his collegues and the coaching staff that he has more than enough spine to take on the daunting challenge of the Boks back-row and he should be applauded for this. He strikes me as a winner. He has that same simple approach to media hyperbole and 'outside' opinion than was so evident in Martin Johnson.
He may or may not prove to be the answer either on Friday or further down the road. However, in a one-off game where we are overwhelming underdogs and the only chance of a result lies in an unprecedented team performance, I'd suggest that the more men of AF's temprament and stature that we can get on the pitch the better.
You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do.
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Why all the bleating about who should and should not be in. Ashton has picked what in his opinion is the best team and that's what he is paid for. Farrell will do the job well at outside half, the injured boys will both be missed from that position. Good luck to the team and at least come away with some pride intact.
What the hell, I'm lucky I have my tickets and will be there to see what I hope will be a match to remember win or lose.
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It makes me chuckle...Farrell began, and (pretty much) ended his RL career as a prop - and is now the key play maker of the England RU team?
Two things to say...
Farrell went to prop late on in his RL career after an injury crisis at Wigan. He genuinely stepped up to the plate and silenced many of the people (inclduing me) who had knocked his commitment and leadership for GB. He demonstrated his commitment time and time again carrying what was a pretty poor Wigan pack.
Second - Farrell played stand-off (which seems to be the term many are using in RU now?) for GB without ever being anything special. He now takes on the role in RU. its a sad reflection on both codes that there is such a dearth of creative talent to play either game!
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Oh dear what a shambles has it really come to this Farrell at Outside Half , a position that he has yet to play in Rugby Union, The Springboks Back Row must be licking their lips in anticipation, Surely Catt has to play at Outside Half as there are no other available options, the England Management and the RFU should hang their heads in shame , and this has all come about due to the flawed selections in the Squad.
At this Rate Rob Andrew will be on the Bench,
A 20 Point Defeat at least.
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There's been a lot of rubbish written about Andy Farrell, much of it from people who should know better, reinforced by a myopic view of what he's done on the pitch when playing for England. The objective facts support the view that he is able consistently to play others into space because he is a better distributor than nearly every other player in the team and he is excellent defensively. Had he made the move to Union sooner, I am certain that he would have developed into a fantastic back-row forward, from where he could have inflicted the maximum amount of damage. The move came too late and he hasn't had the time needed to equip himself properly for the positions best suited to his abilities. I think that circumstance has placed him in the position which is the next best alternative and, depending on the type of game we try to play against South Africa, he will come through with shining colours because he is such a good foootballer. Rather than making snide comments about him from the safe distance afforded by the Internet, people should get behind him and give him the encouragement he both needs and deserves. If people want to behave like mental pygmies, they should turn over and watch the overpaid prima donnas at Wembley.
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Comparisons with Walcott are laughable (that would be more appropriate if Ashton was to call up Geraghty). More appropriate would be the hypothetical of a great player from on position being asked to fill in in another - say Steven Gerrard being asked to play centre-back or up front in extremis (e.g. Euro 2008 QF with other players injured/suspended). It's not ideal, but given the alternatives probably worth a try.
Who would you have sent home to call up Flood or Hodgson? Either you write off one of Barkley or Wilkinson, which would be a bit premature, or you create a weakness in another area of the team - either the pack or outside backs.
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Look luck Faz! While I'm sure the Boks will target him he will also cause them concern - the unknown big RL star. I hope Faz has the nerve (and Ashton's approval) to play his own game and not be over cautious under so much public scrutiny. People talk about Bok's 10 James being physical. He ain't that hard, that's why he has to tackle dirty; I reckon Faz may intimidate him.
Whatever happens Faz won't defend or kick any worse than Charlie Choker 鈥 our 3rd or 4th fly-half option.
So long as we don't fall behind too much too early I reckon confidence will return to the team and we'll have a chance.
C'mon England!
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Main question I have is why the two scrum halfs on the bench????? surely one is enough?? allowing us either a fifth forward reserve, or an additional outside back??? Any ideas???
Fingers crossed for Friday, I can see 10 and 12 swapping places depending on various factors through the game. Charge downs could be a worry.
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Did anyone really believe that England would actually beat South Africa ?
Because I didn't. Its a game we are likely to lose so put Farrell in at fly-half, kick every penalty we get, let him put grubbers kicks into the in goal area for Robinson to chase. Who knows South Africa may not be able to cope with it.
But lets not go overboard on blaming 1 man if the team lose. Its the old story in this country the press build 'em up high so it hurts more when they knock 'em down.
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I Don't think Farrel the big deal He's a Rugby League Legend and even if we had Johnny Wilkinson and the whole shabang The Boks would still beat England their just plain better.
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This is the best position for Faz. The one he used to play in RL when not playing loose forward.
He's big, can tackle, offload & has good passing skills.
You can run around Faz, but i've never seen anyone run through him.
Apart from back row in a world class side, this is his best position in an average side. It was the same with Wigan & GB.
What other forward in RU, can also play in the backs. Says a lot doesn't it?
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The predicament that England find themselves in at the moment is entirely of the making of the powers that run the game. When we reached the top in 2003, there was an unprecedented opportunity to build on that success. However, we don't know what we want, other than to bask in glory. Do we want the best league competition in the world, or do we want the best international team? The root cause of the current problems lies a lot deeper than whether Andy Farrelll can make it at 10 on Friday evening. England's football team has been plugging away for 41 years since they last won anything; is rugby going the same way? I hope Faz makes a decent show of it, but there are bigger things that worry me.
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With the opposite no. 10 being brutish in style perhaps counteracting this with a similar figure might work for you.
Catt and Farrell I think will make a fluid partnership swapping roles when required and run the attack and in defence, both are great.
Perhaps this won't be the last time we see this partnership.
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Played against Farrell when he was playing league - hope the Boks don't find it as easy to get past him as I did then....and that was when he was 10 years younger!!
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Farrell will destory them!
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If English fans stopped believing Jonny is God they might realise this is a blessing in disguise. In the last 12 months Jonny has not had a good game for England. Good goal kicker yes, good defensively yes, but going forward and getting his backline running he has been worse than useless.
Farrell will be at least as good defensively. He was a quality goal kicker in league and will be far better going forward than Jonny has ever been.
England will still lose, but it won't be down to Farrell.
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Let's just accept that Farrell may well be being picked in his best position. Clearly it's a crying shame that he's never been tried there but he has an astute tactical brain, is defensively solid, kicks like a donkey, has a great pass and is unflappable. The fact that he's not quick isn't as big a problem as it is at 12 so this might work well.
The real problem is that he should never have been brought over from League - he'd have been happier if he's stayed there and he wouldn't have walked into a situation where there are too many Union specialists in all of his viable positions to make a good run of it in the international arena.
Nevertheless, COME ON ENGLAND - start playing some rugby!
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Look, at the end of the day it doesn't matter who plays 10, it is more about the speed and quality of ball we get - and let's face it, thus far it is been terrible (including the 2 French games). Unless that improves we could have Dan Carter and still get beaten!
If anything we need to worry about the back row - no Moody and the speed of ball Perry can deliver.
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Isn't Rob Andrew technically part of the squad? Maybe he coud play...
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Well, with or without Barkley, Wilkinson or Farrell, England were odds-on to lose against the Boks based on their performances over the last four years coupled with the current form of South Africa. It is a gamble, but the only real alternative would be to play Catt there, and as already has been said, Farrell is far better equipped to take on the physical challenge of the Boks back-row, so let's just wish Andy the best of luck (rather you than me, mate!)
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To be honest I am not sure Flood would be the answer. He is good but nothing special, Shane Gerharty on the other hand has a real spark and should at least of made the pre cut final squad, however he may be the one for the future.
Anyway to some sembleance of a point. It doesn't really matter whether he plays Farrell or Catt at 10 they will interchange all match. What worries me more is where is the speed?!
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I have low expectations of this squad as I think we are lacking in World Class quality at the moment, but it's important that the commitment and the effort is there. I don't think I can stomach another abject display like the one against the USA. It was like watching the football team (something got mixed up last week). Good luck to Andy Farrell. If that's who we've got then that's who I'll support. I think he has the potential. Whether he delivers this time around though we'll have to see. I hope so. Verdicts should be delivered after the game though, not before.
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Farrell at 10.
We have no other option.
At least we become unpredictable to the opposition (even at the cost to ourselves). The game was already lost with the usual set up.
I have faith in the "Man" for the biggy, all we need now is 14 others to stand up and be counted for our finest hour (80 mins really).
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I think everyone's forgetting that gamble we made with Henry Paul - he was meant to be the centre to revolutionise England and didn't do too badly for Gloucester either. But he flumped on the International stage. Now take Farrell - who hasn't made impact on national or international stage, suddenly stepping into the shoes of the most important position in the England team (given the squad we've chosen to play the type of game that Ashton wants)
GRRR
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I think England have been really unlucky with the injuries but can see Farrell and Catt switching quite a lot depending on where they are on the pitch and who's got the ball. I'm a big fan to Flood, but Farrell has much stronger defence and that's a big reason why he's in the squad in the first place. In the end, it adds a little bit more to the game which promises to be a corker. You've got to beat everyone to win it.
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Make him captain as well!!
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All interesting points, it's good to see many positive comments about Farrell. He's a big occasion player, lets face it you don't get the man of steal award if your not.
As to the comment by RAF, I used to be an athlete even beat the then Olympic champion once, but you know what, I knew that when I beat him it didn't mean anything, the guy was having a bad day, you ever get the man of steal award, Internationl player of the year as well as being G.B Captain? It's not about one-off performances it's about consistent quality.
As too if he'll bring it off I really hope he will, I'm just concerned that so many people seem to want him to fail, which I find the most dissapointing.
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It's great to see so many people getting behind Andy Farrell for this game. After the 6 nations campaign, he was lambasted by the likes of Will Carling and Jeremy Guscott.They jumped on what they viewed as his lack of experience, his pace and understanding of the game. Basically he was root of all England's problems.This was clearly not the case. I was at Croker when England got hammered by Ireland: It was the boot of O'Gara and the paucity of England's forwards that led to defeat that day.
As a League fan who has witnessed Faz change the course of many a game through his sheer guts and determination. I believe that he will prove his critics wrong and will do as he has done for many years in League; perform on the big stage.
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Since the Autumn Internationals I have not gone out of my way to watch England play (at) rugby. If I had other things to do they have come first like going shopping with my wife or daughter...
The latest debacle of no experienced No 10 (JW injury not predictable ha ha!)and has anyone at Twickenham looked at the standard of kicking in League?
To coin a phrase Rugby is coming home - early!
I had hoped some consistency and clarity of direction would come when Brian Ashton took over. But it is still completely lacking: perhaps we should work with the Under 21s for the next World Cup and forget this bunch.
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Regardless of the team chosen, right or wrong, we should be behind the the managment and team for their sake and not snipe.
SA was going to be a tough game and perhaps a certain loss. So why worry about that. We must however beat the others for a chance to progress. These games will very physical and casualty prone.
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Farrell at 10.
We have no other option.
At least we become unpredictable to the opposition (even at the cost to ourselves). The game was already lost with the usual set up.
I have faith in the "Man" for the biggy, all we need now is 14 others to stand up and be counted for our finest hour (80 mins really).
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It really is such a shame that England is so divided and that so much anti-Farrell comment arises out of his status as a former rugby league player.
Instead, people should respect the fact that this takes enormous bravery. The once world's best rugby league player risks his reputation, stands up to the mark, and takes on what seems an impossible task. Now that is true bravery.
When did Barnes or Guscott show such strength?
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To reply to Chris, Gusgott had the chance to face Farrell on the field, and walked away from it. IIRC he called the cross code game a "pointless exercise". I always thought he was scared of getting smashed by his opposite number. (Farrell)
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Everyone's talking about Farrell and how South Africa are going to destroy him (I back his selection by the way)
But what about Habana??!?!?
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Against some of the biggest hitters in the world, and from previous performances, some of the nastiest Bds in the world, it must be a good thing to have a veritable gaint in the shape of farrell running the back line.
If it was Catt, I would not only fear for the game but for his long term mobility.
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I whole heartly agree with Chis's comments, it seems that most people are very negitive about Farrell, if you look on the positive side of it, is that South Africa would have not put such a change would be made and they are as in the dark about Farrell at stand-off as we are!
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Union fans and players do seem to have a lot of ignorance towards rugby league.
Don't forget that many of Englands coaching staff when they last won the World Cup where former Rugby League players. Plus the most exciting English Union player during recent memory is former rugby league player Jason Robinson.
The only major worry with this 'experiment' is Farrells age.
League is a much tougher, faster, game than Union and Farrell was a classy player.
He had the ability to create space and could both pass and kick accurately. He set up Jason Robinson for many of his Wigan tries and dictated many League matches sometimes even winning them on his own.
If he can create space and bring in other players during a fast rugby league game he can more than do it during a Union game.
As long as his fitness holds out as well as his knees Farrell will be fine.
As he was basically played as a (BIG) fly half during his time at Wigan.
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good choice by brian ashton. farrels might not have the most precise boot but he has got some power. I think he will perform well. making big tackles on ten and showing some attacking skills as well.
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OK. There might be other options, but it looks like Farrell's at Fly Half whether we like it or not. The thing England need to do now is to control the game with our forwards, which we have a good chance of doing. Put the pressure on the Boks pack (yes, I know they're blumin' huge!) to make them commit mistakes and give away penalties. Then get Farrell to kick them. Just look at his record in League. Doesn't matter that League is a different game. Same ball, same posts. He knows what he needs to do. Lets get behind the team instead of picking out the bad points and criticising as usual.Good luck Faz!
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Presume Butch James will have to stand on a box if wants 'straight arm' faz ?
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It's not as if Farrell is being placed at 10 like Jonny would be, he and Catt will interchange constantly and well, having watched him in League, he is a leader and can kick, so lets be positive!
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This is the funniest thing I have heard all year. I still can't believe it is true.
Oh and if league is such a fast game, what the hell was this carthorse doing playing it?
England will not win another game at this World Cup.
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This is the funniest thing I have heard all year. I still can't believe it is true.
Oh and if league is such a fast game, what the hell was this carthorse doing playing it?
England will not win another game at this World Cup.
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What a gamble!! Hope he pulls out a once in a lifetime performance! Then again he cost us union guys 750K for 5 games so far? So bout time he delivers. We needed to build forward & not look for last minute miracles, but alas we have wasted the last 4 years.
For all his skills & performances Jonny, should not have been there as the 1st choice fly half with the amount of rugby he has played in the last 4 years. So miracles it is then.
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I don't care whether he is a great player or not, surely you can't just 'slot in' when you've got little or no experience at this (or any) level. Positioning, for instance, is instinctive if you play in a certain position. You also get a good working relationship with those that play around you (think 9 and 12, and whether or not Andy is gonna know, at all times, where the hell they are). I can't think for a minute that this is going to work simply because, no matter how good you are, you need time to get these things right. Four days aint enough, and I'm sure the Boks will sleep well tonight.
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I think Andy Farrell is good but i dont think he will be up for the challenge against a team like SA however he might just run straight through James because of his size
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Barkley made a comment that he thought that the communication was poor during the game against the USA. Was it because there were too many voices or noone clearly in charge?
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i personally think the england coaching is crap!! with a fully fit team the the back line should be as follows.. wilko at fly half olly at 12 hipkiss at 13 lewsey at 14 catt at 15 and robo at 11!!
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The big difference between league and union is the space in which players get to move. Faz was used to not getting closed down so he was able to create those opportunities and send out his long passes to the three quarters.
I hope it goes well for him on Friday, he has a good chance to prove what he can do.
If England lose i feel he will get a lot of critics which will be unfair on him but thats the press for you.
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it seems most of the green wellie barber jacket brigade love to get stuck into farrell! is it right or wrong to play farrell at 10? i don't know, what i do know is that englands demise doesn't revolve around farrell playing 10, 12, 6 or carrying the H2O.It goes back to the boys of 2003 basking for so long in the glow of victory, going to the opening of an evelope.they should have either retired or got their heads down like true champions. Like maybe someone of the characture of FARRELL would have done!!!
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The first thing that comes to mind is blitz defence. I think SA won't allow Andy Farrell any time to play. A bit like Argentina did to Iestyn Harris in 2001. I do agree with other comments that Mike Catt will interchange and take on a lot of the FH duties.
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I cannot believe people are doubting over wether farrel has enough 'bottle' to play at 10 againt SA. The man captained great britain at 21! Give the guy a break. He was one of the most outstanding stand offs in league and people doubt wether he can play at number 10. It's his nataural position. The closest position to 12 in RL is the second row somwhere Farrel doesn't exactly have much experience.
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am i the only person that can see the problem of farrell playing way to slow in attack against a very fast rush defence.
intercept try habanana from the boks '22 due to farrell giving a telegraphed slow miss pass from 10 to the outside centre.
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wat is going on boys, the england team were shocking at the weekend.
now farrell at fly half. he should not be played at one of the most important positions in the game.
he can pass well but his kicking is mediocre at best. he is slow and should have nothing to do with the back line. have they not seen how well catt has been playing, if he is injured we have plenty of other quality players who can fill the gap and farrell is not one of them, this is ridiculous and a fiasco. the england selectors should have a hard think especially as will be proven against the pace of south africa that farrell is not good enough.
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am i the only person that can see the problem of farrell playing way to slow in attack against a very fast rush defence.
intercept try habanana from the boks '22 due to farrell giving a telegraphed slow miss pass from 10 to the outside centre.
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wat is going on boys, the england team were shocking at the weekend.
now farrell at fly half. he should not be played at one of the most important positions in the game.
he can pass well but his kicking is mediocre at best. he is slow and should have nothing to do with the back line. have they not seen how well catt has been playing, if he is injured we have plenty of other quality players who can fill the gap and farrell is not one of them, this is ridiculous and a fiasco. the england selectors should have a hard think especially as will be proven against the pace of south africa that farrell is not good enough.
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Sam is wrong
Englands best back line is 9,R horne
10 McGuire, 11 Robinson 12 Martin Gleeson, 13 yeaman, gardner, 15 wellens.
alas all bar Robinson is playing Super League.
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For a start our good Mr Palmer (may I call you Bryn?) seems to have written Faz off already. I expect most of the press will too blame him if we lose, which I unfortunately think we will, irrespective of where (or if) Faz plays.
Faz has a great kicking game and as has been said, has exceptional ball skills. He is the most skilled ball player in the England back line.
In response to Matthew B (or post number 142 for those more numerically minded), stand off isn't Farrell's natural position. He started at second row at Wigan and played most of his career at loose forward. In fact, in my opinion his worst position at Wigan was stand off. A point that is bound to please the doubters (and my good friend Bryn).
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I'm a Rugby League fan but hope England beat SA on Friday. Farrell may not be the best RU centre, flanker or fly-half but there's no way that the likes of Jerry Guscott, and Stu Barnes would have made it as RL players especially at the wrong side of 30. In fact Jerry Guscott declined to play against Wigan when he was at Bath in 1996 for the cross-code challenge. So, give the lad a break and come on England.
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I for one am excited at the prospect of Farrell at Fly half on Friday - its a huge gamble, but he has all the attributes to make it a success. Speed is much less important at fly half than at centre, and that has been the main criticism of him, even though he is still adjusting to the game.
If you were a SA player, who would you least like to see playing at fly half at this stage? I know if I was James, I wouldnt be looking forward to mixing it up with Farrell. Lets be realistic about how England must play this game, they need to smash the Boks onto the back foot and get some momentum going.
Catt or Tait at fly half would just get destroyed and flustered - they are playing opposite one of the dirtiest players in the game!!
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hope faz has a stormer, and shuts you all up. some of the comments on here are just stupid, he's a big game player and will step up to the plate. if not, he wouldn't have put his hand up for the job, not like anyone else seems to have wanted it. that, or the coach thinks that faz is the most skillfull back available.
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hope faz has a stormer, and shuts you all up. some of the comments on here are just stupid, he's a big game player and will step up to the plate. if not, he wouldn't have put his hand up for the job, not like anyone else seems to have wanted it. that, or the coach thinks that faz is the most skillfull back available.
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what are they up to. Why oh why, oh why are we not playing Catt at 10. I wouldn't even have 1 dimensional Farrell in the team. It must be good to be northern like the coahcing and management. What a waste. We obviously didn't want to win. Farrell nice bloke, employee him as the off pitch entertainment, but not a union player. Please......
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I'm a rugby league fan but follow any sport including union and its good to see so many people supporting Farrell. I support St Helens and trust me that fella can play. He has more skill in his little toe than most oher union fly halfs (prob Wilkinson excluded).
He's big (was a forward in league), can kick (out of hand and from the ground) can tackle, which he'll need playing in the thick of it and can pass and be creative.
Guscott and co only criticise him coz they could have never made it in league at Farrells age so its good to c all the true union fans backing the lad - C'mon England!!
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What we have to do is except what is in front of us, probably the second favourites for this competition.
They also have their problems, Burger and Jean de Villiers are gone from a very well balanced side, these are very important and influencial personal within the SA make-up of big hitting and line breaking members.
Farrell will be there to stand up, and be counted, like all of the England 22 to a man. It will be tough but, we will prevail.
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Farrell often played stand off for Wigan in league and was more often than not the creative fulcrum of the side. Add in that he has a goal kicking percentage up around 90% and he'll do a damn site better job than Mike Catt would.
I wonder sometimes about rugby fans in this country. The likes of Wilkinson are worshiped because he can kick goals. Who cares that we have a fly half with no pace and no creativity huh. Dan Carter runs rings around him, yet people think the sun shines out of him. It's Beckham all over again.
The naysayers have already done their best to ruin Hodgson's career, now they've moved onto Farrell. Give the guy a break. If you want to pick on anyone, pick on the back row who get turned over in every match and ensure that the ball is recycled at glacial speeds.
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Guys - dont know what all the debate is about - you are going to get totally tonked on friday night by the boks. If I were England I would forget about this one and focus on the must win games against samoa and tonga - neither of which are foregone conclusions.....
From an equally worried Irishman...
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Hmmmm.... I've read through a fair bit of the blog and the same comments / themes keep repeating themselves.
Yeah..it's a helluva gamble to put Farrell in, but why not? It's possibly the most interesting selection I've seen in a while. Chargedowns are the biggest risk but he should have more opportunity to off-load both inside to forwards and out to backs in true RL style which might just work for us.
I actually think this puts as much or more pressure on the forwards and scrum half as, without reasonable ball, it's a big ask to expect Farrell to do well. He's probably still going to get blamed one way or the other!
It's made it a game, that was destined to have a predictable result more interesting and I think Faz will not disgrace himself. Frankly, I'm more bothered by the Sackey / Habana square-off. Sorry Paul ..I wish you well but I think you're toast!!!
Barnesy should butt-out and learn to support a bit more. He annoys me as a pundit and as a commentator. What is it with media companies? Will Greenwood has the presentation skills of Marvin the Paranoid Android, Guscott and Carling pontificate about forwards performances (yeah ..like they know right?) - come back Mickey Skinner and Brian Moore!!!
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Good luck Faz. The Boks know nothing of you at 10 (neither do we, but hey?!) - and will at least be slightly concerned. They are professional and will not write off any England side sent out against them.
I truly believe a solid start in the game, a couple of good kicks, bit of confidence - and who knows what a Faz-inspired England could do???
Write off ANY team at this RWC at your peril - as we have already seen...
(Let's face it - with almost full-strength sides, the whole of the northern hemisphere have so far been pretty average, if that!!!)
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Blimey - there's some real old Nigel Double-Barrelled duffers on this today! If u don't know what ur talking about, don't talk about it. What many seem to know that to get the best outta Farrell u have to make him the playmaker. He's been made to look ordinary by Wilko shipping him flat, slow passes as he crabs across the field. It's about time England had some quick, crisp short and long passing from OH together with wonderful offloading out of the tackle - shame our back row and IC are so slow!
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BTW, Carling t1t, Barnes t1t, Gusset the t1t's t1t.
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Fly half is probably Farrell's best position. With his distribution skills and size he can create some space in midfield. Pity England don't have Hipkiss at outside centre instead of the limited Noon. For those worried about the challenge the Springboks pose, Farrell always performed in the past against the greatest rugby side in either code, the Kangaroos.
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I've seen some daft decisions, but this just about takes the biscuit!
Just what has Farrell contributed to England in the handful of games he has played.? Absolutely nothing! To put him in at No.10 in the most important game England have played in the last 4 years beggars belief!(and I'm an Irishman)
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this is where the devide comes back between league and union, Faz is an awesome player, leader and talker.
All union has done is run him down, mainly due to his backround. We are lucky in Wales lots of league and union players have swapped codes and successfully both ways.
just get off the guys back, Any nation would love a Andy Farrel in their side. Instaed of the deadwwod England have there now!!!
paul
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I'm confident Farrell will perform at 10, and I can see him and Catt sharing kicking and distibution duties.
The real issue for this game is the performance of our backrow, and with Corrytitis involved, looks like we've already lost the game.
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Farrell is the only possible choice from the available players, so adverse comments are pointless. To say that it is too big an ask for him is undoubtedly true, and equally undoubtedly unhelpful in any way. The things I would have preferred Ashton to have done would have been:
1) recognise Wilkinson was not playing well and when he became injured with a sprain have replaced him immediately
2) understand that Catt has not galvanised, directed or improved our back play in any way and that he is far more likely to give a scoring pass to Brian Habana than Noon, Lewsey or Robinson
3) accept that Worsley had an indifferent game against the USA, like most of the pack, but see that his aggression in the tackle is essential to Friday's match.
With the exception of Catt and easter, I think the team is as it must be. I just hope we can keep the score down.
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I can not believe some of the ignorant biased comments on here about Andy Farrell, I bet he put his hand up when Catt hid in a corner and volunteered to put his reputation on the line by playing 10, he is a leader of men and will give his best which might be better than Ollie who hardly inspired a great performance v USA and injury prone Jonny Wilkinson, Faz will take the blame for sure if England fail to fire and much garbage will be spouted by Messrs Barnes & Guscott who are rugby racists but Faz is an Englishman intelligent and capable player and will inspire those around him, if they follow his lead we might see a good performance but for sure Farrell will not hide and the Boks will know he is out there, hopefully the rest will not be anonymous.
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Been reading this blog with interest and good to see it's produced a healthy debate with some positives and negatives about the selection (and some blatantly unhelpful and pointless comments).
Regardless of what has happened to English rugby since the glory days of 2003, Ashton has had to pick his selection this week with the players he's got. And for the team we're playing. If the next game was against Tonga or Samoa then I can see the merits of using Catt at fly-half instead. But, as some have already said, I would rather have Farrell standing opposite Butch James than Catt.
Remember, this selection is hopefully only for one game so there also doesn't seem much point splitting the Catt and Noon partnership and give them more time playing together. Picking Farrell at fly-half has caused less disruption in the rest of the backline.
Faz has an awesome rugby league reputation and I for one hope he brings a 'Man of Steel' performance to the game on Friday night.
Somebody also questioned why there are 2 scrum-halves on the bench - I believe it'll be because Gomarsall can also place kick should anything happen to Faz.
Good luck Faz and England.
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Give the lad a chance... He hasn't even kicked a ball yet. Of course I'd prefer JW or OB but Farrell has some courage to say yes, especially in such a huge game.
Let's all get behind the boys.Seems to me like the English like being vendors of doom. I know they can play better, and I hope they do.
Good luck Andy I say.
As for Barnes, how many caps did he actually get at number 10? I'm guessing a handful.
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I cannot believe we seriously expect to contend at this stage of the tournament, therefore the policy of not risking injured players makes sense - we need them for the Samoa match!
As for Farrell's usefulness - I think this shows the sort of gameplan England will play - little kicking from fly half, a royal rumble up front with a lot of ball off the shoulder from Farrell and when it is to go wide, Catt will move to first receiver.
Broken play in the backline will be more dangerous for England, with Habana around. The plan looks like damage limitation where possible, with a plan based on possession and grinding out a challenge. Not sure it is the way any of us want to see England play, however with the mess Ashton inherited and the injury issues, it's probably the best we can hope for (I still cannot believe anyone believed Andy Robinson had a clue, let alone would be a worthy visionary for England). C'mon England, make us proud with a gritty and honest performance.
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Well Farrel at 10 - why not
this guy has got bags of talent, and well its not his chioice either - he's been picked at 10 by the coach and has no doubt stood up to the mark and said 'I'll give it a go'. Lets face it, who else have we got, Catt perhaps, but I think the combination of Farrell and Catt, 10 & 12, could be a real threat. Catt has already proven his game reading at 12, and has helped out Mr Wilko and Berkley on more than one occasion from that position.
This could be a real test for the backs and its time to stand up to the mark and go for it. Personally I cant wait to see it, Good luck guys, go for it, and ignore the rest of those negative busy bodies.
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Quite funny this! Farrell spent the last 2 years playing Rugby League playing prop forward, he`s now a first choice centre and now he`s entrusted with the `fly-half` role for England in a World Cup. Says alot about the state of the game in the country?
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What's wrong with swapping positions around? The All Blacks are doing it. (Fortunately it's only against Portugal and we'll still probably get a cricket score),especially when the captain, Jerry 'Enforcer' Collins said they're not going to go easy on anyone in this world cup.
Go the All Blacks!
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There is no chance for the Poms against the Boks unless the fern flowers
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It doesn't matter this whole WC is a charade anyway. It's just a set up for New Zealand to win it no matter what. They will get to the semis only playing one other top 8 side - if England get there they will have to play 3 top 10 ranked sides and 2 of the top 3. You just can't compare. Plus New Zealand got the group they wanted, the kick off times they wanted, the refs they wanted. I'm surprised it's not being played in NZ as well. Why not just walk over to the NZ team and give them the trophy now - and save all the bother!
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I reckon it's great, what have we got to lose? They've beaten us the last few times with our first choice 10, so it's more than likely they could have beaten us with Johnny or Olly! The injuries have forced BA to do something different, and I reckon it's pretty exciting. You never know what Farrel might bring to this game 鈥 Christ, if Heskey can transform the football team, why can't Andy Farrel do a job here?
Cumon!!
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Farrell will teach all you doubters a lesson. His choice and timing of passes is ALWAYS perfect! He will also lead, motivate, kick well, tackle .....and laugh at you doubters when we win. And I hope you feel guilty and stupid and keep your mouths shut in future.
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First off, I should probably state up front that I'm Welsh, and prior to Farrel being picked at Outside Half, would have supported any team playing against the English, with exception to possibly New Zealand. So you get kind of bias I have. And having said, I really, really hope Farrell proves himself at 10 as I was always a fan of his in his Wigan days.
I think what the naysayers are ignoring is the type of game that this is going to be. The way the English backs have been playing, I can't see them creating very much behind the set-pieces and so England's game plan is very much going to be about tactical kicking and repetitive forward-moves. It's boring, but it can be effective. The strikes against Farrel playing at 10 are perfectly legitimate, but they're not really that relevant: the fact that he's slower and more cumbersome would only really matter if you were playing towards releasing your backs quickly. What you will get with him is passing that will more often than not break the gain-line, an extra flanker in the loose and a decent tactical kicking game.
If you guys are going to compete, it's going to be through your forwards and through trying to out-muscle the 'Boks. I don't think you'll lose by more than 20, but I think it's unlikely you'll be competitive unless your forwards raise their game from the USA match.
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Its a blessing, every tourney England enter expectations are always high..no matter what we are playing like.
In this case, most comments are that we really suck, have no invention etc...but as with the Football..it can all turn around and splat back in their faces !!
The team is not doing so well at the moment, but it only takes a bit of luck or sparkle to turn the whole thing around.
I believe that Faz will do the job and may even suprise the Boks with some hard magic....our boys can pull this off, then onward and upwards.
Our team are rock hard, maybe its time for brute force to win over flair.
Good luck to the guys...
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Mr Holland, us doubters may well be eating humble pie come friday night - it will be worth it and never will it have tasted better, but we will not be feeling guilty and stupid. Don't throw your toys out of the pram because you don't agree with other people's opinions, rather, enjoy the debate - it is all meant in good fun, hopefully, and entered into by people who all desire the same outcome - a decent England performance with a win at he end of it.
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Yeah Mark, you're right 鈥 I reckon a bit of brute force and ignornace may do the trick. If nothing else I'd love to see Andy smash Montgomery as he tries to skip through the middle. He may be a great fullback, but he has girl's hair!!
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I have always been a great admirer of Andy Farrell and I have a lot of faith in his skills and abilities. Of course this is a gamble but I am really looking forward to see him play in this game and I believe that he will be a credit to both himself and the team.
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Let's face it, only those who know RL know that Andy Farrell can do it. He is the best playmaker we have and that is/ was his role in league. He reminds me of Harry Pinner a great RL loose forward.
We may not win, but I for one will give 100% support.
Nuff said
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Good luck to Faz - not his call.
This though says a lot about the english "mentality" toward their style of rugby in comparison to say the Welsh.
It's a bit like sticking Scott Gibbs (albeit without a kicking game) at 10. Can you imagine the Kiwis playing say Frank Bunce at 10? No chance. Faz has had 10 bells knocked out of him for the last 18 years and was past his prime when he signed. The only players who have (and will) make it from league are big, strong athletic runners who play out wide (with the exception of Jason Robinson who is unique for his footwork).
When it comes to a war of attrition (as England always seem to wish to play with their one dimensial crash bang style) I'm afraid the Boks will chew England up and spit them out out like a wilderbeast savaging a deer calf on the high veldt.
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Good selection. Farrell is a strong player, good passer, good kicker, sees the game well, a little bit too slow to make a great centre, but this is a good pick.
England have the players to win any game and how you played yesterday is absolutely no guide to how you will play today. Its a game of 20 men against 20 men and the English players are all fine athletes with great rugby skills or they would not even have featured. Good luck England from a Scot
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Maybe I have been watching a different Farrell play to some of the other comments on this web page, if only I'd known last year what I know when I purchased my tickets for this game. Still I expect the Rugy Village is worth a visit
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Mr Stevens - Post 184
The wildebeest is a herbivore, therefore unlikely to savage anything other than grass. And it wouldn't find any deer in South Afrca anywyay.
As for the Farrell gamble - I don't see that Engand had many other options - so let's get behind them! Come on England!!
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One thing that shocks me, ITV have commented on how unlucky England are to have two 10's out at once...were it not for one of them being JW, I could go along with that.
The unfortunate truth is that it would have been more of a surprise if JW had got through the tournament without a problem.
I'm also amazed Barkley was not wrapped in cotton wool all week, given the situation.
However, I think this 10 debate has distracted from the fact that England have many problems elsewhere in the team.
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reading some of the comments I wonder if many of you even know what Rugby is?
Andy himself has said that when Olly got injured he and Mike Catt instantly started to work on how best to cope - ie one of them would likely be 10 the other 12..which if you know anything about Rugby and know how BA coaches is a 'mix and match' postion anyway.
As for Guscott.. before the squad was announced he was saying Dallaglio should not be picked - when he was and suddenly had a couple of reasonable games - not only should he be at the WC but he should of been made Captain as well...
Incidentally Martin Corry as Captain is more risky than Andy Farrel - who wants a bet on how long it takes for Corry to end up in a punch up?
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Awesome....
The team picked itself and may enable England to execute the perfect game plan.
Ashton was never going to be playing a wide expansive game against the boks because he would be playing into their hands. To beat the Boks we need to beat them up front and stalve thier ball to their backs - Vickery is not a loss to our front row. Stevens is more mobile, with better hands and vision and can scrummage with the best. The fact that he is South African born makes this a massive game for him. Burger on the other hand is a big loss for them.
Andy Farrell:
Faz in defence - Faz is reported to be our best dfensive tactitian and he will surely execute this best from Fly half, he will not be bullied by Butch James or any forwards that run in his chanell - he is consistently towards the top of the tackling stats.
Faz in attack - he played his amazingly successful rugby league career as a first receiver, he's not a runner with ball in hand because he lacks pace and likes to take the ball standing still, however he is a great distributer and offloader of the ball in the tackle. Backed up by the experience of Catt in his ear Farrell would be my man at 10 to execute our game plan.
I can not wait for this game to start and i am backing England to register a famous memorable win.
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Well as a Scotsman, I think the selection is hilarious. I think that SA will just embarress the English team and selectors.
However it has just occured to me that Farrell is not such a bad pick as I think he has played more international rugby since the last world cup than Wilkinson has so why not!!!
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Obviously this is not how Ashton would have wanted things to go.It is not perfect at all. We England fans are hopeful but even the staunchest Farrell fans are not completely sure what to expect. However it must be noted that South Africa have been thrown a bit of a googly here too. How do they plan for Farrell, when England themselves aren't entirely sure? It's so 'crazy' it might just work!
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Boys, calm down! It will be alright on the night!
I know that England haven't performed fantastically well under Ashton, but he's a wily old fox and he took the England job with this being his last shot at the big one!
We'll see Catt and Farrell swopping in and out depending on whether we're going backwards or forwards and don't be surprised to see it work!
Let's focus on the opposition for a moment....The Boks are an agressive side who stay on the front foot, but they are now going to be without one of the top three players in world rugby in Schalk Burger! De Villiers is a big miss for them too!
We can win this, I really believe it and there's no better time for this group of players to deliver!
Come on England....go bash a Bok!
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I feel 20 years younger following England at the moment- not because of the joi de vivre in their play , rather the lack of a consistent game plan which then results in wholesale changes on the next team sheet... just like it was for England in the hugely successful 70s and 80s! Farrel and Catt won't worry too much whether they are in for the next game.They can give it a go knowing they have no England future beyond this competition and have the opportunity to enhance their legends by giving it one last blast. Both have the temperament , ability and brains to blow SA apart . Cometh the hour!
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i am with beefy (#155) -= the boks will miss de villiers and burger far more than we will miss barkley!!. only benefit to them is that at least Burger won't be spending his usual 10 mins in the bin (the tackle he got cited for was only "average" for him!) and surely even a NH ref would ping him for the number of times his hands are on the ball on a ruck!!)
people seem to have forgotten that our third string XV in fact led their full strength boks team at half time in the 2nd test this summer (unsurprisingly the boks obvious choice of playing at altitude in Pretoria went against them in the second half) but i am struggling to understand the number of irrational and totally negative comments on here from so called english "supporters" (you know the taffs and the oirish will always take the proverbial)
get behind the team - farrell will spend more time in no 12 position anyway so what's the problem??!!!
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BA should give Farrell the captaincy for Friday also. He's at his best when he is in charge and calling all the shots.
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Sorry to say that Farrell will be eaten alive by the Springboks!....
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Come the hour, come the man. Big guy, takes a hit, not made of glass, dishes out big defensive hits, good distribution and not afraid to put his body on the line.
C'mon England - Get behind your team!
Enough of the nay-saying.
Faz, best of luck!
A Scot
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I hope England can perform on Friday. The challenge facing Faz is huge, but cometh the hour Cometh the man! Brave call by BA, but faint heart never won a football match. Lets get behind the team, and sing them over the try line. Come On England
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I have a strange sense of calm as I think this English team is a maverick's delight. A product of circumstance and not design, it may just be a tonic which ignites a superb performance. The Boks will also rise to the challenge but will carry such a weight of expectation that it may induce some of their players to make silly mistakes (who remembers Neil Back's attempted drop goal in 2003 in the pool game against SA which hit the corner post!) If the scrum is competitive and the English can hold their own in the set pieces, then we could have a fascinating game. We need that platform. If we get it than BA's selection gamble could easily work out well. We may not win the game but it might ignite a campaign that would be a credit to the current title holders. The team that makes the least mistakes will win it. Let us see who handles the pressure better.
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Lets be serious chaps, Farrell has class and experience at the highest level. The problem is English expectations being foolishly high (as ever) given the pool of players available. When will we learn that England is not a natural sporting nation and never has been. If we are going to be honest this lot would struggle to finish bottom of the 6 nations. Roll on 2011
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I find it quite amusing that Andy Farrell played at prop for Wigan in his last few games of rugby league and now rugby union pick him as a stand off. That says alot more about rugby union's shallowness than anything else I know.
For a good game of rugby I suggest you tune into Sky Sports1 on Friday and watch Wigan v Saints. That game will contain more passion,speed and theatre than anything England and South Africa will produce.
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If you actually just look at this objectively and forget the circumstances, Farrell has good composure, good strength, excellent distribution and a decent kicking game. That's what you'd want from a FH in a crunch game.
Ok so he has got very poor pace and is not likely to jink across the gain line like Barkley but that's not how we're going to beat them.
We'll beat them by getting the basics right, going through the phases, starving them of ball and playing territory. If we're level after 30 mins then SA will start to get nervous and agitated.
I actually think SA will win but I don't think it will be as bad as everyone is predicting.
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This is one Bok fan who isn't writing off England's chances. In fact I don't know too many saffas who think it will be anything other than a really tough game. Contrary to the tiresome stereoptypes, we do respect our opponents, especially world champions. England (Farrell included) will be a tough nut to crack and there'll be plenty of nerves on the day. May the best team win.
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Farrell on the crash drags in the Boks back row and centres. If we can recycle and get quick ball for Perry to feed Catt we can then take it wide. Quick ball is the issue.
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I think everyone is putting far too much pressure on Andy Farrell yes its a huge game and a massive responsibility but hes a true professional and knows what has to be done.
If the England pack play like they did against the USA it won't matter who we have at fly half.
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I agree with Steev. Faz likely to throw interception passes and have kicks charged down. Peter in Preston: nice idea but one-dimensional and that is not the role of a number 10.
If I were the SA coach I'd be telling my team to force Faz into those errors. That and making sure Catt has no time on the ball to rescue the situation too.
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Let's not forget that you don't always pick the best players if you want to form the best team for a specific job. When you've got injuries in the squad , it forces you to reconsider all your 'sacred cows' and think about the immediate task ahead.
Andy Farrell was a great, great player in League and may well surprise all you one-eyed Union doubters by being just the right man for this particular game.
Time will tell...
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"That鈥檚 certainly one word for it, Andy."
hmmm..... how patronising!!
I wonder if Faz ties his boot laces properly, surely Union does that differently, something which can only be properly achieved after a life-time in the sport??
I get the feeling Farrell's onto a no-win situation whatever he does. If England win, it will be the forwards who won the battle, if they lose it'll be because Farrell wasn't up to it. Either way the pundits will not allow him any plaudits, only the burden of failure.
The union fraternity is scrutinising his every move in every game just trying to identify any possible twinkle of an opportunity they can to pull him up on something he is seemingly incapable of.
Can he kick goals? does he have the vision? oooh his defence is in doubt, he's got too many studs, his socks aren't pulled up properly. Willing him to fail just to prove how advanced and difficult to play this game of union is. Or perhaps how stunted and regimented is the way that England play it? Freedom of thought and spontaneity are seemingly frowned upon from what I have read here.
And obviously Farrell can't cope with the occasion, playing in front of 60,000 spectators, against one of the world's best teams, something which just doesn't happen in Rugby League. This will be a first for him? Well, er, no not really.
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I have to admit that I am quite excited about watching the match now that AF has been picked at 10. If you look back at his league career, he was a reliable big match player. Besides, he has finally been given the nod at his natural position. I think he will provide the backs with a solid platform and will be inspirational in defence. It's just a shame that BA doesn't move Noon to 12 and give Tait the space at 13. Would have liked to have see Lewsey take on Habana, but I think Sackey will keep him at bay. I think we will come out of this game worse-off, but I wish the lads all the best!
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I know it is not ideal having FAZ at 10 but lets remember that this is a game we were expected to lose regardless.
Give FAZ a go. There really is nothing to lose!
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I am sitting on the fence on this one. Last week I would have ranted about Farrell taking up arguably the most pivotal position on the pitch as he is old, crocked, slow...oh and has no idea at number 10.
However I saw England football management pick Emile Heskey and win 3-0....so as far as I am concerned any bl**dy thing could happen now.
Case in point Zimbabwe beat Aussies in cricket....so I am throwing the form book out the window and will be sitting watching with my fingers crossed.....
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COME ON ENGLAND!!!!!!
Lets face it guys - knowing how the team approached the World Cup, the odds are against England like the a China Shop up against a herd of Bulls. Big ones, in green & yellow.
Last week I was there at Lens, and even though the game was somewhat lack luster I still screamed my head off in support [and managed to refrain from jipping Taity as he went past our section whilst warming up].
Despite everything that's happened I'll still be down the pub on Friday screaming my head off and fully supporting AF!!! We must support our country. Come on lads!!!! Hey, it could be worse... Robbo could still be in charge!!
Oh, and in reference to Flood vs. Farrel - a young boy of little Int. exp. vs. a guy who, although has little RU action under is belt, is an absolute beast!!!
I think a lot of you commenting here don't follow both codes.... if you did, you would KNOW he's got it in him!!!!!
COME ON ANDY!!!! COME ON ENGLAND!!!!!!!
BOO, HISS, SPRINGBOKS!!!!!
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Catt simply cannot be put at fly half, you have to remember the opposition numbers. SA No. 10 Butch James likes a tackle and would probably like a run if catt was there Farrel on the other hand inexperienced yes but used to tackling and being tackled but hard men (remember thats what they do all day in league lol).
Anyway the way England play the Fly Half and inside centre switch all the time so will not affect us too much in that sense.
Also regarding not bringing another 10, lets think about it Charlie can be brilliant for Sale and when not under pressure but is known for being a choker, Flood and Gerity (or however its spelt) young and just as inexperienced, yes exciting for the future but they are not quite ready for the physicality. Farrel big game experience, good boot, cool head, yes he may lack union experience but he has got it were it counts, being able to handle pressure and that more than anything is what is needed, being able to handle the pressure not how many games you have played. Look at Charlie for all the games he has played he still chokes when the pressure is turned on (think of how many games we would have won over the last few years if he had kicked his kicks?).
Yes a gamble but not as mad as it first looks may well be a be a blessing in disguise. Believe me I was a shocked as anyone at first but then I sat and thought about it could be a very clever move we may well get the best of him and if not we have the perfect scapegoat lined up ;) lol
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I have read through most of this blog - and it has been excruciating at times. I have already pitched in to add that Farrell and Catt at 10/12 pivot is as good as Ashton could have conjured from defensive and attacking perspectives. Their respective strengths are complementary, but we will need to kick goals to win this one...... Our try count is as dire as any international team currently and the Springboks defence is second to none. No-one has commented on this huge deficiency; we will lose on Friday, not because we have been taken apart, but because Montgomery kicks goals and we are going in to the biggest game since November 2003 without a goal-kicker. No need to debate; Ashton has no option and Farrell as first choice kicker will suffer. I know his record for GB at league is reasonable, but the difference between the two codes in this one area is vast - Union demands that position is turned in to points and penalties are taken from greater range. This is not so in League, where territory is all important (and the tariff on penalties is one less) as defensive teams need to return the ball, so more attacking penalties are run.
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Look at it this way, so far (and all through the 6 nations) England have had nothing in the backs. Ashton has taken a pack that he thinks can match South Africa and a back line that can defend. Ok Farrell is not the kicker that Jonny is, but he will definitely handle himself better than Mike Catt or Olly Barkley. Give him a chance to run the back-line, nobody else has managed to make them look threatening. I saw him against Scotland in the 6 nations and thought he was the best player - he knows how to time a pass.
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Some of the ignorance in these posts amazes me!
1) If BA was going to call up another FH (Flood/ Gerrity/ Hodgkinson) then he would have to send someone else home. The feeling seems to be that JW and OB's injuries are temporary and that they will be fit for the latter stages of the RWC (should we get there), so he doesn't want to send either of them home.
2) That being the case absolutely the only options were to pick the team he has done or to pick Catt at 10 and AF at 12. Would you all have been whinging so much about that? They'll swap around a lot anyway, as has been said, so it pretty much amounts to the same thing.
3) AF is not the quickest, but when did JW last make a line-break?
4) Whether AF was playing prop at the end of his RL career or not is irrelevent: its not as though its like playing prop in union.
To echo some of the more sensible posts, I think we will probably lose, but not by 50 points, and rugby being the wonderful game that it is there is always a chance of an upset.
Come on the lads!
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Farrell at ten will give england some much needed direction. Anyone who saw the game against wales would have seen that Farrell is expert at doing the simple things extremely well under pressure. This includes passing / kicking at the right time and knowing who give the ball to and when. Rugby isn't about a team of stars and Farrell has always been about the team performance his whole career. Don't expect anything flashy, but perhaps expect to see the fluidity of the england performance improve. Something the likes of Guscott fail to appreciate.
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Im with Steev on this one. 2 interceptions and chargedowns is a fair prediction.
I do however understand that one of the best England Students fly halfs to turn down pro contracts is back in the country from OZ for a month or so.
So come on Brian pick up the phone to Dave Gardner and get this show back on the road. p.s. he could do with a new shirt too as his old England ones got nicked off the washing line!
but realistically with Dave not in the side and Andy Farrell and Catt sharing the role we may get an open game with England scoring a try or 2 but being outscored maybe two to one.
Theyll need some nouse to get through or round the Samoans too!
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We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender
COME ON ENGLAND
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Well, I'm gonna be there, supporting England and whatever the outcome it'll be a great day. I personally think we've got a chance. Has anyone seen Faz play at 10? No. So let's not already decide that he can't do it. I also think that as a nation, for some reason, we have to have one person to concentrate on. "Johnny won us the world cup" type rubbish. The team has got 15 world class players, who on their day and if lady luck is shining, could beat any side. This is true for most of the sides out there - as proved so far by the results of the so called elite versus the so called minor nations. So let鈥檚 stop worrying and start supporting. SWING LOW!
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What about the mighty Balshaw to play 10? He's got the complete game and has plenty of world-class experience having been on the international scene since 2001 and toured with the Lions...
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lets be honest if Faz had a kicking competition against that little boy Wilkinson, Faz would undoubtably win. No Doubt one of the best League players ever. All you have to do is look at how poor Wigan have been since he left to see how influential he is on the pitch.
He can kick for sure and has no problem ordering folk about. You loy in Union don't know how lucky you are to have this national treasure in your code. We'd have him back at wigan tomorrow.
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Interesting decision, I think the game will be a lot closer than alot of my fellow South Africans think. Whenever we are expected to do well we fail to perform. The loosies besides , Corry who IMO is to slow for a loose fwd will be a handfull for the SA back 3 fwds.
We got out thought and outplayed by a much smaller Irish loose trio last year and expect it to happen again. I think Faz is going to get Butch yellow carded with his physical approach.
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If this is a failure, then I deride the decision not to bring Toby Flood and declare Ashton a buffon of the highest order. Jeremy Guscott for England Coach.
If this is a success, then Ashton is clearly a Yoda-like higher mind who could coach the contents of Yates on a Friday night into a unit of untold Rugby prowess.
Can I have a column in the Times now??
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think about this way. Farrell at FH is akin to playing a forward with exceptional backline skills. The SA backs will be a tad anxious about seeing Farrell and not Wilkinson, who hardly lights up the field these days (has he recently broken down a defence line with his so called silky skills? - i dont think so but still he gets all the plaudits for all the wrong reasons). Farrell will draw the boks into him releasing players either side to exploit the resulting space. we need the backs ready to pounce on farrell's grubber kicks..make those Bok backs turn to their own line, confuse them with dummy runners as per League and they'll soon start panicking. Up and unders! Force mistakes on them. Come on Farrell you've been doing this since you were 16!!
I reckon his confidence has been undermined by the gutter columnists like cleary and his sidekicks. This working class, northern upstart with a strong regional accent. so uncoup and so not rugger. they want wilko with white teeth and posh voice -
thank god for the All Blacks were skill and power takes precedent over your school blazer and parents occupation
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To reply to Will and his comments about the relevancy or otherwise of Farrell's positional status at Wigan. Prop in RL or 'first receiver,' is extemely hard and not very pretty. The point is Will, Farrell is Knackered after years of playing the Hardest Game in World Sport. However he still gets a go in RU at stand off, the pivotal position in the team. Not bad for an ex RL forward no wonder you union buffs are pulling hair and gnashing teeth.
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Hang on! Suddenly Catt is at 10 and Farrell at 12? Good one, England. Nice commitment to an idea. Just what you need - back and forth, maybe him, maybe the other guy. So much for bottle. And adventure. Pick someone and stick with it. We all know you're going to lose. At least make it a brave defeat.
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I think BA is playing mind games - look at the official team and Farrel is still listed at 10 - we all know England play the switching game quite a bit - so really shouldn't be surprised.
Whoever is at 10 - will probably end up on the wing or in rucks anyway like most games...it is 15 man rugby after all! ;O)
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"Jeremy Guscott for England Coach."
Thanks for the laugh - the bloke was the pinnacle of "girly backs" - always ready to pose for the camera's whilst players like Carling did the real hard work -
The only player to still have a white kit at the end of a mud bath game....my 80 year old grandmother would be a better coach than 'Guscott'....BA is doing ok and is a much better manager than AR and he can certainly handle the press and idiots like Guscott...
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What on earth is going on!!!!? I reckon Ashton has completely bottled it and gone for a "safer" option with Catt at 10! Gutted! I was really looking forward to seeing Faz have a go at his natural position....or is this all a load of old.......mind games?
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England's up against it. Farrell is an unknown quantity at RU 10, but known to be stolid, reliable, good in defense, big, strong, skilled in tactical kicking, experienced with pressure and leadership, level-headed, and tough. AND no opponent knows what to expect from him at 10. I'm now disappointed that Catt will be there, who, after 13 years in the arena, is well-known and somewhat predictable. Give us Farrell.
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I regret wasting my time posting on here again but a lot of people on here are unbelievably ignorant.
Apparently Farrell has no kicking game. It's generally the stand-offs duty to do the kicking in open play not the inside centre. Hense, no kicking. Don't forget though the great kick in the second warm-up game, by Faz, which forced a France line-out on their 5. That was within the first 5 mins and was spoilt by the fact that the forwards couldn't add up and had too many in the lineout. Oh, and good old Barnesy neglected to comment on the kick.
In response to Tommy (post 172), faz played 1/2 a season at prop because Wigan had too many injuries.
Anyway, a meaningless post now as it looks as though Catt may play 10 anyway.
And who cares? Wigan are playing Stains which will be a much better game!!
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i thinks it time that farrell showed us what he is made of hopefully there a suprise in store
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What a car crash of a game.
Will need to watch from behind my hands, but I can't think of anything more wonderfully ridiculous on a rugby field...besides Miss E. Roe's heaving chest of course (hell, I was six). It will be ugly tomorrow. But there will not be any less shouting because of that.
There's nothing like supporting England when we think we're facing a thrashing. It's a part of the national psyche.
Andy will do alright.
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It's about time all the press,pundits and some RU fans laid off AF and give the bloke some respect.AF has already passed his ultimate test by playing against the Australian RL national team.They are the best Rugby team on the planet,AF has been playing Top Class rugby all his life since he was 16.The reason some people say he has done nothing in RU is because he hardly touches the ball compared to the time he had it in RL.The ball is either tied up in the forwards,in touch or being kicked.RU has copied alot of ideas off RL and then belittled the sport,it's insulting to RL fans and it's definatley not AF ultimate test.He has nothing to prove at this level,he's already passed that years ago.
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ian macko speaks a lot of sense. Many people were criticising Ashton for placing Farrell at 10 as they said he would have no idea what he's doing, and are now saying that Ashton has bottled it by not playing him there as he would have been an unknown quantity and could spring a surprise or 2.
Either way, if England lose against SA, expect Farrell to be the scapegoat. If they win, expect him not to get a mention in the media.
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I spent virtually all of my 20 year rugby career fluctuating between fly-half and centre. Truth is if you have a brain, can catch kick and pass and have some confidence in your own ability, you can play in either position. Suggestion: non-rugby playing pundits (including all forwards) stop making a mountain out of an ant's droppings. Instead they should talk about what Vickery gets up to in the dark spaces if that's what he does in open play.
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I am SA but think England will win. SA is overrated, look where they finished in Tri-Nations, stone last again. They were lucky to beat Aus in SA as Aus did not have the self belief to beat them at home.
England must play the basics right and minimise mistakes.
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I am staggered about all of the fuss about the Catt/Farrell partnership. The partnership England should be concerned about is at half back. Catt and Farrell are two very experienced players and they will be able to make it up as they go along. That is not the case for half back pairings. Why has Ireland stuck with Stringer when he has so many shortcomings? An understanding with your scrumhalf is of infinitely more importance than the relationship with your No 12. And where Andy Farrell surely has the experience to deal with this situation Shaun Perry certainly does not.
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If anyone who read this board and listen to all the negatives, we all would not bother with the world cup at all!
I am a big Union fan, but I do enjoy rugby league. Some peole on here are unfairly giving AF a hard time beacuse "He has not proved what he is capable of...." UTTER RUBBISH!
He was captian of Wigan Warriors when they were THE beset team in rugby League in the world, and that is coming from a St Helens Fan. He was Captian of Great Britian and won the "man of steel" award. In his first full season for saracens, they finish in the Guiness Premiership Playoffs for the first time, beating my team London Wasps into 5th in the league. I feel that is not just co-incedence.
What a team gets from Andy Farrell is somebody who can Tackle, Organise players, carry out the basics of rugby under extreme pressure, has a good pass, can kick well and offload the ball in tackles. I cannot recall a time when either Farrell himself or any management team has told us that he can score five tries a game and run the 100m in 10.5 minutes. He is not that type of player. Do not expect that from him.
He has just been a scapegoat for every bad England performance since he came to the Union code. I for one am happy he is here and I know that any Rugby league side in the world would love him back. He will NOT let us down tonight
Why don't we just get behind the England team for once? Its seams some people here want us to lose. I know that this post will upset some people, but I don't care! I am just going to enjoy SUPPORTing my team tonight, and not getting on there back because everyone else seams to be. I ask you to do the same.
Just as a note, a lot of SA fans here have not written england off in this game. Why should you?
COME ON ENGLAND!!!!
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Have I missed something? Surely the really big game is Samoa isn't it? Why is this seen as the massive game - so it's a difference of Wales or Oz in the QFs but is there a huge difference in getting knocked out in the Qfs and Sfs? And it's not completely out the question that Wales beat Oz tomorrow - oh alright it is. Best tactic for tonigt would be to avoid injuries/suspensions and regroup for the Samoa game with hopefully a fit fly half. Beat them and then let's see what happens.
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Time to face facts:
1. Brian Ashton (& his management team) picked a squad of 30 based on what they believe would give England the best chance of retaining the cup.
Andy Farrell did not pick the squad.
2. Brian Ashton (& his management team) have picked the best 15 available from the 30 to face SA. Andy Farrell does not pick the team.
3. Andy Farrell is unproven at 10 but has the strength of character to front up against SA.
4. There is still a route to the knock out stages IF we beat Tonga & Samoa.
5. No matter who plays at 10 / 12 if the pack cannot get parity with the SA pack in the set pieces / loose then we are always going to struggle.
I cannot wait and I bet that after 80 minutes you can be assured that Faz will have given everything for the jersey - will the rest of the team be able to say that ?
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I'm not English so am not that bothered, but surely the biggest issue with the Catt v Farrell question is why is Farrell even in the squad?
I've not seen all of his Guinness appearances but the ones I have and his English appearances, he's done nothing. A big lump, quick fair enough but he doesn't have tactics or the running lines required.
Why does the English RFU think you can bring a League player to Union and put him straight into the top 15. I believe you could go the other way, but Union is tactically far more complicated and there's a lot more broken play where this really shows. You can't teach someone what has taken most internationals 10 years to learn in a season or two
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Dear Matt, Union is called the Kick and clap game for good reason. Very few on the pitch know what to do except kick when in possession. AF is a big lump but he does possess a rugby brain but he doesn't need it for union because the referees do all the thinking(that's why it is so complicated and consequently boring) and by the way he is not fast his knees are gone after years of playing real rugby.
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There appears to misconception here. It's just as difficult to go Union to League as it is from League to Union. The difference is that Union converts to League were given several seasons to acclimatise before they got anywhere near the national team. It's true Faz is the wrong side of thirty, has little pace (He ended his league career playing prop) and has dodgy knees. But his biggest problem will be his lack of experience playing rugby union. He has potential and I hope he does well.
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