91热爆

听

27th March 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 97

Presented by Emma Tracey

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听

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, Bradley Riches.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Hello.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 You are on later in the show talking about being in the Celebrity Big Brother house and being autistic in a house full of cameras.

BRADLEY-听听听听 [Laughs]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yes. But the other bit of the show is about a dating app that claims to be entirely neurodiverse-friendly. And I just wondered, you鈥檙e an autistic man, a young, very young man, and also gay, and they do do same sex dating on this app, I just wondered whether you would use something like that.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Well, I鈥檓 obviously in a relationship right now.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Ah.

BRADLEY-听听听听 But beforehand I鈥檝e never really used dating apps, mainly because of being misunderstood I think, because they kind of scare me. But as it鈥檚 a neurodivergent-friendly app then if I was single then I鈥檇 definitely think about it, definitely, yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 The apps you steered clear of were they too overwhelming?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Not too overwhelming but I feel like I always get scared of people not accepting me and feeling misunderstood. I feel like those apps people can judge you without even knowing you, and it kind of scares me. So, I鈥檝e always shied away from apps, no matter what [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, that鈥檚 it. What we usually do is say together on with the show. So, are you ready [both] On with the show! Now I鈥檓 going to gossip with you about your boyfriend.

BRADLEY-听听听听 [Laughs]

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听 Theme music.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, and welcome to Access All, the 91热爆鈥檚 weekly disability and mental health podcast. I鈥檓 Emma Tracey, coming at you from London. And you鈥檝e just heard his lovely voice there, I鈥檓 going to be speaking in a moment to the absolutely brilliant Bradley Riches, straight out of the Celebrity Big Brother house. And later we鈥檙e going to be talking about an app which, unlike society, is fully set up for people who are neurodivergent.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 You can contact us on email accessall@bbc.co.uk. And please do subscribe to us on 91热爆 Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Being locked up in a house with 11 total strangers has to be really, really hard, but even more so if you鈥檙e autistic, like my next guest who鈥檚 been holed up with people like Sharon Osbourne and Louis Walsh for the last three weeks in Celebrity Big Brother. It鈥檚 Bradley Riches!

BRADLEY-听听听听 Hello, thank you for having me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, thank you for coming to see me. I鈥檓 so pleased. You鈥檝e just come out a few days ago; you鈥檙e fresh from the Celebrity Big Brother house. My goodness. Bradley鈥檚 an actor, he鈥檚 an author. You might know him from films like 1917, Saltburn. But particularly you might remember him from the Netflix LGBTQ coming-of-age drama, Heartstopper, which I have been inhaling over the last few days. It was a 75% match on my Netflix, wasn鈥檛 aimed at me but I鈥檓 absolutely loving it. Now, Bradley came out of the Big Brother house in a surprise eviction just before the final. But he is here to give us the lowdown on all things Celebrity Big Brother and his time in the house. Thank you. I鈥檓 so excited.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Thank you [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, how are you? How are you now?

BRADLEY-听听听听 I feel good. Part of me is, like, I kind of miss it [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Do you?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 just because I think with me I like routine, so once I was in that routine and I felt comfortable and very open with everyone I was on a roll and I was just really comfortable in that situation. And then when it was then just pulled away from me last minute it was like, 鈥渙h, now I鈥檓 back to reality, oh God now I have to get into this routine again,鈥� which is slowly but I鈥檓 getting there.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, was there any indication before you went in to the house that there could be a sort of surprise eviction like that? And if not is that fair on an autistic contestant [laughs]?

BRADLEY-听听听听 I think in the contract, obviously you read it, and it鈥檚 Big Brother can always have the last say. So, I think I was always expecting the unexpected no matter what. And I feel like that鈥檚 why it wasn鈥檛 a shock because I felt it coming. I knew someone was going to go that night and I just felt like it was going to be me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And it鈥檚 interesting because you say you鈥檙e really, really into routine, but also expecting the unexpected. As long as the unexpected is expected you鈥檙e okay?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yes, [laughs] definitely that鈥檚 a good way to put it. With the Big Brother house I kind of blocked off those three weeks as that was my routine in this house, like, expecting the unexpected type thing. So, I feel like I got my brain around it quite easily. And then obviously when I was aware and I kind of knew something off was going on then I set myself up to know that someone was going.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Tell me a bit about your routines. What way do you set out your day or your week, like to what level?

BRADLEY-听听听听 So, I always wake up at the same time. I wake up at, like, 8:15 every single day. It鈥檚 kind of like, this sounds really weird, but if you think about a school timetable, you know like when it鈥檚 maths for 50 minutes, da, da, da for 50 minutes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

BRADLEY-听听听听 That is what I like: I like my brain to see that and have all of that. So, it would be like an hour walking my dog, 20 minutes to make my breakfast, ten minutes for a shower. It would be very鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, what if the phone rings or something?

BRADLEY-听听听听 It wouldn鈥檛 distraught my day if a phone rings because I can just ignore it [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 But if there was a sudden leak in the sink or something, that would be鈥�?

BRADLEY-听听听听 I would not go out for the day, well, maybe the week [laughs]. That would be me done, type thing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Were there adjustments made for you in the Celebrity Big Brother house before you went in?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yes, they were very open about, not the schedule within the house, but the schedule before the house. They would always do a timetable for me, which was really helpful. And they did ask if I wanted a watch in there, if I wanted to set a routine for myself. But I wanted to really challenge myself and push myself and try and test myself in a way. So, I didn鈥檛 have a clock in the end, but they did offer that. So, they definitely put stuff in, they did set stuff up to make my time more inclusive and more accessible for me, which was really kind of them.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Now, you did have some quite emotional times in the house.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Let鈥檚 hear a clip:

[Clip]

MARISHA-听听听听听 Are you autistic?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah.

MARISHA-听听听听听 Ah, so how does it show up for you?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Uh, in different ways.

MARISHA-听听听听听 Isn鈥檛 this a lot?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Oh my god, yes [laughs].

MARISHA-听听听听听 Aren鈥檛 you gagging? I鈥檓 like I鈥檓 not even neurodivergent and I feel neurodivergent here. Wow.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 a lot. But I鈥檝e got my coping mechanisms. And that鈥檚 the main reason I wanted to come here, it was, like, to push myself. But when I鈥檓 lying there it鈥檚 like I lie there in bed and it鈥檚 like, god, how am I going to greet everyone in the morning, like, how am I going to say hi to everyone in the morning.

MARISHA-听听听听听 Really?

BRADLEY-听听听听 It鈥檚 tiny things that sometimes add a lot of pressure, but.

MARISHA-听听听听听 It鈥檚 so hard to have things like that because we can鈥檛 see it. I think you鈥檝e done so well.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Because I think sometimes it鈥檚 like overthinking that you鈥檙e not doing everything right.

MARISHA-听听听听听 Oh baby, you鈥檙e doing everything right. Come here.

BRADLEY-听听听听 I don鈥檛 really want to cry [laughs].

MARISHA-听听听听听 No, you鈥檙e crying on TV.

BRADLEY-听听听听 [Crying] I鈥檓 having so much fun.

MARISHA-听听听听听 Because you鈥檙e doing everything right. You鈥檙e doing everything right and you鈥檙e being yourself.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah.

MARISHA-听听听听听 And it鈥檚 beautiful.

[End of clip]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What a lovely clip. And Marisha really knows a lot about neurodivergence.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 She was really on it, wasn鈥檛 she? How did it feel being so honest?

BRADLEY-听听听听 I feel like a lot of time, especially being neurodivergent, people get nervous to say the wrong wording or say the wrong thing type thing, and I feel like Marisha was just so open and so honest. She just wanted to know how I was feeling. And for that to be happening on day four, and for me to even鈥� Like Marisha, I was a big fan of Marisha before I went in as well, so it was quite cathartic. It was really nice to have that connection very, very early on in the experience, because going into it I was very scared of if I wasn鈥檛 going to make any connections because it takes me time to connect with people and understand people.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What was the most challenging thing for you about being in the house?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Like, the first couple of days, maybe the first week, it was, like I said to Marisha, how am I going to greet people, because I struggle to greet people and know if I鈥檓 coming across well and I overthink everything. Especially the morning because you don鈥檛 want to be too much, you don鈥檛 want to greet people too much but you don鈥檛 want to greet people too little. It was that thing of knowing boundaries of people. Because, like, Louis Walsh doesn鈥檛 want me singing in his face when I wake up [laughs]. But for example David I could have that connection with David. So, it was just finding how each connection was different and working it out. And I had to do it quickly because otherwise people were going to hate me and get rid of me very quickly, so [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, because you had to be liked.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah, you had to be liked. Luckily I was quite liked in there, nicely.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. Sorry, I got a little bit distracted there trying to think about what it would be like to be stuck in a house for three weeks with Louis Walsh [laughs].

BRADLEY-听听听听 When Sharon and Louis walked in it was like they walked in and they were like, 鈥淗i everyone鈥� and it was just like, 鈥渙h yeah, this is so normal鈥� [laughs] 鈥渢his is just so, so normal.鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I didn鈥檛 grow up with these people on my telly at all.

BRADLEY-听听听听 No.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And what were your coping mechanisms? So, if you needed to stim what did you do?

BRADLEY-听听听听 When I was in Big Brother I just felt so, so accepted, and I was like if I want to stim I鈥檓 going to stim and not feel ashamed of it. I think that was a big thing. One of my coping mechanisms was obviously stimming.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Tell people what stimming is.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Stimming is when there鈥檚 so much emotion your body just needs to get rid of that energy in different ways of excitement or being anxious. And yeah, I stim quite a lot.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, what do you do?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Hand movements. Also my legs go; I want to free my legs sometimes. I think there鈥檚 a video on TikTok that someone posted of Celebrity Big Brother and it鈥檚 me literally pushing my legs out and falling off the sofa, because it was just so much because I thought I was going to see a loved one, so that was probably quite a hard watch.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 That was you stimming with excitement?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yes. And then before Adrian walks in I鈥檓 clapping my hands together like this [claps quickly], excited, and then obviously that gets ruined as well.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 How important is it for people to see that on television though? You don鈥檛 see that very much, do you?

BRADLEY-听听听听 And it鈥檚 also I don鈥檛 think I ever spoke about stimming in the house, but watching clips back when people are like, oh my god, he鈥檚 literally stimming, like, how important that is and stuff like that. It was like, oh my god, like, I really felt so comfortable in that situation. Because when I stim I don鈥檛 know I鈥檓 really stimming; like you kind of just do it, it鈥檚 kind of natural. But yeah, when people were posting it I was like, I never spoke about it in there but I obviously felt so comfortable and so accepted that my body would just do it, type thing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. And how did you deal with sensory stuff?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yes, the kitchen, oh my god, it was white. It was harsh white lighting and it felt like you were in a studio. That鈥檚 why me and David we鈥檇 always spend time in the garden, in the bathroom, spaces that weren鈥檛 as harsh and made me feel a bit more distressed, type thing. And then obviously walking into the house, obviously there were loud crowds and stuff like that, and the lights and stuff like that, I had my earplugs in which was very helpful. I think it allowed me to be more present, especially in that situation, because I want to absorb all of it, but also I don鈥檛 want to be so overwhelmed and over, like, stimulated that I just shut down and I have a breakdown type thing. So, using those earplugs really helped me to be more present, especially walking in the house.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 I mean, you come across as such a happy chap, and you鈥檝e talked to me really openly about stimming and about being able to wear your earplugs and the lighting. It can鈥檛 have always been like that for you. I mean, being autistic is a journey for most people. You were diagnosed when you were nine.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What was childhood and life like for you before and just after your diagnosis?

BRADLEY-听听听听 I didn鈥檛 use my voice as a form of communication when I was younger, so I didn鈥檛 speak.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What age were you when you started to speak to communicate?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Ten, around ten.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, did you speak at all before you were ten?

BRADLEY-听听听听 No. I would have forms of different communication, so like body or sounds. I would say Aba, my sister鈥檚 name was Amber, so I would always have a very close connection with my sister which was really nice. Without even using my voice they would still understand me. But whereas at school obviously bullying was a big thing, so it was like these kids won鈥檛 understand me, they don鈥檛 take time to understand me, so it was just nothingness really. And that was obviously quite hard growing up because I never had those connections, those friendships growing up. So, that鈥檚 when my Nan said for me to go to drama class, like a weekend school, just to get my confidence up. And then I started to find these people who were very similar to me and they liked the same things, and I began to use my voice as a form of communication as well as my body and my sounds. I had a stammer so I went to the doctor鈥檚 and had vocal training about my stammer. And then with the drama class it allowed me to accept myself a lot more. And I鈥檓 forever grateful for my nan, forever grateful for drama. Acting was an escapism for me; I was playing these characters who weren鈥檛 me, they were far away from me, and it made me find me 鈥� which sounds really weird because I wasn鈥檛 playing me, but.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I鈥檝e met quite a few autistic actors who would say that, absolutely, that acting is the easiest part of who they are...

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah, definitely.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 鈥�in some ways. And then being an autistic teen can be super tough because of your friendship groups, relationships. But you were also dealing with your sexuality and figuring out who you were there, weren鈥檛 you?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah, definitely. It was like when I hit, say, 15 I started to accept who I was, like my neurodivergency, I understood myself more, I knew why I reacted in certain ways. And then obviously I started getting labelled as gay and stuff like that, and I was like, oh my god, there鈥檚 a new thing I need to, like, there鈥檚 another hurdle I need to jump over, my sexuality, what is it? And then I would struggle with my sexuality, not knowing who I was. So, then I felt like I had to go over two hurdles in my teen years. But once I understood myself there, when I was around 19, the past three years I鈥檝e just been so happy and so accepting of myself. And now I鈥檝e got the best friends ever and I鈥檝e found my people finally, which is really nice. I think especially with sexuality you always think that no one鈥檚 going to accept you, and the people who love you the most you鈥檙e scared they鈥檙e going to reject you. But they don鈥檛 love that much if they can鈥檛 accept you. Do you get what I mean?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You鈥檝e been so honest and you鈥檝e used your platform so beautifully, because you鈥檝e also been to Downing Street to talk about loneliness amongst young people.

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 How did that end up happening?

BRADLEY-听听听听 I got asked to be a part, like a face for this campaign called The Loneliness Campaign. And it鈥檚 basically focusing on 16 to 25 year-olds in the youth and younger about how loneliness is normal. Because I feel like everyone at least has felt lonely once in their life, even if you鈥檙e surrounded by all these people you can still feel lonely. And I think breaking that down saying it鈥檚 normal will let people speak more. And I think speaking to loved ones and speaking about how you feel is such a big thing, because once you speak about it you can then overcome it and you can understand why you鈥檙e feeling this way, and then you can have support. And once you find someone who has the same experience as you you just bond over that and then you don鈥檛 feel as lonely anymore.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Now, we cannot have you here in the studio without asking about Heartstopper.

BRADLEY-听听听听 [Laughs] oh god.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 My goodness. Did that change you life?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah. So, I auditioned for Season 1, and I sent my self-tapes in and I got through a couple of rounds for the Season 1, and then didn鈥檛 get the role. And then I randomly got a phone call for Season 1 saying, 鈥渨ould you like to come and do one line,?鈥漛asically like a featured extra in one of the scenes. And I was like, 鈥渙f course I would, that would be great.鈥� So, I did that. And then obviously Season 2 got announced, and obviously I didn鈥檛 think anything of it, and then I got another email, another phone call saying we鈥檇 love for you to audition for the new character of James. And then I found out two days later. It was crazy for them to remember me, especially from doing one line, it was quite cool because it鈥檚 unheard of in this industry, they just audition everyone. And I didn鈥檛 have an agent at the time either because I was studying at drama school.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, without an agent or anything?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Yeah. So, I then had to leave drama school on my third year, one of my last terms. I did all my written work, got my degree thank God.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Woo-hoo! Well done.

BRADLEY-听听听听 [Laughs] thanks. Yeah, it completely changed my life. And I met so many amazing people while doing that job as well, which is really cool.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And Season 3 is coming?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Season 3 is coming.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What can we expect from James and from the show?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Oh, I don鈥檛 know if I can say actually [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh.

BRADLEY-听听听听 But I can say it鈥檚 out in October, which came out while I was in the house.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh come on. Nothing else to give?

BRADLEY-听听听听 No.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Does James have any sort of relationships in this new series?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Who knows? I want to keep my job [laughter].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, what鈥檚 next then? Because you鈥檝e obviously filmed Heartstopper now. What鈥檚 next for you?

BRADLEY-听听听听 Well, weirdly enough today the series I was in called Wreck Season 2 came out on 91热爆3.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, tell us about that.

BRADLEY-听听听听 It鈥檚 a 91热爆 horror with, like, comedic elements. And I play a character called Freddie.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Oh brilliant.

BRADLEY-听听听听 And then I鈥檓 joining a musical in May called Babies The Musical, which will be really cool.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 That sounds very interesting. What鈥檚 that about?

BRADLEY-听听听听 It鈥檚 basically about a group of Year 11s, so all of us are a similar age, we鈥檙e all Year 11, who get an assignment. And it鈥檚 basically to look after a baby simulator, so obviously you have to feed the baby, you have to change the nappy and stuff like that. And everyone鈥檚 in pairs and everyone is going through their own struggles. And then my character gets paired with a boy and they slowly fall in love, well fall for each other, which is going to be really cool to play.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e sort of a gay disabled icon.

BRADLEY-听听听听 [Laughs] well, if you say so, I鈥檒l take it!

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听 Access All.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 This podcast has been going for nearly two years. We are almost at our 100th episode. And to celebrate we are asking our celebrity guests and you the same question. The question is: what is the best piece of advice another disabled person has given you? We鈥檝e had some great answers, both from guests and from listeners, and we want to get more of your answers in please. You can send them by email accessall@bbc.co.uk. You can send them via WhatsApp 0330 123 9480. Or you can send us a message on X or Instagram and we鈥檙e @91热爆AccessAll. What is the best advice a fellow disabled person has given you that鈥檚 really helped you along the way? We want to hear it.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The dating world can be scary for all involved, particularly if you鈥檙e trying to find love on an app. And if you鈥檙e neurodivergent there are additional challenges to think about, whether that be the colours on the app, the brightness, the number of matches that you get in a day. I guess too few is a bit stressful, too many is overwhelming. So, you know, there鈥檚 a lot to think about if you鈥檙e neurodivergent and you鈥檙e trying to date. So, someone who has thought about this a lot and who has founded an app which claims to be entirely neurodiverse-friendly is Jamie Johnston. And Jamie鈥檚 with me now. Hi Jamie.

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 Hi Emma. How are you?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 well thank you. This is a really interesting concept. How did it come about?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 The real catalyst was the pandemic, being locked in my flat, and that really was a catalyst for my mental suffering and that鈥檚 when I sought psychiatrist professional help. It was something I鈥檇 been told a lot throughout my life which is that I have ADHD, and that was confirmed through that testing. And I felt crippled with anxiety about writing anything about it on my dating profile. And so I thought well, this has got to be bigger than just me. So, that was really the purpose of the app. But on the other side it was really about looking at the technology of dating apps and how they can be really problematic for neurodivergents, especially_ people with ADHD where you鈥檝e got unlimited choice, the fact that everything is now paid for. It really felt like a gambling software where, you know, just another fiver in the machine might get you a better prize, okay the prize being a human to talk to and probably a date. And I thought both of those two things were really damaging, and that鈥檚 where the idea for the product came from.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, you were afraid to write anything on your own dating profile about being neurodivergent. You found regular apps very, very stressful. So, you set up Mattr. What is it and how does it work?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 So, we鈥檙e a dating app, and I think what鈥檚 really interesting about what we do is we鈥檙e available to use by anyone. So, anyone listening to this can use Mattr. But we have accessibility for people that need it. And I think this is a real key difference about what our product鈥檚 trying to do. As someone that was removed from classrooms for neurodivergent training and exams I always felt like I didn鈥檛 want to take neurodivergents or take people with mental health or take people with disabilities out of the pool of general dating. I wanted to educate everyone that falls outside that bracket, but also to include them through accessibility features. So, the product is for everyone, with accessibility for those that need it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, what are the specialist features?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 about looking at the whole app in a holistic way. For instance the colours, we use the colours of the UK National Autistic Society, so autistic people can feel already when they see the colours it鈥檚 something they recognise and feel comfortable with.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 If they agree with the National Autistic Society鈥檚 way of working of course.

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, of course. We try to please as many people as possible.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, so colours is one feature.

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 Colours of course, and that鈥檚 just the start off. I think one of the great features that we have is the honesty box. The honesty box is two boxes that you鈥檙e meant to fill in when you come onto the product. One of them is something that鈥檚 called the honesty box that says, Something You鈥檒l Need to Know. And that could be anything from anything about your neurodivergence or mental health or disability or anything, even if you鈥檙e just neurotypical, as we call them, timekeeping, scared of dogs, or whatever it is we give you a chance to be really open and upfront. And 80%, 90% of people that are using the product are using that feature.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, something that might come up in a physical date?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 Of course.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Absolutely. And then there鈥檚 the number of matches, usually you can swipe through as many as you want, can鈥檛 you? What is different on your app?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 I think one of the things that鈥檚 really interesting is we did a survey with 4,000 people before we launched the product, roughly split 50/50 into neurotypicals and neurodiverse, and we asked them, you know, how do dating apps make you feel, what do you like and dislike about dating apps. It鈥檚 kind of crazy that both target groups found that the apps were overwhelming, which was really interesting to see. So, we limit the amount of people you can connect with to seven max a day. Right now it鈥檚 on five, and it increases as the users go up. So, you鈥檙e going to get to six, the next time we get 1,000 more users then it will go to seven. So, we only allow you to see those people. And then at midnight it will refresh, so you鈥檒l get another seven that will come through every day at midnight. But we鈥檙e trying to get you to actually spend some time looking at the profiles and really read into what that person鈥檚 about.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檒l tell you another way that we do that. We don鈥檛 have any swiping, we don鈥檛 have any kind of, like, what鈥檚 behind the next door. Every seven is presented to you in one so that you can see them all. And to be able to connect with someone you can鈥檛 just like; you have to message. And to be able to message you have to open the profile. So, as a tech company we鈥檙e looking at all the different touchpoints and trying to change them to make it more like a human connection, rather than just like swipe, swipe, swipe, yes, no, yes, no.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And what has the feedback been from neurodivergent people?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 We actually did an interview a couple of weeks ago with a neurodivergent user. We speak to around three to four different people on the app every week and do face-to-face interviews and ask them what they like, dislike, how we can improve? And she said, 鈥淲ell, this is my community. These are my people here. And even the people that aren鈥檛 neurodivergent are very understanding of what my condition is so I never feel like I have to spend ages explaining my quirks or traits or anything.鈥漇o, that was a really warming piece of feedback we got.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And what about yourself? This was based on your own story, so what was dating like for you before Mattr came along?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 I mean, dating for me before Mattr came along if you鈥檇 have looked at it on paper I was good. I was dating a lot, I was on the apps, I was going out a lot, I worked in a very exciting industry. But I was always trying to be someone I actually wasn鈥檛, and I was always trying to fit in and I was always trying to be very, I was very aware of who I was and trying to supress that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And did that get you into any difficult situations?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 100% yeah. So, for instance one of the things I really struggle with is eye contact, and that鈥檚 something that ADHD people struggle with a lot. So, I don鈥檛 like to look at people straight in the eye, it makes me feel anxious. So, when I was on dates I knew that that could be perceived as being rude, so I would then try to overcompensate and then I would get anxiety about looking at them in the eyes too much. So, I was kind of having this internal battle with myself all the time about how to behave properly and how to fit in and box myself into the kind of normal, shall I say, way of dating. And obviously that then gave me anxiety where I would ghost or not reply to people or not be a great person afterwards because I was too worried about confronting the fact that they thought I was being strange on the date; when probably it was all in my head and they didn鈥檛 think anything of it, but that鈥檚 how I felt.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 We need to hear about some success stories. Have you heard some success stories?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 We have, yes. Well, actually when you delete the product you have to let us know why you鈥檙e deleting the product. So, it says, like, I met someone; it was too overwhelming, you know, I was too overwhelmed with dating or whatever. And then one of them is I met someone on Mattr. And very interestingly we only launched that feedback form roughly about four weeks ago, I think it was on the Tuesday it launched. Anyway, on the Friday we were all really excited, and it鈥檚 so ridiculous saying this, but we were all really excited that someone deleted our product because we had someone fill in the feedback form and put, I met someone on the app and now I鈥檓 leaving. Which I think that makes me so happy. And in a way it鈥檚 strange because essentially you鈥檙e saying someone鈥檚 not going to be using your product anymore. But what we hope is that they go and tell x amount of their friends and then they come and replace them.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And is the app growing day by day?

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 We鈥檙e up to around 6,000 users within London. We鈥檙e only available in London currently. UK expansion is earmarked for the beginning of next year. It鈥檚 amazing to think 6,000 people are using a product that you had an idea for during lockdown when you were doing a home workout.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you Jamie Johnston, and your Mattr app.

JAMIE-听听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you so much for having me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 That is it for this week鈥檚 episode. Thank you to my guests, to Jamie Johnston from the Mattr dating app and to the absolutely lovely Bradley Riches. I think we鈥檙e going to be hearing a lot more from him. Thank you for listening and talk to you soon. Bye.

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