A Leap of Faith: Finding Common Ground Between Science and Religion
The Forum comes from CERN, The European Council for Nuclear Research, in Geneva, Switzerland and explores the challenge of finding common ground between science and religion.
Promoting a dialogue between science and religion has long been a challenging task- the two communities of thought often seem far apart. The Forum explores the challenge in a discussion recorded at CERN in Switzerland and asks not only why this dialogue is important but how it is working and where it might lead. CERN is the European Organization for Nuclear Research where physicists and engineers are probing the fundamental structure of the universe. Joining Bridget Kendall to discuss common ground between science and religion are: Professor Rolf-Dieter Heuer, a German particle physicist and the Director General of CERN; Marcelo Gleiser, professor of physics and astronomy at Dartmouth College; Dr. Kusum Jain, a renowned Indian scholar of Jain Philosophy and director of the Centre of Advanced Study in Philosophy at the University of Rajasthan, Jaipur; Monsignor Tomasz Trafny, Head of Science and Faith, Vatican City State.
And there is poetry, especially written for the programme, by British poet Murray Lachlan Young.
(Photo: illustration of first proton-lead ion collisions. 漏 2012 CERN, for the benefit of the ALICE Collaboration)
Last on
More episodes
CERN
CERN is a high-energy particle physics organisation headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland. The name CERN is derived from the acronym for the French 鈥淐onseil Europ茅en pour la Recherche Nucl茅aire鈥 or European Council for Nuclear Research. CERN鈥檚 main area of research is particle physics, which is the study of the fundamental constituents of matter and the forces acting between them.
Physicists at CERN are seeking answers to what the universe is made of and how it started, using purpose-build particle accelerators and detectors (including the Large Hadron Collider); accelerators boost beams of particles to high energies before the beams are made to collide with each other or with stationary targets and detectors observe and record the results of these collisions.
The idea for CERN was born in 1949 when physicist Louis de Broglie suggested that all the countries of Europe ought to share a scientific laboratory, leading to CERN being founded in 1954. Because it is a joint effort among governments, CERN enables countries with small populations to participate in advanced physics experiments without having to necessarily burden their science budgets 鈥 fosters a sense of international cooperation and understanding. It was one of Europe鈥檚 first joint ventures and now has 21 member states.Photo: c/o The CERN Institute
Wilton Park
Based in the UK, Wilton Park is an international forum for
strategic discussion.
Wilton Park organises nearly 65 events a year in the UK and
overseas, bringing together leading representatives from the worlds of
politics, diplomacy, academia, business, civil society, the military and the
media.
They focus on issues of international security, prosperity
and justice.听
Their meetings provide a neutral environment where
conflicting views can be expressed and debated openly and calmly, allowing
acceptable compromise and resolution to be achieved. In November 2015 a major
event was held in Switzerland in collaboration with CERN, The European Council
for Nuclear Research.
In 2012 and 2014 CERN and Wilton Park hosted pioneering
international conferences on the 鈥楤ig Bang and the Interface of Knowledge鈥,
broadening the dialogue between scientists, philosophers and theologians. The
first of the conferences focused on aspects of searching for a common language,
while the second conference was directed towards a common understanding of
truth.
A key theme emerging from 2014鈥檚 event was the nature and
understanding of logic, and this third meeting, in November 2015, focused on
broadening that particular dialogue between scientists, philosophers and
theologians.
The Forum recorded a discussion exploring common ground
between science, religion and philosophy at CERN on the last day of the
conference with some of the attendees.
Rolf-Dieter Heuer
Professor Rolf-Dieter Heuer,听 German particle physicist and the Director General of the European Organization of Nuclear Research, or CERN, since 2009. Professor Rolf-Dieter Heuer has been the Director General of CERN since 2009. In his first few months on the job, he opened new lines of communication, oversaw repairs to the Large Hadron Collider, and promoted a worldwide strategy for particle physics based on a strong mix of global, regional, and national projects. On the morning of July 4 2012, Dr Heuer stood in front of the world鈥檚 physicists and said, 鈥淚 think we have it,鈥 declaring an end to the half-century chase for the Higgs boson, a keystone of modern physics that explains why elementary particles have mass. He is now entering the last year of his term; in 2016, Fabiola Gianotti, an Italian particle physicist, will take over as the director and Dr. Heuer will become the director of the German Physical Society.
Marcelo Gleiser
Marcelo Gleiser, is Professor of physics and astronomy at Dartmouth College and specialises in cosmology, nonlinear physics and astrobiology.听 Marcelo is a fellow of the American Physical Society and a recipient of the Presidential Faculty Fellows Award from the White House and the National Science Foundation. His main research interests fall into two general areas: the interface between cosmology and particle physics and the origin of life on Earth and the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe.
Kusum Jain
Monsignor Tomasz Trafny
Monsignor Tomasz Trafny, Head of Science and Faith, Vatican
City State.
Born in Dar艂owo (Poland)
in 1970, Father Tomasz Trafny completed his studies in philosophy and theology
at the Catholic University of Lublin. Ordained a priest in 1996 for the
Archdiocese of Lublin, he served as a chaplain in the Hospice for terminally
ill patients. He continued his post-graduated studies in philosophy at the
Catholic University of Lublin and then at the Pontifical Lateran University in
Rome. From 2006 he served as the Official of the Pontifical Council for Culture
- Head of Science and Faith Department and General Secretary of the Board of
Trustees of Science and Faith 鈥 STOQ (Science, Theology and the Ontological
Quest) Foundation. He deals with matters related to the cultural analysis of
the development of natural sciences, to the dialogue between science and
religion, but his interests include also neurocognitive sciences, robotics,
bionics, regenerative medicine, new anthropological challenges, environmental
and climate change issues.
"I don鈥檛 think most people necessarily see science and faith as being opposed but I do think there is confusion as to where to put faith and where to put science in their life. So the question for us is how to offer a coherent vision of society, culture and the human being to people who would like to understand where to put these dimensions 鈥 the spiritual and religious and the scientific".
Murray Lachlan Young
Murray Lachlan Young is a well-regarded UK poet.听 He came to international attention through signing a million pound record deal with EMI records in 1997. Subsequently he has become known for his numerous appearances and residencies on 91热爆 Radio 2, 4 and as resident poet of 91热爆 6 music. He recently co-adapted the new movie version of the Dylan Thomas Classic: Under Milkwood.听 For The Forum@Cern, Murray has written three poems using some of the themes explored in the discussion.
Something and Nothing (by Murray Lachlan Young)
If beyond everything there is nothing
And nothing knows nothing of things
And nothing knows nothing of nothing
Then everything鈥檚 everything
听
And for every thing to be something
First something must say things are things
For without a thing, to decide things are things
Tell me how can a thing be a thing?
听
But when something says something is nothing
Then nothing is known by a thing
So the thing that said something is nothing
Makes nothing a thing that鈥檚 something
听
If beyond everything there is nothing
And nothing knows nothing of things
And something knows something of nothing
Can nothing not, not be a thing?
Tortoises all the Way Down (by Murray Lachlan Young)
The world is not round
The world is flat
And it sits on a giant
Tortoise鈥檚 back
听
And that Tortoise
Sits on another Tortoise
And so on and so forth
The tortoises abound
听
But you won鈥檛 catch me out
Asking - what鈥檚 at the bottom?
It鈥檚 Tortoises
All the way down
听
Yes its Tortoises
All the way down of course
It鈥檚 Tortoises
All the way down
听
I can鈥檛 prove it of course
But then neither could you
Prove the world is
The slightest bit round
听
Circular, regressive
Axiomatic
It seems that it鈥檚 simple
For people to see
听
That nothing
Adds up
If you follow it through
Epistemologically
听
Yet as Munchhausen said
To the hairs on his head
As he bootstrapped himself
From the mud laden ground
听
It鈥檚 Tortoises
All the way down
My friends
It鈥檚 Tortoises
All the way down
听
(Tortoises听 all the Way Down deals with The M眉nchhausen trilemma 鈥 a term used in epistemology to stress the impossibility to prove any truth even in the fields of logic and mathematics. The origins of the story are unclear but one version has it that a well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant turtle." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise听听 standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!" )
A poem: for those wondering what it鈥檚 all about (by Murray Lachlan Young)
Please listen very carefully
For taken Hypothetically
Supported comprehensively
Basically originally
A single singularity
Exploded quite impressively
Expanded exponentially
Creating stars and galaxies
With what must be quite logically
And coolly cosmologically
The building blocks of you and me
And continents and land and sea
A process evolutionary
Through dinosaur hegemony
Into our human ancestry
To cultural diversity
A growing global family
Producing universities
Facilities, laboratories
Religion met the sciences
Where people made discoveries
Of fundamental articles
听
And elementary particles
Both magical and technical
And also Mathematical
And random and symmetrical
Chemical and classical
Explained the metaphysical
That all things were divisible
But there must be a particle
Much smaller than a neutron ball
When answering the Hadron call
Will finally inform us all
That we are one and we are all
That we are great and we are small
We are day and we are night
We are dark and we are light
And I am he
As you are he
As you are me
And we are all together
I am the egg man
I am the egg man
I am the Walrus!
Coo coo ca Chooo!
Dipole Magnet
A photo of a 3D cut of the LHC dipole magnet at CERN.
c/o CERN institute
(with permission)
Broadcasts
- Mon 7 Dec 2015 02:06GMT91热爆 World Service except Americas and the Caribbean, Australasia & News Internet
- Mon 7 Dec 2015 05:06GMT91热爆 World Service Americas and the Caribbean
- Tue 8 Dec 2015 09:06GMT91热爆 World Service except News Internet
- Tue 8 Dec 2015 13:06GMT91热爆 World Service Australasia
- Tue 8 Dec 2015 23:06GMT91热爆 World Service except News Internet
- Wed 9 Dec 2015 02:06GMT91热爆 World Service Australasia
Do you think political or business leaders need to be charismatic? Or do you prefer highly competent but somewhat stern people?
Podcast
-
The Forum
The programme that explains the present by exploring the past