91Èȱ¬

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

Ìý

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 91Èȱ¬ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

Ìý

Ìý

IN TOUCH – Blind Charities, Baluji Shrivastav at 70

Ìý

TX:Ìý 06.10.20Ìý 2040-2100

Ìý

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý MIKE YOUNG

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

White

Good evening.Ìý Tonight, we’re going to hear about a chance for you to have a say in shaping in the way that some of the biggest blind charities focus their efforts in the future.Ìý But will they listen?Ìý And, the unusual things that fall into my hands when I make this programme.

Ìý

Clip

White

It’s huge!

Ìý

Shrivastav

It’s huge!

Ìý

Whitge

The bottom is vast.

Ìý

Shrivastav

Exactly.

Ìý

White

And that’s the gourd, that’s what you call the gourd?

Ìý

Shrivastav

That’s the gourd, yes.

Ìý

White

It’s beautifully decorated isn’t it, very tactile.

Ìý

Well, no sniggering at the back there.Ìý That was my first time handling a sitar and tonight we’re going to be catching up with blind Indian music legend – Baluji Shrivastav – as he prepares to celebrate his 70th birthday.Ìý We’ll hear just how tough 2020 has been for musicians like him.

Ìý

But first, getting us underway, it’s been described as a first of its kind – a research project on the needs of blind and partially sighted people.Ìý It’s a combined effort from Guide Dogs, the Royal National Institute of Blind People and the Thomas Pocklington Trust.Ìý They say that they’re coming together to find out the needs and experiences of blind and partially sighted people.Ìý The research will be conducted in hundreds of interviews, which will be going through until November.Ìý Well, Keith Valentine is from the RNIB and is overseeing this project.

Ìý

Keith, I’ve been around a while, how is this research a first?

Ìý

Valentine

So, it’s a first in a number of ways.Ìý I mean I think certainly you may have been around longer than me but in the 10 years I’ve been working in the sight loss sector I think this is the first time that the major national charities have properly gathered together to create an insight platform that can be used by everyone, using the jargon Insight Platform to mean a deep understanding of what’s going on for the diverse communities of people with sight loss.

Ìý

White

But, with respect, there has been a lot of research around on this, I mean only a month ago, on this programme, we featured what sounds like a similar survey of around 750 visually impaired people and that was by Fight for Sight.Ìý And don’t your organisations, of all people, know what visually impaired people need?

Ìý

Valentine

I think that we need to build data and evidence to make sure that charities are properly focusing on the genuine needs of people.Ìý And if you think about the way that the recent lockdown has impacted blind and visually impaired people, it’s been hugely different, depending on life experience, on contacts and whether they’ve got connections with other blind people or not and what we’re trying to do here is properly look to the future by building a genuine and deep understanding.Ìý So, where you point to work done by other charities – Fight for Sight and other organisations, the Pocklington, themselves, have done other pieces of work – what we’re trying to do is draw all of that together so that the blind and visually impaired community can rightly expect the charitable sector to be properly bringing all of the evidence together, coordinating with one voice and responding to the diverse experiences of blind people, not imagining what blind people want but truly listening and understanding.

Ìý

White

So, exactly what does this research involve?Ìý I mean what sort of questions will you be asking people?

Ìý

Valentine

It’s very wide ranging and this is one of the bases that it’s relatively unique.Ìý So, it goes all the way from eye health and experience with the NHS through people’s wellbeing and their sense of confidence right the way through to how people are participating in leisure and sports activities.Ìý So, it’s very, very comprehensive but also very responsive to the different circumstances of different communities.Ìý So, it’s a truly diverse piece of work.

Ìý

White

Well, we’ve decided to give you a bit of a preview because, I mean…

Ìý

Valentine

Excellent.

Ìý

White

…we feature the perspectives of blind and partially sighted people every week on this programme.Ìý We’ve asked a couple of visually impaired people, young visually impaired people in this case – Holly Scott-Gardner and Charlie Allen.Ìý What was the number one thing they think is needed to improve the way we live our lives and what kind of action is needed by the organisations?

Ìý

Scott-Gardner

I think the biggest need is a more robust rehabilitation system because right now we have a situation where not every blind person gets the rehab services they need; in fact, I’d be willing to say most blind people don’t get what they need.Ìý And local councils are trying to contract out to some of the blindness organisations but they don’t have enough staff and then the council doesn’t have enough staff either to provide these rehab services.Ìý And we’re just trying to fill the gaps at the moment.Ìý So, a great example of this is disabled students and employees through Access to Work.Ìý So, one of the big solutions is – I’ll provide you a sighted guide, we’ll get you a sighted guide to take you to and from your lectures or to guide you around your office.Ìý But actually, that isn’t effective and it’s not economically viable long term.Ìý What would be better is to invest in a rehab system where blind people receive the training, so they didn’t actually need to be guided everywhere.

Ìý

Allen

I think that one of the things that really needs a change is the access to the benefit system.Ìý I know that lots of people struggle to access it, whether it’s just the documents or the support needed or the questions that are asked.Ìý I think that there is a lot of change that needs to happen and whether that’s from organisations like the RNIB putting campaigns forward towards government to change some of that or whether that’s actual support with the application process I think things need to change in that regard.

Ìý

White

Well, that’s Charlie and before him Holly with their perspectives, Keith, is that the kind of thing you ought to be doing something about?

Ìý

Valentine

Well two things on that Peter.Ìý Firstly, fantastic voices to hear and I hope we can encourage those guys and their friends and colleagues to participate in this survey.Ìý I’m sad to say it’s not surprising to me the experiences that people have got from diagnosis through to those experiences of getting through education and the way that support is offered.Ìý And we know, along with the other charities, Guide Dogs and Thomas Pocklington participating in this, that there’s systemic change needed on some of these problems.

Ìý

White

Can I just take Holly’s point because I think it illustrates something that listeners will worry about?Ìý She talks about rehabilitation, it’s the whole business of learning how to be visually impaired if you like.Ìý Now the RNIB used to run two residential rehab centres, one dealing with preparation for employment, one daily living skills, they’ve both closed, long time ago now, some people might say what they want is less surveys and more direct services.Ìý What do you say to that?

Ìý

Valentine

Well the state has an obligation to provide rehabilitation services to blind and visually impaired people…

Ìý

White

But if the state isn’t doing it, at that point, we need somebody to do it, don’t we?Ìý The organisations, to some extent, seem to have set themselves up as saying this is what ought to happen but if it doesn’t happen what do you do then?

Ìý

Valentine

Well our job is to make sure it happens.Ìý And I think both of the guys that you interviewed there pointed to wanting the sight loss charities to put pressure on government and on the system to get things right.Ìý Now one of the things that this survey will do in getting proper insight, getting those voices properly explored and expanded is give momentum to try and secure those kinds of changes.Ìý And the young woman mentioned there about the relationship between charities and local authorities and we all know the pressures that are on local authorities but the view that we would take is that that doesn’t mean that the needs of blind people are expendable in that.Ìý And in fact, those rehabilitation services are critical, as the young woman stressed there, in people securing their own independence.Ìý And I think in order to get that kind of leverage on government we need to build the evidence and make sure these voices are drawn in through this survey.Ìý And then the charitable sector will speak as one in trying to get that kind of change pushed through.

Ìý

White

You paused this research because of the covid pandemic, how much, do you think, the experiences of the last six months might shape the answers you hear from people?

Ìý

Valentine

It’s going to be a factor.Ìý I mean we’ve yet to see what that will be coming through Peter but I mean I know from my own experience and talking to you before and the very many people that we talk to everyday, as you do with your programme, that this has had a dramatic impact.Ìý And certainly, with the work we were doing at the RNIB with other charities early in the pandemic was looking at people’s fear about being able to access even the most essential basics like food.Ìý Now I can’t imagine the impact on the employment market, the education system, for example, my daughter’s visually impaired all her courses have gone online, so all the social things have been removed, that’s going to play out in these responses.Ìý But, to be honest with you, one of the reasons why we’re so confident that this is unique is the charity sector is together now in a way that I’ve not seen it before and the point, I think, is to try and get the best we can out of what we’ve all been through in this pandemic and build a new normal that properly responds to what blind and visually impaired people need for real in everyday life.

Ìý

White

So, Keith, let’s cut to the nuts and bolts – how do people take part?

Ìý

Valentine

Right, well, it’s a telephone-based interview and there’s a phone number people can ring – if I could read that out?Ìý It’s 0161 5077360.

Ìý

White

Okay, I’ll repeat that number:Ìý 0161 5077360.Ìý And there is an email address as well – all that information will be on our website if you want to take part.

Ìý

Valentine

Thanks Peter.

Ìý

White

Now, three years ago I was given something of a crash course in sitar playing by blind Indian musician Baluji Shrivastav.Ìý

Ìý

Clip

White

It’s huge.

Ìý

Shrivastav

It’s huge.

Ìý

White

The bottom is vast.

Ìý

Shrivastav

Exactly.

Ìý

White

And that’s the gourd – that’s what you call the gourd?

Ìý

Shrivastav

That’s the gourd.Ìý Yes.

Ìý

White

It’s beautifully decorated isn’t it?Ìý

Ìý

Shrivastav

Yes, yes.

Ìý

White

Very tactile.

Ìý

Shrivastav

And if you can hold the sitar now.

Ìý

White

Yes.Ìý Would I hold it sort of like a guitar almost?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Almost like a guitar – no, no, it’s at 45 angle.

Ìý

White

Oh right, so I hold it upwards?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Yes.Ìý So, if you can – and you’re…

Ìý

White

My first chord Baluji.

Ìý

Shrivastav

Yeah, that’s wonderful.

Ìý

White

And I’m ashamed to say I haven’t made a great deal of progress since then.Ìý Well Baluji is the founder and musical director of the Inner Vision Orchestra and the Baluji Music Foundation.Ìý He’s worked with Stevie Wonder, Annie Lennox, Shakira, Kylie Minogue and Boy George and now he has a new album being released as he prepares to mark his 70th birthday with a concert in London.

Ìý

Here’s just a flavour of his new record.

Ìý

Music – Baluji Shrivastav

Ìý

Spanish and Indian vibes there, combining In Dreams of Andalusia from the new album Indian Classical Interaction.Ìý Baluji joins me know.

Ìý

Lovely to talk to you again.Ìý This is a tricky time to be recording and performing music with other performers of course, we’ve seen lots of examples of this.Ìý When did you put this album together?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Part of it was recorded in corona time.Ìý We had to go and record some bits of it.Ìý But it was recorded just before corona time, luckily for me.Ìý

Ìý

White

You say you had to add a few things and change a few things, did you go to the studio or did you do that online, how did you do it?

Ìý

Shrivastav

No, I had to go to the studio.Ìý Windows are open and everything was – social distance was maintained.Ìý The studio engineer was there and I was talking to him from the different room.

Ìý

White

But all very strange, I guess?

Ìý

Shrivastav

It was very strange, yes, it was definitely very strange and going – wearing mask it was very difficult.

Ìý

White

You were given the OBE for services to music after founding Inner Vision – the Inner Vision Orchestra.Ìý That’s the only professional blind orchestra in the UK.Ìý How has the orchestra coped with 2020 anyway because you were supposed to be having your biggest ever national tour this year weren’t you?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Inner Vision 2020 and now Inner Vision corona corona, that’s what we’re having.Ìý We have been performing online but there are two disadvantages for blind people – clapping is important for everyone; we couldn’t tell any clapping and also, we couldn’t see who was watching us.Ìý I would say since we are allowed six people in one place, we have performed some places like St John’s Church in Waterloo, they were having picnic in the sunshine and we were performing and lots of clappings were heard first time and I was so pleased to hear those clappings.Ìý But still money’s not coming to us.Ìý

Ìý

White

No, financial problems for everyone.

Ìý

Shrivastav

Exactly.

Ìý

White

Now you founded the Baluji Music Foundation to increase the proportion of blind and visually impaired people working in the UK music industry, and the foundation has launched blind.tv, which aims to make blind people more visible, filming them for You Tube, tell us a bit more about that and how it works.

Ìý

Shrivastav

The blind.tv is my idea, thinking that blind people are always ignored, so we should always be known by that.Ìý And I would say that any blind person who is doing some new things they should also talk to us and we should put their films.Ìý It has got about 20 films already.Ìý There are some other activities, like we keep doing, nowadays in corona, those activities are also put on the blind tv and that is on 24/7.

Ìý

White

Do you think you’ve had an effect; do you think you are introducing musicians who perhaps wouldn’t have had the confidence to go ahead on their own?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Yes, that’s right.Ìý I mean part of the Inner Vision Orchestra is also to build the confidence and meet lots of blind people and give them confidence, get rid of the stage fright.Ìý And we have some very good examples, like Fereshteh, who is an Iranian singer, she didn’t have any confidence and since she has come to the Inner Vision, I don’t think anybody has more confidence than her.

Ìý

White

And do you think that’s about working with other blind people?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Absolutely, that’s working with other blind people.Ìý And also, the aim of the Inner Vision is to working blind people with every other musician, like I have done.Ìý But I have done because of my sitar playing, sitar is really unusual instrument for this country, for Europe.Ìý So, I got so much work and I would appreciate if everybody – all the blind people can get work like I have got with everybody else.

Ìý

White

You’re approaching your 70th birthday now in December and a celebratory concert is planned at Lauderdale House in Highgate in North London, that’s on 13th December.Ìý Now these are tricky things to arrange during a pandemic, how have you gone about it, is it going to happen Baluji?

Ìý

Strivastay

Hopefully it will take place.Ìý As everybody knows, it can be difficult but if Boris allows us to do it, we will do it.

Ìý

White

And as you approach the start of your eighth decade is there one thing in particular you look back on or look ahead to with the greatest pleasure?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Well, I’m very thankful to my team which is working at the moment with me, without team I would be just doomed completely.Ìý These people are really helping me.Ìý

Ìý

White

And is there one aim you still have to achieve?

Ìý

Shrivastav

Oh, lots of things, I’m actually even, in corona time, we are recording an album, hopefully it will come out in next year.

Ìý

White

Well, Baluji Shrivastav, I really hope that concert comes off.Ìý And in the meantime, I’ll keep practising, good to talk to you.

Ìý

Shrivastav

Wonderful, wonderful, thank you very much.Ìý And I would like you to play Twinkle Twinkle on sitar.

Ìý

White

Can’t promise that but you never know.

Ìý

That is it for today.Ìý Next week Fern Lulham will be here presenting her first programme, while I take a short break, and she’ll be hearing about the dwindling number of audio described performances at theatres and that was before lockdown.Ìý Do tell us if you’ve seen an audio described theatre performance and how that, hopefully, added to your enjoyment or maybe it didn’t – tell us about that as well.Ìý Email intouch@bbc.co.uk or you can go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch from where you can download tonight’s and previous editions of the programme.

Ìý

That’s it from me, Peter White, producer Mike Young and perhaps really we should end with Baluji and a bit more sitar music.

Ìý

Music