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Not just in the United States, but across the world the Black Lives Matter movement has prompted debate about race, identity and power. It is a campaign predicated on ideas about what it means to be black and white, but what if those terms are themselves part of the problem? Stephen Sackur speaks to Thomas Chatterton Williams, a mixed-race American writer and self-declared ex-black man whose ideas present a challenge to so-called woke culture. How much room is there right now for respectful, thoughtful debate?