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Amid the talk of spikes and second waves one thing is clear - people predicting an early end to the coronavirus pandemic are indulging in wishful thinking. Can we find a way of living with Covid-19 that respects the science while mitigating the damage being done to our economic and social lives? HARDtalk's Stephen Sackur speaks to Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust and a key scientific advisor to the UK government. How dangerous is the moment we're in?