91Èȱ¬

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 91Èȱ¬ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

Ìý

IN TOUCH – 91Èȱ¬ Schooling and Sirine Jahangir

Ìý

TX:Ìý 26.05.20Ìý 2040-2100

Ìý

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý KEV CORE

Ìý

White

Good Evening.Ìý Tonight, the pluses and minuses for visually impaired parents home-schooling during lockdown.Ìý And, a star is born:

Ìý

Music

Ìý

We’ll be talking to 14-year-old Sirine, who’s just wowed TV viewers with this performance.

Ìý

Music

Ìý

But first, with the debate about who should go back to school and when, still in full swing, we asked, on last week’s In Touch, how visually impaired parents were coping with home-schooling.Ìý Amongst those who responded was Nick Adamson from Caerphilly, who has two sighted children, aged 10 and 12.Ìý He began by telling me about how he teaches the youngster – his son Euan.

Adamson

It is a bit apptastic.Ìý We’ve got about five different apps between the two children.Ìý The school are setting work, they’re setting weekly maths, weekly English and sort of two weekly projects.Ìý And he’s keeping going.Ìý We’re keeping going about, oh I don’t know, two hours a day maybe.Ìý And that’s working out well for him, given the weirdness of the situation and he is doing really well.Ìý My daughter, so, obviously secondary school it’s more – if you were in school you’d be moving from subject to subject, so, each of the subjects has a Google classroom and the teachers set work and she hands it in and they send marks back and they set tasks and quizzes and videos and slide packs and stuff like that to watch.Ìý And that’s working really well for us.

Ìý

White

You do have a sighted partner; I mean how much of this are you able to do yourself?

Ìý

Adamson

Yeah, I would say I’m able to do, you know, 95-98% of it, there’s very little that I can’t do.ÌýÌý With Euan, my son, he needs a little bit more guidance because he is only 10; my daughter, very much, just kind of gets on with it.Ìý We’re looking at her work, we’re checking it over before she hands it in and stuff like that and that’s all just your bog-standard office tools and all that sort of stuff and all that is working really well with the screen reader for me.Ìý Like I said, between the two children, we’ve got a see-saw which is like a communications app, that the teachers use to send us comments.Ìý We’ve got class charts, which is a way of getting marks back.Ìý We’ve got Google classroom, we’ve got Microsoft teams, Goggle drive – yeah, it’s very much – you know, I’m quite fortunate that I’m quite a technical person but I would imagine if you weren’t it could be a bit daunting.

Ìý

White

Now Hetal Bapodra is in a different position.Ìý Hetal, your situation is more complicated, isn’t it, just explain.

Ìý

Bapodra

My husband and I are both blind.Ìý We have a seven-year-old, a three-year-old and a baby.Ìý The seven-year-old, he’s in year two and our daughter had just started pre-school at the primary school that she’ll be going to in September.

Ìý

White

So, how have you been managing?

Ìý

Bapodra

Not very well, if I’m honest.Ìý So, my son, before lockdown happened, we’d just been screened for dyslexia, our reading age is probably – we’re looking at late reception, I would say.Ìý So, he was already struggling and he was already behind.Ìý For the first two weeks of lockdown our school sent downloadable worksheets and before I go on – I absolutely feel like the school are doing their best with limited resources because there are lots of different apps.Ìý I’ve gone on to dyslexia websites and they’ve suggested apps but our problem is because my husband and I are both blind the initial setup of these things can be really inaccessible.Ìý I mean I’ve just – I’ve kind of been trying my best, I feel like I’m failing, if I’m honest.Ìý We’ve been using 91Èȱ¬ bitesize, we’ve been playing the games but it’s really tricky, I feel like – lots of people have always said to me – oh, don’t you have a sighted person that can help you with that – yeah, because we really have a sighted person that keep in the cupboard for such things.Ìý It’s an expectation that you’re going to have sighted help on hand which we don’t.

Ìý

White

Given your situation did you consider maybe letting your son stay at school, given that they have remained open for children regarded as needing extra help?

Ìý

Bapodra

We had talked about it.Ìý When lockdown happened, the message was very clear, if you can keep your children home, protect the NHS, keep your children home.

Ìý

White

I’ve talked to some visually impaired teachers about this and some of them wondered if there was really that much academic work being done at school, particularly for age seven.Ìý I mean are you perhaps being a bit tough on yourself?

Ìý

Bapodra

Perhaps but I feel like my son’s quite a bright child and he needs something, he needs some stimulation.Ìý We all know the statistics that boys can be left behind, he’s already very far behind because of dyslexia – that’s not his fault, that’s not anybody’s fault – but as a parent I want to support him, I’m desperate to support him, not just in this situation but throughout his education and we have found, since he started school, and I guess since my daughter will start school, people expect that school have to make things accessible.Ìý But I don’t think they do and if I’m to support my children’s education I need some help with accessibility but I also need something to back me up with that and schools have a limited budget, they can’t be expected to cater to one parent if they don’t have to.

Ìý

White

Well, we’re also joined by Sean Randall, of the support group Blind Parents UK, to talk really about what you can expect.Ìý Sean also teaches visually impaired children at New College Worcester.Ìý So, Sean how common is Hetal’s situation?

Ìý

Randall

I think the two people we’ve got today, Peter, are very sort of at either end of a very broad spectrum.Ìý Nick’s obviously – it’s working well for him and his family and Het’s struggling through no fault of any individual.Ìý But, yeah, I think a lot of people are struggling and as Nick said earlier, a lot of that is down to not having the resources, whereas what Hetal’s been offered in terms of getting sighted help is perhaps something that Nick’s managed to work around by using more technology, if that makes sense.

Ìý

White

What help does Hetal have a right to ask for?

Ìý

Randall

Yeah, well, state schools obviously have a duty of care for the children and they have the obligation to make reasonable adjustments.Ìý But as Het’s quite obviously spotted, limited budgets very much put a cap on what is a reasonable adjustment.Ìý The chances here are that the worksheets have been produced by a company who haven’t really thought about accessibility and made the effort and there’s a very high chance there will be similar resources tackling similar sort of work made by companies that have produced more accessible work, which would do the same sort of job for Het’s family.

Ìý

White

Would this be different in the child were visually impaired, as opposed to the parents?

Ìý

Randall

Absolutely, because the child would have an EHCP – an education healthcare plan – they would have paid staffing in terms of QTVIs or teaching assistants who were there to adapt classwork as and when.

Ìý

White

We don’t know how long this situation will carry on for, of course, I mean what needs to happen here to make it viable?

Ìý

Randall

My instinct is to say get the local authorities to step up a little bit, they’re all working from home already and the resources that Het’s family need to use are presumably already being used by visually impaired children.Ìý It’s all about communication and perhaps getting the school to talk to the local authority with their disability unit or team or whatever they have, so that they know which resources are usable and which aren’t.

Ìý

White

Hetal, a final word from you?

Ìý

Bapodra

I guess that I’d always been told that because my child wasn’t disabled there was no obligation for anything to be made accessible.Ìý Now, you know, my school have been really good in terms of when there are parents evening, when there’s school plays and things, I feel like we have a really good relationship with our school.Ìý And the problem is, Peter, I have never ever wanted to home school my children, a teacher I definitely am not and so I don’t know where to start.Ìý And I’d say like I’m quite technical but probably not as technical as Nick is and my husband’s the technical one but he’s having to work, we’re all sort of bumbling – bumbling along because my son can’t read me the things that he needs to read me, so that I can help him.

Ìý

White

And, as always, we’d like to know what other listeners are doing – problems and solutions please.Ìý

Ìý

You certainly had plenty to say following our discussion last week about social distancing rules and their implications for us as a group.

Ìý

Martin Barber told us some of his worries:

Ìý

Barber

I’m often unsure if I’m two metres from other people.Ìý Even taking a taxi, I sometimes need the driver’s help to get in and out.Ìý Blind people, living on their own, need the government to provide a special dispensation from physical distancing to allow them to take an elbow while travelling.Ìý We could be required to wear face coverings in these situations but if no provision is made, I don’t see how I’ll be able to go anywhere in the foreseeable future.

Ìý

White

Tony Joyce is concerned about one group in particular.Ìý He works with people who have sight loss and learning difficulties.

Ìý

Joyce

When we go out staff wear masks and gloves but our clients wouldn’t tolerate them.Ìý We take their arms but we don’t take them into any enclosed areas, apart from their own residence.Ìý Maybe more cognitively able blind people might wear masks and gloves.

Ìý

White

People such as Olav Ernstzen perhaps, who thinks that maybe we’re worrying too much about this.

Ìý

Ernstzen

I go out side for a walk almost every morning, including through the streets and a few times around a small local park.Ìý Everyone is friendly.Ìý I walk arm in arm with someone in my household and the risk outside is less as the air disperses breath.Ìý Follow the guidance but apply common sense.

Ìý

White

And Oriel Britton believes we may be worrying about the wrong thing.

Ìý

Britton

Social distancing and blindness can work fine together with good communication.Ìý I’m far more worried about the long-term economic and employment prospects for people with sight loss.Ìý Million of people throughout the world have had their life chances limited by the economic meltdown.Ìý It stands to reason that disabled people are going to be even more disadvantaged.Ìý If you thought blind people were at the back of the queue for a job before, there’ll be at the back of a crowd now.

Ìý

White

Well thanks to all of those who responded.

Ìý

Music

Ìý

Someone who may not have to worry too much about a job in the future is 14-year-old Sirine Jahangir.Ìý This is part of her recent performance on ITV’s Britain’s Got Talent.

Ìý

Music

Ìý

With a lot of her family watching, Sirine’s spot on the talent show caused something of an overnight sensation.

Ìý

Well, along with a proud father, she’s been explaining how it all came about.

Ìý

Jahangir

I’ve been a fan of BGT ever since I was, I think, five, so I used to watch Britain’s Got Talent a lot with my brothers.Ìý And last year I went to see the actual live shows with my friend and you know I was absolutely inspired by the acts and how they were able to show people their passion and get appreciated for it.Ìý And I thought, why not, why don’t I try it.Ìý And my whole life my dad’s told me – always try new things.Ìý And like going from like learning braille to doing half the things that I do and Britain’s Got Talent was one of them and I took a shot at it and now I’m here and it’s crazy.

Ìý

White

It’s a big deal, this show, I mean millions of people watching – were you nervous?

Ìý

Jahangir

Of course.Ìý You know, for the sighted people they could see that I was clearly extremely nervous, my hands were shaking, I didn’t know how I was playing the piano.Ìý My voice was shaking, I think, a lot, like especially before actually going on stage.Ìý I was talking to my dad and I was like – how am I going to do this.

Ìý

Music

Ìý

I honestly was so nervous because I’ve done nothing – I’ve never done anything like that, I’ve only ever done school performances, I’ve never sung on such a big stage and been on TV.Ìý And it was absolutely incredible.

Ìý

White

How serious are you about singing?Ìý Is it a potential career maybe?

Ìý

Jahangir

One hundred percent.Ìý Like I’ve never taken music that seriously, I always wanted to become a dancer but when I lost my sight other things became harder, especially dancing, so, I pursued music and now I’m singing on BGT and I do say it’s incredible because it genuinely is to me.

Ìý

White

You say you want to use your profile to raise awareness of visual impairment, what did you have in mind?

Ìý

Jahangir

You know, on my Instagram I’ve been getting a lot of messages from people who struggle with loss of sight and it really – it’s amazing to see that, you know, through my music and just through walking on stage being able to perform to people, I’ve inspired people and I’m so, so grateful for the opportunity to do that.Ìý And I really hope, that in the future – I’m taking it step by step, so I don’t know what I’m going to do in five years, 10 years’ time but hopefully in the future I’ll be able to inspire people through my music and just through doing what I do.

Ìý

Music

Ìý

White

Let’s just bring in your father, Kafeel.Ìý You were there, with the rest of the family, a lot of them anyway, how did it feel?

Ìý

Kafeel Jahangir

It was a very proud moment for all of us, as you can see.Ìý I was nervous but in a way I wasn’t that nervous because to me it was just Sirine going out and performing, if she did well she did well, I wasn’t expecting her to do well, to be honest, I just thought…

Ìý

Jahangir

You didn’t know I could sing.

Ìý

Kafeel Jahangir

… yeah, we didn’t really know that she could sing as well as that until the judges stood up – I just though, you know, it’s a pastime for her.Ìý But yeah, I mean it was just a proud moment.

Ìý

White

Now, it’s not the first time Sirine has featured on In Touch is it and these are happier circumstances, just explain.

Ìý

Kafeel Jahangir

Well I came on your show, I think it was 2016, so Sirine had just lost her vision at that time, she was applying for secondary school and we were in Westminster and I came on your show to highlight the fact that there was no facilities and it was very frustrating – Westminster were very lackadaisical in terms of trying to find her secondary schooling.Ìý And eventually, we moved to Barnet and Barnet Council were really helpful, they found her a school and you know she flourished in a mainstream school.Ìý She’s doing well at school and obviously she’s made friends and stuff, so it’s good.

Ìý

White

Do you fancy having a daughter who’s a singing star?

Ìý

Kafeel Jahangir

Well, you know what, I just want a daughter who’s happy and doing what she wants to do, just like everyone else would want that.Ìý The fact that she can’t see, you grow up worrying, you know, how will she end up, how will she cope but she kind of does her own thing.Ìý She’s done all this herself, so, that’s what makes us proud, the fact that she’s so resilient.

Ìý

White

Finally, back to Sirine – there’s a lot at stake isn’t there, I mean if you win anything could happen?

Ìý

Jahangir

Yeah, I know but you know a lot of people actually ask me – how will you feel if you win, what are you going to use the money to do.Ìý Honestly, I don’t really think about that sort of thing.Ìý The fact that I’ve come this far, is already so crazy to me.Ìý In the first audition, we did not think I’d come this far at all.Ìý Literally, I went into the audition and my dad was – quickly go in and let’s go eat lunch.Ìý It was never serious, it was never serious.Ìý And if I were to win – oh my gosh that would be amazing – but the fact that I’ve come this far is incredible to me already.

Ìý

White

Well, many thanks to both of you.Ìý And let’s hear a bit more of Sirine’s performance.

Ìý

Music

Ìý

And that’s it for today.Ìý You can email us at intouch@bbc.co.uk or you can go to our website, that’s bbc.co.uk/intouch from where you can download tonight’s and previous editions of the programme.Ìý From me, Peter White, producer Kev Core and studio manager Mark Ward, goodbye.