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TX:Ìý 24.12.2019Ìý 2040-2100

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PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý Ìý Ìý Ìý ÌýLEE KUMUTATÌý Ìý

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Music

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White

Now this could be fun to control – four musicians in the studio from a variety of genres with one thing in common, apart from music, you’re all visually impaired – well it is In Touch after all.Ìý But is there any truth in that awestruck comment that we often hear, well of course you’re all so musical aren’t you?

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So, at this particularly music filled time of year we thought it would be fun in the last two programmes of 2019 to hear musicians share their experiences and stories of music as a career, as a subject of study, as a love affair, as an obsession and share some of the anecdotes that performance tends to throw up – funny and sad.

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Let’s start with the briefest of self-portraits.

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Louis

My name’s Andre Louis, I’m a keyboard player from London.

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Wilkins

I’m Anne Wilkins and I’m a soprano from Wales.

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Haywood

I’m Shaun Haywood, aka Sublimy, I’m a singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and now beat boxer.

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Hargest

And I’m Liz Hargest, a flute teacher and a performer.

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White

That’s the cast.Ìý Here’s the plan.Ìý Each of the two programmes, we’ll feature two of your careers so far, with the rest of you picking up on some of the themes that they raise with some musical Christmas treats thrown in.Ìý

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Let’s start with you Liz Hargest.Ìý Now no Mozart you, knocking out symphonies at the age of four, you were a late starter.Ìý Just explain.

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Hargest

My parents were very keen for me to take a career that they felt would provide me with security.Ìý So, I became a physiotherapist when I left school.Ìý I had stayed in that career for 20 years but I married and had five children, who all started playing music and I thought oh this is much more fun than being a physio, I think I’m going to change careers.

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White

So, were you – I mean were you musical or was it just that something almost intellectual, something you wanted to do?

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Hargest
I did a bit of piano at school but like everyone I gave it up.Ìý But as soon as I had the flute in my hand it was like my third arm, I just am passionate and love every minute of playing and performing.

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White

And how hard was it to get started?

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Hargest

Well it was hard because it took me over two years to find somebody that would teach me because as soon as I told them I couldn’t see they made an excuse.Ìý I found somebody in the end who believed in me and then I found others who believed in me.

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White

So, I mean that’s intriguing from the start, given what I was saying about everybody thinks, of course, we must be musical – why didn’t people want to teach you because you couldn’t see?

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Hargest

Because they had no concept of braille music and – I’m not really sure, I think they were scared.

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White

Of?

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Hargest

Me.

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White

Just of teaching a blind person?

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Hargest

Yes, I think so.Ìý I think you have to win people over.

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White

And I mean was that something you found a lot – this kind of resistance?

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Hargest

Yes, when I wanted to train to be a Suzuki teacher, I rang up the administrator and she said – how can you possibly teach the flute if you can’t see?Ìý And I said – well, the only way I can explain is if you come and watch me – but I do.

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White

Well, we aren’t so hard to please, you haven’t brought along an orchestra with you but we’re happy for you to audition for us.Ìý What are you going to play for us?

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Hargest

I’m going to play Oh Holy Night.

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Music – Oh Holy Night

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Applause

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White

Liz Hargest, thanks very much indeed, that was great.

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Why did you go into teaching?Ìý Clearly you wanted to start playing but what took you into teaching?

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Hargest

I have a passion to share what I have learnt on the flute with those who can carry it on.Ìý I enjoy education, I just love teaching children.Ìý I taught a student for a term for nothing to see if I could do it – I didn’t charge the parents because I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it.

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White

What about the parents?Ìý You said that people didn’t want to teach you, when you were teaching children did you get that same kind of resistance?

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Hargest

I didn’t really.Ìý I had one student who said – I don’t know how you can teach me if you can’t see but I’d like to have a go.Ìý And she became one of my greatest fans.Ìý Because sometimes parents come into lessons and watch me teach, which I’m happy about, and when I say to a child would you stand on both feet and put your head up – the parents can’t understand how I know that the child is standing on one leg and their head is down.

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White

Well, how do you know?Ìý I can’t understand it either.

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Hargest

Sound, I listen to their sound and the movement of their body.Ìý If they’re on one leg it’s usually swinging, so you can hear a bit of rattle in their clothes and the sound is very different when their head’s up to when their head’s down.Ìý If you talk with your head down it’s a bit like that and when you put your head it’s clear and bright and it’s a little bit the same on flute.

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White

So, do you actually touch them to do this?Ìý I’m interested in what techniques you adopt.

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Hargest

I touch very little but I always ask permission from parents that I do need to touch them, there are certain key points – the right-hand thumb is a key point that has to be in the right place, which I wouldn’t be able to see without touching them.Ìý But I can hear most of the other things, Peter, I can hear when their fingers are a long way from the keys because when they hit the keys, they hit them hard.

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White

Right, Liz, thanks for the moment.Ìý I’m interested in these stereotypes that I mentioned at the beginning.Ìý Can we just pick up on this point of whether there is anything intrinsic in blindness which leads to greater musicality?Ìý I mean it sounds like humbug, we all know it’s humbug but do any of you feel you’ve got an automatic entry into music based on the fact that you’re blind.

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Hargest

I don’t think I have.

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Wilkins

No, definitely not, no.

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White

Shaun?

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Haywood

No, definitely no automatic thing.Ìý I think certainly through the ’80s and the ‘90s specially, there was a lot of money around in the ‘90s image was just such a big thing.Ìý So, besides racism or misogynism or anything new, disabilitism, or whatever you want to call it, it’s still alive and well within the industry I’d say.

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White

But shouldn’t that be actually in your favour in a sense, in the sense that if people think that blind people must be good musicians that ought to be a positive, isn’t it?Ìý I’m surprised perhaps that you think to any extent there was a resistance or that there is the kind of resistance you’ve talked about.

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Hargest

I think you need to turn it round Peter.Ìý I think we are primarily musicians and secondly, we happen to have the disability of being blind.Ìý That’s how I see it.

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Haywood

Totally.Ìý Stevie Wonder’s just Stevie Wonder, he’s not blind, do you know what I mean.

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Wilkins

And to the prove I think I must one of the few blind people who’s failed an oral test in an exam.Ìý So, I think that proves the point that you don’t have this special something, your hearing isn’t almost superhuman, you’re just an ordinary person who has to develop in the same way as everyone else.

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White

So, why do you think that perception is out there then?

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Wilkins

I think possibly people think that because you can’t see you obviously rely on all your other senses and sound is one of the main ones which you would rely on.Ìý So, I think people automatically have that thought.Ìý I mean I was at a workshop about two years ago, took part in a workshop with sighted musicians and I was part of a choir that was got together for the day and we learned a song as we went along and the person standing next to me said – Of course, I suppose you have perfect pitch.Ìý And I said – No, not at all.

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White

Let me bring in Shaun Haywood and I’m interested really how you got involved in music.

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Haywood

Yeah, I was 12 and my dad just saw something in me, there’s no – I don’t come from a musical family anyway.Ìý He took me over to me Uncle Bob, who taught Hammond Organ and he taught me to read music a little bit because I was partially sighted at the time.Ìý So, I learned the fundamentals but I was kind of losing interest and I was about 15 and dad just said – look, you’re not into this no more.Ìý And I said – no, not really.Ìý And he was great about it, he’d wasted all that money.Ìý So, I left the lessons, I felt this sort of relief of going oh I don’t have to play organ and all that.Ìý And then two weeks later, I wrote my first song and then it all made sense of what my relationship to music is.

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White

And did you know you were going to do that?Ìý I mean…

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Haywood

Yes, yes, just knew from just being able to process my thoughts and how I felt that day into a song.Ìý I suppose, looking back now, it’s the psychotherapy of it all.

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White

But did you have this in mind as a career?Ìý Because a lot of people do say – oh it is a career for blind people.Ìý Did you have it mind or was it just something you felt you had to do?

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Haywood

I just had to do it, I just had to write, I had to play, I had to perform, I had to just push it and push it and keep doing it and then the joy at the time, it just drove me on and on.

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White

And on this point about it being assumed that we’re going to be good at it – was it important to you not to use blindness to help or drive your career and opportunities?

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Haywood

Yeah, kind of run away from it in many ways really.Ìý And I was going through that period of partial sight and losing my sight progressively over 10, 15 years and everyone knows if you’ve got to pick up a stick and all that embarrassment as a young person – all those things.Ìý So, I was determined not to look blind in any way.

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White

Would you not have used it if it was going to be useful to you?

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Haywood

No, I just didn’t like it.Ìý I mean – your anecdote there Anne reminded me of one – I worked in the Forge Studio in Oswestry as the inhouse engineer for three or four years and one day the engineer of the Rolling Stones came in, just Saturday morning, and he took my hand, cupped it, stroked it and go – wow, what a pair of ears.Ìý And I was thinking – god, I really should have had them pinned back when I was 14.

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White

[Laughter] Well, Shaun, every Christmas needs a Grinch of course and you have brought your own musical take on the festive season.Ìý Do you want to just introduce it for us?

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Haywood

This is called Always Christmas.

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Music – Always Christmas

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Applause

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White

Not exactly Nine Lessons and Carols but thank you very much.Ìý

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Shaun, what is intriguing, you got out of music, why?

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Haywood

Jaded, is the word, I think, Peter.Ìý I’d done so much in music, I’d always moved and changed, you know, through different instruments and then as my sight got worse I went away and studied and became a sound engineer and then I went off and as I said worked at the Forge and became the inhouse engineer then.Ìý And so, very much into engineering and producing, all that side of it, along with still writing.Ìý And you’re pushing every angle of the industry, you know, learning all the new stuff and I think in a way I’d kind of learnt so much different stuff and tried so many things, I just – it became, I don’t know, not a source of comfort anymore, you know.

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White

So, in the eight years that you weren’t doing it what did you go off and do?

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Haywood

I became a dancer.Ìý I went and studied Salsa, Chatta, modern jive and really, really enjoyed it.Ìý And I think that helped in the subconscious of getting into the groove of music and seeing music from another angle rather than hearing it and going – I know what that chord is – and all this sort of thing.Ìý But unfortunately, bad injuries to my left leg and the third one capped it and I just had to stop dancing.Ìý So, I then went off and became a qigong and Tai Chai instructor.

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White

Right, but you’re back in music now?

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Haywood

Loving it.

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White

What are you doing now?

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Haywood

I’ve now created a guy called Sublimy.Ìý I taught myself to beat box, it was about three and a half years ago, and then started playing electric guitar, which I’d never really done because I just – you know, it’s not my thing.Ìý And bit by bit just started to build this whole thing and it’s took three and a half years for where I am and I’ve currently got 22 original tracks and I’m about to unleash it or whatever.Ìý Or upset people next year – 2020 – the year of the blind man.

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White

And you told us why you got out of music.Ìý What took you back?

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Haywood

You know, I just decided at that point I wasn’t going to be listening to anybody else, I’m just going to do it all my way in the end.

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White

Can I, just finally, in tonight’s programme just ask you think.Ìý You all seem to have been, in a way, marching to the beat of your own drum.Ìý Isn’t music something where you know you’re good at it, where you can actually go your own way.Ìý I mean, Anne, isn’t it something you can make – you know you can do it yourself without taking any notice of what other people are saying to you?

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Wilkins

Yes, yes, I think it is.Ìý I think it does help you to think for yourself in all sorts of ways, not just musical, but in other parts of your life as well.Ìý

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White

Andre, you – I mean in a way you seem a bit more chilled, you don’t sound as if you’ve ever been able to conceive of life without music in a way.

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Louis

I couldn’t, it’s my livelihood, even though I’m not actually really employed by it – I do want to be.Ìý But, yeah, I do live for music, next to my beautiful kids and wife, oh yeah.Ìý But, yeah, music is great and I don’t know what I’d do without it, truthfully.

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White

Right.Ìý Well, it does feel as if we’ve only just started this discussion and it’s time to go but for once we can actually say come back next week because we’re going to be re-joining Liz Hargest, Shaun Haywood, Anne Wilkins and Andre Louise with more on Andre and Anne’s story on New Year’s Eve.Ìý For now, though, really, we want someone to play us out but we’ve deputed Liz to organise you all.Ìý Liz, what are you going to make them do?

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Wilkins

Now we’re going to hear the In Touch orchestra and choir with Joy to the World.

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Music – Joy to the World

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Applause

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White

Happy Christmas.

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All

Happy Christmas.

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[Laughter]

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