91热爆

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.听 BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 91热爆 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

IN TOUCH 鈥� Suing a Charity for Discrimination

TX:听 29.10.2019听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听 LEE KUMUTAT

听

听

White

Good evening. Tonight: visually impaired people are often on the receiving end of help but how does it feel when our attempts to volunteer our help are rejected?听 The NHS trust having to pay compensation to a woman whose blindness was caused by treatment delays.听 And the rise and fall of physiotherapy as a profession for blind people 鈥� we look at the highs and the lows.

听

But first, Keith Jones is a lawyer specialising in EU legislation, so you鈥檇 think he鈥檇 be pretty busy at the moment wouldn鈥檛 you.听 But for reasons he explained to me, from his home in Ebbw Vale in South Wales, he was looking for something else in his life.

听

Jones

At the moment I鈥檓 working from home but my PA keeps insisting on me getting involved in other things outside the home because I鈥檝e also got an ongoing problem with depression.听 One of the things she got me involved with was a charity called Hospice for the Valleys.听 We went and asked them if they could use some volunteers, they said yes.听 And in June I went into their local charity shop in Ebbw Vale and I had an interview and I did say to them, at the time, before we go any further don鈥檛 assume you know what blind people can and can鈥檛 do, just ask me if I can do something rather than assume I can鈥檛.听 And they agreed to that.听 And we went through the interview, looked into what I could and couldn鈥檛 do in the charity shop as a volunteer and the agreement was, at the end of the interview, for me to do the first day the following Tuesday.听 On the Monday, I understand my PA got a message from 鈥� I can鈥檛 remember the guy鈥檚 name 鈥� but he鈥檇 asked her for me not to go in on the Tuesday, they wanted to do a risk assessment.听 And he said 鈥� we cannot allow him to work in the charity shop, it would be too dangerous because of the stairs.听 And bear in mind these are stairs that as a customer I鈥檇 been using for years.

听

White

So, this is a shop that you鈥檙e very familiar with?

听

Jones

Yes.听 And I will say though, ironically enough, these very stairs they were concerned about, I had to go up and down those to the interview.听

听

White

Were you asked about the kind of issues that they said were concerning them, I mean did these come up in the interview?

听

Jones

Yes, we talked about the stairs, that was no problem, we talked about whether I could work behind the counter, that would have been no problem.听 They did say to me 鈥� we would be wary about letting you sort out donations because people often leave dirty clothes or syringes and things in there, we鈥檇 be worried about that.听 I said 鈥� that鈥檚 fair enough.

听

White

But the risk assessment, itself, that did not directly involve you?

听

Jones

I wasn鈥檛 asked any questions, all I know is that some person inside their organisation considered this and presumably they were sighted, so had no experience of being blind anyway.听 The point is, I think, they were worried about liability.听 But as I said to them, as a lawyer myself, I can tell them they would be just as much liable if I fell down the stairs as a customer as I would be with a volunteer.

听

White

What鈥檚 your feeling about this and how it鈥檚 been handled?

听

Jones

I鈥檓 very disappointed.听 I mean it鈥檚 active discrimination.听 And I mean look at it how you will, it is discrimination because by not letting me work there on feeble excuses, it鈥檚 discrimination, if they want to stop me working there well surely they should stop me going in as a customer, as well, which would also be discrimination.

听

White

If they were concerned, what do you think this voluntary organisation should have done?

听

Jones

I think they should have at least given me a chance and then if it didn鈥檛 prove to be satisfactory that鈥檚 fair enough but we鈥檝e had a go.

听

White

Keith Jones.听 Well we鈥檝e contacted Hospice of the Valleys about Keith鈥檚 experience.听 This is what they told us:

听

Statement from Hospice of the Valleys

After an initial interview at the shop staff requested further advice from our HR service, as concerns were raised about our duty of care to Keith in his potential volunteer role.听 The advice we were given was that it would not be deemed safe for the individual to commence voluntary work, highlighting [quote]:听 鈥淭he store walkway and layout is continuously changing depending on your stock, the positioning of sofas and cabinets, volunteers and drivers are constantly carrying items of furniture to and from the store, which places the individual at higher risk of being struck by the furniture being transferred.听 And the welfare facilities are located on the first floor.听 To get to the toilets, for example, the individual would need to pass the shop floors, stairs, sorting areas and kitchen, they could potentially be a number of trip or slip hazards along these routes.鈥�

听

White

And the statement ends:

听

Statement from Hospice of the Valleys

We are currently reviewing our volunteering policies and procedures to ensure that we can offer a flexible and transparent response to the volunteering enquiries we receive.

听

White

So, what does this say to other visually impaired volunteers who might be thinking of offering their services?听

听

Shaun Delaney of the National Council of Voluntary Organisations told me what process potential volunteers should be entitled to expect.

听

Delaney

The process normally starts off with a conversation about what the volunteer will and will not be able to do and the kind of skills or experience that they might be able to bring to the role.听 And any additional needs or any special specific requirements that somebody might have, you would expect those to come out through that conversation.听 But that would be a conversation that would be true for any volunteer.

听

White

Would all volunteers be subject to a risk assessment?听 Is it a requirement?

听

Delaney

Organisations don鈥檛 really have that many requirements under law but one of the requirements that they do have is a duty of care, to make sure that the volunteer or anybody in the organisation doesn鈥檛 come to any harm through the course of that person giving their time.听 Usually the good practice that we鈥檇 recommend to an organisation is that the risk assessment is done as a discussion with that particular volunteer.听 That way you鈥檙e able to talk about those things that might be a risk with the volunteer and work out are they actually risks, is that actually a problem that鈥檚 likely to crop up but also you can have a conversation with that volunteer about what we might be able to do about that.听 I think the discussion is a really great way to do this, especially, as well, if you find that there鈥檚 a risk that鈥檚 slightly more insurmountable.听 So, if there鈥檚 a reason why that person might not be able to volunteer, at least that person was a part of that discussion from the very start.

听

White

So, do they have a specific duty not to discriminate as an employer has?

听

Delaney

Well there鈥檚 been a couple of cases where volunteers have tested this bit of the law.听 The most recent was in 2013, I believe, when the Supreme Court was looking at a case about whether a volunteer could bring a claim under equalities legislation but because there鈥檚 no contract in place, because there鈥檚 no obligation, no exchange of money that actually equalities legislation doesn鈥檛 apply.

听

White

That鈥檚 Shaun Delaney of the National Council of Voluntary Organisations.

听

So, is Keith鈥檚 experience an isolated one?听 Tell us about what鈥檚 happened to you if you鈥檝e offered your services to a voluntary organisation.

听

Now, a Southampton woman who lost most of her sight as the result of delays to her treatment has received more than 拢3 million in compensation.听 The trust in question blames a national shortage of trained ophthalmic consultants.听

听

James Ingham, of 91热爆 South, has been following this story for us and he first told me more about the patient鈥檚 case.

听

Ingham

Well the woman, who鈥檚 in her 30s, went to her optician in June 2016, after she noticed her eyesight worsening.听 Now at a hospital check-up a month later she was diagnosed with glaucoma 鈥� that鈥檚 a condition that damages the optic nerve 鈥� and she was urgently referred to Southampton鈥檚 General Hospital.听 Now clinicians there gave her drops and told her that she鈥檇 need frequent appointments at the eye clinic but she wasn鈥檛 actually seen again for another 10 months.听 And by the time she saw a senior consultant in February last year, well, she鈥檇 gone blind and was told that nothing more could be done.听 Her solicitor is Victoria Hayden.

听

Hayden

Well this was a very young woman with three young children living in a flat.听 She became a prisoner in her own home because she couldn鈥檛 take the children out, she couldn鈥檛 get down the stairs, she couldn鈥檛 cook, she couldn鈥檛 clean, she鈥檚 not been able to work and it has affected the entire family and will do so for the rest of their lives.

听

White

And James, the hospital has admitted liability?

听

Ingham

Well the University Hospital, Southampton NHS Trust, doesn鈥檛 comment on individual cases but the woman鈥檚 lawyer, Victoria Hayden, says that the trust did admit a breach of duty and accepted that if she鈥檇 had surgery some sight could have been saved.听 Now they settled her claim out of court, paying her more than 拢3 million in compensation.

听

Hayden

Well it鈥檚 a complete tragedy.听 There was no need.听 There was no reason why this should have happened.听 Had she been treated timely then she would have some sight loss but she wouldn鈥檛 have been completely blind.听 She would have been able to work, she would have been able to care for her children and she would have been able to live entirely independently, now she鈥檚 not.

听

White

So, is this just an isolated case, tragic as it is, or are more patients experiencing problems in Southampton?

听

Ingham

Well Peter this is far from isolated.听 The trust found, in a review last year, that 16 patients either went blind or suffered sight loss as a result of appointment delays and that鈥檚 just in Southampton alone.听 Its review showed that four and a half thousand patients hadn鈥檛 been seen as quickly as they should have.听 Now the trust has told me it鈥檚 taken a number of steps to address the backlog in follow-up appointments, with all patients now risk assessed to ensure that those most in need are seen at the earliest opportunity.听 But this is not a problem just in Southampton, it is a national problem.听 Acute NHS trusts face growing demand for eye care and that鈥檚 mainly as a result of an ageing population.听 Some figures here paint that very starkly.听 Over the past 10 years there鈥檚 been a 40% increase in eye outpatient clinic attendances and that鈥檚 coupled with a shortage of specialist doctors and consultants.听 The Royal College of Ophthalmologists, which represents them, says that an extra 400 specialist doctors and consultants will be needed over the next two years but at the moment there鈥檚 only funding to train 90 every year.

听

Well the result of that is clear.听 The college carried out a survey of its members which found that more than 20 patients in the UK every month may experience some loss of vision as a result of delays in their treatment.听 And the college told me simply that a tsunami of issues was creating a crisis in ophthalmology.

听

Well the patient in Hampshire, her lawyer says, more needs to be done to stop others losing their sight.

听

Hayden

This problem has been identified since 2014 and we鈥檙e here in 2019 and there is still a significant problem.听 The government needs to put more money into this area of medicine otherwise more people are going to go blind completely unnecessarily.

听

White

And that report by James Ingham.

听

Well we drew the attention of the Department of Health to the Southampton situation and the part, the trust says, a shortage of trained ophthalmic consultants, has played in it.听 In a statement the department told us: 鈥淚t鈥檚 unacceptable for patients to suffer harm as a result of any result of any delays in their care.鈥澨� They say: 鈥淭here are more than 400 extra ophthalmologists employed in our NHS, compared to 2010, and through the NHS long term plan we鈥檙e backing the NHS with an extra 拢33.9 billion a year by 鈥�23-鈥�24.鈥�

听

Now getting work in the health field has never been much of an option for blind people but there is one notable exception 鈥� a double effect of the First World War with the numbers of injured soldiers needing physiotherapists and the number of war blinded ex-servicemen needing a new profession.听 At the time a career which offered security, a decent living and a satisfying job was a real breakthrough.听 And for much of the last century the numbers of blind people relieving pain and getting patients back on their feet after injuries ran into several hundreds.听 My visually impaired brother was one of them.听

听

Well, it鈥檚 a hundred years since the first organisation representing blind physiotherapists was formed but the number of them has dropped sharply over the past 30 years or so.听 Last weekend, the Association of Visually Impaired Chartered Physiotherapists met to celebrate their centenary but with perhaps more than a tinge of regret for the old days.

听

One of its vice-presidents 鈥� Mike Cassidy 鈥� has been telling me how it all began.

听

Cassidy

It was, of course, the year after the end of World War One.听 Prior to that it had been very much a female profession, in fact the Chartered Society was known as 鈥� they were all masseuses rather than masseurs then.听 So, there was suddenly a push to try to train men as physiotherapists.听 Many came back from the war injured, blinded.听 And so, as mores changed men were allowed to touch women.

听

White

So, at its height how many members were there, how many blind physiotherapists were there?

听

Cassidy

Near 400.

听

White

What drew you to it as a profession?

听

Cassidy

Well I always had an interest in medical things anyway and I think, as you remember Peter, I used to ferret around in the library looking for any old braille medical books to have a look through.听 I had to be drawn to it really.听 There was no other option for me, so it would have been horrible if I couldn鈥檛 have done it.听

听

White

But for many people it was almost a go to profession, wasn鈥檛 it?

听

Cassidy

Yes.听 And one of the reasons being that you only had to have five O Levels to get in, in the early days.听 It鈥檚 now a fully graduate profession 鈥� three A Levels plus, high grades 鈥� very, very different.

听

White

What was the training like back then?

听

Cassidy

Well I trained in Great Portland Street.听 We had small groups to be taught, so it was very much almost one to one really.听 We were taught, in those days, massage, electrotherapy, exercise therapy and also gradually, as time went on, we were taught neurological techniques for treating strokes and so on and so forth.

听

White

Why has there been a decline in blind people training as physiotherapists?

听

Cassidy

It became a much less tactile profession; you were expected to much more teaching but by demonstration rather than by touch.听

听

White

And from your own personal point of view were you finding it more difficult towards the end?

听

Cassidy

Gradually, I think mainly because of the increasing amount of documentation you had to undertake and despite the advent of computers it was still difficult, there was a lot of paperwork to do.听 In fact, the ratio of admin time to clinical time was, in the end, I think about 60-40, so really you can see the difference.

听

White

And was there resistance to that change?听 I mean that school, that you told us about, the training school, did people resist that disappearing?

听

Cassidy

I think they felt that if the school disappeared it would certainly be the end of totally blind physiotherapy.听 And I suppose that proved to be.听 And of course, it was again 鈥� it was losing the close community, once that school went people would be scattered round the country. Certainly, initially, there were those who went to the University of East London, so there was a smaller community and there was the physiotherapy support service, set up by the RNIB.听 But gradually the community has been lost.听 So, that鈥檚 why, in a way, that鈥檚 why our little group comes together every so often.听 We still have two courses a year for those who want to undertake either acupuncture or manipulative therapy.

听

White

So, what was the mood at last Saturday鈥檚 get together?

听

Cassidy

Well it was positive still.听 I mean we never want to be negative in front of our younger members who have a job to do, they鈥檙e working hard at it and we don鈥檛 want to see them being at all demoralised.听 I think there will always be some visually impaired people undertaking it.

听

White

But is it the fact that you do now have to have some sight?听 I mean are all your younger members, do they all have some vision?

听

Cassidy

Yes, there hasn鈥檛 been a totally blind person through the system for quite some years now.听 I could never say no totally blind person should be trained, because there may just be the odd one who says 鈥� hey look, I can do this 鈥� and the circumstances are such that they do manage to get through.

听

White

Mike Cassidy.

听

And that鈥檚 it for today.听 You can leave messages with your comments on 0161 836 1338.听 You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk or you can go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch where you can also download tonight鈥檚 and many other previous editions of the programme.

听

That鈥檚 it from me, Peter White, producer Lee Kumutat and the team, goodbye.