91热爆

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4听

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.听 BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 91热爆 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

IN TOUCH 鈥� Medals for Guide Marathon Runners

听

TX:听 22.01.2019听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听听 LEE KUMUTAT

听

White

Good evening.听 Tonight, the blind runners who believe that their sighted guides aren鈥檛 getting the recognition they deserve.听 And a breakthrough for visually impaired children to create their own computer program.

听

Clip

So, if I get into here鈥�

听

Have you tried playing it?

听

Piano playing

听

[Indistinct words]

听

Can we hear it again?

听

White

More on that later.听 But first, over its 38-year history the London Marathon has become one of the capital鈥檚 most popular spectator events.听 This year they鈥檝e had well over 400,000 applications to join the ballot for a place.听 And they鈥檝e earned a deserved reputation for welcoming a huge diversity of athletes, including many competitors with disabilities.听 But some of the 50 visually impaired runners taking part this year are upset that their guides and the work and effort they put in are being taken for granted.听

听

Jane is a blind runner, competing in the London Marathon for the first time.听 She emailed In Touch and the London Marathon organisers with her concerns.

听

Jane

I wanted to email to express my disappointment towards the organisers of the London Marathon.听 I recently learnt that my guide runner will not receive a medal upon, all being well, completing the London Marathon with me.听 London Marathon organisers told me that because they鈥檙e giving my guide a free place they will not receive a medal.听 I find this very disappointing given that I would not be able to run the race without my guide.听 Furthermore, my guide is giving up their time and making a commitment involving months of training beforehand and on the day of the race.听 Guide and runner are a team and although my guide says he鈥檚 not running the race with me to get a medal, I feel his dedication should be recognised.

听

It was at the 2012 Paralympics that guide runners were, for the first time, given medals alongside those they guided in recognition of their vital role.听 From a more personal perspective, I worry that the London Marathon鈥檚 current policy as one of the most well-known races in the world will hinder future guide runner recruitment.听 In all of my previous races my guides either received or were offered the opportunity to obtain medals, as well as a time chip.

听

White

And she鈥檚 not alone.听 Our reporter, Dave Williams, has been talking to a runner/guide combination who also think that the current policy is unfair.

听

Simpson

I鈥檓 Louise Simpson, I鈥檝e been running for 10 years, I鈥檝e done 18 marathons and this will be my second London Marathon.

听

Kerry

Hi, I鈥檓 Kerry.听 I鈥檝e been running for seven years, run 12 marathons and yeah, this, like Louise, this will be my second time doing the London but the first time I鈥檝e ever guided.

听

Williams

Just for people who don鈥檛 know, how does it work 鈥� you鈥檙e blind and you鈥檙e running with a sighted person?

听

Simpson

I hold the guide鈥檚 right arm, as if you do when you鈥檙e sighted guide walking, some people use tethers but I get a lot more information from the arm.

听

Williams

When you get to the end of the marathon and you receive a medal for completing it, presumably, what happens then in terms of your guide 鈥� are they acknowledged in any way?

听

Simpson

Yeah, so the guide usually gets a free place and the guide will get a medal, same as I would.听 It鈥檚 just a given that 鈥� understanding 鈥� that the guide will get the medal.

听

Williams

Last time you ran London Marathon your guide then, which wasn鈥檛 Kerry, they got a medal on that occasion?

听

Simpson

He did, yeah.

听

Williams

Kerry, I鈥檓 going to come to you.听 What would you want to achieve, what would success look like for you as a guide runner?

听

Kerry

Well when we both get over the finish line and we鈥檙e still smiling.

听

Williams

Louise, just explain for me what you understand to be the policy in respect of medals by London Marathon.

听

Simpson

The policy is that guide runners have never officially received medals.听 If a guide has received a medal it鈥檚 only because the volunteers have given them out.

听

Williams

And how do you feel about that?

听

Simpson

I鈥檓 disappointed, frustrated and hope that the London Marathon events change this policy.听 I couldn鈥檛 do it without a guide runner and they have done the same training that I鈥檝e done and done the same race, they鈥檝e done the same mileage and therefore should be recognised for that, especially as they鈥檙e the one that鈥檚 given up their time to help me.

听

Williams

Kerry, do you want a medal?

听

Kerry

It鈥檚 not about the medal, I think it鈥檚 the bigger picture of what that鈥檚 actually saying and I must say out of all the marathons I鈥檝e run when I did do London before and I was running for a charity you鈥檙e really blown away, you know, you only have to go to a marathon, whether you鈥檙e participating or supporting, to be restored in human faith, I guess, and all the determination and stuff.听 And I just think it鈥檚 a poor stand from London Marathon that they鈥檙e not actually supporting the bigger picture here.

听

White

Well, we naturally contacted London Marathon鈥檚 organisers and invited them on to today鈥檚 programme to explain the situation.听 They told us that there was a board meeting tomorrow, where the rules governing guides and medals would be reconsidered.听 But this statement explains the current situation and it鈥檚 also been posted on their website.

听

London Marathon statement

Anyone who has a confirmed place in the London Marathon and requires a guide or support runner can apply for a free of charge place for their guide or support runner.听 The free of charge place means they do not get a timing chip or medal but they get a guide runner鈥檚 special bib and a finisher goodie bag, including the finisher t-shirt.听 We know that guide and support runners receive a medal at the finish line, as our wonderful volunteers hand out over 40,000 medals on the day, and we do not police the official rule.听 Since guidance support runners are not official participants their place is withdrawn if the runner they鈥檙e supporting has to pull out before the start of the race.听 If they were official participants this rule could not apply and we could have the situation where people who have gained a place as a support or guide runner are participating without their runner.听 We do continually review every aspect of the London Marathon and our policies and procedures.听 This is an ongoing year-round process and includes how we can best support anyone with a disability to complete the event.

听

And we鈥檙e happy to extend an invitation to the organisers to come on next week鈥檚 programme to tell us the outcome of tomorrow鈥檚 board meeting.

听

Now, learning to program computers, or coding, as it鈥檚 known, is becoming an essential skill and one that鈥檚 being taught these days in primary schools.听 But it presents particular challenges for visually impaired children and now there鈥檚 a new teaching aid, a physical computer coding language, that turns programming into a tactile experience.听

听

The 91热爆鈥檚 technology correspondent, Rory Cellan-Jones, can tell us more about it.

听

Cellan-Jones

Yeah, Peter, here鈥檚 the issue with visually impaired children learning computer programming, which is now part of the primary school curriculum in England.听 The usual way of getting started is a program called Scratch.听 Now that involves moving coloured blocks around a screen.听 And that means it鈥檚 鈥� well pretty inaccessible.听 So, Microsoft has developed a physical version of that 鈥� little pods which you join together to make a program.听 It鈥檚 developed it in conjunction and tested it with lots of young people, including 12-year-old Theo Holroyd from Kings College School in Cambridge and he鈥檚 been telling me all about it.

听

Holroyd

Well it鈥檚 called Code Jumper and it鈥檚 a physical program system for blind people, so that they can understood the context of coding, so that they can then go off and do other coding which is accessible.

听

Cellan-Jones

Now you鈥檝e got a series of little pods in front of you with wires, what do you do with them?

听

Holroyd

Well you plug them into each other and you turn the dials to adjust the sound, which that particular pod is programmed to play.听 And then all the pods connect to the hub.听 Then you push a button on the hub and it plays your program that you鈥檝e quoted.

听

Cellan-Jones

So, in this school and in lots of schools, children start off with something called Scratch, which is a visual programming language.听 What鈥檚 the problem with that for you?

听

Holroyd

Well, it鈥檚 still like dragging and dropping pictures and basically if you tried to do it you鈥檇 end up with nothing in your program because you can鈥檛 do anything.

听

Cellan-Jones

So, that wasn鈥檛 working for you but this鈥�

听

Holroyd

I didn鈥檛 even try it because I knew it wouldn鈥檛 work.听 It鈥檚 purely pictures.

听

Cellan-Jones

How big a difference, then, has this made?

听

Holroyd

Huge.

听

Cellan-Jones

And what鈥檚 that enabled you to do?

听

Holroyd

Well, from not being able to code at all, it鈥檚 enabled me to understand all these concepts, then be able to move on to Python which is accessible.

听

Cellan-Jones

And what do you hope to do now with coding, how important is it that you鈥檙e learning coding?

听

Holroyd

Well it鈥檚 really important to me that I鈥檓 learning coding because I鈥檓 really keen to make mainstream products such as iPhones and computers more accessible to blind people and also create apps for them which blind people will like and be able to use for important purposes.

听

Cellan-Jones

Would you like to have a career in technology then?

听

Holroyd

Definitely.

听

White

He鈥檚 halfway there already by the sound of it.听 That鈥檚 Theo Holroyd.

听

So, Rory, what鈥檚 the bigger picture, what does Microsoft hope to achieve?

听

Cellan-Jones

Well this whole idea comes from a Microsoft research scientist, in their Cambridge lab, she鈥檚 called Cecily Morrison and a few years ago she gave birth to a blind child and she started thinking about what could be done to make coding more accessible for children.听 She started working on this project.听 It鈥檚 come to fruition.听 It鈥檚 going to be rolled out around the world eventually and I asked her what she hoped the impact of it would be.

听

Morrison

My hope is that we can inspire and make accessible coding for all blind and low-vision children but more broadly than that, we created something that was inclusive of children regardless of their level of vision.听 So, we don鈥檛 want to take these blind and low-vision children out of their mainstream classes to code, but rather give them a tool that all of the children in their class and they too can use together, so they can code together with their sighted peers.

听

White

So, what happens next Rory?

听

Cellan-Jones

Well, this is being shown off tomorrow at a big technology in education fair in London and then it鈥檚 going to be rolled out around the world gradually.听 So, the idea is it鈥檚 going to be made available to schools around the world and play its part in really upping the level of computer coding education for all children 鈥� visually impaired and otherwise.

听

Now they鈥檝e tried this out with lots of children, they鈥檝e got a lot of feedback, and Cecily told me what the reaction had been.

听

Morrison

We saw an incredible variety of responses to it but all very positive.听 And perhaps the most consistent finding across the cohort was that we were able to substantially rise their self-efficacy.听 What I mean by that is their belief in their ability to code across the entire cohort.听 But we also saw some really beautiful, perhaps more personal, moments, so children who made their first friends by coding with other sighted children in their schools or children who found it difficult to concentrate on their lessons were able to concentrate on Code Jumper for very long periods of time.

听

White

Cecily Morrison ending that report from Rory Cellan-Jones.

听

And later this week Apple is also due to announce an accessible coding tool aimed at enabling visually impaired students to create programs on equal terms.

听

Now one listener who may have solved a technological problem of her own since contacting us is Annie Rimmer.听 Annie complained to us that she鈥檇 tried to use the National Lottery鈥檚 app to buy lottery tickets and had found it inaccessible for visually impaired people.听 But more to the point, she was disappointed by their manner.听 When she reported the problem to them, she鈥檇 been told that it wasn鈥檛 their responsibility and that there was nothing they could do about it.

听

Well since coming on to In Touch she explained that things had changed.

听

Rimmer

I spoke to Jo Button from Camelot, who鈥檚 the Head of Digital, last week, following the programme and she did give me a very fulsome and genuine apology for what had happened.听 And also reassured me that they鈥檙e very keen to improve their app and that they鈥檙e going to rollout a new version,听 hopefully in March, and that they鈥檙e really working on accessibility, that it鈥檚 going to be deeply embedded into the new app, so that there shouldn鈥檛 be any of the problems that I鈥檝e encounter in the future and that it鈥檚 going to be properly tested before they roll it out, which was good news.听 She was also able to reassure me that there鈥檚 going to be better information and training of customer service agents, so that if anybody phones in with a problem in the future that they would get a different response and that it would be passed on to the appropriate people to deal with the problem.

听

So, all in all, I was really pleased with that.听 So, that鈥檚 a good outcome.听 Thanks everybody there.

听

White

And we did again invite National Lotteries on to the programme to tell us about their plans.听 That invitation still stands.

听

And we鈥檝e had this email from Nadia Bashoo, which I must say struck a chord with me.听 She says: 鈥淔or the past seven months I鈥檝e been going to my local hospital for glaucoma treatment, despite the fact that I was born with no vision at all and my notes must surely reflect that, the nurses always insist on doing a vision test before I鈥檓 allowed to see the doctor.听 On my last visit I refused to allow the test and was allowed to speak to the eye doctor, who assured me I could skip the test.听 And then when I was shown into the consulting room proceeded to wave their hand in front of my face and asked if I could see it.听 I鈥檝e even heard of people with prosthetic eyes being asked to read eye charts.听 Eye appointments are stressful enough, surely, without so-called carers making it all worse.鈥�

听

Any eye specialists out there like to explain why an eye test is required for totally blind patients?听 Nadia and I would like to know.

听

And finally, nearly two years ago now Mike Kelly emailed us with his concerns over his approaching retirement.听 He鈥檇 originally trained as an architect but started to lose his sight in his 30s.听 At the time of his retirement he was working at GCHQ.听 He was fretting about how he鈥檇 fill his time but more specifically how he would go about finding activities to get involved with as a visually impaired person.听 And would his skillset be up for the challenge.

听

So, as we often wonder on this programme, what happened next?听 We invited Mike back into our Gloucester studio to tell us.

听

Kelly

It was strange, it felt like a long holiday and I was waiting to go back to work.听 It did take a bit of time to adjust.听 I actually thought that I鈥檇 still be getting up at ten to six every morning and I鈥檇 be downstairs dressed, having gulped a cup of tea at 7 o鈥檆lock in the morning, ready to go.听 But it鈥檚 great just having time for a second cup of tea, going for a quick walk around the block with the dog and just sort of taking stock of the morning.

听

White

How long did that take?

听

Kelly

Maybe three or four months to actually kind of realise that I didn鈥檛 have to learn lots of new things and please lots of new people, that I had much more time for myself, to spend more time doing the things I liked and I had still time left over to do other things as well.

听

White

So, what have you been doing?

听

Kelly

Well some of it鈥檚 not much because I鈥檝e been sitting around more.听 I鈥檓 on the local town council in our little town of Nailsworth, which is just south of Stroud, so I鈥檝e been getting more and more involved with community activities through the council, which is great, I enjoy that.听 Part of that is that I鈥檓 using my old skills with my training as an architect, back to sort of the 1980s, because we鈥檙e going to be looking at our heritage stock and our conservation area and managing all the buildings, so I鈥檒l be getting more involved in those sorts of activities.听 Another thing I do with my wife, Wendy, we do more trips to National Trust houses and again I鈥檓 interested in the buildings and the gardens and so on.听 I鈥檓 doing more walking than I used to, with my dog Danny, but also walking over the Cotswolds.听 Music鈥檚 always been an interest, so I鈥檓 spending more time now going to concerts 鈥� folk and classical concerts.

听

White

One of the things you were worried about was, in a way, how you would be welcomed if you tried to do new things.听 How has that worked?

听

Kelly

Still to find out, I鈥檓 afraid.

听

White

Do you mean you鈥檙e doing more of the things you were doing rather than taking on new things?

听

Kelly

Yeah, I have to confess I am really, yeah.听 There鈥檚 still more things in the pipeline but I鈥檒l do them when I鈥檓 ready.听 Cooking鈥檚 lined up for some time, and I would like to do some voluntary work for the National Trust as well.

听

White

Yeah, that was something that you were very keen on doing.听 You鈥檝e not done it yet.

听

Kelly

Perhaps not quite so keen now.听 I鈥檓 afraid I鈥檓 just enjoying myself too much really, at the moment, but yeah, I will get cracking with it soon.听 But I just don鈥檛 feel the sense of urgency that I did a year and a half ago.

听

White

One of the things you said you wanted to do was to be more independent and yet, delightfully in a way, you鈥檙e obviously also doing quite a lot of things with Wendy, your wife, and perhaps other people.听 Do you think that is something you do need to do, that you would like to do?

听

Kelly

Yeah, I do rely very, very much on Wendy and I know I shouldn鈥檛.听 I鈥檓 afraid to say I don鈥檛 even draw money out of the bank at the moment, I need to be able to deal with cash.听 I鈥檇 like to do shopping as well, I鈥檓 afraid I haven鈥檛 touched any of these things yet.听 But they鈥檙e very nearly at the top of the list to do, yes, so I will crack on with those.

听

White

Well we haven鈥檛 got you on to tell you off but what鈥�

听

Kelly

No, I know, no.

听

White

鈥�would it take, do you 鈥� because you know those are things, I guess you didn鈥檛 do them because you were at work and you could rely on someone else to do it, but what would it take to give you that shove?

听

Kelly

Probably being told to do it.听 I鈥檓 doing a little bit more around the house at the moment 鈥� I clean the bathroom, make the bed, do the ironing 鈥� and I wasn鈥檛 doing those before, so I鈥檝e made a bit of a start.

听

White

That was Mike Kelly.听 And we鈥檇 love your requests about how other stories that we鈥檝e featured over the past couple of years have moved on.听 Suggestions and requests please.听

听

And that鈥檚 it for today.听 You can contact the programme for 24 hours after we end tonight on 0800 044 044 or email intouch@bbc.co.uk.听 And you can click on contact us on our website.听 From me, Peter White, producer Lee Kumutat and the team, goodbye.

听