91Èȱ¬

I have to say that I am pleased with the response of the police. I live Hamburg and the police here would do exactly the same thing. They respond strongly and nip the trouble in the bud as quickly and admittedly brutally as possible. But that sends out a message that the next time something is going to start, get off side. Don't go for safety in numbers. If you aren't part of that crowd you will generally be left alone.

As long as u got ur phone cover back I don't see a problem. These events no matter how small, have to be stamped out.

Well having just come back from both england games I saw no trouble bar perhaps a little pre-match tension in the air. Seen as though england are already through i find your scenario somewhat implausable. If you weren't causing trouble you wouldnt have been knocked to the floor, the police have been given special training to deal with fans. 75,000 people were at the frankfurt game and it was mostly peaceful. Perhaps you have never been to such an event before and are blowing things out of proportion somewhat.

"Don't go for safety in numbers. If you aren't part of that crowd you will generally be left alone."

What rubbish!

If your standing alone then your not gonna get beaten up but if your stuck in a crowd or in a group then you can expect a beating! No. I don't have the answer, but there are always innocent bystanders involved as well...who don't deserve a riot batton

the only thing the press can report is minor things such as a table and chairs broken in the first match, nothing in nuremburg except gangs of press roaming the streets looking for a kick off because there bored. the english fans will be singled out for harsh treatment because we are still looked on germany as the hooligan mob to fear in europe when we have done more than any nation to stamp it out(banning orders)four arrests do not make it a riot keep it real guys.
cheers and keep the faith

It seems the police have done a respectful job of keeping things in order so far with no major issues - the biggest being when their own fans fought with the Polish. I believe your story is somewhat 'over-blown' and for a somewhat 'sore' subject is a little silly. On the football side of things, I really hope England don't lose today - I don’t think many of you out there have weighed things up realistically.. Sweden are a tough team and this will be a hard game - will everyone stop thinking its going to be a walk in the park and a guaranteed victory for us - if we lose you may not be as shocked if you prepare yourself! Don’t forget – England are renound for doing things the hard way!

mmm maybe its not just the Press but also German Riot Police who was bored n looking for it to Kick Off!!

Please Remember Folks that an average Friday/Saturday night in any town in the uk with football and non football fans has as much if not more trouble lets not get carried away in this incident!!

to be honest it half served you right...if there is trouble and "RIOT POLICE" step in then clear the way. There not called riot police for no reason, relentless they may have been but thats how they are trained to be so there is zero tolerance. Fair enough they should knock you to the floor when your searching for your phone cover but instead of concentration on recording the whole event you should have got away from all the trouble to a safe spot

You have to give the police credit.

It is as if the media are chomping for some action off the field to report on.

"...there are always innocent bystanders involved as well... who don't deserve a riot baton."

surely no one thinks that the German police choose to resort to riot gear... the TV media, and this blog, immediately jump to the defence of the fans and are looking for any excuse to blame heavy-handed policing for the slightest trouble.
Having only recently read the blog "We love the Germans" by Laura Smith-Spark, which had 69 gushing comments attached, all saying what a friendly spirit there is around the cities involved; are we now to believe that the police are out to stir up the English fans (not the Dutch or Poles or Spanish or any others!?)so as to put themselves and their own towns and citizens in danger?
There is no doubt that major incidents are caused by a tiny minority of a***holes who need to prove there manhood by goading smaller groups of people, whilst being surrounded by their 'mates', however, there is a much wider problem; that of the antaganistic manner of a far greater number of English fans, who seem unable, when in groups, to show the proper respect to their opposition, or (as seems to be the case here) their hosts, and instead resort to slagging them off, and/or disregard the feelings of the residents of the place they are visiting... Confidence doesn't have to be arrogance... if you believe your team will win, that's great, but why denigrate the other teams? This is unfriendly, causes a bad atmosphere and leads to aggression, which, quite rightly, should be quashed - as severely as deemed necessary - by the police.

Well done to the Police, I was also in Portugal 2004, when everyone was praising the England fans but in reality they were creating havoc in the Algarve and also in Lisbon. On the night before the Portugal game there were hundreds of them in the bars by the Marina, chanting racist songs and throwing bottles etc. The press is trying to create an image of non-violence and diminuish the fights but in reality it's happening. The images on TV from last night must have been terrifying to the German locals seeing their town invaded by louts.

Well done to the Police, I was also in Portugal 2004, when everyone was praising the England fans but in reality they were creating havoc in the Algarve and also in Lisbon. On the night before the Portugal game there were hundreds of them in the bars by the Marina, chanting racist songs and throwing bottles etc. The press is trying to create an image of non-violence and diminuish the fights but in reality it's happening. The images on TV from last night must have been terrifying to the German locals seeing their town invaded by louts.

I find it amusing that if it was any other country, the 91Èȱ¬ report would call it a fight or a brawl or a battle - but on this occassion they stick to calling it a skirmish, being England fans and such.

Well done to the Police, I was also in Portugal 2004, when everyone was praising the England fans but in reality they were creating havoc in the Algarve and also in Lisbon. On the night before the Portugal game there were hundreds of them in the bars by the Marina, chanting racist songs and throwing bottles etc. The press is trying to create an image of non-violence and diminuish the fights but in reality it's happening. The images on TV from last night must have been terrifying to the German locals seeing their town invaded by louts.

If I read the news bit correctly, this was a self-ignited fight among England fans. Police moved in to protect the (admittedly stupid) statue climber and to prevent an escalation of events. They succeeded.
The other lesson to be learned here: If there is a riot about to start, don't move towards it. If you do, don't complain to get "knocked over".

Ok, here is what the Cologne local tabloid "Kölner Express" says about it:

Rampage by drunk fans

On the eve of the England vs. Sweden match some minor incidents in downtown Cologne were reported.

Late Monday evening some drunk football fans were rioting around the Alter Markt area. The predominently English fans were caught throwing glass bottles.

Eight fans, one German and one Swede being among them, had to be taken into custody but could be released later on that night. Only one Englishman was arrested for throwing glass bottles.

The riots were obviously caused by one English fan who was about to hoist the English flag upon the Jan-Van-Werth statue. When he fell of the statue and police came to help him this got misinterpreted by surrounding English fans who started to aggressively protest against the policemen. Bottles were thrown and a total of 14 policemen were hurt - some seriously.

I walked thought Utrecht station on Monday morning at about 10:30am. There were four guys dressed in all white and with the England logo on there shirts! I was quite pleased to see them until I noticed one had hooligans on his shirt and a one of the others had a sort of nuclear fall out suit on. I was just behind them as they got to the (closed) off licence.. And then realised they were not speaking English! Not sure if it was Dutch either.. (Hope not Swedish)

Some of these comments disgust me. "If not part of group you're left alone".

Shut up mate. You may feel safe in your suburban pub singing "Coming 91Èȱ¬" to the TV screens in your face paint, but for real fans who follow their teams all over the place know the score.

If I had a quid for every clump I've taken I'd be a rich man. I never once caused trouble incidently.

From what I can tell from the various accounts I've read, it started with one man coming up with one of those drunken, "It seemed like a good idea at the time" moments, accidentally dropping a bottle, people mistaking this for aggression and retaliating, and police moving in to firmly quell the situation before it escalated. From there, things got out of hand, but were swiftly put down again.

It hardly sounds like a riot or police brutality - there were 4 arrests, not 400, and politely asking people to cease and desist would hardly have been effective, would it? I've not heard reports of hordes smashing windows or anything either, so if it was a riot, it really was a feeble effort!

Let the police deal with the leftovers, and in the meantime let's get back to the football, shall we?

i was there last night in alter markt and for the record think the police acted brilliantly.
the problems started when a swedish guy tried to climb up the statue with the english (the flag of st. george already being at the top), he was promptly knocked off, taking down 2 english with him...they looked pretty hurt, a friend and i alerted the police to the injured, they came over with ambulance crew, the english fans totally misinterpereted the oncoming police intentions ´scattered´and turned to pelt them with glass bottles, with which many were hit, including myself.
the police quiet rightly ´nipped it in the bud´ by battering the mob responsible, a deserved battering, they then cordoned off the square not allowing any fans back to cause anymore trouble. the problem was entirely the english fans fault (however small the minority was) and the response was just and effective. I really hope the atmosphere is alot better today, up until that point the whole world cup has been brilliant (apart from the fat hooligan who stole my flag and threatened to stab me in frankfurt, cheers mate), viva la england.

If the press did'nt report on every minor incident as if world war 3 had just started there would be less trouble everywhere. How come the press always seem to be the fist ones to the scene, or have instant first hand eyewitness accounts. If you have ever seen "Drop the dead donkey" you will now exactly how the news is twisted to give them something sensational to give there editors, to warrant them being there getting p.....d.

Reporters have to fill column inches and sensationalising a relatively small incident is an easy way for a lazy reporter to do just that. They are a disgrace to their profession.

Lets not forget however, if you take a large group of aggressive, drunk blokes - fired up by misplaced patriotism, it does not take much of a spark to kick things off. It is also pretty intimidating for anyone simply passing by.

This problem is not limited to English fans though, and as mentioned earlier, the FA, English Police and the English Supporters organisation have done more than anyone to wipe out this element.

I was also in Portugal for Euro 2004 and was there start to finish. I purpousefully did not stay in the Algarve, but mingled with every nation in Ericeia on the Gold Coast near Lisbon. I did not see an ounce of trouble and infact the English fans were praised for arranging a number of events benefitting local charities.

Funnily enough this was not spread all over the front pages of your super soaraway Sun...

Yet again it is england fans who are causing trouble.

tapsumbong

"typical english hooligans, always causing trouble"

Nice to see you don't believe everything you read in the press and are not blinkered by ignorance like the polititians who cling to the bandwagon in order to claim some righteous ticket and appeal to the rest of the blinkered masses who beleive everything they read without question.

Hooligans, by definition will cause trouble, that's why we call them hooligans. Hooliganism is not a condition monopolised by the English (although we have history we cannot be proud of in this area) - in fact if you compare the 'incidents' in Germany there are bigger and more violent groups of idiots out there.

England has made more progress and spent more effort tackling hooliganism than any other nation - and rightly so. Incidents are becoming more and more isolated and the press have to resort to blowing things out of proprtion and manufacturing riots. The press do their best to raise the temperature an incite problems and actually undo all of the good work that other organisations are completing.

I don't remember seeing any burning towns in Portugal when they knocked us out of the Euros - personally, I left the stadium, went to a local bar and helped the Portuguese celebrate - took the ribbing in good humour and made a lot of friends. I think my England shirt is still on the wall of the bar.

Typical English Fans. Cant take youse anywhere.

Yet again I am hearing about riots, violence and such. To be honest, I'd rather see video footage of these events (recorded by mobile phones if you like), view the footage and then make a decision whether or not the Police over reacted or the fans were out of order, etc. In this day and age of modern tech I see no reason for this to happen, unless the proprietor of this website really does have a hidden agenda.

The story is definitely overblown. According to German and International Media bottles and stones were thrown at police officers and some of them have been hurt so badly that they could not continue their service...

That was the reason for the police action and it is justified...

I'm German, I was there since I live in the area and I think it is totally irresponsible to quote eye-witnesses without providing a complete picture on the situation.

Yet again the Welsh aren't in the World Cup...if you want to get stereotypical Jonesy....

"Yet again it is England fans causing trouble"?

What are you talking about? So far, three German cities have hosted over 150,000 English fans peacefully and in a party spirit. 1 minor incident and the press are all over it. Where were the screaming headlines when over 250 fans were arrested in clashes at the Germany v Poland game?? England fans abroad have tried hard to rid themselves of this tag and are deservedly making friends, don't lets let a few idiots (and I include in that group people who are overreacting to this) reverse this trend.

weeman - you ask where the headlines were for the Poland and Germany clashes. It was all over Sky News, but you wouldn't expect ITV and 91Èȱ¬ to really be interested in that - after all, it doesn't involve England. If England aren't involved they don't generally care, same applies to the tabloids too! That's why there were no headlines for te Germans and Poles clashing.

The media only care if it's about England - be it good news or bad news. I don't see folk complaining that almost every game broadcasted by the 91Èȱ¬ AND ITV are talking about England even if they have absolutely nothing to do with the game that's being broadcasted. But that's a whole different matter - expect more violence if England are paired with the likes of Germany or Italy in later rounds, if they should make it that far.

I've just got back from Germany where i saw Holland vs Ivory Coast. Why can't England fans be like the Dutch fans? They were all drunk but there were no aggressive vibes in the air. It was good natured and everyone was merry. English people on a collective boozing session always end up being rowdy and direspectful to everything around them. Good behaviour shoudn't be praised, it is a duty, especially when you are abroad.

It's a fact of life when it comes to football. If you're out with a large group of supporters (drinking?) and a small minority kick off, the police are likely to take a harsh line, especially in such a global event. What do you expect them to do? I'm not condoning it, far from it, but it's a risk you take and every english football fan is aware of it. If you don't want to take that risk, stay out of the large groups where it's likely to happen and go elsewhere.

The last offical England song was sung by Ant and Dec - who had previously released a song provoking football violence call "lets get ready to Rhumble", its almost as if the FA are condoning these event.

.....in my view the group stages always pass by peacefully and it won't be until the latter stages of the tournament or when England are finally defeated and on their way home the trouble will start. I remember Euro 96 and everything was fine until we lost on pens to the Germans...watch out those who drive VW's!

What I cannot understand is the mentality of someone who, upon seeing riot police, feels it necessary to hurl beer bottles, rocks and abuse at them. From the comments above, it seems that the police moved in prudently to (a) render assistance to those who had been injured by the foolish antics of a few, and that the police were further justified in the tactics used by (b) the likelihood that the usual gang of trouble-makers that screws the party up for the rest would react negatively by trying to take on the police. I had to laugh when I read comments such as "Stand your ground" or "...we'll finish it" reported from "witnesses" or participants in the trouble. This is not Waterloo, The Somme, or The Battle of the Rhine, nor is it some stand against a repressive regime or an act of justified revolution. It's a sporting event, it's supposed to be FUN, and the expectation is that everyone behaves themselves and serves as ambassadors for their country!

So far, it would appear that the overwhelming majority of English fans have behaved very well, and that substantial improvements have been made to reduce hooliganism. Still, the police have every reason to be twitchy, and the blogger has to go no further than re-read his comments to understand why.

That being said, COME ON ENGLAND!

I am a bit surprised to read this, as the big German newspapers have not even reported this incident. Obviously they found it to be no big deal and that's strange because usually they are not less interested in such headlines than the English press is. That makes me tend to think that this incident was a mere misunderstanding. It seems as if the English fans misunderstood a police action and the police overreacted a bit - or am I wrong?

Just remember 14 policemen injured.
Stop bleating about being picked on by the police. What do you expect to happen ?

I am a Canadian who loves football - yes that's possible. Having seen the pictures from Cologne last night I want to say that what looks like the best World Cup party ever is in danger of getting spoiled by the same kind of England fans we've seen so many times on TV screens in the US and Canada. "England football supporter" has become a by-word for Hooligan and is used interchangeably across the Atlantic - most of you will agree, for some reason, Brazilian supporter has a different ring.

It's very unfortunate, that England fans are often easily reckognizable not only by the St. George's Cross but by their disrespectful chants and intimidating attitude towards other nationalities - I find it hard to believe that some understand this as a celebration of their team.

In the light of football hooliganism, a lot of criticism is directed towards English redtop newspapers as they endorse negative sentiments about foreigners and in particular Britain's neighboring nations. But could it be that there is demand from a certain one-dimensional mind which the English newsmedia quite happily supplies?

It would be a shame if it was just to good to be true to see England fans refraining from throwing chairs and bottles this time round. Of course, Football hooliganism isn't solely an English problem, Germany, Italy Poland, the Netherlands and Turkey have their fare share of troublemakers. However, their seems to be an underlying and much more fundamental issue on how a significant proportion of people in England view their relation with other nations.

I hope England stays in the tournament for long enough for their fans to demonstrate that the English get along with others.

It is very good to know that German police are very responsible to the people. English fans are a bit of more crazy to football and their stars. However, nothing is wrong here. It is all about attraction of football. Sometimes it seems annoying to the police as they were assigned to keep the discipline.
Thanks Joe for sharing your experience.

Why is it that English cannot handle their drink. I returned to the UK 4 years ago after 20 years living in Southern Africa. During that time I toured Africa and Europe extensively and hardly ever saw the drunken behaviour that one sees every weekend in English towns and cities. In fact the aftermath of the first England game was chaotic in the town I live in. People were drinking hours before and after the game, the police sirens were heard constantly and drunken idiots were still chanting and fighting at 2 a.m. on Sunday morning. Hell, this was a celebration of England winning! DOn't tell me that it isn't just the English. I've had a drink in bars from Sao Paulo to Bangkok and never seen this behaviour from locals.

Hooligan Watch Scotland note the following.
1. The English fans do undoubtedly seem to be making a genuine effort for the time being to get on with fellow fans. I accept that the majority are similar to any other bumch of fans, take too much drink, act noisily, shake hands with strangers, love the buzz, and go home to bed to do it again the next day.
2. However the English "demons" are still there among a group, far larger than the "small minority" of hooligans. Disrespect...arrogant and offensive behaviour....crass zenophobia etc and more than one of the contributers to this address have noted this. STAMP that out and enjoy the mixture of cultures. Smile, don't snarl and keep your own hooligans under control.
3.You blame everyone else... German Police.... other fans....Media....small minorities....too much drink and sun, but never yourselves. Its up to you to act as though your personal integrity was at stake... as it surely is while in foreign parts.
4. No one wants to see the headlines so many people expect of you. Just ordinary behaviour will not cause trouble and create such headlines. Indeed you may be surprised by the lack of adverse reporting on mainstream UK media channels.
5.Make friends not enemies!!!. That might help your team.

Some of the comments on here are unbelievable. "Typical English fans"? "Once again, it's the English"?

How many English fans have been arrested among the total so far? Last I heard before this incident, it was 39 in 2500, and most of those were for being drunk and disorderly. Hardly a figure that implies we're a band of thugs, is it?

And to think, just yesterday we were so happily discussing how so many stereotypes are fading away during this world cup...

It looks like it doesn't matter how well the rest of us behave - as long as there's an idiotic minority (and believe me, the rest of us would LOVE to be rid of them), we're all going to be labelled the same by some people. I'm just glad they're not in charge of the German policing!

I'm tired of all this automatically blaming the English football fans for any possible ruination of an event.

HAVE A LOOK AT NEWS FOOTAGE AND NEWS ARTICLES IN GERMANY THIS YEAR FOR GERMAN, POLISH & DUTCH HOOLIGANS. YOU WILL FINF THERE ARE FAR MORE THAN ENGLISH ONES.

And, as far as the Canadian above is concerned, he needs to get more than one dimensional and look to other nations hooligans as well.

The fact of the matter is that there are idiotic morons in any nation. It just depends on which ones you want to identify and advertise - namely, just the English.

We hate them here in England as much as anywhere in the World.

For the record,
a. This blog made no judgement as to the scale or origin of the trouble in Cologne, I merely posted one first-hand account - precisely because, in the context of complaints from England fans that reports of fighting are often exaggerated, I felt an eye witness account would be interesting to read.

b. This is how our news colleagues reported the arrests after the Poland Germany game

Far from being downplayed, it was the most popular story on the news website that day with more than 360,000 page impressions (fyi, Billie Piper to leave Doctor Who was second..)

c. Skirmish is another word for fight or brawl. The choice of word has nothing to do with the nationality of the fans, more the nature of the incident.

d. According to the Agence France Presse, all 15 England fans were this morning released without charge, although six have been banned from re-entering Cologne (for a period).

e. The Press Association this morning reported that Assistant Chief Constable Stephen Thomas, of Greater Manchester Police (he is the senior officer advising the Germans) told a news conference that of 2,695 arrests at the tournament so far, only 103 were of British people, and 64 of those were under preventative powers.

We did a piece along these lines last week

I couldn't give a stuff about whether or not you recovered your phone cover!

dominated!!

dominated!! by ze germans.

like in all walks of life and in all situations 99.9% of the people are great and o.1% are not..the so called trouble was nothing in my opinion but over reation from the thuggish german police who lashed out at anyone near at hand.
the people who are slagging off the england fans are of course people who have never been to a game of football .
some one even said dutch fans dont cause trouble, try going to ajax v psv and then say the same thing.. the english fans are the best in the world...just listen to all the racist chants from everyone BUT the english fans. the eastern european footy scene is like it was in england in the 70s..thousands of dam hooligans..of course the press over react just as in the past photographers of various newspapers have even got groups of england fans drunk before getting them to throw chairs and tables around so they could make up a story complete with photos about english "hooligan" fans. if you believe anything wrote in the rag press then you must be stupid. england 4 the world cup and hull city till i die

By all accounts the English have been amongst the best behaved fans at this world cup. The incident reported as an 'eye witness' account could well be make believe - I've seen nothing in the German press about it, and they never miss an opportunity to critise the English.

I think the whining Welsh and Canadians (above) should just get over the fact that they aren't good enough to compete at this level and stop trying to find excuses for having a pop at the English, who are the best side in Europe, if not the world.(We shall see by the end of the tournament anyway). I bet the Canadians and the Welsh wish they could get as passionate about a sport as we English are about football. I would say that the Welsh should stick to rugby, but they aren’t much good at that either, are they?

There are many idiot fans from all over the globe..

I was in brazil this year and locals , who are friends of mine told me how much trouble there is at games there ....i would never have guessed maybe its on a club level as at international the brazilian fans seem to be more about having a party ...

I must say this its all in the attitude's of the people , i live in new york and there are bars where the games are on and its all the english i never want to see again and in other bars ..people are great .

I think that a lot of people are envious of the English and our fantastic support for our national football team. Doesn't matter where in the world the World Cup is being played, we always out-number and out-sing the opposition. What's it like to see a crowd???!!!!

You'd be hard pressed to find a Scot who is envious of the English. The reputation of the Tartan Army is admired throughout the globe, with the reason for the good behaviour being that there is some form of self policeing (sic) amongst the Scots. The Scots are a proud nation and protect their reputation by nipping any trouble in the bud by themselves, making friends with locals and local police, and generally just having a ball. The one thing the English troublemakers need to lose is the Arrogance, and allow the vast majority of English fans to be welcomed throughout the world.

"Why can't England fans be like the Dutch fans?"

If Holland and Germany play each other in this tournament then you might want to retract that statement!

Probably a 'little skirmish' just to give the tabloid guys something to justify their expense accounts.
Visit any 'costa' or holiday resort in europe and you'll probably see worse............ if there are any number of english 'lads' around that is.
Wouldn't it be fun if Brighton were to get invaded by drunken hordes of Dutch or German youth causing havoc every summer...
Generally England fans are behaving, but there is a problem with English youth/drink culture that is not prevalent in any other society in europe as it is in England ....
every saturday night.
What the English (British ) have come to accept as harmless'boyishness' is still offensive to lots of other nations.

It is for this reason that I spent last week in North Germany and purposely avoided the areas where large numbers of English fans were gathering. If I want to get blind drunk with football louts and abuse the local police I can do it on Friday night at my local high street. One of the joys of the World Cup is spending time with fans from other counries and I had much more fun with the Italian and Ghanian fans in Hanover than I could ever have with English louts. My experience of watching Germany beat Poland with 200,000 fans in Berlin will never be forgotten.

We hear this "It's only a minority who cause fights" garbage every time there's a riot - so basically every time there's a football tournament England are involved in.
But what do you regard as provocative or starting a fight? I mean - why was the guy climbing the statue anyway, and what would the British police have done to a German climbing a city centre monument here? And if you look at any pic of the England crowd you'll see some moron dressed in a Tommy hat.

Overall Germany is still a country where people are largely brought up to be socially conscious and obey rules. People getting drunk and brawling is quite rare even in rough towns there.

They also have a pretty brutal police culture! So don't blame them when sparks fly because the "usual" violence, drunkeness and anti-social behaviour we expect from any crowd of Brits on holiday is not accepted as every day behaviour!

Having been in front of a riot police charge very recently, to those of you saying "if you're not causing trouble then step out of the way", you've obviously never seen a riot charge.

WHERE do you step out of the way? If you happen to be in the area of the street that the police intend to charge down, then there is usually nowhere to go than straight back into the crowd you want to get away from and have nothing to do with. If it were possible to side-step the charge, then they wouldn't bother! The reason there is a charge going on is to frighten people back, using the fans (who are being hit with batons) own strength as they struggle TO GET OUT OF THE WAY to push the crowd back. I was merely standing in a street once talking to a friend when riot police acted simply to tell a large crowd to get back, because they hadn't planned adequetly enough to stop such a large number of people accidentally going down the wrong street in the first place.

Riot charges are EXTREMELY dangerous. They cause stampedes, trampling, and people being crushed to death. It should be used as a last resort, not just basic crowd control.

"Riot charges are EXTREMELY dangerous. They cause stampedes, trampling, and people being crushed to death. It should be used as a last resort, not just basic crowd control."

Yes - but there was no riot charge - the police attempted to HELP the injured English fan and this was mistaken for a riot charge.

Well, maybe the police should stop protecting people because who drunk people could misunderstand it ;-)

Is that what you are saying?

If someone gets in the line of a riot charge its a good warning to fans to make their collegues to behave friendly.

In this case, yes, there were England fans involved. But last week there were 400 arrests at a riot between German and Polish supporters - yet that seems to be overlooked and suddenly England fans are the ones 'back to their old ways'. Ok, it still doesn't excuse what happened last night, but this needs to be put into perspective instead of fueling the out-dated stereotype of English hooligans. The media are mainly to blame for this - they love reporting on it. I also think if it was England fans involved in the rioting last week we would have international outrage and FIFA debating whether or not to dock points.

"They also have a pretty brutal police culture! So don't blame them when sparks fly because the "usual" violence, drunkeness and anti-social behaviour we expect from any crowd of Brits on holiday is not accepted as every day behaviour!"

John - this is, to be frank BS. The police is very closely monitored by the press and politics and the police is in my opinion more tolerant than in other European countries.

You are right when it comes to binge drinking - it is a phenomenon that just slowly starts in some bigger cities...

what seems to be left out of the story is that English fans attacked German riot police which tried to help an English fan who fell off a fountain. Police was thrown at with beer bottles resulting in 14 injured police officers.

i don't think that is a major incident, but if you throw bottles at the police don't be surprised if they get back at you.

Have some of the people who post these comments ever BEEN to a football match?

Scottish fans not hooligans? Anyone ever been to an old firm derby?
Dutch fans not hooligans?
Jesus, was it 250 or 300 German and Polish fans arrested for fighting a few days ago (and that's just the ones they managed to arrest!)?

I always said before this World Cup, there will be a few incidents (a scuffle in a bar, a small group throwing bottles) involving England 'fans' but there won't be any of the scenes witnessed in past (pre-2002) tournaments. I still think this will be the case, but time will tell.

103 (64 of which were preventative) out of 2,695 arrests tells it's own story. In fact, bearing in mind the sheer numbers of England fans in Germany, and the type of people they are (predominantly young males) I'm actually quite proud of that statistic.

And contrary to what someone else has posted on here, it's usually early on in a tournament when things kick off (with England 'fans' anyway) and things quieten down the longer the tournament goes on, around the stadiums and local towns anyway, if not back here in England or some Costa Del Chav.

The wider problem of drinking in this country is not football's problem, and is long overdue being sorted out - possibly by the government, if they can find the time?

Just one point - if someone was injured and needed help, why did the riot poolice move in? Have they got automatic self loading bandage guns?

The 'England' fans came to Anfield once, a lot of them are racist, skin headed, Chelsea muppets. Looking distastefully at anyone less than white. But the vast majority are quite sound.

First off all not every English fan thinks we can beat everyone i expect we will draw with Sweden hopefully not lose but who knows its England and we have a habit of F ing up. I do however expect England to do well but win i'm not getting my hopes up.
I am also a Liverpool fan and have not seen much in the way of trouble unlike Chelsea with there organised gangs who i think are now in prison but they won't be forever just remember that undercover report a few years ago do we Trevor. To all you people complaining about the 91Èȱ¬ and ITV just going on about England you should come to the U.S. and watch the games on ESPN the commentators love to speak of Landon Donovan all the time not even the U.S. best player in my opinion and the commentary is utterly rubbish and occasionally getting the country name wrong for example they called England Germany in one game calling Paraguay Uraguay and so on so do't complain i would much rather watch the games on the beeb or even ITV than watch them here but alas i am here so that is that. Also the world cup here by alot of people is seen as a joke and they would rather watch paint dry and that football is obviosly a girls sport, which to me is very annoying by the ribbings i constantly take but never mind.

First of all, it was only a minor incident which doesn't seem to be as widely reported here in germany as in england.
What caused me too wonder is the eye witness report quoted in this blog which made the cologne police seem like violent thugs. That definitely is not the case as the eye witness report posted by matty (no. 20) shows. They were trying to help and were attacked by some drunken fans.
Another point is the ongoing criticism of the english fans. Having seen hordes of english fans on the day of the game in frankfurt i had a very positive impression of them. So let's not blow this minor incident out of proporsion.

As others have said, the British bring this kind of thing on themselves. In cities all over the UK, every weekend, the British get up to the same kind of drunken behaviour. But our Police are used to it because it is, sadly, our culture.

In Europe things are different. People rarely get drunk and rowdy in public. And neither Police nor locals like to see it.

One day, with luck, the British will learn to act their age and respect the countries they visit.

I read on a German news page today that England fans in germany are celebrating peacefully while some video screens in England had to be temproarily shut down because of violence.
The incident in cologne was mentioned only on the sidelines.
More attention was given to an allegated beating of a (German) fan by Police in Berlin some days ago.
I also read a very frightening German blog from a guy that encounterd the croud getting out of the way in the incident in Dortmund and started panicing because he didn't know what was going on.

The blog entry above makes it look a little like police violence which seems to be wrong. The numbers of 14(?) policemen and no fans injured also make a good argument for the police.

So all in all this whole discussion was started by a one sided blog entry (that of course never claimed to be balanced) and is in my opinion really just "Much ado about nothing.". It was a missunderstanding beteween the fans and the local police.

What worries me though is the fact that the fans being approached by the police automatically assumed that they where to be punished for something. I guess it was a good idea to get the Bobbies to Germany to keep theese kinds of missunderstandings at aminimum.

I would never say that England fans are totally innocent LOL but the reactions of the German Riot police was obviously over zealous, I agree they have to stamp out Rioting, however violence only begets violence!

I have been to an England away match before and was utterly terrified by the way foreign police react to us, I REFUSED to go to Germany as it was obvious that the police were preparing to go in to the Engish contingent with a heavy hand!!!

Germany was totally the wrong place to hold the world cup, they have the POOREST record for hooliganism behind Turkey and yet still the emphasis is on the English? I blame FIFA for irrisponsibility and only wanting to line their pockets to the utter detrement of the game and fans of ALL nations!

We had NO problems in England with Euro 96, its obvious to me that the Germans just are not upto the task of hosting this international festival!!!

The problem with German history is that they tend to trust that the state is right, at times with terrifying results. German Riot Police beating up English fans, well they must have a reason.... History teaches us something different.
Actually sometimes riot police do behave worse than the football supporters. When that is the case they should be prosecuted.
The most precious thing about English liberty is it is the rule of the law, not of the police.

I am English and live in Munich where I have just watched the England:Sweden game from a large beer garden full of Germans, Swedes and English. Mostly a good natured event, partly spoilt by a pair of benign but ultimately annoying drunks standing near us waving flags in front of the screen blocking the view for at least 30 people. Everyone else had arrived early to get a seat. Guess their nationality? English. No violence but enough loutish behaviour to make me feel ashamed.

Its your own fault. I was in Japan to follow Ireland and saw thousands of fans without so much of a sniff of any trouble, and that was with the Japanese police on total ready-to-go riot alert all the time.

Someone started it, they always do. English fans may not have the domestic troubles that other countries do (for example Turkey) but the fact remains - English football fans get drunk and cause trouble.

You think everybody just makes these things up?

'it's your own fault...'

What kind of childish schoolyard comment is this? Try posting something useful or at least less pompous next time. I don't think anyone here is denying that English fans have caused trouble before, the point most people seem to be making here is that so have many other fans and the 'English' problem seems to be diminished to some extent. Nonetheless it's the underlying social causes that need to be examined and dealt with. Banning hooligans, whereever they come from, only deals with the symptoms.

Schoolyard comment? Look at half the comments above! Anyway, rather schoolyard comment than schoolyard fans.

And if you want something 'useful' then how about this - English people either don't care or don't realise that whilst other countries - European countries, I should add - go out and get blind drunk and have a great time, they don't have this culture of 'get drunk and fight'. Its not there, at least not in any kind of the same degree. Go to Europe and see if the propblems in a town square are anything even remotely approaching those in every major city in England (and I do live in England now so I am well aware of what it is like). This is intensified in a smaller area when 60,000 fans get together.

English football fans on tour consistantly cause MORE trouble than any other other countries. Fact. Its getting better, which is commendable, but the problem is nowhere near solved but the people who are blaming the police, German authorities and the media for singling them out should remember one thing - it's justified.

Before Michael from Canada comments on English Football "hooligans" maybe he should take a look at his Canada's hockey fans. Everytime a Canadian team wins the Stanley Cup their fans (called so even though few can be bothered to travel to the away games) seem to end up rioting. Let us be reminded that hooliganism is not just a problem for England nor just football but one that has to be faced worldwide and by many sports. Indeed it seems that the prominent nature of football attracts not just the negative publicity but hooligans themselves.

I'm just glad my 'baby' brother is ok! It's amazing how quick things turn around. I believe if he hadn't been able to speak to the German police in german, he too would have been injured!
He's only gone to watch football, which he has been mad about since he could sit upright!!!
Just because he got 'caught up' in the trouble, doesn't mean he was part of it, or enjoyed the experience!!!

Keep safe Joe

Julia
XxX

Markus - The point I'm making is not about German police anyway, and I'm not criticising them either. It's about the difference in culture between Germany (and most Western European nations) and England.

In England most people are brought up to think it's OK to do whatever you want, and any criticism of anti-social behaviour is a "disrespectful" infringement of your rights - there's no concept that we have to share this planet with each other and that "rights" come with responsibility. Germany, on the other hand, is the kind of place where pedestrians stop and wait at road crossings because the red light is showing, even when there's no traffic.

I've lived in Germany and sure - Germany has it's rough areas, drunks and anti-social teenagers, but it doesn't have the epidemic of this type of behaviour we see n Britain, and that we export to other countries whenever large numbers of us temporarily emigrate for a football tournament.

All I'm saying is that the type of behaviour we regard as standard celebratory rowdiness (brawling, bottle throwing, petty vandalism, chanting abuse) would be viewed by many Germans as particularly intimidating and aggressive. As for German police - sorry, but they WILL club you around the head if you're out of line. So don't be surprised if that harmless bottle you were (ahem) provoked into drunkenly hurling because you mistakenly thought your Tommy Hat wearing, statue climbing chum was getting a kicking off the German Rozzers earns you a smack round the head and a night cooling off in the German nick followed by deportation.

Also - the morons in Tommy hats - are we, as a nation, ever going to get over WWII? It makes me cringe.... IT WAS 60 YEARS AGO!!!

Finally - this whole thing comes down to CLASS, and our obsession with it. I think that, traditionally, not alot is expected of the British working class. Football is traditionally a working class game, and even though British society is much more mobile than it was, people still brand themselves as being in a certain class - often bearing no relationship to their actual status. Being "working class" is trendy, and that means you have to conform to a loutish, ignorant and aggressive stereotype, where being a selfish t*sser is OK because nobody cares about you anyway blah blah blah. Again - this culture is very alien to a less class obsessed country like Germany.

I'm interested in understanding why news agencies continue to refer to hooligans as England fans, and not simply hooligans ? The moment they become involved in anti-social behaviour, they relinquish the rights to be refered to as football fans and their status descends to the level of hooligan. Can we start a movement to divorce the true fans from the hooligan element by making a clear distinction between the two ?
Sorry to be pedantic, but as a Chelsea and an England fan, I feel I and the many other true football fans deserve to be better represented by the media than we currently are. The current labelling paints with too broad a brush.

English Soccer Fans an eternal problem of stupidity,Go England have another drink

Spot on Angry fan

I have just returned from Cologne, and whilst I was there there was 2 incidents, the one mentioned above with the statue, which I did not see but heard eye-witness reactions, this was nothing major, 4 arrests, 16 police hurt, only 12 requiring hospital attention for a bruised wrist.

The other was nothing what so ever to do with the English. Known German hooligans, where gathered around the fan fest and tryinbg to cause trouble, the riot police moved in and german fans threw bottles and chairs at the police, the police then charged the crowd on 3 occasions, this creating mayhem amongst the fans, many of which were english NO arrestes were made.

Storm in a tea cup really, blown out of context AS USUAL.

One german paper had the headlines, "English: from Trouble makers to Party Makers. England fans hold huge party in Koln." So get a grip people. If you were not there Please do not comment on the behaviour of the English fans, which in my eyes has been Loud, but very friendly and the atmosphere between fans has been great.

Long may it continue!!!

Calm down ... ;-)

As far as I know, the overwhelming majority of english (and all the other) fans here did not cause any trouble at all and spent their time mostly partying.

You can never exclude that there are some complete morons who enjoy rioting - and it makes no difference if these fools are english, german, polish or whatever. And a World Cup with absolutely NOTHING happening is impossible to imagine anyway.

Maybe I read the wrong papers, but "english hooliganism" is (in my impression), really not a big deal over here at the moment. Sure there is some footage about it and sure it will be forgotten tomorrow - if nothing really important will happen. And hopefully it will stay this way.

And Steward from message 44 is right: before the beginning of the world cup the police in germany was far more concerned about the extreme and notorious polish hooligans than about any other.

Not to forget, if you remember World Cup 1998, you know that there are a lot of similar german freaks: their victim Daniel Nivelle just watched one of Germany’s games as a special guest of the German Football Federation, which of course is nice and right but still not a true compensation for the heavy injuries he suffered from german hooligans in Lens. And I am sure that no policeman, whether from Germany, France or GB has forgotten his french colleague ...

Enjoy the cup and good luck to the Three Lions Team*

* With the exception of one (possible) special game, of course ... ;-)

Sounds like you all got what was coming to you. If you mess with the bull, you get the horn.

i was also in the square when the riot police charged i found refuge in an hotel reception, the police have been very good towards the english all tournament probably too leniant at times! but the problem arose that night with a not so clever german youth trying to dislodge a st george and replace it with his own colours, which is fine it is his city-country but not when your 20 foot up a statue with 2000 drunk england fans around you! praise must go to the police they are very quick to quell trouble under extreme provocation and the drowning chants of the mindless german bombers song, embarrassed english fan,

What wonderful fans England have! So fair, friendly and .... what a lot of c**p
It's 30,000 p**cks watching 11 t*ts.

I have just seen news footage from Stuttgard. Showing a large group od English supporters simging "If you HATE Scotland sit down!

Yes friendly loving chaps, who love everyone.
Sorry bit it's poor poor football, the worst team in the competition!! Followed by the worst supporters in the world.

Richard Bruce

According to the Daily Mail on Monday, more than 500 England fans were "detained" (although whether that actually means arrested I don´t know) in Stuttgart although I haven´t seen any other mention so unsure what this is about.

Either way, my twopennies worth;

As a current resident of Portugal, former resident of Brazil and being well travelled around both Europe and South America I can safely assure people that hooliganism in England pales in comparison to its counterparts in foreign climes. Anyone who wants to educate themselves on the subject should look no further than a google search on, for example, the Bad Blue Boys of Dinamo Zagreb, Partizan Belgrade´s notorious Gravediggers group, Ajax of Amsterdam´s F-Wing, Flamengo of Rio de Janeiro´s Torcida Jovem Fla to name but a few. Anyone who has experienced a Flu-Fla derby game in Rio will know that not even an Old Firm game comes close (When was the last time you saw British fans bringing firearms into our stadia?) Anyone remember the recent Libertadores Cup game between Corinthians and River Plate which was stopped due to crowd trouble as José Mourinho watched from the stands? What a great advert for the friendly Brazilian fans! Imagine the furore if a Champions´League game was stopped in similar fashion (particularly if it involved an English team)

The real reason behind the England fans´ poor reputation is an economic one. None of the really dangerous supporters from South America or Eastern Europe are there because they can´t afford to be there. Believe me, the beautifull Brasileiras you see in the stands are a far cry from the favela dwelling thugs you´ll find on the terraces at the Maracanã or Morumbí, they´re just the only Brazilians who are rich enough to go to a World Cup. As a by product of England´s geographical location, economic prosperity and membership of the EU, a massive number of fans are able to travel to travel to Germany (more than any other country) and yes, inevitably, a certain proportion of them will be drunken idiots who´ll get drunk, throw a few chairs and bottles around and get snapped by the waiting press pack. However, the proportion of England fans who´ll do this is no greater than that of any other country, it´s just that there´s more of them there.

Comments such as "why can´t we be more like the Dutch fans" make me laugh. Just look into the history of Feyenoord and Ajax´s games. As for the sanctimonious Welsh and Scottish fans; people in glass houses etc. Most feared hooligans in the UK? Cardiff City anyone? Need I mention Rangers and Celtic´s less than glorious history of sectarian violence between supporters? Thought not.

In short, learn a bit more about the topic you want to discuss rather than throwing about pointless comments based on media, negative, reductive national stereotypes and simple envy at the fact that, once again, despite all the problems we´ve faced, England are still marching on in the World Cup.

As mentioned in post 45, this was just one eye-witness account.

Some of the comments on here have been written negatively, which is part and parcel of writing about such events.

I know the truth of what happened. For those who say that I shouldn't have been there, it really didn't seem necessary at the time.

The riot police were deployed but people kept on celebrating, and they showed no sign of coming towards us.

Like the police officer I spoke to said, "it could turn in an instant", and that is exactly what happened.

I think the 91Èȱ¬ were right to link to eye witness accounts, because it's only when you have comments from all parties that you can fully piece together the events.

My piece has holes in it that I still don't know if they have been filled. I posted what I saw and observed, and I wouldn't be doing the story justice if I wrote anything else.