91Èȱ¬

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Great article Tim - always look forward to these on mondays. Do you think any of the brazilian coaches would be brave enough to adopt a Bielsa formation?

As an aside, you may want to have a word with the bbc folks though, as it was rather difficult finding the link to the blog.

Agree with #2 on both points: this blog is the highlight of my Monday, and yet the 91Èȱ¬ seem to be hiding it away at the moment. New website blip, I'll assume.

I've always loved watching proper attacking football, teams going all-out to just score more than their opposition. Though I have a question on the Chilean teams: what formation are they preferring to back up their front 3? Is everyone pulling for the 3-3-1-3 or are there 3-4-3s and 4-3-3s in there as well? Which one seems to be working best for them?

A great battle this past weekend in Spain between Bielsa's Athletic Bilbao and Mauricio Pochettino's Espanyol. It ended 3-3 as both clubs played an end to end match. Pochettino is another coach to keep an eye out for. He was by the way a star central defender on the Bielsa coached Newell's Old Boys team which lost the 1992 Copa Libertadores Final to Sao Paulo (the Brazilian club later went on to beat Cruyff's Barcelona in the Intercontinental Cup Final in Tokyo.) Newell's current coach, the ex Paraguay boss, Gerardo Martino also was on that 1992 team. So it is not just Sampaoli, but Bielsa is getting many of his "disciples" out in the coaching world.

Tim makes an intreresting point about the tactical inflexibility of Brazilian coaches. I also do not think it helps that Brazilian clubs seem to recycle so many coaches. Vanderley Luxemburgo, Emerson Leao, Abel Braga and Tite seem to have each coached almost all the major clubs in Brazil at least once in their careers! Very few new coaches are brought into Brazil, thus new ideas are not coming in. Instead it is the same plans being recycled by the same coaches.

Playing with wide midfielders (or attackers) in Brazil can be a difficult task, not to mention risky to managers who are always in danger of losing their jobs.

Take Gremio as an example: they are rebuilding the team after their poor last year's Brasileiro showing. Caio Jr (manager) is playing his midfielders wide which is generating a lot of pressure from the press. They say that the midfield is "empty", or that why that player is "hiding" on the side of the pitch. Nonsense of course, but that's the culture there. internacional's Falcao tried to play with wide midfielders which costed him his job.

Personally, I can't understand why Brazilian teams haven't been importing managers. Managers in Brazil are of limited supply and quality; the better ones are either well employed (Mano) and/or extremely expensive.

#4 raises a good point about the "recycling" of coaches. The champion is probably Celso Roth, who in the last 15 years alone, has coached Grêmio (2 or 3 times), Inter (2 or 3 times), Vitória, Goiás, Santos, Palmeiras, Atlético Mineiro (twice), Flamengo, Botafogo, Coritiba and Vasco- and that despite winning only one major trophy, and in 2010.

Meanwhile, a coach like Andrade, who won a Brazilian league in 2009 taking a team from the 14th position to 1st in 17 games and playing attractive football to boot, doesn't get any offers at all, even from smaller clubs, because he doesn't fit the "manager profile" clubs want- which means either "intellectual" like Parreira and Caio Jr. or "stern" like Felipão and Roth (few space for anyone in between), good at talking to the press (which is one of the main reasons why foreign coaches don't get hired), and white- which is at least to some is a factor.

#5- Many, or most even, clubs play today in 4-2-3-1 in Brazil, just like the rest of the world, including the two wide attacking midfielders. What Falcão was trying to do was making the team play in a 4-4-2 English style, which is something Brazilian clubs very rarely do- and frankly, I'm not sure they should, since it's a system very few used outside England today. I haven't seen Gremio play this year, so I can't comment on that specific case.

I love this man! I tell anyone that cares to listen hat if there wasnt a absurdly critical ref, a stupid keeper and possibly some over anxious players putting the boot in when they didnt have to, Chile would have knocked spain out in 2010. Its the only time i have seen spain on the back foot for most of the game and Xavi fail to dominate midfield, such was the pressure their defence was under.

@4 excellent, insightful commentary.

my personal take is that its not only brasil finding it difficult to cope with inventive new attacking ways. 'la U' pretty much demolished any south american team that came their way late last season with an eye-catching football display. as beilsa's philosophy catches on, i suspect teams will learn to adapt better in the higher-quality copa libertadores competition.

brasil teams perhaps should not only be paying attention to such formations, but also venture trying them in domestic leagues to suit style. may help the national team also. it is evident that chile national team is / will be benefitting from clubs adopting a similar attacking approach. as is spain national team (from barca way of playing)

Nice to see Paraguayan Roberto Ovelar get a mention, he's been a great 'Paraguay Abroad' in recent years in Peru.

Tata Martino certainly is a Bielsa 'disciple' but interestingly when I interviewed new Paraguay coach Chiqui Arce he was reading Bielsa's book "I'm a lot like him" he told me, although "not soooo detallista" - although nobody is as detallista as Bielsa!

paraguayfootball.wordpress.com

When I read the headline of this piece, about "Diplomat Bielsa" I thought Tim was going to mention Marcelo Bielsa's older brother Rafael who once was Argentina's Foreign Minister!

#11 is right, nobody is as obsessive and detail oriented as Marcelo Bielsa. One of the reasons his nickname is "El Loco." Bielsa though is unquestionably becoming an influential coach, not only through his own work and those who once worked under him but also from other coaches around the world who are copying his style. With Bielsa's emphasis on attacking play and high pressure, that can only be good for fans who want to see entertaining football.

I think in almost every league there is some recycling of coaches but nowhere, not even Mexico, is there as much recycling as happens in Brazil. When was the last time a new coach was given a chance at a Serie A club in Brazil? Andrade is a good example of a coach who despite success is having trouble finding other work after being let go by Flamengo. Or is he still waiting for Flamengo to call him again?

For all his faults Dunga at least brought some new ideas to Brazil's national team. Odd isn't it that no club has since been willing to give him a chance since he left the national team job?

Soccer Futbol Forum:

Not a bad blog Tim, I really want to see how La U do in the Libertadores. However, your idea that Brazilian clubs should dominate the Libertadores championship is debatable. Why is this? Technically, Argentinian teams have more success than Brazilian teams in the competition. This idea that Brazilian clubs should be doing better than their opponents because ther country is going through an economic boom is naive. Money does not bring quality and as I am sure you are aware of, Flamengo, arguably the biggest club in the country, is in a sticky situation with her finances. Brazil going through an economic boom is obviously not helping Flamengo with her apparently bad administration.

@6-Mengo2008. Good analysis but really mate, come off it, as if being a white coach means more in Brazil than being a black coach. Think about it.

Tim a good article as usual, just a couple of questions.

Bielsa's way of dealing with the captaincy issue, sounds perfectly reasonable until we are told 'it's my way or the highway' for the team formation. Is he what we would call a players coach, a Mourinho type or does he create a gulf between himself and his players.

We saw what happened in England when the money flooded in. Has Brasil seen any major differences in their game, for better or worse.

#13- I'm not saying it's the only reason Andrade didn't even get a single offer from a Serie A club in over two years it's because he's black- he doesn't fit in the "intellectual" or "stern" mold of virtually every other major Brazilian coach, it's too quiet or laid back dealing with the press, and of course he's very identified with Flamengo, but I don't doubt it's a factor in some cases. I mean, how many black managers are there in Brazil major clubs, or even in smaller ones?

I'm a huge fan of 3 at that back and I think it should be used more often in the Premier league. Partiularly for a home side trying to break down a weaker opponent who have parked the bus. I would really like to see Everton adapt something like a 3-4-3 formation at home because they have the players to do it and it would suit them really well at home. It gives teams an extra player in an attacking position but when in transition if the team works hard enough they will have a back 5 when defending.

Bielsa hardly has an ideology set in stone. For all of this season he has played a back four with Athletic. Granted, the full backs (usually Iraola and Aurtenetxe) are encouraged to push on and the holding midfielder (Iturraspe) drops deep, but it is not nearly as fluent as the system Barcelona used last season with Busquets dropping between the centre backs.

Pep Guardiola is well-known to be a huge supporter of Bielsa's coaching and his recent use of three at the back is quite likely a reflection of this, but how ironic that it is the Argentine that is now tending to copy the Spaniard by settling his team into a regualr 4-1-4-1 of sorts and utilising a ball-playing midfielder in the heart of the defence.

Bigdunc1878
@16
I would really like to see Everton adapt something like a 3-4-3 formation at home because they have the players to do it and it would suit them really well at home. It gives teams an extra player in an attacking position but when in transition if the team works hard enough they will have a back 5 when defending.
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Write a letter to Moysey and suggest it, i was at wigan on saturday and all i got was frostbite, it was not a good game.

On the formation itself, i know what your getting at but against stronger teams i think a team would pay the price. The other point is when players drop back they have a tendency not to move and having 5 at the back in England, it may well encourage more pressure from opponents. I also think if it was used in England where the pace around the whole pitch is faster, the work rate required of certain players would be very high but no one could accuse Everton of not having a high work rate.

It is interesting though and I'd love to see Moysey try it in training and playing it, say pre season, to see if it was possible.

@15-Mengo2008
Ok, you did say that Andrade being black was not the only and was not the major issue behind him not being hired by a decent club for some years now but I doubt it was an issue at all. You asked how many major team or small team managers are black in Brazil, well, as a Brazilian, I believe I have to let you know, or remind you whatever be the case, that you are dealing with a country where the vast majority of the population does not have such a clear cut and defined definition of race. You must also remember that the definition of who is black or white is also debatable. Do you go for the US definition whereby having one drop of blood from black ancestry in you makes you black, no matter how white you may actually be? To answer your question, depending on your definition, here are some managers of clubs in Brazil that are black: Toninho Cerezo, Joel Santana, Cristovao Borges, Helio dos Anjos, Celso Roth, Tite, Givanildo Oliveira and Paulo Silas. Lets not forget one that is not in Brazil, Carlos Alberto Parreira. It is also important to note that a vast number of managers in Brazil are ex-players, therefore their skin colour cannot be an issue if they do not decide to try their hand at managing, because I am pretty sure people would not say no to the likes of Pele, Djalma Santos or Junior.

Tim, it is true that Brazilian teams have more spending power now, this is evident in even a financially questionable Flamengo spending so much on Wagner Love amongst other expensive tranfsers by other clubs, but the vast majority of really promising young Brazilian talent is still going abroad, Ganso and Neymar are rare exceptions. The players that are in the country, like one of your previous blogs stated, are the old greats coming back from Europe or the ones that never left and/or left for not so much time and impact.

Oh, that is true, my incorrect tense there. But you do have to remember, yes Brazilian clubs were dominating the tournament with the amount of teams going far into the Libertadores, even having two years with all Brazilian finals, but one year being off pattern does not constitute a horrible mess that is going to continue, it could simply be an off year. If I recall correctly, Cruzeiro, Fluminense and Internacional all played well in the stage they got knocked out in and it was simply bad defending and/or complacency that got them conceding the one goal that would see them out on aggregate. This is really not much of a horrible performance by them, more a clumsy one, like Internacional´s performance against Mazembe. This clumsiness cannot be seen as being linked to their supposed favourable financial situation as yet, if this pattern repeats itself, as we have yet to see, then there may well be a link. It is simply too early to say if it is simply an anomaly or a trend created by several reasons.

#7 fair enough on the wide wingers/attackers, but my point was about wide midfielders, which is also something Tim talk a lot about: in Brazil the attacking fullbacks run the side of the pitch and the midfields "should" play in the centre.

I actually think, and I think Tim brought it up before, that the English 2-lines could cause a lot of trouble against teams who depend on their attacking fullbacks (pretty much all Brazilian sides).

Simply put Tim, Bielsa thinks "attack is the best form of defence", or "He who dares, wins", and I agree with him. Every dog has his day, but, over time, I believe, pound for pound, Bielsa is ahead of the game. This is why Ferguson has been successful, in my opinion. It's also stating the obvious, but I also think the longer you keep the ball, the better you get at keeping and making use of it. And vice versa, the longer you don't have the ball, the worse you become at retaining it. It's exponential.

Interesting blog tim, as usual, although it was more difficult to find than previously, in this incredibly dense new 91Èȱ¬ visual format.
On the subject of tactical lessons learned, I am dismayed by the fact that, despite the learning opportunity in Tokyo and the evident need to take advantage of it, Santos don't seem to have changed their style at all this season. And given that they have lost Danilo, Jonathan and Alex Sandro (without adequate replacements), Adriano is a long-term injury, the CB pairing has become a liability and Elano and Borges have suffered precipitous loss of form, I fear that their centenary year is not looking very auspicious at the moment.

Tim, excellent article as always. I have been trying for quite some time to find a documentary or biography in English to give me more detail on the personality and tactics of Marcelo Bielsa than I am able to find reading by reading online, is there anything you can reccomend? I am a keen student of the structure of teams and I would love to read more about one of the great tactical innovators of our time.

Tim, thanks for another top notch article. Very refreshing to see somebody blogging about tactics and the intricacies of football. I have always thought that the idea of a back three is derided too easily in England and feel that more sides should impliment this system against the rigid 4411 many of the sides in the premiership use.

Nice start in the Libertadores for one of last season's semifinalists, Velez. They won 3-0 away to Uruguay's Defensor Sporting. I am not sure they have enough to become champions but Velez have a pretty good team, a quarterfinal or even semifinal finish is possile for them. This week's best Libertadores game, on paper at least, Wednesday's matchup between Vasco and Nacional of Uruguay.

Another "recycled" coach Joel Santana returns to Flamengo. He leaves Bahia who named Paulo Roberto Falcao as coach. At least Falcao, who spent most of his post playing career as a pundit, is a relatively different face in the coaching field. He has briefly coached both the national team and Internacional before so he is not a newcomer coach. Ironically Falcao's first game in charge at Bahia will be against his old teammate Toninho Cerezo who coaches cross town rival Vitoria!

Interestingly the Brazilian League defies the romantic vision of the National team and has done for many years. Drab defensive football played in front of low crowds.

I for one hope this year the Libertadores is won by an attack minded team.

Only 28 comments Tim,your lowest number ever.
Im sure this is down to the 91Èȱ¬ website changes. I had to search for you by name to find this blog.