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If the Scottish (and in part Welsh) governments choose to have less student fees, free prescriptions and care for the elderly etc. etc. then it's their choice. But they should not expect largesse from the English who do not enjoy the sane freebees.

In Scotland and Wales they tend to vote for a Labour Government.

OOPS!

You voted for the wrong parties this time.

What a shame.......

It does seem remarkable that the Welsh Assembly is proposing an 8% cut in overall health spending in real terms, yet is keeping free prescriptions.

Scottish voters wont be fooled by the absence of figures beyond 2011/12. It is the severe reduction on capital spending across the UK but particularly in the devolved nations that should give rise for concern. These are big numbers and reflect not only an impoverishment of public capital and infrastructure but a severe squeeze on the private sector that has grown to serve the public sector. It will significantly slow the recovery and is in addition to the general slash and burn of the public sector revenue budgets - also significantly deflationary. This has not much to do with curing the deficit and more for the political recasting of the welfare state well illustrated by the attack on legal aid by Kenneth Clark earlier this week.

"Health and education between them account for around two-thirds of spending by the Scottish government."

Could this be largely due to free higher education for students in Scotland? I think there is something fundamentally wrong where students in one part of the United Kingdom pay up to 拢9000 per year in fees, and those in another go for free - especially when taxes are centralised and redistributed. How can the Scots and the Welsh (whilst not free, have no increase in fees, and higher subsidies than we currently have) afford this, and the English cannot?

Is it right that a student from a disadvantaged background in England has to pay, and be saddled with upwards of 拢20,000 in debt, and a student from a very wealthy background in Scotland goes for free?

I believe in a Scottish Government to govern in Scottish issues, but education is univeral, and rights and access to that education should be universal to all British citizens, whether fee-based or free.

Stephanie,
The SNP spending decision for only 1 year was predictable 鈥� Labour would have done the same.

#5
It's not that Scotland/Wales can afford free university places and England can't, they just believe education is a higher priority.

I find it strange the English tax payer is willing to pay the salary of GPs, surgeons, nurses, school teachers etc but not for their training.

I believe some degrees should be paid for (medicine, science, engineering, etc), some shouldn鈥檛 (music, arts, film studies etc).

Again, it is about prioritizing.

Scottish, Welsh and English politicians are so far failing to see the enormous economic errors of their and their predecessors' ways despite the current humiliation of their Irish peers just next door.
How to remove the burden of the 拢80,000+ per citizen debts that we are all drowning under is the only elephant in the room worthy of our attention at the moment.
Independence, free or not free higher education, fox hunting or not etc are perhaps for future times after this mess has been overcome. In the meantime lets hope that we get the leaders who can save us from joining poor Ireland.

When a commentator generally refers to 'cuts', there seems to be at least two ways this is done. Either you can accept that the slump in the economy from 2008 is unrecoverable, or you say that, as Krugman blog 23 July 2010 has it, 鈥渨henever I draw a chart comparing actual growth with the pre-crisis trend...it鈥檚 standard practice to assess economic trends with peak-to-peak interpolation, because the peaks are a reasonable estimate of the economy鈥檚 capacity, while other points on the business cycle don鈥檛 convey anything like that information.鈥�
Here is Adam Posen 8 October 2010, 鈥渁 key factor underlying policy reactions is the size of the negative supply-side shock resulting from the crisis 鈥� or at least the perceived size of this non-observable shock. If policymakers believe 鈥� rightly or wrongly 鈥� that the GDP declines essentially results from a demand shock, leaving potential output unaffected, they will be naturally inclined to advocate further stimulus. If they tend to believe 鈥� again, rightly or wrongly 鈥� that the supply-side damage is significant, they will have less appetite for it.鈥�
I think these two poles need to be kept in mind when 'cuts' are mentioned, irrespective of what the politicians are currently saying.

Perhaps we Scots care more for our education system and perhaps are prepared to allow our governments to pay for it....thats our choice....not a freebee. Also the fees are free...not the living costs...our students still run up debts same as in England!!

At least our politicians haven't so blatantly lied....."we sign this plege not to raise tuition fees".......well that lasted all the way to their ministerial cars!

in respect of the block grant.....everyone else has screamed about cuts from the police to the politicians....the people of scotland are like everyone else waiting to hear how the cuts will affect our services etc.

in respect about the comment about largesse.....lets not forget that good old Britain (and yes that includes you England) has benefitted to the tune of 拢1.5Trillion from North Sea Oil....without that I think we'd all be poorer......Scotland isn't on the receiving end of free hand outs as English MP's would like us to believe....we contribute a great deal to the Union.

newblogger, at #6 you write

"I believe some degrees should be paid for (medicine, science, engineering, etc), some shouldn鈥檛 (music, arts, film studies etc).

Again, it is about prioritizing."

What gives you the authority to decide which degrees should be paid for and which shouldn't?
Just because some university courses do not lead onto a career in medicine or engineering it doesn't mean that those they provide training for are unecessary - surely it's more unfair to be what is basically elitist towards course funding than to have restrictions placed on all courses?

With freedom comes responsiblity!

Unlike Osbourne, who expects to be in power right into 2015, the Scottish government might be changed in May 2011, so there is little point in making plans for later.

Because of the lack of full taxation powers, the Scottish government have had to go along with the Westminister cuts. The Scottish people would probably have preferred more taxation of the rich, particular of large scale landowners who sterilise huge tracts of Scottish countryside, and use it only for the entertainment of their friends and business associates.

10. At 11:26am on 18 Nov 2010, _g_ wrote:

The very principle of a University is elitist - it used to be for the best academic minds only!

Now it is for anyone above average intelligence (50% was Labour鈥檚 target) hence is has become so expensive for taxpayers.

Doctors, teachers etc used to have their training paid for, now they don鈥檛, due to the film studies type degree inflation.

Why are we happy to pay to train police but not doctors etc?

Is it not the case that the Scottish bregional government can increase Income Tax, I believe by 2p in the pound.
If the Scottish people want their government to spend more, surely this is the answer.

"Tough choices: Devolved, and deferred".

Surely, this whole debate has to link with subsdies from English tax-payers who are facing massive cuts.

The Scottish and Welsh Parliaments have been riding for too long on a wave of subsidies from England since devolution? That fact can't be denied.

If any part of the previous UK desires and believes in full, honest, true and genuine independence and devolution from England, therefore surely that independence requires independent tax-raising measures from the devolved population?

In other words, devolution was fought for, and was won by political egos to gain power for it's own sake and yet continued to demand 'maintainance' payments from it's divorced partner?

12. At 11:56am on 18 Nov 2010, stanblogger wrote:
Unlike Osbourne, who expects to be in power right into 2015

Until the LibDems lose their bottle more like.

Latest trade figures make interesting reading.

Top free import sources

1. Germany 拢3,822M
2. China 拢2,633M
3. US 拢2,339M

I wonder what 'tacky artefacts' we import from Germany.

Audi, Mercedes ?

If we protected our workers from 'foreign competition'... :)

Remember the Marina (my first car) ?

The economy will never start to move until we manage to get more money in poor people's pockets. The point is, poor people spend the money they have which creates wealth. Rich people sit on their money which stifles the economy. The hardest question is how do we redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor regardless of which part of the UK they live in?

15. At 12:15pm on 18 Nov 2010, corum-populo-2010 wrote:

'The Scottish and Welsh Parliaments have been riding for too long on a wave of subsidies from England since devolution? That fact can't be denied.'

Evidence please?

#19
Certainly Scotland from way before devolution.
It is called the Barnett formula - see Wilipedia and here

the Scots are supposed to be the experts in fiscal management Alex Salmon is always stating how Scotland could manage its affairs far better if it had the resources it was entitled to, so let him imagine that the situation is that these are those resources they are entitled to and see what transpires

18. At 12:41pm on 18 Nov 2010, Richard Thomson wrote:

The economy will never start to move until we manage to get more money in poor people's pockets. The point is, poor people spend the money they have which creates wealth. Rich people sit on their money which stifles the economy. The hardest question is how do we redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor regardless of which part of the UK they live in?

-------------------------------------------------

Actually, giving money to the poor still ends up in the pockets of the capitalist rich. It goes to the bank (mortgage), private landlord(rent),large supermarket chain, tobacco company, multi-national energy company etc etc.

Capital accumulates more capital. It is the contradiction of the system.

To properly redistribute wealth we need 100% inheritance tax for over say; 拢1 million?

The problem is those who have money don't want to share!

15 - corum_populo_2010

"That fact can't be denied"

What fact? All you've provided is a brainless assertion, maybe you borrowed it from the Daily Mail.

Devolution was and is the settled will of the Scottish people - even the Tories accept that now. Choices are made by the Scottish parliament based on a formula-driven amount supplied by Westminster. If Scottish politicians choose to spend on different priorities then that is their right as elected representatives.

I agree that the SNP can only present a 1 year plan at present and Labour is disingenious (at best) to suggest otherwise given their lack of detail before the UK election on cuts. I'm not an SNP supporter but the budget seems sensible given the cuts we are rightly sharing with the rest of the UK (although I dont agree that the UK should be facing the level of cuts it is).

Today's Scottish budget only covers 2010-11. It's easy to see why the other years have been left blank: there is the small matter of a Scottish election in May

You must be pals with Iain Gray the Labour Commissariat leader in Scotland. In reality there's a commission been set up to review the whole public sector set up in Scotland and that will inevitably impact on any future budget.

Gray of course wants to cut costs by doing things such as having only one police force presumably to be known as the Stazi and controlled by a Labour apparatchik from a bunker in Glasgow. I wouldn't trust any political party to do that.

Only the Scottish parliament could trumpet a "拢1bn budget surplus" in the middle of a recession after a 拢4bn initial donation from Westminster as good economic management. Only the Scottish government can then claim that only receiving 拢3bn the next year as a vicious and excessive cut to public spending that puts the economic recovery in trouble. Only the Scottish will complain when their public spending on areas such as university tuition gets closer to the rest of the world where people have to invest in their own education.

#20



The Barnett Formula is just about spending and says nothing about revenue, so says nothing about Scotland being 'subsidized'.

Is there any evidence Scotland recieves more than it pays in?

@ 17 Richard Dingle hits the point. There's loads of stuff we don't manufacture. Therefore we import and we pay for the imports either by borrowing or printing more pound notes. Neither route is very good, but, looking at Greece and Ireland, borrowing money seems even worse than printing it.

How did we reach this situation? France subsidised Renault. Italy subsidised Fiat. Germany didn't subsidise, but opted to produce goods of perceived quality and charge a suitably high price.

In the late 1960s, Jaguar wanted to build a smaller car. They went to the British Leyland management, but were told oh no, no, No! And what did we get instead: the Morris Marina. If you want cheap, that's OK. But to produce cheap and sell cheap, you need a low cost, low wage environment - the far east, eastern Europe - or government subsidy.

Have we learnt anything since? Did Lord Mandelson give Jaguar a loan at the depth of the recession or did he pay incompetent bankers to take early retirement? Is the present UKGov investing in our universities and science and technology? Is Stephanie Flanders really Nigella lawson?

If you want an investment tip: manufacturers of money printing machines. Though we probably even import that.

26. At 2:09pm on 18 Nov 2010, newblogger wrote:
Is there any evidence Scotland recieves more than it pays in?
=========================
Since tax is paid over from various random points throughout the country with no refernce to where it was collected I think that is very unlikely. A national company may have its admin centre including payroll and accounting in Glasgow so pay VAT, PAYE, NIC and Corporation Tax from there but much of it may be actually collected in East Anglia.

This whole debate ignores the impact of an unfair funding process - Barnet formula - which needs changing.

The fact is that the English cannot keep funding the Scottish and Welsh assemblies to deliver services superior to those experienced by the English.

There needs to be full independence for Scotland so that they can be cast off from England. We cannot afford them and they abuse the English largesse that is provided. If they want indepdences like Northenr Ireland let them have it. England and the English cannot afford them anymore.

29 - DibbySpot

"The fact is that the English cannot keep funding..."

I'll say it again - What fact? All you've provided is a brainless assertion, maybe you borrowed it from the Daily Mail.

What next after you cast off Scotland and Wales - maybe the North East? Maybe all the different parts of England until you're left with all those real value-add bankers. Then you can concentrate on immigrants maybe?

Oil is the elephant in the room with regards to Scotland and theres many ways to look at the value and what would "belong" to Scotland. In the UK current predicament I wouldn't be so hasty to cast us away.

Yes no:17 I do remember the Marina, a load of rusty, unreliable junk. That is the reason I have bought a Mercedes and it is more ecenomical, quieter, more reliable, confortable and could but won't go on.
I wish you safe and happy motoring.

Oh dear. More internecine squabbling about who subsidises who. Last I read when it came to greatest subsidy, it was the Northern Irish who topped the list, then the Scots, then the Welsh and yes then the English. Unfortunately what it didn't then do was to look at how the English regions broke down. When you look at region spend across England it then becomes apparent that the region that enjoys the greatest subsidies through direct and indirect Government spending was in fact the South East. Those whom I believe squeal the most about carrying the rest of the UK. One point to note from McKinsey's report today is the recommendation that the UK should seek to develop a balanced economy. Balanced across all sectors and across all regions.