91Èȱ¬

I do not understand why people refer to this as a "complex, deep, emotional problem". The whole issue is simple, 1) if you break the law of the land and enter the USA illegally, then when you are caught, expect to have your butt thrown out of the country in a reasonable time frame.. and 2) anyone who employees an illegal ‘alien’ who does not have work authorization should be fined a substantial amount to help pay for enforcement.

What is so complex about that?

Hysteria about unauthorized immigration into the US in nothing new. Nativism has been an unjust and unfortunate voice in the immigration debate since the ratification of the Constitution in 1787. However popular this movement is at any given time, it ignores both reality and history. The US is a nation of immigrants from all over the world, and to point the finger at unauthorized migrant workers from Mexico (who have contributed vastly more to the US economy than they have take away) boils down to racial scapegoating, and ignorance. In addition, since almost half of these unauthorized migrants are overstaying a visa, not crossing trought the deserts of Arizona, the fence will be a massive waste of money, which will take far more from taxpayers pockets than unauthorized migrants ever have.

This is just the sort of leftie rubbish one has come to expect from the 91Èȱ¬. What exactly does "Why don't they use the energy they are spending now on the campaign to come up with reforms in immigration?" mean? That politicians shouldn't commit themselves to the democratic process? And I rather got the impression that the correspondent didn't like the measure that had been agreed, namely taking steps to stop illegals entering in the first place. It seems an eminently practical and sensible idea to me.

It is not America's job, despite it obviously being a very desirable place to live (do the 91Èȱ¬ ever ask why so many want to live in America?), to provide a good life for every human being in the world. And believing that doesn't equate to dismissing the illegals "as if they were from other (sic) planet."

America is already giving generously to bring a better life to Afghans and Iraqis. It would be supererogatory for them to take Central and Latin America in hand as well.

The complexity occurs when one realizes how many goods and services are only possible through cheap "illegal" labor. If all of the nation's labor is done by US citizens, workers are going to be wanting higher wages, unions, etc; this is not good for big businesses that thrive off of their cheap labor. So one side wants them all out of the country but at the same time will gripe about items at Wal-Mart costing more than $1 while the other side disregards the law but at the same time will gripe when they lose their job to an illegal who is getting paid in pennies. Both sides could possibly contradict themselves. Thus, complexity, Ed!

In all of the media hype surrounding immigration, no one ever bothers to mention WHY people are leaving Mexico in droves. As a service worker and teacher of ESL I assure you that few of the undocumented immigrants who are here are enamored with the culture of the United States. They don't WANT to be here. They are here because they are starving to death due to the unfair policies of their own government (policies which are backed by the United States government in an effort to export Mexicans for cheap labor.) I challenge anyone to tell me that they would not do everything in their power to make sure their children did not starve to death. If your family were starving, would you cross a desert and scale a fence and work a degrading job in order to ensure their survival? Of course you would. The idea that immigrants are here to "take advantage" of anything is preposterous. They are here so that they can survive.

The problem of immigration will only change once the government of Mexico is changed, and as long as the government of Mexico is being rewarded by the United States, this is not going to happen. We need someone who is willing to take a stand against the inhumane practices of the Mexican government instead of making empty, xenophobic gestures like building a fence on the border. To focus solely on strict enforcement (to treat refugees like criminals)is to treat the symptom instead of the illness itself. As long as conditions in Mexico (and other countries) continue to be unlivable, people will come.

I am tired of hearing that we don't have the responsibility to take care of other countries. What a self-centered point of view! It saddens me that so many who live in this country feel they were born here by divine right and somehow "deserve" to keep everything for themselves. Technology and transportation, global trade and global policy has shrunk the world so much that this kind of disregard for others' welfare is no longer possible.

The truth of immigration is that centuries of dispicable international policy is finally coming back to haunt us.

Kathryn, I don't know where you live, but from your comments, I guess not in Southern California. You make unauthorized migrant workers sound like the saviours of this nation. Illegal immigrants do not make a positive contribution to this country after the cost of supplying social services which include heavily subsidized (if not free) education, housing, hospitals etc. not forgetting housing over 100,000 inmates in the prisons. Finally, may I suggest that the word 'racial' be deemed unappropriate in this situation and remind people that the Secure Fence Act was borne out of frustration with an inept federal government, that is either unwilling or unable to enforce border security.

First of all, this country is a nation of immigrants. However, unlike immigrants from the past, these immigrants are here not to assimilate into our country but rather for economic reasons only.

I feel for their economic problems in their own homeland and I know the majority of them only want to provide some income for their families.

However, they are overwhelming our social services which is particularly devastating for poor legal American citizens who need these same services.

Just because some of us are anti-illegal immigration does not make us nativist or racist. Such emotion based labelling only detracts from helping to solve this important issue for our country's future

There can be no mistake that the new fence to be built along parts of the southern border of the US is simply racist. The arguments raised in defense of it are full of emotion and devoid of logic, and the railing against the cheap-labor hordes is directly reminiscent of the rhetoric employed about Chinese immigration in the early twentieth century.

I live in Texas, the state purported to have the highest concentration of illegal immigrants, so I see them all around me.

I lived for many years in 4 different countries in Asia, and I know from first hand experience what it is like to be the victim of racism.

Do I have an answer? I believe it can be solved only through years of hard negotiations between freely elected governments intent on providing the highest quality life for all people involved. Where those negotiations lead can only be seen in time.

By the way, why don't we ask a native American who the illegals are.

Immigrants are costing us too much-- in social services cut or cancelled thanks to Bush's War?? Remember those billion$ tax cuts for the super-rich? Repealing even some of those giveaways drops the deficit that's bankrupting America, funds basic services, and voila! the service/cost/immigrant-evildoer issue goes away. We might even have a penny left for the starving homeless. Or is ending war and helping people too radically compassionate? Clearly, "social conservatism" is just Bushspeak coverup to guarantee the super-wealthy pay less, "conserve" more for themselves, and stick "society" with the bill. The interest of the average American and that of immigrant are not too different after all. Under Bush, both work as indentured servants to the top 1%.

What ever you call them, they are ILLEGAL. And, whatever you call the fence bill, BUILD IT. Sure, they are human beings - human beings who broke our laws. There are plenty of people who want to live in America and who would respect them. There is no god-given right of Mexicans and other south Americans to live in this country nor, as Lourdes seems to imply, an obligation of Americans to foot the bill for everyone in this hemisphere. And, believe it or not, we WOULD get along just fine.

Tim,
You seem to suggest that Iraq and Afghanistan are benefiting from our generous assistance. God help Mexico if the US ever does decide to "take them in hand" as we have Iraq.

I expect that people like Kathryn do not compete with "unauthorized migrants" (i.e. illegals) for jobs, which is why she can afford to be so prissy and judgmental about her fellow citizens who used to be able to make a decent living in the building trades and now have to compete with illegals willing to work off the books for below minimum wage. That said, I expect this fence will never get built anyway. The only way to stop illegal immigration is to crack down hard on employers and deny all benefits to people who can't show evidence of legal residence.

Some of the more bitter anti-immigration folks on this blog should go find a list of the US military people killed in Iraq. How many of them have Spanish names? (Hint: a lot.) Do you think that all their families came here legally?

That's not to deny that illegal immigration is a problem. But there is no reason for the hate being expressed by some posters here.

Chris, the Secure Fence Act was borne out of the Republicans frustration that they are about to lose their majority in Congress. Need I remind you that this is a FEDERAL act, thus it is unlikely that they are passing legislation out of frustration that THEY are not doing anything. And remember, this is not a "security issue," it is an economic issue. You are right, I don't live in Southern California (I could live in Nigeria for all you know), but incidentally, that does not change the numbers. Consider this: with the flourishing false SSN industry that has been developing along side the increase in unauthorized immigration, many, if not most of the "aliens" you speak of just so happen to be paying taxes just like everyone else. In fact, "...Mexican migrant workers pay $29 billion a year more taxes than the services they receive" (Fuentes, 2004). With views like yours however, I think you would fit right in with the Minuteman Project. Then you can hunt down those immigrants for yourself, and tell them to their faces that their long and arduous journey to feed their families is a curse upon this, the richest and most powerful nation in the world. Do not discount the suggestion that this is yet another episode of racism in the US, after all there have been many. Perhaps you should reconsider why it is that YOU do not like these dark skinned aliens roaming around your city.

It is amazing to me that no one ever comments on which border the 9/11 hijackers used to gain illegal entry into the US. Americans continue to have a myopic view of the illegal immigration. Those that argue for fences along Mexico need to stop listening to hate talk radio and instead visit Ellis Island. I can only imagine what a plaque erected there today would state... "Give us your doctors, nurses, and college educated so we can be more prosperous than you..."

Tim, it is interesting how you say that the "It is not America's job to provide a good life for every human being in the world". this is very true, as every nation probably does at some extent, you have to put your own nationals interests first.

However, to claim that "America is already giving generously to bring a better life to Afghans and Iraqis." must be the joke of the year... How exactly do thousands of dead Iraqi and Afghan civilians qualify as better life in these countries? Maybe you meant to say a better life for the rich Americans who get richer due to the benefits of these wars?

Immigration Reform? I call for ostensible acquittal. We have more important, pressing matters at hand.

Let's just put this to rest. No need for enforcement against the immigrants. Just enforce a law against employing 'illegals'. Step up investigation of employers and fine them $100,000.00 for every 'illegal' employee. Once you've eliminated the market there will be no reason for them to enter our country illegally. Only one problem, this tack will never be taken even though it's likely to be the most effective because it's 'anti-business' and god knows we can't do anything that would cut into corporate profits. That's why we continue to enact these useless half-measures. So our elected representatives can say they're doing something even though they just pander to their mindless constituents.

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

1. The first step is to do whatever it takes to minimize illegal immigration. Without this, we're just spinning our wheels and going nowhere. The fence is not the whole answer, but it would help - build it, but make sure it extends to everywhere it is needed. Spend the resources NOW to get the border police the resources (both labor and equipment) necessary for them to do their job properly. Once we can get the influx of illegals immigrants reduced (it'll never be stopped, but that doesn't mean that we don't try), then we can go on to the next steps.

2. All illegal immigrants who have been in this country for less than some defined time (say three or four years) who are not (a) parents of a child born in the USA or (b) married to a US citizen or legal permanent resident gets deported.

3. Most of the rest of the illegal immigrants (those here for longer than four years) are granted amnesty. Use the same basis to determine who should be granted amnesty as we currently use for allowing legal immigrants into the country, plus some additional criteria like their current investment (not just financial) in the country, etc.

This doesn't address a guest worker program. I think we'll find over time that it's not needed, though there'll be a lot of effort expended by business in the short term to make it look like it's necessary.

It also doesn't address security on the northern border. For those who say that the whole illegal immigration issue is a security issue and not economic or racial, keep in mind that more proven terrorists have come into this country via Canada than Mexico.

After reading some of the posts, I think the author has made the point that immigration is a hot button issue.

However, I think many have missed the point about securing the borders.

Don't people remember the at least one of the 9/11 attackers slipped in from Canada?

Have people lost their my minds since 9/11?

A majority of Americans supported the invasion of Iraq, which has cost us 400 billion dollars which we borrowed from China.

The Iraq war has made us less safe. I don't care what Bush says. They are not all in Iraq.

I don't have a problem with immigrants, but I do have a problem with untold numbers of undocumented persons living in the US. It's just too dangerous.

And the hollow egg theory is quite correct

Not only is that bill not funded, once it is funded if e can borrow more money form China or Japan etc., it is up to homeland security chief Michael Chertoff how the money is spent. And besides it is only a 700 mile fence on a 2000 mile border.

The republicans are indeed playing politics and the author was correct to point this out.

Wake up America, your country is being high-jacked by people who only care about remaining in power

I am not American nor Mexican nor an expert on immigration issues. However, I know that if you have a problem, addressing the symptoms only is not good use of one's time and money.

I would think that if Americans wanted Mexicans to stay in their country, they would spend more resources on working with the Mexicans to grow their economy, increase jobs and reduce poverty. In that way, the immigration problem would reduce and the American economy would benefit.

One way to kick-start this process, in my view, would be to reallocate those resources for the fence to more value-adding and sustainable solutions.

Knee-jerk solutions, while vote winning, do not address problems effectively. There is a problem. Now is a good time to get a practical, sustainable solution to that problem.

The construction of the fence seems less a "Berlin wall" and more a "Maginot line". If people want to go around it, they will find a way; or better, the handlers will find a way. Meanwhile, Americans must be careful lest the forces of "moral" superiority gain the upper hand and trade the compassion for which America has long been famous, for a self-protectionist disregard for those "hungry...down-trodden...masses". Where is the "compassionate conservatism" touted yesteryear?

It's a cheap shot, I know.

Canadians sometimes look at US politics with a mix of incredulity and consternation.

Perhaps they would sleep better at night knowing that there was a fence on their border.

The Canadians are famous for their loonies, but the the US political establishment seems to be spending an awful lot of time and resources pandering to loonies as well!

More seriously, building a fence to stop illegal immigration is like building a fence to stop flooding in New Orleans (did they try that?).

This law to anyone who has been listening is a way for politicians to escape making tough decisions. Both parties are split internally with conservatives upset about the President's plan of amnesty and the Democrats seem to have no plan at all. So why is it that 12mm Mexican immigrants are working in the US? They get jobs. American businesses love Mexican workers. It's not just low wages they love. It's how little if any that they need to pay in health care costs. Do you really expect politicians to go after business interests? Not likely. These are the same people donating last minute resources to the campaigns. Both parties are beholden to these special interest groups. Until that changes, forget about real immigration reform.

I have been extremely confused by the debate for a very long time. Are we not a nation of immigrants ? Haven't generations of immigrants started out the very same as the new immiogrants from the south ? My grandparents both imigrated from Europe at the turn of the 20th century,. They too worked the jobs that no 'tenured' citizen would work. Three generations later I can count doctors, engineers,teachers,polititions (every family has roques) and almost every other contributing occupation as occupations held by relatives. Funny part is there were quotas around the turn of the century and some of my grandparent's siblings could not enter the United States. They instead went to South America and also contibuted to their respective communities on other foreign soils. Time has proven that as people move aorund in this world of ours it has proven to be a good thing. It is merely the short term fear that creates the hysteria in people. How frightened the people who move to a strange land must be.

Some honest men with common sense tallying costs and paying bills in Washington are bound to notice that the deficit and trade imbalance causing the decline of the dollar is by far the most frightening issue. Immigration debate takes the focus off this, and the looming financial mega-crisis is swept under the rug to our peril again. I don't question anyone's concern about competition for jobs, but the ridiculous fence is a dangerous diversion from the critical first-things-first approach that MUST be demanded from lawmakers if the US is to SURVIVE the Bush fiasco. Surely we can do better. Could we not insist the corporations that have been allowed to rob this country blind be held accountable to the citizens and pay their share of taxes? Repeal tax cuts to the super wealthy and involve them in honest work to solve problems for the common good? Then repair the social services infrastructure that has been derailed by dollars diverted into Bush's war. This is no time for divisive issues. We must all work together or regardless of immigrants, we may not be working at all.

Wow! Some of these opinions blow my mind!

Bottom line: ILLEGAL immigrants are not entitled to anything from the US. Why? Because they are ILLEGAL. End of subject. Get them out of my country, regardless of where from! We have illegals from all over - Europe, China and other Asian countries, and Mexico and beyond to the south.

It is not up to my govt (US) to provide better working conditions. It is up to their (ILLEGALS) govt to provide them help. Example - Mexico needs to get a grip on their corrupt politicians and distribute their oil money to the people. This would help and would be a start. Also, if you have a baby in US, good for you, now take you child back; it should not automatically qualify for citizenship! The US is one of only six countries that allows this; not UK, not France, etc....

The US was built on immigrants; LEGAL immigrants. So, stay where you are until you become LEGAL. Until then, you are NOT welcome in my country.

Jake - I'm a native American, and I consider myself an American. This is such a stupid comment because this country has long ago gotten over and moved on. The illegal aliens are the leaches running across the border and breaking AMERICAN law - all Americans'(white, black, native indian etc) laws.

As the husband of a legal immigrant to the USA, I have no sympathy for illegal immigrants. They need to go home and wait their turn to come to the USA. That being said, the current racist immigration quota system must be changed, the number of legal immigrants expanded, and penalties for hiring illegal immigrants increased and actually enforced.

The biggest thing most people forget about the immigration issue is that it is about the will of the American people. Most Americans believe that not only should the laws on the books be enforced which to a large part they aren't. More laws should be passed to restrict illegal immigration. The U.S. government is set up to enact the will of the citizens of the U.S. Which is overwhelmingly to crack down and enforce laws concerning illegal immigration. If these laws are considered unconstitutional then the Supreme Court will deal with it it's not the job of the legislature or the executive branch to deal with issues of constitutionallity. Drugs as well as migrant workers come across the Southern border and if we have to keep out a few people who did not intend to legally immigrate to the US then nothing lost. The real victims in this are the people who intended to come to the U.S. legally some of these people are persecuted in their countries such as Christians in countries in the South Pacific who argues to let them in no matter the means? Those were the type of immigrants the US was set up to protect not people who just happen to be neighbors. Yes illegal immigrants contribute to our economy but so do millions of Chinese, I reject the call that money has anything to do with the right to be a citizen of the US. Now most of these sentiments are voiced by the majority of the US populace and therefore our legislature is bound by their obligations of their office to fight like hell for a clear and enforcable immigration policy. The law is the law and any government that places economic or political oppurtunity above it will not stand.

I read an article a few days ago about people who while tired of illegal immigrants going onto their property say that a fence is not the solution. Not only will it not stop the illegals but it will hurt the Rio Grande which is a lifeblood of sorts for people in South Texas. One quote from the article notes

"In the Texas border towns - many of which blossomed right on the riverbanks less distance from Mexico than a football field in a bilingual, binational culture where everyone knows someone on the other side - the fence was widely seen as a federal government misadventure that would trample private property rights without accomplishing anything in return...It is hard to find a South Texas politician, merchant, economic analyst or academic who believes a wall would work - and who does not consider it an insult to the people of Mexico, with whom the region shares a strong social and economic bond, especially since passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement".

So once again Washington tries to "fix" a problem in an election year without consulting the people on the ground.

In this Immigration debate everyone is forgetting about Legal immigrants who came to this country legally, pay taxes and moreover contributing to US economy, I myself is legal immigrant waiting for green card for past 5 years,

Many of Highly skilled legal immigrants are going back to their country and taking their jobs with them, helping many corporate to outsource American jobs

Americans need to know, highly educated legal immigrants help US to keep jobs here in US and contribute to US economy,

Immediate measures to be taken by the US to sreamline immigration:

1. Give local law enforcement agencies the power to enforce immigration laws.

2. Penalize employers who hire illegal aliens.

3. Grant amnesty to those aliens who have been here illegally for more than 5 years. I dont mean granting a citizenship but rather making them pay back taxes, making them learn English and American culture. In short put them on a path to citizenship but after carefully considering their case.

4. Erect and physical as well as a virtual fence across the northern as well as southern borders.

5. Encourage high skilled immigrants as the Canadians, Australians and the British are doing with the use of a point based system.

6. Retain the international students who acquire advanced degrees from the US by defreezing visa regulations. We are losing these talented individuals to other countries with aging demographics or they are returing home to advance their careers.

As usual this country (I am a US citizen) knee jerk reacts to all scenarios, 911 immigration etc.
Illegals are illegal simple, deport them all no amnesty.
Now deal with the cause, crazy immigration quota's, havily biased AGAINST the British, ask thos trying to come here from the UK how racialy prejudiced the London Embassy is?
The USA needs overseas investors and LEGAL immigrants to fill the ever widening job shortfall list as the boomers retired.
We need to fix the cause and not the synptom, and certainly not give amnesty no matter how long they have been here, as this just encourages more

Perhaps those who want a wall are simply afraid of the Mexicans doing to the current inhabitants of North America what the descendants of the current inhabitants of North America did to the previous inhabitants of North America.
We can't have all them thar furriners just a'waltzin on in here and takin over the place, ya know....

I am a LEGAL alien. I have studied upto the Master's level. I've invested a lot of time, money, hopes in this country. I have been waiting 6 years for my Green Card. I think the Legal Immigration process is broken.Here's whats wrong
1)80% of the Green Cards given each year are Family-based and lottery. 20% are Employment-based(skilled workers).Why? Family based should be just your closest family - spouse,children, maybe parents. Not brother, sisters, cousins. This leads to an endless chain.

2)The time taken to get a green card is very long. Promotions, job mobility etc., are affected by it. if I lose my job in the meantime for some reason, I am required to leave in 30 days. Which means I need to sell my house, car and the rest of the belongings and run because I'll be illegal on the 31st day, which means I would not be able to get a job legally after that. It's a really vulnerable situation for legals also. Thats why there is exploitation in the LEGAL labor market also.

They lawmakers need to fix these problems.

I really like this country. There are lots of honest, hard-working people here. I like the vibe here. I feel free. I think U.S. is the best country in the world.