91Èȱ¬

Of course, one of your own correspondents was heard to say on Five Live that the most exciting thing about these documents was the Top Secret strap across the top...

One piece of television news footage was slightly dubious too. It showed the documents being handed over to the police and placed into an evidence bag - outside the main entrance to reception at Television Centre. Surely this was grandstanding; should this not have been done in a much more secure environment?!

Am I just getting cynical in my old age?

Strange how, whenever the Bush Administration started to get into some form of political trouble there was a "security scare". Now it seems the UK government is doing the same... the timing of this find about the threat of terrorism and the 42 day debate is immensely convenient.

Fran:

Interesting blog!

How can a government loss a such a senstitive file....

This Govt. can lose anything. There definitely needs to be vastly improved security from the top down. Any chance of the Police using the new 42 day detention on the bosses and supervisors? I doubt it. The terrorist legislation is only being used on parents and those who put the wrong rubbish in dustbins.
And Kelvin McKenzie thinks all is well in 1984 UK

Major broadcasters have enormous power but a clear responsibility. Highly confidential files especially related to security should be treated with the utmost care and integrity.Nevertheless this news story highlights human errors, carelessness and gross individual neglience. More than the lack of security procedures and rules. Whitehall needs to get its act together! National security is at stake!

Did the 91Èȱ¬ consulted the approriate departments in the 91Èȱ¬ Bureaux regarding on how to report this story.

It would be interesting to know how to paper goes from the person who found them on the train to Frank Gardner? Did they go through lots of different people at the Beeb, or did the person who found them hand them to Frank personally?

Oh come on..................The loss of TS material on the same train line in the same week........do you not think the 91Èȱ¬ are being made scapegoats!!! come on not even the 91Èȱ¬ could be that stupid...................could they!!! Look around no other news network is commenting on this issue!!!

UPDATE:

there could be a part 2 to the story:


question: what is the security services doing
to protect the national (and) international secrets.

laptops missing .... files left on trains .... child benefit data cds lost ..... should we really be even considering the use of british ID computer cards ??
chairman
oneparentfamily group

Can the 91Èȱ¬ stop treating us as nieve? The people that gave them to you and to the Independant have broken the Official Secrets Act themselves: they should have given the papers to the Police. Why did they not do so? Those were deliberate and calculated leaks.

Following on from SurbitonSteve's comments.
There Is another way at looking at this and that Is the LEAKS have come just at the RIGHT TIME to have a GO AT Labour and the more you look at It the more that It looks like a SET UP,as for the other either LEAKS or TOP SECRET papers that are either lost or stolen.
If you check the History of when the Conservatives were In Power. Files and Information were leaked and at times on a regular basis and especially If Labour were In Political trouble.
It's obvious that the TOP SECRET Document was left by mistake as no one would deliberately put there JOB AT RISK. But as to the others watch the politics between the parties and see how often these things happen!!!:-( how sad has politics become.

Then BOTH Parties wonder why VOTERS are not turning OUT to Vote at Election's no-matter whether there General Election's or Local By-Election's as I've said HOW SAD.

To leave one set of secret documents on a train Ms. Smith, may be regarded as a misfortune; to leave two looks like deliberateness.
And another thing, the handover of the documents at the 91Èȱ¬ was farcical, how many fingers must have handled them previously, so what was the purple gloves and plastic bag all about, just a stunt for the cameras?

Re #10: As Jimmy Carr observed, why do we need a card with our fingerprints and retinas anyway? We all carry them around without the need for a card!

Re#11: You can't break the OSA if you haven't signed it first!

In response to a separate email it was suggested that Frank Gardner "needed" to read them to calibrate just how sensitive they were. Doesn't the classification make the opinion of the authors clear? By the way, I hope only one 91Èȱ¬ individual, Frank Gardner, read the documents. Seems to me that the 91Èȱ¬ is getting above itself.

And actually we do not "know that Whitehall's procedures on handling this material are clearly at fault". It seems that someone disregarded some perfectly clear procedures and it would require some sort of document tagging or electronic encryption to prevent people ignoring procedures.

Do you know something it cracks me up, obviously this is a very serious breach of security but unfortunately the ho hay henries of the ministry of defence will sit in their posh clubs with their posh pink gins gwarfing over the snafu of this plonka he'll get a slapped wrist and the luxury of bragging he dropped a klanger. he's stupid enough to not realise he had put the life's of thousands of very brave men and women at risk.
Now think of the other scenario if it was someone of a lower rank they probably would have lost their job or have gone to prison even both. they probably would have found it next to impossible to get a job, because their bosses would have been so indignant, puffing out their collective chests and flagged that persons work record as untrustworthy.
So come on lets play fair for once and expect nothing less for this irresponsible nerk.

I heard on the radio "Incredibly, 2 Top Secret files were lost on the same day".

Indeed, incredible. The files were planted either:

a) deliberately via a government agent to garner support for the 42 day detention (and suspension of Habeus Corpus);

or

b) er... actually, I cannot think of any other reason why they were deliberately planted.

But it is too incredible that they were "lost" the same day.

Hand it over to the police. Probably the correct way but would it ever have come to public notice if they had. The Police have signed the OSA so theoretically they could not tell the media. And you an be certain that this Govt is not going to broadcast their incompetence.
Just as well i was done the way it was!

Why would the government have planted them there to gain support for 42 days when it works so badly against them? A desperate idea from a parties supporter desperate to find as many insults as possible to the Government

As with all these stories it is an individuals incompetence or design. that has led to this security breach. The timing is a little suspicious so soon after the 42 day vote.

With these documents and the stolen computer with the wrongly emailed document. my suspicions are that someone might be trying to set up the government. Could be wrong though.

Was it found on the train in that big bright orange 'look at me' folder on TV news covered handover? and why was it taken to the 91Èȱ¬? The person who found it definitely had a political agenda.

"But it is too incredible that they were "lost" the same day."

I agree.
________

I think they were a plant of MI5/6.

Terrorists could be planning something. If they thought that MI5/6 were onto their plan then they might abandon the mission.

The Germans were told where and when the D-Day Invasion was to take place. Yet they ignored it as misinformation from British Spies.

______

Why go to the 91Èȱ¬ with the files?
That is strange. The 91Èȱ¬ do not pay for news stories. Why did they not take them to The Times or Telegraph?

If someone found plans for a dirty bomb attack in Britain I would like to think they would go to the police first not the 91Èȱ¬.

Hi Haydon, thanks for the comment. I think going to the 91Èȱ¬ with the discovered files is a perfectly acceptable response for a member of the public. Note that 2 separately files were lost, the other turned in (by someone else) to the Independent.

I don't understand dhwilkinson's comment that the person finding (one) file had a political agenda. I think the person leaking the documents had an agenda: more government fear mungering about terrorists and Iran's WMDs.

(While terrorism should be fought, it should not be at the expense of giving up our Human Rights)

Listening to the comments on the Today Program about this story, it is nice to know that the civil servant responsible could possibly be disciplined, and this could even affect their career prospects.

I am being sarcastic. They should be summarily fired and lose their pension rights too, just as they would be in the private sector. It is quite scary how accurate "Yes, Minister" was..........

Why can't you get the transliteration from the Arabic correct, even when, right in front of you, there's a better example to follow?

"Qaeda" is undoubtedly wrong - there's no 'e' in Arabic. (There is an 'i' and an 'ee' but no 'e'.) The closest transliteration would perhaps be al-Qa`ida, with the backtick indicating the Arabic letter `yn or ayn, and some media do follow this (e.g. The Independent). However, the compromise displayed prominently at the top of the secret report is a reasonable one: al-Qaida.

All the 91Èȱ¬ has to do is copy it!

Fran:
To answer your questions: it would have broken many laws on the information you presented...