91Èȱ¬

Useless. The 91Èȱ¬ have no commitment to Freeview any more or they would be trying to acquire more space for the red button instead of HD services most of us won't get for 2 years and will require equipment upgrades.

Can you replicate F1 HQ streams for the 'lost' material that will only be online?

Why does 'Free'view have so many pay channels on it, the 91Èȱ¬ should lobby ofcom to get all the topup, gambling, chatline garbage removed, I would have thought it more important for the 91Èȱ¬ to be on the number 1 platform for terrestrial TV, rather than abandoning a red button stream and poncing off to satellite.

Snooker and motogp is the one that will suffer from this. Plus I wont be able to watch Strum V on freeview next Friday

Overall it's not too bad, I watch the majority of the sports on my computer anyway where available, and plan to have freesat installed soon...losing one small stream on freeview isn't the worst news in the world :D

Pre-moderation - every single message is checked before it appears on the board. All of the 91Èȱ¬'s children's message boards are supervised in this way.
-------
Why are you treating us like kids?

First, you cut Grandstand and Roger Mosey said...we will offer more to viewers on the red button, now you cut services on the red button via Freeview.
Im very angry that the 91Èȱ¬ can keep slicing Sports coverage.
The again, some days, the red button is pathetic, just the sports news.
So 91Èȱ¬, you think people will watch via the Internet...are you the new Kentaro?
Thinking that the TV is not a good platform, now the Internet....sorry 91Èȱ¬, people will watch on TV regardless, but who, WHO wants HD on Freeview...not me leave that to Sky and Virgin Media.
Because Sports are shown in HD...oh yeh...the 'major' events...once every year or every 4 years....what about when theres no Sports on HD? Waste of time it will be, why scrap a freeview Sports feed for HD?

does this mean we'll get HD on freeview then?

Watching sport live on the internet just isn't the same, and should not be treated as a viable alternative to TV coverage. Not everyone, especially in rural areas, has good enough broadband to watch without the video stalling all the time you know!

Considering the public finance the 91Èȱ¬ and it is an organsiation which is supposed to reflect the public's interests, I think a 91Èȱ¬ Sport channel should replace 91Èȱ¬ Parliament on Freeview. It will be more watched and be of more interest to more people than a recording of some debates on a tedious topic from two weeks ago. I suspect the first victims of this re-shuffle will be the 125cc/250cc shown before MotoGP races, and Magners League rugby. Two sports which are shown exclusively free on the red button, and which are completely unsuitable for internet viewing.

That said, obviously the arrival of HD to Freeview is good news, and I hope sports events will play a big part in the HD schedule. Word is that Mr Ecclestone is bringing F1 into HD next year, now that demand for it is high enough. Also hoping Six Nations and Rugby Autumn Internationals will be HD too.

When i first heard this, as a big user of the red button and and as i only have access to Freeview, i was pretty annoyed.... but actually most of the stuff on it is just looped which is totally unnecessary cos we can record the red button on freeview, which is its advantage over Sky/cable.

So what it now needs is clear scheduling in the listings mags etc so we know exactly whats on when. So tomorrow on the red button on freeview could be like this....

5.50am MOTOGP: MALAYSIAN GRAND PRIX QUALIFYING LIVE
6.00-6.40 125cc
6.55-7.55 MotoGP
8.10-8.55 250cc
9.00am 5LIVE: THE DANNY BAKER SHOW
11.00am 91Èȱ¬ ELECTRIC PROMS
11.00 Robbie Williams
12.00 Dizzee Rascal
1.00-2.00 Doves
2.30pm FINAL SCORE
5.25pm MATCH OF THE DAY LIVE
Derby v QPR - Audio options.
7.30pm 91Èȱ¬ ELECTRIC PROMS
7.30 Robbie Williams
8.30 Dizzee Rascal
9.30 Doves
10.40pm THE THICK OF IT EXTRA
11.00pm 91Èȱ¬ ELECTRIC PROMS
11.00 Robbie Williams
12.00 Dizzee Rascal
1.00 Doves
2.00-3.00 Shirley Bassey
3.45am-6.15am MOTOGP: MALAYSIA LIVE
4.00 125cc Race Live
5.15 250cc Race Live

That actually has more than we are getting tomoro with 2 streams (Freeview wont get Danny Baker or the Football audio options tomoro even tho theyre on Sky/Cable cos of the electric proms) - but with this theres a lot less looping.

So will there be some more intelligent scheduling and more info on schedules so you can cram more in please?

although i now have sky, i was once stuck with freeview. the whole hd debacle is a discrace and the interactive services on freeview should not have suffered, if people want hd they should get sky or freesat, hd on freeview for *everyone* wont be available for years, as usual manchester or london get the best service

Thank you for boasting about all your fancy changes to video delivery. As someone outside the UK, I *love* being told of all the new toys I can't play with.

People wanted HDTV on the DTT platform, now they're getting it they are to dim to grasp the fact that you can't get a quart into a pint pot.

You wanted HD on the DTT platform - now start living with it!

'Its digital its better' ...... no it isn't! I have not bothered with digital Ceefax for years now, its just 'slow', and the best bit about the digital platform was the red button, and now that's being eroded. And just how many people realize that all of their present set top boxes are 'HD' redundant and they need new ones?

Frankly, there is still only a small minority of pople with HD tvs, and in the middle of the longest recession in recorded history, people don't want to go out and buy new tvs. You claim that these services are available on satellite and online. Howver, you neglect to think about the fact that a) It can be expensive for people to stream long periods of video (If people use more than their allowance in a quarter they can be charged a fee by their ISP). Also, not everyone has the opportunity to get freesat (Those in rented accomodation), and a large proportion of people can't afford to pay for cable.

Remember, we ALL PAY THE SAME LICENCE FEE!!! That should mean a homogenous service for everyone. If that means not moving towards HD, then so be it! The 91Èȱ¬ have recently been cutting budgets all over the shop, and now is not the time to be investing in HD broadcasting!

I think the reaction to Rahul Chakkara's blogs will tell you what people think of this decision. If, like me, people want HD coverage, get Sky or Freesat, who offer it without compromising other services. Considering the amount of rubbish of Freeview, it's scandalous that the 91Èȱ¬ are removing a popular service to accommodate HD. Not to mention the fact that, for now, it's only going to be available in London/Manchester, and will require a new box. I bet STB manufacturers love this decision.

I don't even use Freeview, but I hope the 91Èȱ¬ seriously reconsider this move.

Although i said earlier this would be ok with a bit of well thought out, intelligent scheduling, i also think it would be a very good idea if a second red button stream was made available at weekends by sharing with 91Èȱ¬ Parliament. Parliament can run 6am Mon - 6pm Fri, with the second red button stream running over the weekend.

Seems like a good idea to me, any chance of this happening?

Will I need a new set top box or will the box built in to my HDTV work fine?

Hi Ben - Can you give us an assurance that 301 will remain fully available to interactive services? There have been reports on Digital Spy and other media-savvy outlets that 91Èȱ¬ Three and C91Èȱ¬ will be increasing their hours, and that 301 may be given over to them. Losing 302 is clearly a blow to Sport. Losing 301 as well would be utterly disastrous.

I'm a student - there is no way I can afford more than the set-top box I've already invested in. Which, incidentally, I bought primarily for the sports on the red button - mindful of the Winter Olympics and Wimbledon in particular.

I also often try and do work on my computer while keeping an eye on the sport on the TV - guess I won't be able to do that any more!

Isn't this precisely the sort of decision where the 91Èȱ¬ could have consulted its viewers? I know we can't have everything, and I know the majority can't always decide, or there would be wall to wall football and no cycling. But given a choice between two red button streams and one stream alongside HD, we can give an opinion. The 91Èȱ¬ can't be bound by it, but it could show it had listened.

Just to clarify... 302 and News Red Button services are being scrapped this month. To get HD you will need a new Freeview HD box. HD won't be available in the whole of the UK until 2012.

So by removing red button services for HD they are not only taking away service everyone can receive on a Freeview box for something only a very small % of viewers will be able to get. And it won't be ready for another two years in the whole of the UK.

Also, HD will only work properly if you have a really good signal. Whereas the red buttons will.

Makes you wonder who the 91Èȱ¬ actually consulted about this.

Bit of extra info here- although the freeview HD starts in the London area in December, some other areas won't get it until their area switches over completeley to digital. That, for me here in North Yorkshire, means a wait of over 2 years, til 2012. And that will be the case for many more too. We will be losing 2 years of freeview coverage for no gain. Disgraceful

I demand that the 91Èȱ¬ refund part of my license fee, or buy me a freesat box and dish.

We know from the feedback we get that HD is increasingly popular with sports fans and this development will mean that even more viewers get to watch 91Èȱ¬ Sport's big events in the best possible quality.

Your commitment to HD doesn't seem to extend to some of the championship matches you've won the right to this season - like tonight's for example.

91Èȱ¬ 3 + 4 do not transmit during the day. Why are they not used for sport etc during the day instead of red button or in addition to this?

@ wrustle

91Èȱ¬ 3/4 share space with C91Èȱ¬/CBeebies so can't be used during the day.

"91Èȱ¬ 3 + 4 do not transmit during the day. Why are they not used for sport etc during the day instead of red button or in addition to this?"

Because the space that's used for 91Èȱ¬3 and 91Èȱ¬4 in the evening is used for C91Èȱ¬ and Cbeebies during the day.

Grr, this is a complete and utter joke. You're putting something on the red button that nobody will use, in place of sport streams that evrybody watches?? Smart move 91Èȱ¬. So now when i go to channels 301 and 302 for snooker streams i'm going to get the 91Èȱ¬'s favourite players on 301and pointless HD on 302. So i won't get to watch my favourites anymore, thanks 91Èȱ¬..glad to see the license fee is being used wisely.

Talk about an over-reaction! Seems to me the 91Èȱ¬ are just tinkering with the services they offer a little, in order to compete with sky and cable.
It's pathetic that you're all getting so annoyed! It's not as though we're losing an actual channel.
On the red button now we're only getting extended final score extra. What a loss that'll be!?!

I read on one of the comments that the News Red button is going - Why?
Who wants HD anyway? Not me. Also, is it just me who gets absolutely nothing on Freeview Channel 305?
I'm starting to agree with my mother; digital tv is ill thought out and stupid compared to the simple analogue system that my Pembrokeshire family home lost in September.

#13 When Ofcom announced the plan with 91Èȱ¬ and ITV agreement, there was NO mention of losing 91Èȱ¬ services. CH4 were to vacate a channel on the ITV/4 mux for 91Èȱ¬ use. This is not happening and therefore we are not getting what was promised in the deal. The 91Èȱ¬ losing two services WAS NOT planned at all. I suspect that the furore over ITV3 and ITV4 being lost by Freeview Lite has made CH4 go back on the 91Èȱ¬ Space on that MUX.

... and of course the real villain in this is the Government and their servants Ofcom taking bandwidth from UHF TV for other purposes post switchover. The Broadcasters should have protested more over this.

What on earth are you doing? This is the most ridiculous decision I have heard in a while. Why should we lose sporting coverage on freeview, unfortunately the downfall of freeview is that you receive less channels. So you now are taking one of these channels away from us, that sounds fair. So people with satelite or cable don't suffer, woopdeedoo. Thank you 91Èȱ¬ for taking more sport away, I'm sure this will impact on tennis coverage, moto gp and snooker. Oh yes, but lets make way for a weeks highlights of the same F1 race again (Boring!)
And just for the record, sometimes computers are slow and therefore the coverage is disrupted so the sporting footage we are losing will be of a poorer quality. Once again, thanks a lot. 21st century and we are taking a step backwards in a way. Rant over.

I imagine the 91Èȱ¬ sports people are as upset about this vile decision as the viewers. Freeview should have the full range of "interactive" additional channels, same as satellite. Reducing to a mere one to make way for a semi-HD service that isn't yet broadcast, requires equipment which isn't yet available, and which most people don't want is so obviously wrong as to beggar believe. There are also questions regarding free space on the C4 multiplex which the 91Èȱ¬ could use, and some technical measures which could be taken to free up space for HD while allowing 302 to continue.

There's something far deeper and darker afoot here I think, and sports broadcasters and viewers alike are the losers.

"We know from the feedback we get that HD is increasingly popular with sports fans and this development will mean that even more viewers get to watch 91Èȱ¬ Sport's big events in the best possible quality. Next year promises to be a big year for sport - the World Cup, Wimbledon and the Open golf will all now be broadcast in HD on Freeview."

Only trouble with that statement is that it is blatantly untrue, the 91Èȱ¬ knows full well that only a small minority will be able to get a HD DVB-T (Freeview HD) service once the service starts and the new STBs become available in the High Street - which will not be for some time anyway. Those who want their sport in HD can already access it via HD Freesat - when the 91Èȱ¬ chooses to actually buy/broadcast such content - by making these changes, and I accept that the 91Èȱ¬ has had both it's arms and legs twisted by Ofcom and their commercial partners, the 91Èȱ¬ is actually removing available sports coverage, are you seriously suggesting that if sports fans can't see it in HD they would prefer not to see it at all?!...

Why are you selling on the space in areas that aren't getting HD for a while instead of continuing to broadcast the service until they get it?

This all reeks of something especially because the 91Èȱ¬ were given an extra space on Channel 4's multiplex to avoid this problem.

Why not get rid of some of these useless babe/shopping/gambling/91Èȱ¬ Three channels instead?

You will regret this

Was shocked and disappointed to see this happen. I don't have HD and am only losing here. Surely the point of Freeview is to be an entry level digital service, but you upgrade the bit people have to pay out extra money to receive and reduce the already limited terrestrial sports coverage.

Will this affect red button coverage of the Bowls in Scotland next week? Currently red button is the only way viewers south of the border have been able to view this event. Likewise the Welsh tournament in February next year.

It seems a waste for 91Èȱ¬ production teams to attend these two events when only 91Èȱ¬ Scotland and 91Èȱ¬ Wales viewers can see them. Come on 91Èȱ¬, either show them on terrestial so everyone can see the events or keep them on the red button.

This is mad. Why are you doing this?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

What a well thought out decision.

grahambrack in message 22 is spot on.

It would have been nice to let the licence payers have an opinion on the plans. The survey currently being undertaken by the 91Èȱ¬ Trust on the licence payers views of the Red Button service (/bbctrust/%29 appears to be a little bit late as the decision about the service has already been made for Freeview users.

As r1_fan says in #10 a clearer thought out strategy for using the remaining space on 301 and less of the continual looping would be at least some help. Although I have doubts that 301 will last too much longer.

There's a saying "Nothing in life is free" This certainly applies here. I support the "Unique" way the 91Èȱ¬ is funded and begrudgingly pay to have top-up services via cable to get the best of both worlds because I live in one of the areas NOT covered by Freeview services. Oh how I waited for the day that I could watch it all for free, but,alas, no longer. Pay for the licence that provides the service, pay again to watch it. TOTAL CON.

In addition to boilerplated's points in post 36, the suggestion that viewers want HD over extra channels is a nonsense. The last survey I know of shows the public want the exact opposite by a considerable margin (40% extra channels to 23% HD)

Perhaps Ben can point us to some more recent research that suggests Freeview viewers now want HD over extra channels? Judging by the responses in these blogs, though, I somehow doubt it.

Yet to hear one sensible argument for this change.
Don't know whether it is 91Èȱ¬ fault, Ofcoms or the Governments but I do not care about HD and would like more red button options not less.

Well this coming weekend looks like we will be missing
Saturday 7
Rugby Union

1700-1930 Live coverage of Wales v New Zealand, with commentary options. (Not available on Freeview.)

while on Sunday 8

the Football League Show will finish early so they can show the Moto gp

So not as bad as this weekend just gone (obviously stopped showing Shirley Bassey) but bad news for those wanting the rugby or get up late for the football league show.

Hi Ben, you are very quiet on this subject. Perhaps it would be a good idea to respond to the questions and criticism of this.

Already this weekend (on a rather quiet weekend for sport really) this has severely affected coverage on Freeview, and the space needs to be found ASAP, by February at the latest in time for the Winter Olympics.

Hi there - I can answer a few of the specific queries here.

2. As it stands, we can only offer HQ video online on a limited number of live events. However, we are working on expanding this in the very near future so more live sports are available in HQ.
4. We still hope to be able to offer Scrum V as often as possible - certainly the majority of Scrum V matches will remain available.
29. Admittedly, the two-table offering from major snooker events will be a difficult one for us. Where possible, we will aim to offer the alternative table to that being shown on the network channel, so two tables will be on offer for at least some of the time.
49. For absolute clarity, Freeview viewers can of course watch the Wales v New Zealand rugby union match this Saturday as it is available on 91Èȱ¬ Two. What will be unavailable are the commentary options.

May as well ask this quesiotn here as it's not been answered where I posted it last time: what coverage will there be of the Winter Paralympics this time round? It was a few years ago when all we got was two hours' highlights on 91Èȱ¬ Two on a Sunday afternoon some time after the closing ceremony ...

I have just had a look and found the freeview HD does not start until March 2010 so why have we lost the extra red button feeds so soon.
As somebody whos broadband is very slow 1mp on a good day trying to watch on the internet does not work.

Typical - Like analogue to digital services before - no consultation just a cursory explaination about what is being done to OUR Services that we pay for -
Does the 91Èȱ¬ still maintain that they have a public mandate because there are a few "commoners" in the 91Èȱ¬ trust?

52. At 5:32pm on 03 Nov 2009, Matt Millington - 91Èȱ¬ Sport Video Portals Editor wrote:
4. We still hope to be able to offer Scrum V as often as possible - certainly the majority of Scrum V matches will remain available.

pity Eastenders is more important