England v Scotland player ratings
- 3 Feb 07, 07:45 PM
Twickenham - After witnessing at first hand England's Calcutta Cup victory, here are my ratings for the players of both sides.
Let me know if you agree or disagree below this post.
England
Morgan - 6: A solid if unspectacular debut. Failed to claim one first-half bomb but otherwise cool in defence and hit the line well when given the chance.
Lewsey - 6: Ran hard when given the ball and as ever hit hard in defence, but it was one of those days when the action was on the other wing.
Tindall - 7: Looked much happier powering around in the wide open spaces at outside centre and struck up a good rapport with Farrell.
Farrell - 7: Nothing spectacular from the ex Great-Britain rugby league captain but he looked totally at home, took responsibility when necessary and there were glimpses of power as well.
Robinson - 8: Marked his return from international retirement by taking his first try brilliantly and added a sharp second for good measure.
Wilkinson - 9 What can you say? Kicked almost immaculately, distributed well, took good options, robust in defence, produced a superb pass for Robinson’s try and was even awarded a try.
Ellis - 9: Rivalled Wilkinson for man-of-the-match. The recalled scrum-half made three brilliant breaks and thoroughly enjoyed himself, even if his service sometimes looked laboured.
Freshwater - 7: Played his part in the front-row effort as England took apart the Scots in the scrum.
Chuter - 7: He played his part in the tight and around the park but missed his jumper for the try and showed the odd moment of indiscipline.
Vickery - 8: The new England captain was part of a huge effort from the front row in the scrums and threw himself around with gusto in the loose.
Deacon - 7: He was outshone by his partner around the park but there were moments of class, including a fine take from a re-start.
Grewcock - 8 : Bar the odd alarm he was good in the line-out and he was a real handful around the park in a powerful England display.
Worsley - 8: He only lasted an hour, but in the first half he showed the sort of form he regularly produces for Wasps. Tackled with power and was more prominent with ball in hand.
Lund - 7: England’s back-row balance was better and although Lund did not tear up any trees he held his own and scored a late try.
Corry - 7: Freed from the worries of captaincy he ran his heart out and made sure the Scots could never get on the front foot.
Replacements:
Rees - 6: Came on for Worsley for his first cap after an hour and held his own.
White, Mears and Flood all had too little time to make an impact.
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Scotland
Southwell - 6: The Scottish full-back had few chances to shine in attack and although he tried his best in defence he could do little halt the English attacks.
S Lamont - 5: He made one rampaging second-half run but made a complete hash of an Ellis kick-through for Robinson’s second try.
Di Rollo - 5: One booming second-half kick and that was pretty much it. Out-gunned by the English midfield, he did at least last the 80 minutes.
Henderson - 5: He tackled his heart out but England’s power was too much for the lanky centre to make any real impression.
Paterson - 7: Scotland’s most effective back with ball in hand until Dewey’s arrival, he also kicked well to keep them in the game for a while.
Parks - 5: He produced some good kicking from hand in the first half but ducked out of one high ball and could never set the Scottish backline in motion.
Cusiter - 6: He would have loved to have been behind the dominant England pack. Tried to snipe and prompt but little chance to make his mark before going off after 66 minutes.
Kerr - 4: Struggled throughout in the tight and was anonymous in the loose. Replaced by Jacobsen after 56 minutes.
Hall - 6: His accurate line-out work salvaged an otherwise difficult day for the hooker, who did well to keep his focus despite a beasting in the scrums.
E Murray – 4: The tight-head endured a torrid day trying to anchor the light-weight Scottish scrum and will not remember the match with much affection.
Kellock - 6: Scotland’s go-to man in the line-out and did his job well, but otherwise struggled to match the power of the English forwards.
Hamilton - 5: He was brought in to try and add some ballast to the Scottish eight but could not make much of an impression.
Taylor - 6: Taylor, who has played much of his rugby at eight for Scotland, took his try well and led the resistance in defence but was eventually submerged.
Brown - 5: Could not earn the Scots much turnover ball and with that supply cut off, the Scots struggled to get into the game.
Callam - 6: Along with his back-row colleagues, gave his all and tackled everything that moved, but in the end he could do little to the turn the white tide.
Replacements:
S Murray - 6: Maybe should have started, given his line-out expertise, and a 52nd-minute arrival was too late.
Jacobsen - 6: Tried to give energy in the front-row battle but by that stage Scotland were on the back foot.
Dewey - 7: Took his try very well and gave the Scottish backs the pace and power they had been sorely lacking for most of the game.
Lawson - 6: Held his own after he replaced Cusiter after 66 minutes.
Rory Lamont, Ally Hogg and Ross Ford had little time to make an impression.
Wales 27-18 England
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Ellis played like a great scrum-half today. I remember Kyran Brackens first England match against the All-Blacks, when (if memory serves me well), Jamie Joseph stamped on his ankle after about 10 minutes. Bracken mustered his strength and drove his forwards on like a man posessed that day. Ellis did it today. Good for you! Looking forward to many more fine games from you in an England shirt.
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I agree with your England player ratings. I would probably mark Chuter one rung lower. He committed a number of indiscretions which cost England after fine work by the pack.
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cusiter was the best performer on the pitch barr wilkinson and ellis considering he had just returned. why are the bbc so biased against scotland???
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I think that's a fair assessment. I think for a bit, playing the kicking game with Parks was a good option, especially the build - up to the 1st try, but it was always their fall-to option. There was no creativity in the midfield. In some repescts, we have had the problems that England have in their midfield. Although Farrell and Tindall did well, they weren't ground - breaking. It was exciting to see Paterson at Fly - half!
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Wilkinson - 9 What can you say?
Answer 10 - that's what you can say!
In his last game for England he won us the world cup. In this game he dragged us back into the realms of respectability. Mild mannered, modest, gentlemanly - the bloke's a hero.
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will England get any praise from the Celts for this win I wonder ? A win is a win but I suspect that the shrouds of old nationalism may just impair the vision somewhat ! for me after all these months it is a win, so us English rejoice at that.Let's wait to hear the view north of the border - I can hardly wait ! If the roles were reversed as theywere in the last game how many scots were what I would say - magnanimous ! hard one !
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Wilkinson - 9 What can you say?
Answer 10 - that's what you can say!
In his last game for England he won us the world cup. In this game he dragged us back into the realms of respectability. Mild mannered, modest, gentlemanly - the bloke's a hero.
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re: the Olly Morgan high ball. The reason he didn't get it was that he was obstructed, so not really his fault.
Wilko 9? He missed 2 kicks!!! ;)
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I cant believe the marks given to the English. They got there by conning the ref and cheating. How can a player stay on the park with blood on his face.
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Generous on the marks for most of England and all of Scotland (apart from Cusitor).
Vickery, Grewcock, Worsley and Lund for the English forwards were dominant all through the game and deserved their marks. The English half backs were very good, again deserved their marks.
Rest of the England team were average at best and all deserved sixes.
Scotland weren't in the game, the backs barely touched the ball as whatever ball came to the fly half was kicked away, so can't give them any marks. Parks deserves a three for his 1st phase kicking game (unless that was the Scots gameplan). Cusitor worked well around the scrum.
Scottish pack tried but were overwhelmed, fours and fives for all of them.
All Scottish backs from 11 - 15 could well have the comment 'had too little ball to make an impression'
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I think that's a fair assessment. I think for a bit, playing the kicking game with Parks was a good option, especially the build - up to the 1st try, but it was always their fall-to option. There was no creativity in the midfield. In some repescts, we have had the problems that England have in their midfield. Although Farrell and Tindall did well, they weren't ground - breaking. It was exciting to see Paterson at Fly - half!
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Think most of the ratings are ok. I am an English supporter but think that your rating of Cusiter is on the harsh side as he has come back from injury and made a significant impact on the game. Would rank him as the pick of Scotland. For England, I think Lund had a very good game and would be worth at least a 7. Wilkinson and Ellis were the pick of the day.
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Is it time once more to rely on the referee?
It's great to see Jonny back and England were rampant fully deserving their win but has the television replay finally shown that it is nothing but a gimmic to hypen tension and demean the man in control - the ref.
As he ref appeared to say to Chris Patterson "no try" why did he not have conviction in his ability to rule without referring it to the replay.
Sport is simply that and the person in control is the ref - good or bad let's believe in them and do away with the replay that has now shown it is just as fallible.
Why break the flow of the game after all good or bad it is simply a game.
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I dont agree with Andy Farrel was an 7. He wasent in the game at any point. he might have made a couple of good passes but that was it. the media was saying that Farrel would be smashing through Dan Parks at any chance he had. he couldnt get past the Scotland Defence all day. I do agree with Wilkinson geting a 9. He was brilliant throughout the game but his try was never a try.
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Can't argue with your assessment of the squads. For all of Englands problems over the last 18 months, it was nice to finally see the players playing in their specialized positions and not just thrown in to cover positions that they do not play at club level.
As for Wilkinson, is it really 3 years since he wore the famous white shirt with the rose? It looked like he had never been away and he looked gutted when he was subbed, but I think Ashton did the right thing by bringing him off. Was it a gamble? YES and NO. YES, because he has only played 20 or so minutes of club rugby in a handful of appearences over the last couple of years and there was no guarentee that he would break apart after serving up one of his infamous crunching tackles. NO, they say form is comporary but class is permanent. Not much to add to that really, he had a great game, but I would argue that Ellis was the Man of the Match as he also had an excellent game.
I hope the pundits and those who wish to see England fail, do not hype up and get on the 'England are only a one-man team' bandwagon as this display was as good as any I have seen from England since 2003.
We need to make sure that we do not get punished after making silly mistakes (Scotland's first try a case in point) and concentrate on improving on an already good looking team.
Will we win the Grand Slam? Probably not, but I know that with Brian Ashton in charge and the big Cornishman at the helm, this England team will give all they have got to win the next 4 games.
As an Englishman living in Cardiff, what I would give for a Wales vs England Grand Slam decider at 17.30pm on Saturday 17th March 2007. Now that is day out, win or lose, that I will not forget in a hurry.
Good luck England and c'mon Wales for tomorrow. You may not like us, but I bet every Welshman is hoping the same even though I know they (my friends at least hehehe) will not publicly support England against anyone.
SWING LOW SWEET CHARIOT - ITS LOOKING GOOD AGAIN !!!
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two robinsons? nowonder we won , muppet
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Maybe England won because they had two Robinson's playing ;)
Bit harsh on Morgan as he was taken out when he dropped that high ball.
Also I think Tindall was much better than you seem to suggest.
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I would generally agree with the ratings. However, I would have been tempted to award Ellis 10. By keeping the Scottish fringe defence honest, he created much more time for Wilkinson to shine.
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I couldnt agree more with the assessment althogh i think wilkos 28 points was a well deserved man of the match award! It went against everything the critics and pundits said, stating countless tims about lack of preparation. However i disagree and think if england have the right players on the field and world class ones at that, who needs preparation when england perform like that? We still have 8 months before the world cup and if johnny can continue in the white shirt then we have a real chance at retaining the world cup this year.
Wilko is a legend and proved what a professional sportsman he really is and how it should be done. Hes played 50 odd matches and scored 800 points. Theres no doubt hes well on the way to becoming the top rugby point scorer of all time in the next 5 years or so! Weldone england! keep it up!
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Was Rees who came on as a replacement Tom Rees who has a Welsh father?
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Was Rees who came on as a replacement Tom Rees who has a Welsh father?
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I agree with the majority of the previous comments, however my main point is regarding Jonney Wilkinson. I am absolutely delighted for him as his performsnce today was truely outstanding. He is a totally devoted Rugby player, that although seemingly permantently injuried, he has clearly maintained his fitness and skill levels throughout his departure. To be able to come back from having played so little rugby and play to the level and intensity today makes him sheer class. He deserves a big pat on the pat from all English Rugby supporters.
Finally a word on Andy Robinson - He was incredilibly unlucky with a catologue of injuries which denied him quality and experienced players in key positions, which untimately eroded the confidence of the team and led to the downwood spire of losses. At this level margins are small and such injuries make a big diffence to the outcome of games. That said, lets appauld England for getting back to winning ways. Well done Brian Ashton, a great start. RUGBYleve ndicated deouc
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Farrell was a generous mark relative to others considering he didn't do much. Also, I idolise Chris Cusiter but believe that his service was slower than usual today. The Scots needed quick ball which they just couldn't get. Having said that, he was playing behind a pack going backwards at a rate of knots! I had to check at half time to see if Lewsey was on the pitch because he was invisible for the first 40!
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A few Criticsisms
Morgan Distincltly avreage 5
Robinson didn't deserve an 8. He rarley gathered kicks, and looked distinctly less than average in attack, more of a 4.
Farrell threw some extremly poor passes, looked poor in defense, he made one run, which wasn't anything special and ultimatly added nothing to the England team 5
Corry rarely appeared 5
Lewsey seemed to dissapear for most of the first and second half, 4
Vickey threw away penaltys like biscuit rappers, 7
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Lamont, one good run in an othewise average game 6
Cusiter worked his heart out behind a failing scrum 7
And Scott Murry does deserve a rating. Apart from those it seems pretty reliable to me.
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i dont agree with the rating for chris cusiter and dan parks they both tried their best to keep scotland going and we could all see this and if wilkos try had have been disallowed as it shud have then scotland may have fought back to within an inch but unfortuneately thanks to sum sloppy video refereeing scotland had no chance. as for wilkinson himself i dont think he shud have got man of the match harry ellis was a much better player on the day i think its cos it the comeback kids first england international in 3 or 4 years now and they needed to give him a reason not to get injured again that they gave him man of the match, ellis was far better
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The funniest thing of the day was Andy Robbinson's article in the Inedependent saying he wouldn't have played Wilko. But then, that explains for me why he is no longer England Manager. A gamble yes, but if Flood had played we would have lost....
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The funniest thing of the day was Andy Robbinson's article in the Inedependent saying he wouldn't have played Wilko. But then, that explains for me why he is no longer England Manager. A gamble yes, but if Flood had played we would have lost....
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Ratings just about right.
I also think that Chuter had too much of the headless chicken about him today and would rate him lower.
I saw enough from Farrell to believe that he could be the missing cog that the English mid-field has`been looking for. I think that #14 on this board simply needs to polish up his understanding of rugby and the role of inside centre. After 8/9 RU games, I think it was an impressive performance. Farrell's defence for the last Scottish try will have the opposition video analysts working overtime but there is time to put that right.
A steady improvement game on game from this team between now and September may yet see a vigourous defence of the World Cup - but we're two years behind the ABs in preparation. Andy Robinson's pre-match "I would not have picked JW" says it all.
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What's The Point!
Depressed and Humiliated are the feelings right now. Year after year apart from the odd relief we are merely trying to remain competitive with England never mind actually winning the game. And when we do win, it's normally just scraping through.
Defeatism, or Realism?
On listening to John Beattie on Radio Scotland the radio this morning, it becomes clear of the task we face.
Scotland has around 20 to 25 thousand people at all levels playing rugby. England at 10 times our population actually has 100 times the number playing, at two and a half million.
With the human and the financial resources available I feel quite sorry for Frank Hadden and the boys. They do a great job considering the odds.
How do those Irish boys do it?
P.S although my name looks very familiar I'm born in Scotland to Scottish parents.
P.P.S How about Sean Lamont and Rob Dewey at centres, Webster and Walker the wings. looks more likely to cause damage than todays backs.
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INJUSTICE or What comes around goes around ?? Although the jonny try may have been slightly misjudged everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that the first scottish try (the one that meant they had any foothole in the game) should never have stood and the second try was when the game was over the score line could have been a lot heavier
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I've seen a number of comments from Scottish supporters claiming a bias towards England - but were they watching the match?
Scotland were not particularly good, and the scoreline was just. At times, it wasn't pretty, but England got the job done, something they haven't done in a fair old while.
And yes, there is some doubt over Jonny Wilkinson's try, but a) the ref gave it, and b) it would have made naff all difference anyway.
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i think u r being generous 2 pharell deserved a 6 i hink. also u dont giv magnus lund enough credit for an impressive display, particularly from restarts and got about the pitch very well. obviously the try as well
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Generally accurate but I think that you are giving farrell too much credit. I think he i worthy of a 6. Also Magnus Lund was bette than a 7. He was very good particularly from restarts and very mobile and seemed to be everywhere on the pitch. very good for his age!
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It was a great team effort today, and a good win to lay some foundations from. Apart from the usual suspects who had outstanding games, I felt Joe Worsley and Magnus Lund were outstanding in the second half...always slowing Scottish ruck ball down and generally allowing the bigger English forwards to dominate proceedings.
Lund and Worsley - take a bow...
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All credit to England - especially Wilko & Harry Ellis - to measure up on a day of high pressure. Man for man every Englishman outplayed his opposite number. Tough to say for a Scot.... However, let's keep it in perspective ... #7 in the world beats #9 in the world at home !!!
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My goodness, Phil ... you could coach Arsene Wenger in whingeing !
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I think that the engerland ratings were very generous considerin morgan was horrendous under the high ball, all wilkinson done was kick and con the officials(he also played on while bleeding, which is cheating), chuter conceded numerous penalties which should have resulted in a yellow card, vickery constantley pulled gavin kerr down at the scrum and was andy farrell actually playin today? Only harry ellis merited his rating, he was excellent! You can tell that an englishman gave the ratings cos the scotland ratings are very harsh although we really missed jason white! Patterson to stand off, walker on the wing for next week!!!!!!!!!!!!
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for all those slagging off farrells performance - just look atnthe first england try - the way he and tindall held straight running lines allowed it to be scored - these are the fundamentals that have been lacking for so long in english rugby that are learnt at school boy level. i think that farrell allowed wilkinson to perform how he did today - he removed the pressure at first receiver countless times and looked composed there. as for wilkinson there is nothing to say on the matter has he has answered all the questions himself with an iconic performance.
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english media = arrogant and unrealistic , hope you all return to loosing soon !
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I think the engerland ratings are very generous considerin morgan was horrendous under the high ball, vickery constantly pulled down gavin kerr at the scrum, chuter conceded numerous penalties which should have been punished with a yellow card, all wilkinson did was kick and con the officials(he also played on while bleeding which is cheating!) and was andy farrell actually playin today? only harry ellis merited his rating! the scotland ratings are very harsh considerin we were playin against 15 players + 4 officials! paterson at stand off, walker on the wing for next week!
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for all those slagging off farrells performance - just look atnthe first england try - the way he and tindall held straight running lines allowed it to be scored - these are the fundamentals that have been lacking for so long in english rugby that are learnt at school boy level. i think that farrell allowed wilkinson to perform how he did today - he removed the pressure at first receiver countless times and looked composed there. as for wilkinson there is nothing to say on the matter has he has answered all the questions himself with an iconic performance.
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England did play very well today and fully deserved their win, and Wilkinson performed well but nothing spectaular!
its unfortunate to see the mistake made by TV ref, there should be an explanation to why THAT decision was made!
My biggest dissappointment of the day was Brian Moore's poor display as an analyser. The 91Èȱ¬ (British not English) are supposed to be neutral when broadcasting to the whole of the UK, and the commentators should remain neutral. Unfortunately, as always, Mr Moore was anything but neutral and his bias clouded many of his observations and spoiled the game for me! The 91Èȱ¬ must do better to provide a quality service to all of its viewers, not just England fans, as other UK viewers must also pay an over-priced licience fee to listen to that!
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What is the difference between many English fans and many Scottish fans? We can see from some of the posts!! The England fans were not bitter when the Scots won last year and did not begrudge you your win...however some of the comments on here show how bitter some Scots fans are...the bottom line is that today England outplayed the Scots in every department so please just get over it and say well done England for a change!!
As for England, a definite step in the right direction but plenty of work to be done to get us back to a level where we can compete with the better nations.
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the ratings robinson is receiving prove once and for all that no one in the english media knows anything about rugby. the only thing he did in the entire game was run in two tries that were laid out on a plate for him.
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Cheating? Because you're playing with a little blood on your lip? How sour can grapes get? Get real, this is rugby, not football!
Hopefully this robust and spirited England performance will shame the 'other' Robinson to creep back into obscurity and refrain from making any silly pronouncements on future team selection.
And also, please God, may we never see Charlie Hodgson in an English shirt again; he is easily the most boring No 10 I've ever seen in an international shirt of any kind.
How I love seeing Wilkinson back! He and Ellis may yet turn into one of the great scrumhalf/flyhalf combinations of our generation if today's performance is anything to go by.
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The difference between this game and the last calcutta cup? 9, 10 and 12 playing well and looking like a team. Jonny was always going to get man of the match looking at the level he has been playing at in the few games he has played in but i think it's worth mentioning Farrell in the often under-rated number 12 shirt. He has come into a new game and looked right at home. Distributed well and given time, I think Ellis, Wilko and Faz will make a bloody good midfield. I'm not one to go off on one straight away, but given the forward power and the flair at the back, I can see England doing very well this spring. Just a pity Cueto isn't fit so he can fit in at 14 possibly giving Josh a better run in the 15 shirt. But then again, a win is a win.
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Ellis was fantastic today. I agree - he rivalled Wilko for man of the match. Shame it wasn't given to him.
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A remarkable comeback for Wilkinson - incredible, even. I, for one, have to put my hands up and say I was wrong> I thought he would be hopelessly short of pace and sharpness.
He possibly was a bit but his overall performance was outstanding.
That said, I think Harry Ellis did an enormous amount to make it possible. He took a lot of heat around the scrum and gave Wilkinson space. Understand Brian Moore's sentiment but my personal opinion is that it was Ellis who was the Man of the Match. But I guess arguing would be churlish.
Having said all of that, I have the feeling that this match says more about how poor Scotland are than how good England are. Scotland contested two English lineouts: they got a try from one and caused panic in the defence from the other.
those who maintain that the English scrum were dominant must have been looking at something different. 1.5kg a man heavier, the opposition were allowing them unchallenged ball at set pieces, they were clearly totally devoid of self-confidence and still the English couldn't stamp their authority. The biggest gain they made from a rolling maul was about ten yards, they never once pushed Scotland off the ball and the Scots, in general - a not very good pack - broadly held its own.
Scotland are in big trouble: England may be hearing the birds singing but they'd best wait a bit to be sure it's the real dawn chorus.
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Andy Farrell was a powerhouse in midfield, distributed the play well and considering it was his first RU international cap was outstanding!
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A few of the England performances were fantastic, everybody knows who they were. I thought Farrell looked very good despite the slight lack of pace;his head made up for it though, not bad at all. England, are not the finished article by a long shot. The back line though powerful looked a tad slow. Under the circumstances, i found myself wishing for Balshaws pace. Wilkinson and Ellis made the rest of the backs look positively tortoise like.
Cusiter was excellent all things considered, and totally underated here.The 91Èȱ¬ commentary team almost made me feel sick with their praise of Wilkinson. Get a grip please. From the look on his face at the end of the match he knew his precious ass was in for some hard core butt kissing. A fine outstanding performance absolutely, one to stick up all the ney sayers (who were these people anyway?)but my word if i were a Scot, that combined with a terrible try decision would have really cheesed me off. Scotland were outplayed but still stuck twenty past England. To sum up,less butt kissing and come on England, new beginning, good start lets improve on it!!
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Lets not get too carried away, the performance came against a below par scotland team, pretty much armed with a second choice back row (quite significant when your main outstanding element of play is defense). When you look through the line-up today, only Lamont, Paterson and Cusiter are proven international class, able to show great quality at that level. The hope that France may return from twickenham without a win is tenous, especially when you consider their strength in depth, particularly going forward. However even a MacDonald must applaud the return of a fit Wilko.An incredible first international after years out. The poor man deserves a sports personality award. If he and England can continue to raise their game, they might just give France a worry. And who knows, Dan Carter under pressure anyone?.
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As a Scot, I broadly agree with the ratings. I disagree with the scrum-half ratings, but there goes.
Congratulations to England, and particularly Wilkinson. I'd have probably given him a 10, but that "try" (although no fault on Wilkinson's part) was a farce.
On second thoughts, let us be generous in defeat. Wilkinson 10, video official 0.
Ehm, we're just preparing for the World Cup? Who knows, but when I see the difference to England that Wilkinson made, I can't help but rue the absence of Jason White.
Twickenham was always going to be difficult, let's hope Frank Hadden has learnt a lot from it.
Anyway, as said, (and despite some posts here) as a Scot I've no problem in acknowledging that England deserved to win, and in a fit Wilkinson have a truly exceptional player.
That said, and with absolutely no malice involved, I will be interested to see how he will cope with a succession of games, and how England might cope without him.
For Scotland it's a case of regroup and rethink. I think the talent is good, but want to see us a little less thinking about how and who to play to beat the opposition, and more interest in playing our best game.
We will never win a World Cup, but at least (like last year), put players out who can give us some wonderful moments of rugby football.
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As a die hard Scotland fan, it pains me to say it - but in the interests of fairness (what Rugby has that football doesn't) I will. We were second best in pretty much 90% of the game today. We had a good 10-15 minute spell during which we scored our first try, but that just seemed to annoy the English.
The commentators on the 91Èȱ¬ TV feed did a pretty good job (I especially liked the disagreement over the penalty that never was on Jonny Wilkinson!) and to bne fair, the Scots were so out of their depth that the commentary had to reflect that.
As a team, the Scots have spirit, and the beginnings of a nice tight unit; we're a long way from where we want to be - but on the other hand, we're a long way from where we actually *WERE* a few years ago.
The scoreline was maybe a tad heavy on the English side, but Wilkinson would have ripped any team apart on the form he showed today.
We need an inspirational figure in our team. Chris Patterson is not it. He's no Jim Jeffries, Gavin Hastings, David Sole or Roy Laidlaw, but he's the best we've got.
Well played, my English counterparts - you deserved your win... but we are getting to grips with our own limitations and strengths, and we WILL come good.
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As a die hard Scotland fan, it pains me to say it - but in the interests of fairness (what Rugby has that football doesn't) I will. We were second best in pretty much 90% of the game today. We had a good 10-15 minute spell during which we scored our first try, but that just seemed to annoy the English.
The commentators on the 91Èȱ¬ TV feed did a pretty good job (I especially liked the disagreement over the penalty that never was on Jonny Wilkinson!) and to bne fair, the Scots were so out of their depth that the commentary had to reflect that.
As a team, the Scots have spirit, and the beginnings of a nice tight unit; we're a long way from where we want to be - but on the other hand, we're a long way from where we actually *WERE* a few years ago.
The scoreline was maybe a tad heavy on the English side, but Wilkinson would have ripped any team apart on the form he showed today.
We need an inspirational figure in our team. Chris Patterson is not it. He's no Jim Jeffries, Gavin Hastings, David Sole or Roy Laidlaw, but he's the best we've got.
Well played, my English counterparts - you deserved your win... but we are getting to grips with our own limitations and strengths, and we WILL come good.
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What I witnessed was a very below par Scottish team who had no real attacking options overpowered quite easily in the end by an above average England. The final score was a bit unfair on Scotland whos made a lot of errors towards the last 20minutes.
Wilko was an obvious star and Elly wasn't too far behind him running with the ball at every opportunity, they both played well together.
Being an Irishman, I wouldn't say I was overly pleased to see Jonny play so well again but it was good to see him back!! Although, it just shows how much England rely on him. In the history of sport, I can think of no other team who relies on one player to win them a game.
That's the good points that came out of the game. Now the bad......the rest of the England pack were just average. Farrell was a disappointment whose only contribution was to knit together a couple of good passes. Robinson was just erm, there in the right place - very overrated player. The England forwards were average, and there's nothing else more I can really say about them.
Let's so how they do against a team with attacking options like France and then we can truly say whether England will be contenders for the World Cup.
My last word goes to England's (Wilko's biggest fan) the TV referee. As Davies says the TV referee should be disciplined for making really bad decisions again. I'm just glad that the "try" wasn't the try that won it for England!!
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As a fervent Scotland supporter, I'm pretty gutted about today's game. As always, the most painful element is the fact we didn't make England earn their points (they did deserve victory).
We missed tackles, passes were incomplete, our lineout was...awful, frankly. We missed touch with clearances, and the scrum didn't compete...where was the team than played last year? Jason White proved a massive loss - for all the defending we did, where were the big hits? We played without conviction.
I don't think the other teams will be scared of England from that performance - it wasn't a great advert for skilled rugby (Ellis runs excepted). We gifted them 2 tries, and the ref another. Fact.
For Scotland, if we can get the basics up to scratch, we've potential to be good, but we never gave ourselves a chance to score.
So - a mark off all 30 players scores I think (A 9 for Lord Jonny are you insane? He missed two kicks, and didn't score that try...hmmm.)
But well played England - you can only beat who's in front of you.
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I though most of Parks kicking was with pin point accuracy. The kicks he dropped in behind Robinson and the fullback were excellent and I have no doubt it was part of Hadden's plan. Scotland should have pressured the English lineout more, it didn't look very solid. England rolled the ball well. Pray that Wilko doesn't get injured in this 6 naitons or you may as well not turn up to the World Cup. Too much rides on his shoulders, and as lucky as you are to have him, it shows the shallow talent pool in English #10's , and lack of organisation without him.
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I though most of Parks kicking was with pin point accuracy. The kicks he dropped in behind Robinson and the fullback were excellent and I have no doubt it was part of Hadden's plan. Scotland should have pressured the English lineout more, it didn't look very solid. England rolled the ball well. Pray that Wilko doesn't get injured in this 6 naitons or you may as well not turn up to the World Cup. Too much rides on his shoulders, and as lucky as you are to have him, it shows the shallow talent pool in English #10's , and lack of organisation without him.
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On the whole your ratings are pretty accurate....BUT....when is someone going to get rid of those two muppets Butler and Moore???
No game is ever as bad as these two.
They squabble like 5 year olds in a sweet shop and do nothing for any rugby match. Would someone in authority like to tell them that they are there for the benifit of the listners, not themselves and commentary does not consist of solely stating facts and shouting each other down.
If they are so good let Butler go and commentate in Wales where his obvious bias will be appreciated and Moore back to being a solicitor...if he still is.
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Harry Ellis was for me The Man Of The Match. He was everywhere.
Jonny had a brilliant return, as did Robbo. And what a game Lund had. The forgotten man.
Tindall was his usual self, powering into everything.
Once the Scots scored their first try, England suddenly woke up. Boy did they wake up!
As for Jonny's cut lip, isn't that the only part of his body that hasn't been injured in the last few years?
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Thought Farrell only deserved a 4 out of 10 as his defence looked weak at times and he did little in attack apart from ship the ball (which he did well). Nothing special from him yet and if he had played in the Autumn he would have been dropped again.
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I am Scottish; think Bryan Moore is a brilliant commemtator and not at all biased (listen to his reaction when Wilkinson`s try was given); DO congatulate England on a totally deserved victory;feel that Wilkinson,Ellis and Worsley all played very well and the game was a reassonable entertainment and decent start to the 6 Nations for both teams. Very difficult to see how Robinson warranted 8 whilst Cussiter was deemed a 6 but that is a small matter and most Scottish rugby fans do not suffer from sour grapes syndrome so do not tar us all with the same brush.
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Shouldn't there be questions about Chris Cusiter's defence because Harry Ellis outwitted and out paced him on several occasions?
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England deserved to win, however scotland were also poor. Ellis was given far too much room, something that he won't get against the other teams. The english scrum did do well, however it also gave a lot of penalties in the loose and gave away a try at the lineout. Jonny had a good game, but he never got the england backline moving during the first half. Farrell did nothing of note, for a creative player he either shipped the ball on or just ran at the opposition. The wings didn't have much to work with, not that Robinson did much anyway. He didn't use tha famed sidestep much, if at all.
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Amazing that when considering marks/ratings, people comment that JW played 'well' but not outstanding. Three and a half years? How many injuries? The last a lacerated kidney, just to return after that would be miraculous enough. Think if you made a film or wrote a book about this it would be discarded at fantasy. This was a comeback to rival any other in sports history.This was JWs day.
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I think every true rugby fan is pleased that Wilkinson returned like he has never been away - the game is better with him back. As a Scot, I am pleased Cusiter was spiky and sharp (a 6...please!) and that Callam could form a decent back row with Hogg and Taylor. Our game plan was clearly to kick England back to their line and try and pressure penalties out of them. Too limited and not bold enough, and I do not understand the tactic of not competing the opposition's lineout. Kellock and Hamilton are tall lads and we scored directly from a disrupted English throw.
For Scotland (yes Moore, Butler, Inverdale, Guscott there was another home nation in Johhny's show yesterday) FH must be more brave for the Wales game. That means the form wingers (Walker and Webster) come in to the 22, Paterson to 15 and Rob Dewey absolutely must start at 13 outside Henderson. Those are our the players who score tries in the Heineken Cup against good European sides. Lamont is not playing badly but is not at his best in a struggling Northampton side.
Finally, well done England - a deserved victory (you should have got rid of A Robinson some time earlier me thinks..)
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What did Wilkinson do? C'mon, did he really do anything at all? Ill admit he kicked well, he always has, but his performance with the ball in hand certainly didn't deserve a 9! 5 if anything. The English are only so deperate to make a simply awful display from scotland make England look like they played well. They looked no better than they did in the autumn (a comedy of errors), and how you can somehow make yourself believe that Wilkinson was anything above very, very average is completely ridiculous. England simply showed once again that they can bully around the park probably the weakest pack world rugby, and that they have absolutely nothing behind the scrum. The sad thing for England of course is that they only scored 3 tries against one of the worst defences ive seen in the 21st century! Wilkinson displayed no more than what was a very quiet, very average, and very boring performnce. Nothing that Stephen Jones or O'gara would be at all proud of. I suppose it was forseeable that the english were going to think the sun shines out of his backside no matter what happened. E.G: after he was subbed, and the scottish backs finally caught the ball and scored, the radio station that one of the people around me was listening to said it was because they had brought Wilkinson off the pitch that they had scored. Scotland created their own downfall, England, and certainly wilkinson didn't.
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Eddie Butler has to be the most anti-welsh Welshman ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and Brian Moore just typifies the "oh, Jonny! someone's pushed over Jonny!" attitude of The English.
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An enjoyable game with one team trying to play rugby and the other trying to spoil- not a critisism as Scotland are excellent without the ball (look at last year's game at Murrayfield)
Very promising start for England and with time together, tightening up on discipline (too many soft penalties) and the return of players such as Thompson, Stevens, Borthwick, Ward- Smith and Sheridan, things are looking good for a competitive World Cup showing.
Interesting to see critisism of ex RL players. Please leave them alone. Both are brilliant.
Wilkinson should be Prime Minister and I totally agree with comments on Moore and Butler. They should refrain from their petty Anglo/Welsh nonsense and comment on the rugby.
Sorry, forgot to mention Tindall. Why was he ever left out? Would you like to pick up and run at an inside three of Wilkinson, Farrell and Tindall? Thought not.
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Whilst I agree that it was Jonny that won the game for England, i thought the forward play was sublime, unlucky not to get first try awarded as well. Blogg 55 wilko : Ireland only won at Twickenham last time because of suspect ref calls, ie o'gara's foot couldnt be more clearly out of play, but hey you win some decisions you lose some, thats sport.
I think we will struggle against the Irish and French, I actually think that Ireland deserve to win it. They have been unlucky over last few years.
All i care about is beating the most overated team in rugby (Welsh)
come on England !!
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I agree for the most part with your ratings except for that given to Cusiter, he was in my opinion outstanding and outshone the rest of the Scottish team with his tireless running and constant commitment around the field.
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If you think Eddie Butler doesn't show bias, you are deaf! Whilst Auntie Beeb insist on Eddie and his Celtic bias, I'm happy for Brian to wear his colours on his chest as much as he likes! This is sport not the Antiques Roadshow! I like Moore having a go at Butler because he deserves it.
Brian Moore's analysis was spot on yesterday - when England gave away a free kick at an attacking Scottish line out, he called it fair and square. He was as critical of England as he was of Scotland. This includes the nonsense in the front row - Moore gives unique insight into the Dark Arts.
Now the really interesting pairing would be Brian Moore and Stuart Barnes...
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I mostly agree with the ratings although Cusiter played well I thought, Scotland weren't that bad but England where better! Paterson needs to play club at 10 first!!
yes robinson 'only' ran in two tries but err...he's a winger thats his primary job!! Corry popped up everywhere and was excellent! Farrel wasn't amazing but was better than his opposite number - and that was what was needed on his debut!
Fully agree than Moore is an awful commentator, great player but his analysis his woeful as his general comments on play! Please, please replace him!!
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Ratings spot on although Lund was possibly one mark higher. Ellis has finally made a convincing claim for the No 9 shirt and I believe it was Farrells performance alongside Ellis which allowed Wilkinson (God) to perform as well as he did.
Forwards can only crush those in front of them and Vickery lead them as a true captain.
Great to see some of the Scots being realistic and honest in their comments. Long may it continue.
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I have to say I think that most of the marks given for England (bar one or two) are a touch generous! I just don't feel that the team performance as a whole was worth the 7s and 8s that were awarded. there is still sooo much scope for improvement, notably the speed at which England played throughout most of the forst half. the ball was too slow from the breakdown which allowed the scottish defence to work more effectively. look forward to see how England improve over this tournament.
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Fully agree with all scores except i thought Corry maybe could have got one more!
Wilkinson had a great game. Yes he was in touch for his try but the Scots pulled England down in the line out from which they scored! Sorry lads that makes it honours even in my book!
Before the game settled down i felt the Scots moved the English pack around and they didn't look the quickest, but in the end i think the English wore the scots down, especially in the scrum and tight stuations!
Some more replacements at the end may have stopped the Scots getting their concilation score, as the English pack did look tired at the end!
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England were not as good as many here would like to believe and Scotland were worse. Harry Ellis played superbly for the first time ever in an England shirt but there was a worrying lack of pace in the backs overall. The pack went well but I have my doubts about Chuter. Farrell had a reasonable start in international rugby and could develop further. Cussiter played well behind a beaten pack but Scotland's total lack of ambition was the reason for their downfall. Why kick away possession and then not compete at the line out?
Wilkinson was excellent in the circumstances and can only get better and sharper, something to look forward to.
Two tries should not have stood - Scotlands first came from illegal work in the line out and obviously Wilkinson's foot hit in touch before the ball was down.
Nice to win but let's not carried away. Certainly several steps in the right direction, though. I can't offer the Scots much comfort unless they have five secret undiscovered backs and at least two new props.
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England were not as good as many here would like to believe and Scotland were worse. Harry Ellis played superbly for the first time ever in an England shirt but there was a worrying lack of pace in the backs overall. The pack went well but I have my doubts about Chuter. Farrell had a reasonable start in international rugby and could develop further. Cussiter played well behind a beaten pack but Scotland's total lack of ambition was the reason for their downfall. Why kick away possession and then not compete at the line out?
Wilkinson was excellent in the circumstances and can only get better and sharper, something to look forward to.
Two tries should not have stood - Scotlands first came from illegal work in the line out and obviously Wilkinson's foot hit in touch before the ball was down.
Nice to win but let's not carried away. Certainly several steps in the right direction, though. I can't offer the Scots much comfort unless they have five secret undiscovered backs and at least two new props.
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George
I absoloutely agree with you (well, mostly). As a Scot, I can say with all honesty that England won a game that Ireland and France and maybe the Welsh would have won by more. It's very hard to benchmark a team against such inferior opposition. England must avoid complacency at all costs. Oh, and perhaps Jonny should get that lip seen to... knowing his luck it will probably get badly infected :-). Ellis for man of the match!
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Only one team turned up for this game. Thats if you were listening to the totally biased commentary on the game and the very biased John Inverdale before during and after. However with all the power and possession enjoyed by the English it should have been 70 points. However on closer inspection Wilkinson's try was definatly in touch and Robinson was offside for his second and his first was a forward pass. Commentators missed all that though. Dewey must start for Scotland against Wales. Good bye Parks, Henderson and Di Rollover.
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England were not as good as many here would like to believe and Scotland were worse. Harry Ellis played superbly for the first time ever in an England shirt but there was a worrying lack of pace in the backs overall. The pack went well but I have my doubts about Chuter. Farrell had a reasonable start in international rugby and could develop further. Cussiter played well behind a beaten pack but Scotland's total lack of ambition was the reason for their downfall. Why kick away possession and then not compete at the line out?
Wilkinson was excellent in the circumstances and can only get better and sharper, something to look forward to.
Two tries should not have stood - Scotlands first came from illegal work in the line out and obviously Wilkinson's foot hit in touch before the ball was down.
Nice to win but let's not carried away. Certainly several steps in the right direction, though. I can't offer the Scots much comfort unless they have five secret undiscovered backs and at least two new props.
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As an Irish observer - the English were not tested. Jonny Wilkinson's kicking remains excellent, but his distribution remains weak and a little laboured. Where strong opposition squeezes the seconds out of each movement, and a better organised agressive defence attacks the midfield, England will be tested and could suffer.
It's hard to look bad winning, and a lot of the performances put in by England today could well have been sixes in a losing team. There was enough looseness in defence, indiscipline and poor control at the breakdown to give up significant opportunity to an Ireland or a France.
As for Andy's column in the Independent - don't be too harsh yet. If you read the article, he said that Jonny would probably have a magnificent game yesterday - his concern wasn't that he'd perform against the Scots, but that he's be too beat up to perform against the Irish when it really mattered. So give it a couple of weeks before you put the final nail in Robbo's coffin!
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From a Welsh viewpoint, it's lucky we are playing England last, as Wilko is too brave for his frame....he got through this one, but i bet the French or Irish will end his season.
Yes he had a really good game, but it is still a limited one, as is England's. They may crush the lesser nations, but this will raise the usual over-hyped expectations. I feel Ellis has a yr or two to go before he gains vision, the 2 RL guys look slow and will get exposed by better backs, and the England forwards, while obviously good, also leak too many penalties, which teams with better kickers will exploit. 7/10 the lot I say, with Wilko 8. and still England are boring.
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Has Nobody worked it out yet? Rugby is finished as a spectacle. I mean, you got Wilko, Farrell, Tindall, Robinson, Lewsey et all - yet all tries (except 1) were scored without players breaking the gain line. i.e. the game has irrevocably changed. Its more like US Football. DEFENCE. POWER it up for a 2 yard gain. BORING. Scrap flankers - then charge 50 quid a seat. It would bring back the attacking excitment.....
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I thought Tindall deserves more credit than a 7, how can you compare his effort with Rob Dewey!!?
Robinson lucky to get an 8. OK he scored a couple but he could hardly miss given the circumstances!
Parks can't be faulted for his dropped kick-off, it's simply not his job to take them! He deserved a 6. Euan Murray I thought did well against Freshwater, Kerr was the problem!
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Being a Scot who lived in England for most of my adult life I have always enjoyed watching England play (but I must admit not against Scotland) and was pleased to Wilkinson back, and on form.
I have watched these matches for as long as I can remember, 55 years or so, and still can't understand why or how Scottish trainers cannot see that Scotland have to have a team with stamina for 80 minutes, not just 40. The Scots seem to able to hold back England and other teams for the first half, then fall apart in the second.
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A few comments in reaction to the posts:
1. Fair play to Ashton for playing Robinson. Andy Robinson went on this website to say he wouldnt play him and thats why he's not coach anymore.
2. Lets not get over excited re the world cup. Its 8 months away and injuries will change anyones chases.
3. The comment about a better kicker will exploit English weakness - The Scottish kicker was the best in the World last year.
4. The Scottish will unfortunately keep complaining about Johnnie's try which will overshadow the gap that has reappeared with the introduction of a full English side.
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39. At 12:01 AM on 04 Feb 2007, david mclean wrote:
english media = arrogant and unrealistic , hope you all return to loosing soon !
Bit harsh David, don't you think? Whatever you think of the English media, that shouldn't spill over to the team should it?
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Its good to see we are now getting some luck with the touch judges and the video ref, noons try that wasnt given against the alll blacks and last year agaisnt ireland a few very dodgy touch line decisions which cost us the game
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I would just like to say that for the first time in over a year. I managed to watch a full game of rugby involving England,without turnning it of.Yes Scotland came to the park with a limited game plan and played poorly, Yes england still made to many unforced errors and had poor discipline at times. in particular the fowards
However for the first time in ages there was an eagerness in the step , a belief in the play, a desire to perform . That had sadly been missing of late .Long may it continue.
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I still cannot understand why Scotland did not contest the line-outs. In previous seasons they have done this with some success, this first game the tactics seemed to be to leave this important phase to the opposition. They scored a try from the only time there was any effort in the line-out, and that was through an England mistake (caused by pressure?).
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this is completely biased??????????how can the non existentfarrel gain 7 and parks only 5 for great kicking.Also lewsey was unnoticeable and chuter and corry were just thugs!!!!!!!Also if the ref and TMO done there job Wilko would have been off for the blood and his match killing try would not have happened and it would have been a different game!!!!!I'm surprised Ellis's try was not given as it clearly wasn't a try!!!!!!!!!!
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Obviously players look better on a winning team, but I dont think that Andy Farrell was a 7, nor do I think Tindall was, but that's fine.
However, to say that the Scottish backs had too little ball to do anything with, while true I suppose forgets that what they did get they used very poorly, and kicked away. You just can ask your pack to go get ball if you arent going to do anything with it.
Deacon was never a 7, nor was Grewcock an 8. They played well, but didnt exactly have a blinder.
On the Scottish side, I though Euan Murray aquitted himself well, as did Kellock and Taylor, but Hamilton was invisible, DiRollo was miserable, Lamont made a hash of that kick, and shouldnt have started anyway. Paterson was wasted on the other wing. Henderson played alright, and we knew what Parks was going to bring to the game. Kerr is miserable, but Southwell is becoming a very sound fullback.
Corry looked a man transformed, as did Ellis, and I just dont know how anyone can make a comeback like Wilkinson did, so all due credit to England, they won and won well. Congratulations to them
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Morning all, quite a day at Twickenham on Saturday – who writes that Wilkinson bloke’s scripts I wonder?
Calum (post 3) – I agree Cusiter did well behind a beaten pack, especially as has only just returned from injury.
But to say he was the best player on the pitch behind Ellis and Wilkinson?
The reason he was on the back foot was because of a fine performance by the England pack, with the likes of Vickery, Grewcock and Worsley outstanding.
In the circumstances he did well, but was he really the game’s third most influential figure?
Tom (post 24) – Four for Robinson - do you not rate wingers who score tries then?
And four for Lewsey as well - I think you underestimate some of his work in defence and at restarts.
Pat (44) – Robinson’s first try was laid on a plate for him!?
And finally back to my apparent blind-spot, Cusiter, and a dose of Jonny Wilkinson-inspired humility.
Japan man (50), Keith (52), Jim Barr (61), The Continental Op (65), GMS (70), Tim D (72), (and even you Calum, to an extent) – you may well all be right, Cusiter might be worth more than a six given the circumstances he found himself in.
Less than three hours now until favourites Ireland take on Wales in Cardiff – enjoy!
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I despair at the lack of understanding shown by some of the people who post opinions on these boards.
How can some people watch a game for years and years and still know nothing about it?
Wilkinsons performance was a testimony to his ability, to play such a role after a 3 year absence is an outstanding effort. That said he owed much to the two players either side of him. Ellis and Farrel gave JW perfect support and at times they drew the eyes of the defence away allowing greater time on the ball for Jonny.
Farrels ability to take the 1st receiver position and make such effective use of the ball and Ellis's speed and eye for the gap had the Scotts defence guessing.
Farrel was the only player on the field with the abilty to ship the ball out wide with some deft short passing and the vision to play the long cut out pass when it was on, the wingers will learn to take advantage of this and in future games we'll all see the benefit.
The forwards were very dominant against an overmatched Scotts pack but they can only beat whats put in front of them and that they did!
Sterner tests will come but overall I was pretty happy with the huge improvement we showed since the last game.
Carry on Brian Ashton.
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Most ratings are fair enough with the exceptions of Farrell and Cusiter, you cannot tell me Farrell had the better game. However a very good performance from England helped by a very poor Scottish display. Yes Robinsons second try was lucky and Wilkonsons should have been dissallowed but we are kidding ourselves if we say that 28-20 would have been deserved. We must improve vastly if we are to beat Wales next week - I live in hope!
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Well done England - they played sensible rugby and proved that they are a better side than Scotland. To win by 20 points and not really hit top gear shows that they are on the right road back to where they want to be. I am a Scotland fan and was disappointed in our performance but I don't think it was helped by our team selection (but we don't have too many choices). Dewey should have started and a player like Webster or Walker would have offered more. So we didn't make it difficult for England but you can only play what is up against you and England did that very well - Ellis was excellent - he exploited Scotlands weaknesses.
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Most ratings are fair enough with the exceptions of Farrell and Cusiter, you cannot tell me Farrell had the better game. However a very good performance from England helped by a very poor Scottish display. Yes Robinsons second try was lucky and Wilkonsons should have been dissallowed but we are kidding ourselves if we say that 28-20 would have been deserved. We must improve vastly if we are to beat Wales next week - I live in hope!
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England were good, and its great to see the likes of wilko n robinson back in an england shirt.
wilko played well, he was awesome considering the amount of match time, but hes a professional and his preparation is always second to none, and always leaves everything he has on the pitch. but for me man of the match was ellis, he played out of his skin. he proved andy robinson was wrong to overlook him in the autumn.
as far as centre partnerships go, mayb not outstanding but they didnt give much away in defence or attack. given time it could prove to be an excellent selection by ashton. the more they play together the better they will become.
but lets not get carried away, its only 1 game, england were good but no disrespect to scotland there are going to be much tougher matches in the six nations.
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C'mon guys. Aren't the press getting a little carried away with JWs performance. Yes he played well, but to be honest it was against a pretty ordinary Scottish side (and that comes from a Scotsman!). We're not world class and only occasionally punch above our weight. Saturday was not one of those occasions. The real tester for JC will come when he's up against a quality side like Ireland or France.
The big bonus for England is in confidence. The press are on their side again and that can mean the difference between winning and losing. However all it takes is one stinger for little Jonny or a poor performance against Italy (who looked even worse than us) and it could all come crumbling down.
And for all my countrymen that are complaining about JW's try - leave it guys. It stinks of sour grapes. Yes it wasn't a try and the video ref should be shot then posted yo Siberia (in that order), but it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game, no matter how optimistic you're being about a great Scottish come back. Let's just hoe we get the rub of the green our way soon. We've been the victims of some pretty poor luck in a few big games over the last few years - maybe we're due something.
In the meantime - here's to you Jonny. It's good to see someone of your talent back at the top level (even if you are a big English girls blouse!)
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Well, I don't know about anyone else, but as a Scot, I'm pretty full up after eating all the humble pie last night, washed down with loads of beer...
So here's the autopsy:
Front row needs a beasting at training next week, Dougie Hall in particular needs a morning at tackling practice.
Scott Murray and Nathan Hines NEED to play in Scotlands engine room, full stop - no-one else is good enough for us right now.
Taylor is the stop-gap answer at 6 for us at the moment. He played superbly under the circumstances. When White comes back, get him back to 8, get Hoggy at 7 and we'll be sorted there. Brown was nowhere and Callam was poor.
Cusiter was terrific. Good to see him back.
Parks was under loads of pressure because of the woeful pack performance. He kicked away posession simply because I don't think he trusted those outside him to do anything. In my view he wasn't much at fault. Think Paterson should be at 10 for Wales though to facilitate a change on the wings.
Di Rollo and Henderson should be dropped. They were abysmal. Replace them with Dewey and Kydd. Creativity and skill in, slowness and erratic behaviour out.
Lamont is cracking when he gets into the game but just wasn't allowed to get involved this time. Made one mistake, but I bet that's the last time he makes it. His brother should be on the opposite wing next weekend.
Southwell I rate highly and I like the way he attacks the line. Goo dunder high ball but tactically in defence needs to be far more aware. Will be in next week and will play far better.
So to summarise, I expect there to be at least 2-3 changes in the pack, and 1-2 changes in the backline. I just hope our selectors agree!!!
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Ellis MoM and at least 9 so agree with that. Best English scrum half performance for a long time.
Corry 8 he was everywhere. Chuter yes 7 he brought life to the party, better than Thompson.
Thought Farrell did lots of good things in the midfield so agree on 7.Tindall too looked sharp on the outside.
Worsley only 5 seems hot and cold. Wilkinson played a good 10 role and deserves 8 or a 9 but should not be deified. Wont people ever learn. All the national papers had him on their covers yesterday and I shan't bother to buy one today.
Disappointed with the Scots back row who just werent as apparent as Scots back rows usually are and need to be. Dan Parks 5 or 4 never seems to add anything to the Scottish team. Felt sorry for Sean Lamont when he lost the ball to Jason Robinson.
Robinson two tries after no international football and not much form at Sale, surely worth 9 for guts and determination as well as class.
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is this the english broadcasting corporation? giv our players a break unlike the ref and TMO
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Certainly don't agree with 9 for Ellis. You'd need to see him against a team that really tests him, and Scotland did not do that yesterday. Also, you mention that his service 'looked laboured' - well, with service being the raison d'etre for a scrum half, you can't give him 9 if his service is not great.
Agreed, he's probably England's best option right now, but...the jury's out as to whether he's really top class. I'd give him a 7 or 7.5 for yesterday.
Now, Cusiter behind that pack would have been something to see!!!
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Let's get real here!! England have won and despite not playing attractive rugby we have dominated in all areas and created chances to score tries.
We won the World Cup simply through a dominant pack who created chances for Johhny to kick.
If that is what it takes to win then lets have it. Boring or not!!
NZ are copying our formula by developing the pack into a dominant force to unleash the backs.
Basic rugby!! if you dont have possession you are always on the back foot and will never win.
Bring on the Irish who are supposed to have a strong pack. I think we will hold our own and unleash our backs to show what they are capable of doing with ball and space.
The Italian game will be good to see how far we have progressed. J.G from 91Èȱ¬ said this is not ideal preparation to meet the Irish. I think it is perfect preparation to build confidence.
Marks on players for the English should be reflected on their contibution and yes Lewsey, was absent, Robinson was patrolling the lines poorly but he took the chances when the opportunity was there. Did we do it last year?
Farrell made a couple of runs and at one early on took three scottish players several yards. Making ground by going forward is also part of rugby and he did that.
The line out was solid, so Chuter did hit the target and we have a number of targets. Worsley, Corry, Deacon, Grewcock and Lund were all targets.
He deserved his mark.
We won several uncontested but surely the reason was that the Scots knew the target would be hit. We had an awlful time in the lineouts under A.R.
So lets get positive and back the English!!
I have by backing them for the G.S, T.C and The Championship.
Teams peak too soon. We did before the world cup when we were a points scoring machine, NZ also have done so and I think the Irish are also peaking too soon.
Its the French we need to look out for. No one has given them much chance after the NZ mauling but they will come good as always.
Its between the English and French(unpredictable)for this 6N
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Andy farrell's biggest problem yesterday must have been combatting the boredom!
The 91Èȱ¬ stats show that the ball was in play for about 25 minutes each half, and for most of that time it would have been in a ruck\maul\scrum etc... rather than in hands!
Farrel is used to playing for at least 35 minutes in each half, he must have found it difcult to keep warm!
Looking at some the other players, - they're obviously keeping a good layer of fat to help them. Faz must have been agog to look at some of his 'international' team mates and see pot-belly's!!!
Farrel can either be a power-house of stamina & aggression in the forwards or a creator at stand-off (fly-half, first receiver - whatever you want to call it). Yesterday, he wasnt played as a forward and he had very little room to work with at first receiver.
He either needs to be switched to the forwards or the attacking line from the ruck\maul\lineout\scrum needs to stand much deeper.
Either that, or get rid of a couple of players from each team to make a bit more room and tidy-up the mechanism for recyclcing the ball so that comes out quicker!
Mmmmmm!!!
PS. Farrell is the best goal kicker that there has been in either code for the last 10 years. He would have scored more points than Wilkinson, had they swapped roles, without any doubt.
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Very good, but Wilkinson deserves 10 / 10. Ellis was fab. I think he is horny
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Andy farrell's biggest problem yesterday must have been combatting the boredom!
The 91Èȱ¬ stats show that the ball was in play for about 25 minutes each half, and for most of that time it would have been in a ruck\maul\scrum etc... rather than in hands!
Farrel is used to playing for at least 35 minutes in each half, he must have found it difficult to keep warm!
Looking at some the other players, - they're obviously keeping a good layer of fat to help them. Faz must have been agog to look at some of his 'international' team mates and see pot-belly's!!!
Farrel can either be a power-house of stamina & aggression in the forwards or a creator at stand-off (fly-half, first receiver - whatever you want to call it). Yesterday, he wasnt played as a forward and he had very little room to work with at first receiver. He did his best by creating space for Wilkinson with some basic composed, awareness and some bullet cut-out passes, but he was truly wasted overall.
He either needs to be switched to the forwards or the attacking line from the ruck\maul\lineout\scrum needs to stand much deeper.
Either that, or get rid of a couple of players from each team to make a bit more room and tidy-up the mechanism for recyclcing the ball so that comes out quicker!
Mmmmmm!!!
PS. Farrell is the best goal kicker that there has been in either code for the last 10 years. He would have scored more points than Wilkinson, had they swapped roles, without any doubt.
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I think Scotland will have to make some BIG changes for next week.
1) CP in @ No.10
2) Dewey on from the start
3) CC is still not 100% play Lawson
4) SM & AK as the 2nd's
5) AJ in for GK
More passion is also needed. 24years (now 25years) with no win at Twickers you'd think the blood would be pumping and the thought of a back to back Calcutta Cup in the lions den would be enough. All this aside Wilko was OUTSTANDING and gave England that extra 10%. Looking forward to see how he shapes up against the rest.
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Wilkisons performance was fantastic although i cant help feeling that this was due in a large part to ellis and farrel. When Johnny needed it decisions were made by ellis and farrel. Farrel tok the ball at rfirst reciever many times. The trio functioned excellently and bodes well for the future.
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Andy farrell's biggest problem yesterday must have been combatting the boredom!
The 91Èȱ¬ stats show that the ball was in play for about 25 minutes each half, and for most of that time it would have been in a ruck\maul\scrum etc... rather than in hands!
Farrel is used to playing for at least 35 minutes in each half, he must have found it difficult to keep warm!
Looking at some the other players, - they're obviously keeping a good layer of fat to help them. Faz must have been agog to look at some of his 'international' team mates and see pot-belly's!!!
Farrel can either be a power-house of stamina & aggression in the forwards or a creator at stand-off (fly-half, first receiver - whatever you want to call it). Yesterday, he wasnt played as a forward and he had very little room to work with at first receiver. He did his best by creating space for Wilkinson with some basic composed, awareness and some bullet cut-out passes, but he was truly wasted overall.
He either needs to be switched to the forwards or the attacking line from the ruck\maul\lineout\scrum needs to stand much deeper.
Either that, or get rid of a couple of players from each team to make a bit more room and tidy-up the mechanism for recyclcing the ball so that comes out quicker!
Mmmmmm!!!
PS. Farrell is the best goal kicker that there has been in either code for the last 10 years. He would have scored more points than Wilkinson, had they swapped roles, without any doubt.
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Andy farrell's biggest problem yesterday must have been combatting the boredom!
The 91Èȱ¬ stats show that the ball was in play for about 25 minutes each half, and for most of that time it would have been in a ruck\maul\scrum etc... rather than in hands!
Farrel is used to playing for at least 35 minutes in each half, he must have found it difficult to keep warm!
Looking at some the other players, - they're obviously keeping a good layer of fat to help them. Faz must have been agog to look at some of his 'international' team mates and see pot-belly's!!!
Farrel can either be a power-house of stamina & aggression in the forwards or a creator at stand-off (fly-half, first receiver - whatever you want to call it). Yesterday, he wasnt played as a forward and he had very little room to work with at first receiver. He did his best by creating space for Wilkinson with some basic composed, awareness and some bullet cut-out passes, but he was truly wasted overall.
He either needs to be switched to the forwards or the attacking line from the ruck\maul\lineout\scrum needs to stand much deeper.
Either that, or get rid of a couple of players from each team to make a bit more room and tidy-up the mechanism for recyclcing the ball so that comes out quicker!
Mmmmmm!!!
PS. Farrell is the best goal kicker that there has been in either code for the last 10 years. He would have scored more points than Wilkinson, had they swapped roles, without any doubt.
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I think Scotland will have to make some BIG changes for next week.
1) CP in @ No.10
2) Dewey on from the start
3) CC is still not 100% play Lawson
4) SM & AK as the 2nd's
5) AJ in for GK
More passion is also needed. 24years (now 25years) with no win at Twickers you'd think the blood would be pumping and the thought of a back to back Calcutta Cup in the lions den would be enough. All this aside Wilko was OUTSTANDING and gave England that extra 10%. Looking forward to see how he shapes up against the rest.
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Andy farrell's biggest problem yesterday must have been combatting the boredom!
The 91Èȱ¬ stats show that the ball was in play for about 25 minutes each half, and for most of that time it would have been in a ruck\maul\scrum etc... rather than in hands!
Farrel is used to playing for at least 35 minutes in each half, he must have found it difficult to keep warm!
Looking at some the other players, - they're obviously keeping a good layer of fat to help them. Faz must have been agog to look at some of his 'international' team mates and see pot-belly's!!!
Farrel can either be a power-house of stamina & aggression in the forwards or a creator at stand-off (fly-half, first receiver - whatever you want to call it). Yesterday, he wasnt played as a forward and he had very little room to work with at first receiver. He did his best by creating space for Wilkinson with some basic composed, awareness and some bullet cut-out passes, but he was truly wasted overall.
He either needs to be switched to the forwards or the attacking line from the ruck\maul\lineout\scrum needs to stand much deeper.
Either that, or get rid of a couple of players from each team to make a bit more room and tidy-up the mechanism for recyclcing the ball so that comes out quicker!
Mmmmmm!!!
PS. Farrell is the best goal kicker that there has been in either code for the last 10 years. He would have scored more points than Wilkinson, had they swapped roles, without any doubt.
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I have to disagree with the poster above, #97, who said:
"The Italian game will be good to see how far we have progressed."
If Italy play against England like they played against France, it will be no more than a training game for England and no indicator at all of any progress.
Incidentally, I was speaking to a South African friend on Friday night and asked him where he'd be watching the 6 Nations.
"I'm not into second division rugby" was his reply.
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As a scotsman, I must take my hat off to the way England responded to their critics and altered their wayward form from the last few years. Wilkinson deserves his credit for a wonderful performance. If he had been fit for the last year, and had put that performance in it stil would have been magnificent which makes it even better considering he has played on 45 mins in 12 weeks!!!!
Scotland were lacking skill and that cutting edge. They desperately needed the likes of Jason White to lead the team as I felt patterson did not. Also there is no way Ellis would have made as many breaks if White had been playing. Scotland's backrow, at their best (White, Hogg, Taylor) is probably the best back row in the world, which describes just how poor they were yesterday with so many snipes around the fringes not being snuffed out.
I am pleased for England and they thoroughly deserved their win although I still find the TMO decision of Wilkinson's try awfully strange.
I would say all the marks above are fair and deserved, although Scotland's midfield should be dropped. Dewey at 12, Lamont at 13, and the back 3 between Webster, Southwell, Walker and Patterson.
Jason White - WE NEED YOU !!!
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Andy farrell's biggest problem yesterday must have been combatting the boredom!
The 91Èȱ¬ stats show that the ball was in play for about 25 minutes each half, and for most of that time it would have been in a ruck\maul\scrum etc... rather than in hands!
Farrel is used to playing for at least 35 minutes in each half, he must have found it difficult to keep warm!
Looking at some the other players, - they're obviously keeping a good layer of fat to help them. Faz must have been agog to look at some of his 'international' team mates and see pot-belly's!!!
Farrel can either be a power-house of stamina & aggression in the forwards or a creator at stand-off (fly-half, first receiver - whatever you want to call it). Yesterday, he wasnt played as a forward and he had very little room to work with at first receiver. He did his best by creating space for Wilkinson with some basic composed, awareness and some bullet cut-out passes, but he was truly wasted overall.
He either needs to be switched to the forwards or the attacking line from the ruck\maul\lineout\scrum needs to stand much deeper.
Either that, or get rid of a couple of players from each team to make a bit more room and tidy-up the mechanism for recyclcing the ball so that comes out quicker!
Mmmmmm!!!
PS. Farrell is the best goal kicker that there has been in either code for the last 10 years. He would have scored more points than Wilkinson, had they swapped roles, without any doubt.
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As a scotsman, I must take my hat off to the way England responded to their critics and altered their wayward form from the last few years. Wilkinson deserves his credit for a wonderful performance. If he had been fit for the last year, and had put that performance in it stil would have been magnificent which makes it even better considering he has played on 45 mins in 12 weeks!!!!
Scotland were lacking skill and that cutting edge. They desperately needed the likes of Jason White to lead the team as I felt patterson did not. Also there is no way Ellis would have made as many breaks if White had been playing. Scotland's backrow, at their best (White, Hogg, Taylor) is probably the best back row in the world, which describes just how poor they were yesterday with so many snipes around the fringes not being snuffed out.
I am pleased for England and they thoroughly deserved their win although I still find the TMO decision of Wilkinson's try awfully strange.
I would say all the marks above are fair and deserved, although Scotland's midfield should be dropped. Dewey at 12, Lamont at 13, and the back 3 between Webster, Southwell, Walker and Patterson.
Jason White - WE NEED YOU !!!
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individual ratings are always fun to argue over, but in my view the most important person doesn't get rated!
Brian Ashton.
He preaches the one thing that persistent critics have always said the england team lacks - freethought. People enjoy playing for him, and yesterday they played from the start with smiles...
Past two years we've seen good players turn into poor ones. Think of Hodgson playing fantastically against SA in Robinson's first game (before things went pear shaped) before slipping into the midfield mire of last year.
so i give Ashton an 8.
Hadden? Twickenham is a hiding to nothing for Scotland, and after 50 minutes he can't have been too unhappy with where they were, so his gameplan worked pretty well until fatigue took it's toll.
so maybe a 7 - best of limited resources.
the individual ratings for england were generous, because although individually the england players weren't fantastic, the combinations worked well, especially in the backs. from 9-14, all of them have different qualities, and because they have those qualities, they were able to play better as a unit. For example, on purely his own highlights reel, Farrell was pretty average. But he took the ball moving close to the breakdown and passed out a fair freed up Wilkinson and Tindall further out.
It's a promising start.
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i thought that ellis was outstanding and a lond with jonny wilkinsons it made a good england pofomance
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Lets see what happens. In mny respects England were not great, however this was the first time out for this team: what will be exciting is whether England can grow better in the next games - they need to.
As for Scotland - which way will they go. Will they regroup or will the morale fail them especially against the Italians. We Scots have been before - 1 good year followed by a bad.
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Im Scottish but im happy as a newcastle fan to see Wilkinson playing great rugby again, although try was no try but cant blame him or England sometimes you get them sometimes you dont,(look at Italy vs Wales last year)
As for Farrell awsome as he was in league i think he is struggling to make the impact in Union,
The marks given to Scots are fair in general however Cusiter and S Lamont could hav been different,
Cusiter was better than a 6, given that he was just back from injury and playing behind a dominated pack, Lamont wasnt getting the service so to mark him at all could be harsh but his running when he did get the ball was constructive.
If Scotland play like that for the rest of the six nations then we are on for the wooden spoon. Cause Italy are always getting better.
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I think Scotland will have to make some BIG changes for next week.
1) CP in @ No.10
2) Dewey on from the start
3) CC is still not 100% play Lawson
4) SM & AK as the 2nd's
5) AJ in for GK
More passion is also needed. 24years (now 25years) with no win at Twickers you'd think the blood would be pumping and the thought of a back to back Calcutta Cup in the lions den would be enough. All this aside Wilko was OUTSTANDING and gave England that extra 10%. Looking forward to see how he shapes up against the rest.
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I think Jonny Wilkinson and Jason Robinson both had great comeback games and for Jonny to get a full house of a try, conversion, penalty, and a drop goal was fantastic.I'll be looking forward to seeing more fantastic gameplay from the one and only England team, Come On Boys - Do Us Proud!!!
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Scottish and completely biased, BUT we were never in the match apart from the time around the Taylor's try. We certainly can't complain about the result as England looked dangerous as our defense was getting dragged around the park, whereas we could hardly get out of our half. Our best player by a mile was Cusiter, can't understand his rating. You have got to applaud Wilkinson for his display and good luck to him but it looked like Scotland made it easy for him or was that just what good players do?
We need to get people to run at the opposition and break the gainline.Play fast fast fast. England have to hope they continue to face teams that don't challenge them. You can't make a judgement on them until that happens
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As a Scotsman (who was at the game), I must take my hat off to the way England responded to their critics and altered their wayward form from the last few years. Wilkinson deserves his credit for a wonderful performance. If he had been fit for the last year, and had put that performance in it still would have been magnificent which makes it even better considering he has played on 45 minutes in 12 weeks!!!!
Scotland were lacking skill and that cutting edge. They desperately needed the likes of Jason White to lead the team as I felt Patterson did not. Also there is no way Ellis would have made as many breaks if White had been playing. Scotland's back row, at their best (White, Hogg, Taylor) is probably the best back row in the world, which describes just how poor they were yesterday with so many snipes around the fringes not being snuffed out.
I am pleased for England and they thoroughly deserved their win although I still find the TMO decision of Wilkinson's try awfully strange.
I would say all the marks above are fair and deserved, although Scotland's midfield should be dropped. Dewey at 12, Lamont at 13, and the back 3 between Webster, Southwell, Walker and Patterson.
Jason White - WE NEED YOU!!!
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TMO rating - 0
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I think wilkinson shud get a ten!! other then that all perfect
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I think wilkinson shud get a ten!! other then that all perfect
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I think cusuiter deserved an 8 or a 9 to be honest whenever he had the ball he was making scotland go forward turning nothing into something a few times had a great game considering his lack of recent match time and lack of ball in the match
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poster 115
i mentioned the Italian game as a good indicator to see how far we have progressed because they have played the French and if we cannot put points by means of unlocking the defences against the weakest nation then we may as well forget the 6N and the world Cup. We managed only three tries against the Scots but we should have scored more.
Lets see how clinical we can be in a week.
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I dont understand how Cusiter is given his world-class name tag, he terribly slow to the rucks, then he stands about looking around him for another 10 seconds. He slows down all Scotlands breaks, never quick enough to give the midfield a chance. It seems he is always on the losing side, when Rory Lawson came on the ball was so much quicker out of the rucks and Scotland looked a much better side.
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I dont understand how Cusiter is given his world-class name tag, he terribly slow to the rucks, then he stands about looking around him for another 10 seconds. He slows down all Scotlands breaks, never quick enough to give the midfield a chance. It seems he is always on the losing side, when Rory Lawson came on the ball was so much quicker out of the rucks and Scotland looked a much better side.
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poster 115
i mentioned the Italian game as a good indicator to see how far we have progressed because they have played the French and if we cannot put points by means of unlocking the defences against the weakest nation then we may as well forget the 6N and the world Cup. We managed only three tries against the Scots but we should have scored more.
Lets see how clinical we can be in a week.
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surely wilko should get a 10, he picked up 27 points assisted robinsons 1st try and made no errors. all that just after half a game of oremiership rugby so surely the pure awe of his performance nudges it up to a 10!?
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I dont understand how Cusiter is given his world-class name tag, he terribly slow to the rucks, then he stands about looking around him for another 10 seconds. He slows down all Scotlands breaks, never quick enough to give the midfield a chance. It seems he is always on the losing side, when Rory Lawson came on the ball was so much quicker out of the rucks and Scotland looked a much better side.
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wonderful game. good jonny and cusiter comebacks, scots lack strength and depth, england lacked penetration, o'driscoll and darcy would have ripped scotland apart. ellis and wilko magnificent, taylor and cusiter the pick of the scots. white so sorely missed. drop paterson he is a thing of the past, look to rebuild in that area as talent is thin on the ground. hadden made a bad selection, more talent was available on the scottish bench than was evident on the field. role on the amazing six nations. good luck to scotland in their comming matches and role on england. we wait in anticipation.
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wonderful game. good jonny and cusiter comebacks, scots lack strength and depth, england lacked penetration, o'driscoll and darcy would have ripped scotland apart. ellis and wilko magnificent, taylor and cusiter the pick of the scots. white so sorely missed. drop paterson he is a thing of the past, look to rebuild in that area as talent is thin on the ground. hadden made a bad selection, more talent was available on the scottish bench than was evident on the field. role on the amazing six nations. good luck to scotland in their comming matches and role on england. we wait in anticipation.
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As an Irishman I have to compliment England on their display yesterday. However, I given the plaudits being handed out to Wilko, which he deserves, I cannot help but wonder what will hapen to England if he gets injured. Can Ellis, who was outstanding, carry the team?
Euan, post 115, you should ask your South African friend where he sees SA fitting in the grand scheme of things after their performance in the autumn internationals.
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Being a Scot I understandable found it a dissaponting result. However 35 - 20 would have certainly been a fair result (everyone seems to agree that Wilko's try was an absolute joke).
England were undoudtedly the suprior side and deserved the win. But I do feel that the England player ratings are a little generous particularly for Farrell and Grewcock who, although did not do anything wrong, were very quiet and didn't really make much of an impression.
Wilko may have been good (probably an 8 IMO) but Ellis, as much as I felt he was not the best scrum-half in England, was definitely the most exciting and orchestrating player on the pitch.
Scotland's rating may be slightly harsh. As Jonny said apart from an England purple patch Scotland were not too far behind even if they were woefully undynamic and one dimensional. I think the backrow on the whole held their own as did Cusiter, Paterson and Sean Lamont (apart from an unluckly bounce, which as a wing myself, I can understand is a very hard thing to predict and control especially in full flight.
James Stanley can I suggest you try to be a little more impartial and objective about intra-GB sports and not say what the majority want to hear if you want to be taken and listened to seriously - you are not too far off from achieving that.
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well done england, although i think you were a bit fortunate to be playing scotland rather than a welsh team who play the game at a pace rarely seen in a white jersey, nevermind by the the time we meet we should have some of our missing players back, should see then how good ellis is without a dominating pack.
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Morgan's only slip up was due to a push while he was in the air, he ran well and kept possesion. He is still a 6/7 but Farrell and most of the forwards were not marks ahead of him
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here we go again another major sporting event and the supposedly neutral bbc commentators .is it just me or has anyone else noticed brian moores inability to make any positive remarks about any team other than england.and when any other team are going to be playing england the majority of the pre match build up is about england.ihave nothing against english people or any english sports man or women but in any sport all the home nations have one thing in common they are all just average and that includes england.
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what do you have to do to get a 10!? If scoring 20 plus points and a try try isn't good enough I don't know what is!
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I agree that England were the better team on the day, but the whole thing was spoilt by the partisan commentary on the 91Èȱ¬ by a Butler and Moore. It was a disgrace: it was either England's attack was great or England's defence was great. If it carries on like this, it should be renamed the EBC...
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The video ref should be sacked! Of all the jobs in the world, how easy must it be to sit in a studio, watch as many replays from as many angles as you want and then decide if it's a score or not? How could that idiot not see that Wilkinson's right leg was dwon before he grounded the ball?
Makes you wonder if the football guys are right all along - no point in using technology - it's only as good as the idiot who's using it!
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Wilko is a machine in fornt of goal and looked like he had never been away. however farrel was very good even though many may not have noticed. his distribution is amazing and he gives the pass at the last second. he also has a very powerful rugby league style bosh and kciked ok when needed. he is what the all blacks call a second five-eighths. lund did a lot of the dirty work and is an out and out 7 which is what we lacked under robinson. also i didnt think grewcock played that well knocked on a few time.
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if england hadn't had ellis and wilkinson scotland would of nailed the english scottish pack wasn't great s. lamont and cusiter needed higher and parks kicking was good
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Don't get me wrong, i'm an england fan, but i thought the main point of a video ref was to decide whether a try is a try or not? Any decent England fan will admit that Wilkinsons try wasn't a try, taking nothing away from a stunning return for Jonny. But take away that try and a couple of penalties and it's much closer. As many people have said above Ellis played a blinder and in my opinion should have won man of the match, even if he is a Leicester player. The pack also had a superb game, and didn't get a full praise for the work and ball they provided for the back line from the bbc commentary team in my opinion.
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Glad to see that some Scots are whingeing already this tournament. Did anyone really believe that the Man of the Match award would go to anyone else but Wilkinson or the unlucky Ellis?
As for the so called "bias" 91Èȱ¬, I thought the coverage was up to the usual appauling standard with Butler and Moore behaving like schoolboys in the commentary box. The after match analysis was even more pathetic, with far too much time devoted to the Wilkinson try. After all, although we all knew it was a poor decision, it certainly didn't effect the final outcome. I was more interested what Andy Nicol had to say about Jonnie's performance!
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Well done Johnny Wilkinson!
I have positively commented enough already, about this man - on the 91Èȱ¬ website.
But today, a day of days, I bet he even confounded even the most optimistic, even rabid - England supporters. Be honest lads!
He has had 40 minutes of International Rugby in 2 years! Then, he goes out and does that! The last time I saw someone do that at the highest level was Ali's comeback in the 70's. Magic stuff.
Suffice it to say, that the man is a paragon. He is precision personified. He is accuracy defined. He is unassuming - did you see his interview after the match? Of course you did!
He is as hard as nails - a point that belies the angelic features. He is driven (as are all World Class exponents of any sport). But most of all - and this is something that transcends all that I've said before - he is a complete gentleman.
Class, pure all round class.
The only slight problem I have with the man (yes I found his weakness) - is that he's not Irish !
Welcome back JW, may you enhance and entrance the game you love so much - way into the future. Thank you for that man. Thanks a mill. It was deep-joy to witness. It's one of the main reasons I love rugby. You are the epitome of this feeling I have for the beautiful- brutal-back-passing forward-running game.
May God bless you and mind you JW.
See you in Croker (Dublin)!
But do us a favour Johnny, please leave yer boots behind...
Leinster madman in the Netherlands
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As a Scot, I thought we were outplayed even if by a mediocre English team spurred on by two or three excellent individuals. But the final score was misleading and there was certainly a time in the match when Scotland rattled England and, barring silly penalties, a dodgy mistake and a horrendous refereeing blunder, could have moved on. Scotland's team, however, was badly selected, lacking attacking flair in the backs (bring in Webster, Walker, Evans, Dewey) and ball-carrying skills in the forwards (bring back Hogg, Hines, Ford, Murray etc) and, please Frank Hadden, have some attacking ambition rather than continuing the endless series of nail-bitingly negative defensive games over the time of your tenure.
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Yes, England were good,
but to be fair not brilliant.(yes I know we won but it was not against top opposition (im sorry Scotland!)) lets try against the Welsh,Irish,and the French then (if we win!!) I will start believing we have a chance to win the Bill for a second time, with God and a fair wind!!
BB
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Folks, a bit of balance wouldn't go amiss here. These were 2 essentially untested teams. For all the whingeing about Jonny Wilkinson's average performance, his average is far better than most people's exceptional. He certainly looked more comfortable than Ronan O'Gara did for Ireland. Actually, his best contribution was to keep the scoreboard moving at crucial times - especially the drop goal 40 seconds after Patterson's penalty. I also thought the England players looked comfortable with what they were doing, which they haven't for a while. So, a good start, and plenty to build on.
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Im sorry but can we think of the positives, we thrashed Scotland and even though it wasnt the prettiest game of rugby we did the most important job which was winning with the least amount of injuries. Jonny and Harry both deserve all the credit they are getting and with match practice this team could go and win the 6 nations and also the world cup. Was it a try??who cares because it was given as one so that should be the end of the matter!!
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The England Pack allowed Harry Ellis and Johhuy the sort of freedom he has had in some of his previous international games. He now looks the sort of player I hoped he would be from when we first saw him.
I think we wont know how good this revitalised England side is until after Ireland game.
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I thought scotland were poor and england played well, however englands back line has not filled me with un-named dread. Farrell did ok but his creative skills were obviously on walkabout, Wilkinson did well but his try wasn't. First time I saw robinson get a good head of steam up he ran straight forwards, no side step. Does he still have that? Overall englands forwards didn't demolish scotland as we'd been told, and the backs didn't gel that much. Ellis did well but won't get that space again, which is when we will find out how good he is.
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I am great admirer of rugby league and their players, non less than Andy Farrell who I often watched in his pomp at mighty Wigan so it was with astonishment that i saw him miss at least three important tackles on his debut on Saturday. I can't imagine he missed as many in a season a few years ago. Not long to sharpen up then. The days of " you could have knocked me down with a rugby union tackle, " seem to have gone.
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Firstly Jonny had an outstanding game considering what he has been through 27 points by himself but it should have been 20 (same as the opposition 15 i might add) Harry Ellis well done lad at last we have a scrum half that controls the forwards and likes to break forward in the mould of Matt Dawson. Magnus and Joe had good solid games. Corry i am sorry but that man is not a quality no 8, Silly penalty and lost control of the ball at the critical time once again. Add to the fact that i dont understand why he never drops his shoulder and charges in to a man with the ball in hand. He is a big lad but he does not make the penetration that you would expect. Mike Tindall played well. Andy farrel not bad for a first international solid and no silly errors.
Scotland fans get over it you got beaten, the best team won other than the try that should not have been you have nothing to complain about. You were not really in the game.
Well done BA and you back room staff.
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As an exiled scot brought up in London and having had a part in Rory Lamont's junior rugby career in Melton Mowbray, why not play him at full back as he is the in form full back playing for Glasgow. Chris Cusiter was a breath of fresh air but Dan Parks I thought was limited so please, please play Chris Paterson there, we'll soon see the game open up. Without Jonny playing for England the scoreline would have been different, although I'm not saying Scotland would have won as we were not at our best.
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>I thought scotland were poor and england played well
Daniel, do you think that is a realistic point of view? If you're looking at the scoreline - Scotland were well and truly in the match until about 50 minutes.
And if you look at the final score, Wilkinson's try wasn't a try, and two isolated pieces of poor defence let England in - Lamont and the non-marking of Lund. It could have been a much tighter scoreline.
Also think about this - Corey should have been sin binned for taking a man out in the air in the line-out in the first ten minutes. This seems to have been ignored in most reports.
England deserved their win, but don't delude yourselves that England are back - the Welsh, French and Irish will all be looking forward to playing you at present.
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Scotland were very poor on Sat. I was disappointed to see that such a big Scottish pack were still dominated up front. However, I think the English team were made to look better than they are. Ellis was given acres of room to make those sniping runs & that is down to terrible back row defence, not great Ellis play. In reality, if England had been playing against a decent back row then Ellis would never get that kind of freedom.
JW is a great player & hats off to him on his comeback. He will get better with each game although they will not be as easy as Sat.
I think the 6 nations is still between France & Ireland. I think both these teams will beat all the others.
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why does the bbc allow brian moore to broadcast his moronic totally all things English bias. This coupled to his grating voice is unacceptable to any neutral fovers of the game of rugby. Is the bbc now the ebc when an english team is on display?
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why does the bbc allow brian moore to broadcast his moronic totally all things English bias. This coupled to his grating voice is unacceptable to any neutral fovers of the game of rugby. Is the bbc now the ebc when an english team is on display?
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What are you on about England didn't cheat. I think certain Celts are upset because their team lsot and now they're trying to find a way to expalin it. England were brilliant and there were some good debuts and returns made. The Scots fought hard but weren't up to the challenge. Poor defending made the game easy for England.
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I'm half Italian, half English and I now live in Aberdeen, Scotland!! I watched the match in a pub with 99% scottish fans in there!! and they all said the same thing, wilko and ellis tore them apart. but then they moaned about wilkos try and tried to find excuses!! guys, we lost last year, and we moaned about our players, not everything else but e.g. bleedy lips, the 91Èȱ¬, and the ref! As for Morgan, i'm biased about cos i went to school with him, but 1 drop, thats all!! its his first cap and he put in a decent account of himself, in my opinion!
Both teams have a long way to go, so lets see what happens.
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A couple of things stand out for me.
Firstly Martin Corry. Have we all forgotten the failure of the past few matches and the subsequent loss of the captains armband for Mr Corry and what's more, the fact that the very unfortunate Dan Ward-Smith was tipped to replace him until being injured. Yet Martin Corry was there unabashed and 200% Supportive of his new skipper and coach, giving his all again and again. It shows the strength of the man both physically but more importantly, mentally. For this alone he should be scored at least an 8. In the view of a few of us at the match, he warranted that score on the merits of his performance anyway
Patterson's kicking out of hand was awesome on a number of occassions and his overall play should earn him a "bonus point"
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I'm sick of people saying that England's win was due to luck. the game of rugby is all swings and roundabouts. in the first half there was a blatant penalty when wilko was tackled off the ball when going towards the line. Now Im not saying Jonny's second half try was fair on Scotland as it WAS in touch, but its about time the lad had some luck. Plus it showed remarkable athleticism to even get the ref to consider it.
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Wilko was gifted a try and lets face it, he only needed to finish the game un-injured and he would have got the man of the match.
Good to see the old union blinkers are still on when it comes to Farrell (ring leader Mr W Carling). Without Farrell, Wilko would have been knocked all over the park and Tindell would have never broke the line, also the ball would never have left the forwards. Farrell in his 1st international took control at first receiver and organised how England played (watch the replays). The inclusion of Farrell allowed Wilko the time and space to play his own game. I think you will see him improve over the next few matches. I will knock Farrell for his defence missed some very easy one on one tackles which was very surprising.
It was also good to see a change at Hooker. At last we have a hooker that gets in the stuck in and isn't found spoiling the backs moves by standing out on the wing, blowing out of his backside like Steve Thompson who can be often found there.
If it wasn't for the comeback of Wilko then the man of the match would have gone hands down to Ellis. Great to see a scrum half have a go from the base of the scrum.
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I'm quite surprised about the comments from the Irish and Welsh about their chances against England. They are both probably man for man more skillful teams and will have home advantage (of sorts Ireland) but with a more powerful pack, pace out wide (you could have done with that Wales) and most importantly, JWilkinson, England has a very good chance of a grand slam. I thought O'Gara recovered well from the early pressure but he still seems to lose a bit of composure while Jones and Hook both need to get a lot faster with their distribution at this level or a fit Aly Hogg next week might help Scotland to an upset!
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Jeremy Gusgotts comments on this web site summing up the England/Scotland match and in particular that he can't see where Scotland will score points is suprisingly stupid! They scored twenty at Twickenham! If a team he can't see scoring points manage 20 v England how many does he see Wales, Ireland or France scoring?
I for one enjoy the hysteria which follows an English win. The greater the height the harder the fall.
Feel sorry for Ellis as he was unquestionably man of the match.
Hadden needed a thumping like this to engage his brain next time he starts on his team sheet.
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My Scottish brethren who are whining about bias should really wake up and smell the coffee. We were very poor and were outgunned by an English side who, with the exception of Wilko and Ellis, were hardly spectacular were certainly better man for man than us.
I do, however, agree about the commentary which was appalling. Moore was OK but Butler - who is allegedly a Welshman - was over the top.
Anyway, we need to change the midfield. Just now a packet of Rolos would be more effective than Marcus Di Rollo.
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Firstly, I'm scottish so posably a wee bit biased here but hey, wilkinson had an average game for a 10, he does not deserve any higher than an 7-8.
My point is, if this was dan Park's first game back after 3 years, would his score have been reflective of that??? I doubt it!
Who cares how long it was since your last game, your performance should be the only thing that influences their score.
Secondly, I think the english might be getting ahead of themselves ever so slightly. While I am not disputing the fact that you deserved to win(not by so much), i am disputing your optimisium of this "new team". Scotland failed to turn up for this game and i was exteremly dissapointed by the way they played, no flow about thier game. And england played exactly as i thought they would.... dull.
You can't compare this team to the one that won the world cup 3 years ago, and once you come up against proper opposition, i'm afraid you will be forced to agree with my point of view!
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Firstly, I'm scottish so posably a wee bit biased here but hey, wilkinson had an average game for a 10, he does not deserve any higher than an 7-8.
My point is, if this was dan Park's first game back after 3 years, would his score have been reflective of that??? I doubt it!
Who cares how long it was since your last game, your performance should be the only thing that influences their score.
Secondly, I think the english might be getting ahead of themselves ever so slightly. While I am not disputing the fact that you deserved to win(not by so much), i am disputing your optimisium of this "new team". Scotland failed to turn up for this game and i was exteremly dissapointed by the way they played, no flow about thier game. And england played exactly as i thought they would.... dull.
You can't compare this team to the one that won the world cup 3 years ago, and once you come up against proper opposition, i'm afraid you will be forced to agree with my point of view!
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fair ranking i suppose scotland aren't going to do too well until we get our back row back (especially Jason White) hate to say it but Wilkinson played amazing but his try should never have been allowed. Also England don't get your hopes up Ireland are going to slaughter you!
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I would've given Deacon a '5' at best. The biggest negative of our performance on Saturday was the indiscipline and mediocre play of the Leicester forwards.
(A second viewing of the match will confirm Corry, Chuter, Deacon all guilty of this)
Hopefully when guys like Borthwick, Chris Jones, Steve Thompson, and James Forrester return to form and fitness Ashton will give them an opportunity to do better.
By the way I am not biased against Leicester- Harry Ellis was a revelation and his breaks around the fringe were the best I've seen from anyone not named Byron Kelleher.
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i fink adt Ellis was an 8 n also Farrel wasnt great but he was a 6 a gd peformance but weak opposition especially upfront, i think u wer to nice in the ratings to Scottish forwads were too nice they were also Scotland last nad England will win the grand slam with Wilko
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I think Hadden needs to look at changes in the Scots team. We didn't compete at all. Positive things happened once Dewey came on - the boy deserves a start on Saturday. I also wasn't convinced the back row did well - too many barn door sized gaps. Give Johnnie Beattie a chance at No 8 and maybe bring in John Barclay as well. Parks didn't play well and Paterson was too out of it on the wing. I'd have him in at No 10. Cusiter was the only Scot who looked up for it in a big way. All in, congrats to England - powerful display all round. On that showing I think the grand slam is is a shoe-in for them.
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