Ireland ratings v Argentina (271)
- 30 Sep 07, 06:08 PM
Paris - I was at the Parc des Princes on Sunday as Ireland’s dismal World Cup campaign ended with a 30-15 defeat to Argentina.
Here’s how I rated each individual player’s performance. See if you agree and let us know your own thoughts.
Geordan Murphy – Try early in the second half failed to disguise a nightmare outing. Unconvincing under the onslaught of high balls that came his way, and hesitant in his counter-attacking, regularly making poor decisions and running into trouble. 3
Shane Horgan – Hardly seen as an attacking force, apart from one cross-field kick aimed at aim when he had switched to the left wing. Solid enough in defence but no real impact on the game. 4
Brian O’Driscoll – Played with passion and authority unlike those around him, constantly trying to inspire his side in adversity. Took his try superbly with a well-timed run onto O’Gara’s pass, and involved in all of Ireland’s best moments. 7
Gordon D’Arcy – Nowhere near his best again, running into trouble at times,and well shackled by the Pumas defence. One half-break in second half but spoiled it by getting turned over in the tackle. Disappointing. 4
Denis Hickie – Came to Ireland’s rescue in first half when he got to loose ball ahead of Contepomi to prevent a try, and spent most of his final Test before retirement on defensive duty. Warmly applauded as he went off with 10 minutes left, but not the way he would have wanted to bow out. 5
Ronan O’Gara – A couple of probing chips apart, his kicking game was a pale imitation of the player we have known over many years, lacking direction and power. Good pass sent O’Driscoll over, but otherwise failed to galvanise his backs. 5
Eoin Reddan – Hesitation at the base of the scrum did not help his side, and hospital pass to O’Driscoll put his side on the back foot, from where they didn’t recover. Too often scragged in possession and inexperience showed. Little to justify selectorial favour. 4
Marcus Horan – Part of a scrum which struggled to gain parity and sent backwards on a couple of occasions. Dropped pass on left flank in his only real sighting in the loose, and looked exhausted long before the end. 4
Jerry Flannery – A couple of line-out throws to O’Connell failed to reach their target but otherwise reasonably solid at set-piece. Tackled hard around fringes before being replaced with 15 minutes left. 5
John Hayes – Struggled to hold his own with Roncero at scrum-time, and spent a punishing afternoon doing his line-out lifting and defensive duties. Looked shocked to receive a pass from O’Driscoll in second half. 4
Donnacha O’Callaghan – Was Ireland’s go-to man in the line-out after O’Connell’s early troubles, tackled well around the fringes, and work on the floor retrieved ball for O’Driscoll’s try. Conceded a penalty for high tackle on Contepomi, his last act before going off with 15 minutes left. 6
Paul O’Connell – Not the reliable target of old in the line-out, missing a couple of throws, before recovering some stature in the second half. Put in his fair share of tackles and one charge late on, but his team needed more from him. 4
Simon Easterby – His usual busy stint around the breakdown area, and took a couple of line-outs, but struggled to stem the tide of Pumas marauders. Penalised for collapsing an Argentine maul at the start of second half; not ideal. 5
David Wallace – A burst off a ruck in the opening minute was the cue for his best game in the tournament, showing plenty of energy around the field, tackled well, and great support and scoring pass for Geordan Murphy’s try. Came off with 15 minutes left. 7
Denis Leamy – A couple of charges off the base of the scrum and kept hammering away until the bitter end, but couldn’t make much headway against a superb Pumas fringe defence. Driven back in the tackle on one occasion. 5
Replacements:
Neil Best – Had a three-minute spell as a blood replacement in first half, and came on for Wallace with 15 minutes, adding fresh energy to a losing cause. 6
Rory Best – Replaced Flannery after 65 minutes and found his targets at the line-out. 5
Malcolm O’Kelly – Came on for O’Callaghan with 15 minutes left but little Big Mal could do to stem the tide. Might that be the last we see of him at Test level? 5
Isaac Boss – Thrown into the fray with 14 minutes left and started with a good tackle, but little else of note. 5
Gavin Duffy – Replaced Hickie for the final 10 minutes, but saw little of the action.
Not used: Bryan Young and Paddy Wallace
Bryn Palmer is the 91Èȱ¬ Sport website’s rugby union editor.
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well they didnt half deserve that. Ireland deserve to go out, they have been shocking all tournament, while the argentines have been barbarian- esque at times. plus the tounaments not so formulaic now.
ARGENTINA FOR THE CUP!
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Gareth Jenkins has gone - will EOS follow?
I hope so because over the last couple of years EOS has turned a silk purse into a ragged collection of cows ears
Three triple crowns but with none converted into a grand slam is a failure
World Cup warm up games since this year's 6Nations have been wretched
All games in the RWC this last few weeks have been wretched
And still EOS persevered with same old tired old players
Ireland deserves better
The RWC deserves better
For God's sake go and go quickly - and please don't negotiate too hard over the release from your recently awarded but ill deserved contract extension to 2011!
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You're way off the mark this time. Geordan Murphy was very solid at the back but had limited options to counterattack as he was routinely illegally and cynically impeded chasing his kicks. For my money he was the best player in green on the park - worth 7 points. O'Gara did nothing right all night - 3 points and that's generous. O'Driscoll gets 5 because of the try but otherwise he should have been 4.
None of which is to say Ireland deserved any better than they got. But what on earth has gone wrong with such a talented side?
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a bi of a harsh rating on murphey. fair enough he wasn't great but nothing desperate. looked more of a threat then demsey ever does
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I really don't know how you can give Murphy only 3 and give O'Gara 5.
O'Gara deserved a 1 at best- I don't know what is going on in his life but I hope he is truely embarassed at what he has produced this world Cup. There is pleanty of speculation so more hiding!
There should be resignations aplenty at the IRFU starting with the committee that gave O'Sullivan a new contract before the World Cup swiflty followed by O'Sullivan himself.
Enough of the cushy numbers that they all have in the IRFU with self praise and pats on the back and free jollies for the boys.
Lets see some accountability!
Wales have got it right so lets have the back bone now to get rid of the losers
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The biggest sporting let down of my life as a sports fan.Now we know how the Scots felt after the world cup in Argentina 78.
I an afraid we rushed to make huge assumptions after wins over sub quality English Aussie and South African teams last year.
Shocking!
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A bit harsh on Murphy there I think.
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Very Harsh on Geordan Murphy and Paul O'Connell
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To suggest Murphy was only a 3 is ridiculous, he missed only 2 high balls from about 12, bearing in mind that they are such 50 50 balls. He also actually tried to create something when he had no options, he couldnt kick as Argentina regularly had men patrolling the touch line, waiting to counter. A couple of deft chip nearly came off but for the bounce of the ball.
The villain for me today was D'Arcy. I've always thought of him as being seriously over-rated, and he was turned over at least 5 times today, and made very little yardage. Shocker.
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Not that I care much - much more interested in how well Argentina played & exactly how big a gubbing they are going to give Scotland in the 1/4s, but 3 for Geordan Murphy is incredibly harsh. Did as well as could be expected under the high ball & had sod all support from Horgan in particular. Horgan deserves no more than a 2, & a 5 for O'Gara is also highly generous.
Best news of the night was seeing the back (for this World Cup at least) of the unpleasant little gobsh*te that Brian O'Driscoll has turned into. The amount of lip he gave the Argies all night looked more than a little pathetic in the light of Ireland's campaign in general, & the stuffing they received tonight in particular.
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Ireland were poor but Argentina simply brilliant, with the best half back combination in the tournament and a super pack.
Surely now Ireland realise that Neil Best must play with that extra presence, and that O'Gara simply does not have it. His tactical game is all over the place, and his kicking is pathetic. O'Sullivan got the selection wrong consistently through this tournament, and maybe rather than state that they were the underdogs against France, maybe Ireland should have expected themselves to win games against major nations.
They will never be regarded as a major rugby-playing nation if they keep touting themselves as underdogs.
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O'Gara 5? Shurely shome mistake.
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Apparently this was the best that Ireland played all tournament, so I would have hated to have seen the ratings from their earlier matches.
Argentina were just better all over the park, but especially at the breakdown.
Thought Murphy played better than a 3 and O'Gara was worse than a 5. Otherwise the ratings seem pretty accurate.
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geordan played really well i felt.! he woudl definitely have made a difference againstt namibia and georgia. his catching was wonderful and passing was quite good too. sorry but to give hickie a higher rating is just wrong.
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It just doesn’t matter. The ratings, that is. They just do not matter. What difference if one player graded out as finer in disaster rather than other players who were a less fine disaster? Does anyone actually think it matters?
Unbelievably, Ireland are a worse mess than Wales. So the price to be paid much be more severe than in Wales. The pack, the backs, the coach, the management. All embarrassing.
So, will Ireland supporters now get behind Scotland and England, at least for the week? Interesting, because the 91Èȱ¬ Nations are looking at a bleak RWC.
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Overrated O'Gara. He deserved a 2.
Under-rated Reddan. He was at least a 6.
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i agree. Ireland never in the game or any of the others really.a flash in the pan just like wales. obviously 6N form counts for diddly when looking at the RWC!
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Argentina's back row beat Ireland every time in the second half. Their kicking game was better. they deserved to win. They also deserve to be invited to join the 7 nations as it will become. Get them in before the SH invites them. They will only improve the quality.
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EOS has to go at this stage, I gave him the benefit of the doubt after the french game at croke park in the six nations. Poor warm up games for this world cup showed there was some serious doubts about his ability to lead what i think is the finest irish side ever to go to a world cup. Dont get me wrong, some individual performances left a lot to be desired but to have that many recognised world class players together for so long at both club and national level more was expected im afraid. personally i think we 'choked', the game has changed, even the so called lesser teams know this, its become more phyisical upfront, turn over ball is the key and we just didnt have that desire to get to the ball first. the better team(best team in this world cup with regards to development) won the right to play scotland and reach the semis. Ireland im afraid need to take a long look at themselves and EOS must go. well done argentina.
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What can you say! The better and more hungry group of players won the game. Fair play to Argentina. They have my support for the rest of the tournament. Ireland have proved that the likes of Darcy, O'Gara and O'Connel are simply overated underachievers and didnt step up to the mark when it mattered most. That is how they should be remembered.
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Sorry, that's a nonsense score for Murphy. At least he was trying things, unlike the waste of space on the left wing. In a normal game, maybe Murphy would have been too reckless, but Ireland had to score 4 tries!
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Two reasons we lost - O'Gara and Hernandez. This was a kicking game. Hernandez is at the peak of his form, and it is a lofty peak indeed. O'Gara is in a very scary place. A 5 for ROG is generous in the extreme.
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This could be first comment. Wow! A brief ray of sunshine in an otherwise miserable day (someone will probably beat me to it while I write a long-winded comment. Or else, everyone has opted for the wiser move of heading to the pub to drown their sorrows). Anyway, Ireland played a little better than previously but nowhere near enough (especially given how good Argentina was). And maybe it is better to go out now rather than be lambs to the New Zealand slaughter in the quarter-final. Still, Ireland were poor, tries apart, and never really threatened to take the game. How many balls did Ireland turn over in the tackle? And every time there was a ping-pong kicking exchange in the match, Ireland always ended up running up the field but with the look of waiting to get thumped by a lurking puma.
Can't quite express how disappointed I am with the performance of the team, O'Driscoll apart (despite the rumours of disquiet in the team because of his self-publicity, his play on the pitch at least earns him the right to big himself up, not so the rest of them). I guess O'Sullivan should go but I can't see it - who is there to replace him and how much compensation would he get for a sacking now with a new 4-year deal (which is a joke - could the Irish not see how stupid the English FA were when it did this for Sven)? I feel that in the six months since the six nations that Ireland has stood still while the rest of the world has moved forwards in terms of tactics and technique. Strange.
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I think that is harsh on the Irish.
No doubt argentina deserved the win but I dont think Ireland played that badly... they didnt handle the situation well at all. They panicked and threw the ball around like headless chickens.. not to mention the ping pong that played right into Argentina's hands.
Munster won against gloc and sale because they went through the phases. Ireland today did not and payed the price.
EOS to go.... I wouldnt mind that welsh coach that has recently become available!
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Shite ratings. How the hell did o gara get 5.
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As with all the home nations,the Irish forwards were smashed up front,and always second best at the breakdown.
O'Gara's kicking from hand was appalling and i'm afraid the Irish desrved exactly what they got.
I've got a horrible feeling that there will be no home nations in the semi's!!
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I think some of the home nations need to understand that they no longer have a right to be top of the tree, The Tri-Nations have overtaken everyone (including France) and the other Southern Hemisphere teams are overtaking us as well.
O'Gara has had a shambolic WC... I dont know if the rumours about his personal problems are true... but he isnt the same player Ive seen in the six nations, something isnt right with him.
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I've been a close spectator of argentine rugby over the last several years and they thoroughly deserve everything they've achieved thus far in the RWC. They should beat the Scots and suddenly they'll be in the semis, while all four home nations most likely will not be. Says it all about how world rugby's changed since 2003, and all for the better.
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Eh, Murphy worse than ROG? are ya mental? If ROG could have found touch or even space Murphy wouldn't have been put under so much pressure. Is this lets be nice to ROG day? To hell with rumours, I dont give a dam about rumours. There is something intrinsically wrong in the Irish camp and the Irish rugby following public deseve and will demand to know what it is. How can the same bunch of fellas that were so good 12 months ago be so bad now. Heads must roll. Where's me hurling stick?
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ROG deserved a 6 for his passing
Murphy a 6 for trying and for some goo takes. He has not played in a month.
O'Driscoll deserved a 8-9
O'Connell played like a man possessed, deserved an 8.
Backrow deserved 0 for getting mugged on the deck, you could call it cheating but I call it streetwise and playing to the whistle.
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The Argentinians were far too strong for Ireland in the contact area. Whenever Ireland attacked they were met by a wall of players and lost the go-forward momentum.I guess todays performance was symptomatic of Irelands tournament as it showed that Ireland do not have a successful kicking game under pressure
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Argentina didn't half deserve that win - fantastic result for them; Ireland played with more passion than they had all tournament, but passion isn't enough. Also thought Murphy was one of Ireland's better players.
Incidentally, Stuart Barnes referred to Corleto's half-block on Murphy as 'cynical', whereas Horan's similar effort on a Puma was referred to as 'clever play' - is this Barnes the one-eyed monster at his best?
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Harsh on Geordan Murphy - he had a hard time from the referee too with some nasty impeding from the Pumas.
Ireland did look threatening at times and it was an entertaining game. Shouldn't be too hard on the team - Argentina are one of the form teams and will be through to the semis. If they play to their potential you can see them as finalists.
This was the hardest group to progress from but its still disappointing to think that this Irish teams greatest achievement was a triple crown... I still struggle to get over the moment they fell asleep against France in this years six nations.
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O'Gara was wretched, his confidence is shot to pieces, how many kicks from play went straight in to Argie hands? D'arcy has turned in to a poor mans Rob Henderson, he just runs straight at the nearest opponent. There must be a better prop than John Hayes, at one stage the ball came to him (by accident!) in open play and he just fell on the ground. Murphy was only ok. Hard to pick out any positives, thought O'Connell and Wallace weren't bad. Neil Best adds a sense of urgency. Overall very depressing viewing, at one stage the mother walked in to the room and watched for 5 minutes, "why don't they run down the other end and get a try?" she asked like only a woman could. The 91Èȱ¬ wouldn't print my reply. EOS needs to do the honourable thing and fall on his sword. He'd probably miss.
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That's both Celtic nations dumped out at the group stage. Doesn't it say something about the competion they face week in week out during the season? Having said that none of the Northern hemisphere sides look to have improved their game or attempted any change of tactics since the last World Cup. They appear to rely on referees being pedantic and blowing up for every minor infringement so that they can start every move from a setpiece. Maybe our referees should be told to keep the game moving then new tactics would have to be found.
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Thought Murphy and O'Driscoll tried hard and showed glimpses. Anyway no complaints, we underperformed in the four chances we got. I think we deserve some real answers now, no more of this pr rubbish.
I for one will be rooting for the Scots and English, they would cheer for us.
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I quote
"A couple of probing chips apart, his kicking game was a pale imitation of the player we have known over many years, lacking direction and power. Good pass sent O’Driscoll over, but otherwise failed to galvanise his backs."
Your words Bryn, not mine, so by what criteria could Ronan O'Gara possibly warrant 5 on a ten point scale?
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Murphy can feel hard done by. He added some pace to a very unimaginative back line. Its difficult to understand why he wasn't playing in the earlier games. If so we might have got all the bonus points and just been playing to beat Argentina today rather than trying to force tries. Ireland seemed to totally lack a game plan in this and the previous games. O'Gara was terrible. Why didn't he take the early penalty? Has he forgotten how to kick?
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ireland hope of winning a world cup disappeared with the retirement of david humphries, stringer and o'gara have managed to nullify wot was potentially 1 of the most xciting back lines in the world. If o'sullivan cannot realise that ireland should be picked from 4 provinces and play quality like trimble, neil best and ferris he should do the honourable thing and resign. The front five are tryers but 2 have a future the selectors should visit new zealand and see wot irish ancestry can find a new tite five.
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Congrats to the Argies...totally deserved.
O'Gara has been a Disaster again...Darcy Terrible...The Pack out Fought.
Bad selection, lack of tactics....EOS you are the Weakest Link...Goodbye
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Obviously not a murphy fan then? 3 is just ridiculous. Re Barnes's 'one-eyed monster' it's not something I like to think about; rmh13 obviously knows him better than most!
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As above, I think you have been a little harsh on Murphy and O'Connell, but do accept that Murphy did fail to take some critical high balls. As for losing the ball in contact....where was our back row all night??? I'm sick of saying Neill Best should have been on.....and why did O'Sullivan take 4 blindsides (Best, Quinlan, Easterby and Ferris) and only one 7 and 1
one 8???? Keith Gleeson has had a couple of super seasons.
I find your rating of O'Gara incredible (he doesn't even deserve a 2). He failed to find touch all day, he took all the wrong options, he kicked possession away and literally kicked down Argentinian throats all day. You seem to have rated him based on one good pass....one good pass in 80 minutes...I wouldn't give a schoolboy a good rating for that. The question has to be asked, what does he have to do or not do in order to be dropped? Why was Wallace not brought of the bench, when we knew we were out of the cup anyway??? There seems to be two Irish squads there, one to play rugby (badly) and one to hold tackle bags!!! But thanks Drico fo some of that old magic and a few glimmers of hope..
Bye Bye Eddie...IRFU lookm to Wales for direction
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Disagree with the ratings for Murphy and O'Gara. If anything they should be exchanged for each other. Murphy was reminisent of Jason Robinsons performance against the Boks and deserved a bit more credit.
O'Gara was shocking today and maybe with some precision kicking from Parks and Paterson next week, we'll get some revenge for you guys!
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A bit harsh on Murphy, especially if o'gara getting 5, ( he didn't even find touch 5 times!) O'Sullivan must go!! Poor use of bench and it seems its harder to get dropped than picked.
Why bring wrecking balls like Steven Ferris and Neil Best then not use them? Or continue with the woeful O'Gara and leave twinkle toes Wallace on the bench????
O'Sullivan is a full, not as big a full as the I.R.F.U however who gave him a new 4year contract!!!
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maybe n.ireland should start their own rugby team, they couldnt be any worse than the ireland team, and at least the ulster players would get a game.
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I think its fairly harsh to give Geordan Murphy a rating of 3 out of 10 i think if 3 was giving to Geordan the rest of the team should have had the same. I believe that Geordan was one of the best players today and i think that O gara's performance has been appauling throughout the tornament, he never seemed to have found his boot. The way i see it there was one player playin out there for Ireland today and that was none other than Brian O'Driscoll
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firstly well done argentina you deserved to win.how did you give o gara more than murphy he didnt deserve to be even rated as for eos time to go no tactical know how. how can irelands call inspire anyone it should be the national anthem sang before the game
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Murphy was better than a 3 and O'Gara worse than a 5. Switch those two round and you'll be nearer the mark.
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A lot of people who criticise O'Sullivan do so on the assumption that he has squandered a "golden generation".
In fact, that assumption is totally wrong. O'Driscoll apart, Ireland don't have any really good players - they're all second-raters. For instance, for years D'Arcy has been considered to be almost the equal of his partner at centre, but I must have missed the matches when he played well. Look at the rest of the backs - who is there who merits the description "golden"?
No, I don't think O'Sullivan can be treated as having created lead from gold. At best, you only had fool's gold - as the Pumas demonstrated very clearly today.
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Argentina to join the 6 nations!
That's if they don't feel the standard is too low (!)
Their players all seem to be playing
in the leagues here anyway and don't have much else to look forward to...
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Well.....hindsight and a few beers later....sadly hasn't dimmed the complete and utter destruction of what was Irish rugby's elite! O'Gara so long Irelands talisman was a sad shadow....so even if rumours weren't true about his private life...he seemed to believe them! BOD is carrying an injury and Darcy plays like he is...neither Hickie nor Murphy despite prostetations got into more than a canter if the try line wasn't in view.... if you are running back the ball....then at least...RUN!!!
We will return and we will get better but another WC and another dream shattered...is it time for EOS to go....I'm afraid it probably is...and hopefully some of the wiser old hands will move on as well....and give the next gen a chance they should have had at this WC! Becuase if you are going to lose.... at least lose knowing that next time will be better!
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the murphy rating is very harsh he played a good game under pressure.
i have to laugh to myself though, we often refer to ourselves ans the best fans in the world, and maybe we are as underdogs, but when we are rated as one of the best teams around i have found we are a fickle lot. sure we had a bad tournament, but the abuse most of you are giving these guys is unwarranted, especially towards O'Gara who is widely rated as one of the top out-halves untill now apparently. i say we should cop onto ourselves realise that these 30 men are only human and despite what some of you might think gave it their all. sure i'm disappointed even depressed but tomorrow is another day. i say bring on the 6 nations. this hurt felt by the irish rugby nation will hopefully drive us forward.
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Your ratings are a joke. I was obviously watching a different game.
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D'Arcy is ridiculously one paced and workmanlike - rarely seen a player's skills dip so sharply as his have. O'Connell again went out of his way to bewilder those constantly told he's world class, and Geordan Murphy's diving into an Argentinian each time he put a high kick up was the most embarrassing thing at the RWC. Reddan has shown nothing to justify Stringer's rather ungallant axeing too.
Ireland, like D'Arcy, are too one paced and predictable. The forwards spent the second half being turned over and bossed around, absolutely no spark up front. I'm sorry for the Irish, but they can't argue they deserve to still be in the RWC.
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How come O'Connell only got 4? the only player other than O'Driscoll to take it too the Argentines and bar a couple of line outs was very solid.
O'Gara did NOT deserve 5 he was only worth 3. His only influence on the game was his pass to BOD to send him over. Kicked poorly, from hand and from the ground.
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This thread is in danger of getting side tracked into just defending Geordan Murphy (Bryn he was clearly more than a 3 and was arguably our best back on display).
The real issues are:-
1. No proper use of the bench, both in RWC and throughout EOS's tenure - a nucleus of only 12 - 13 trusted players will never be enough.
2.The contact players have not been used properly and that has come home to roost not just today but also for goodness sake against Georgia.
3. Those in the know have appreciated for some time now that the team is stale - there has been no orderly building of a squad wih proper competition for places.
4. Everything is too cosy in Irish rugby - the equivalent of the infamous English committee of old farts. There is a perception both inside and outside Irish rugby circles that things are too political and if you are in the Munster pack you are in the Irish pack - that needs to change.
5. We need ideas - any NZ provincial coach and/or assistant would rapidly improve us.
This is an objective view on a bloody depressing campaign.
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None of the Irish players deserved above 6.
They were second best all over the field - third best in some cases when the Argies brought on a substitute.
Loved BOD's "Its on!" threat to the Argies after his try, but it didn't fire up his own team in the way it should. In fact, it probably fired up the opposition more, judging by the way they took it to the Irish up front.
Argentina deservedly into QFs and 4th in world rankings on merit. If they can sustain this level they can get to the final without any doubt.
As for Ireland, I think the fact that they're going home with Wales says it all. Two squads who have spent too long believeing their own hype without really delivering.
Some of the Irish players have had lots to say in recent years (like some of the Welsh) and now its being rammed back down their throats.
Good luck to Argentina.
Ireland got what they deserved.
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Argentina were far superior in the contact area. When you look at the amount of times Argentina got over the gain line and the amount of times Irish momentum was brought to a shuddering halt, you can see why Argentina won comfortably in the end. However, it must be said that the Irish kicking game was awful- when the chips are down you need your kicker to relieve pressure and sadly Ronan O'Gara was not up to the task. Some major rebuilding needed methinks....
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Very disappointed in the performance. I feel that O'sullivan has to go. But being honest we all know that won't happen.
This was to be the highlight of this golden age of Irish players lives. Now they did make silly handling errors, but I think the fault lays at the feet of the EOS. The game plan was all wrong. Hicky brought back in for speed on the wing, but we never played with width. Failed battering attempt to go through the middle. The only time width was used murphy picks up an easy try. Our charges through the middle were to easy for a strong argentian pack to defend.
Does Osullivan know what a squad is for?? Carney must rue the conversion from league to union.
Taking hicky off in his last match - a discrace. granted redden deserved a chance, but dropping Stringer completely from the bench? The team looked lacking in convidence throughout the world cup. But O'Suillivan could havbe only enhanced this lack of confidence with his decision making - and he must have created serious discontent in the squad.
Must say O'gara kicking has been shocking - I feel for all the boys in green.
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I think a 3 for murphy is very harsh, he was much better than ROG.
Irelands main problems at this world cup (not including rumours of unrest) were the same problems they have suffered in the past - they can't perform on the big stage.
This and lack of back-up players in key positions such as number 10 are to blame.
The other big problem were the performances against the so-called "weaker" nations - failure to win a bonus point against gerogia left Ireland needing to do too much against a very good and strong argentina team (who should now be semi-finalists at least).
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O'Gara never to play for Ireland again, the subs that came on proved that they should have being starting games eariler in the tourment, hense O'Sullivan must resign or be fired.
this is O'Sullivan fault. you canot bleam the players that are chosen to play,
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Harsh score for G.Murphy - he might not be a textbook player, but at least he gives it a go. Time to clean out the team and give some new faces a chance - Ireland can only improve on this dismal display.
At least we got to cheer over a couple of tries today (I was at the Stade de France last Friday..) but Argentina were better at everything. The amount of balls they turned over was amazing. They will certainly give the Scots a run for their money next week.
Its a sad end to a woeful tournament.EOS how do you intend to explain yourself out of this one?
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If you want to be the "elite" of rugby don´t let us (Argreats) play in the tri N or six nations !!!
it would be your (irb world) biggest mistake !!!
Argentina World champions infootball
Basketball
hockey
Polo
F1, box
golf(teams)
and r garros,us open,aus open, Davis
cup finalist... olympic bronze in volleyball ... maradona , ginobili,....fangio... HERNANDEZ !!!!
WITH A SMALL BUDGET THE GREATEST TALLENT IN THE WORLD AND ONLY 30 MILLIONPEOPLE SO IRB ... DON´T GIVE US A CHANCE !!!
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This Irish team always choke. How many times have they blown a Grand Slam chance? Then there was giving away the match against France at Croke Park.
I said a year ago to an Irish rugby writer that Ireland would do nothing in the RWC because when the pressure is on they fold.
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Did O'Sullivan really bring players like Neil Best, Stephen Ferris, Alan Quinlan, Paddy Wallace and Brian Carney with the intention of actually playing them? Every other coach, whether they needed to or not, played their entire squad at some point in the pool games. Eddie didn't. I said after the French match that we had nothing to lose and that the best chance we had of making the quarters was to make wholesale changes. Can anyone tell me, would those players named above have done any worse than those playing today? Keeping in mind most of them played in Argentina this summer and were able to run a full strength Argies team fairly close. Eddie has made some awful decisions starting way back when he decided to leave his entire first choice team at home for the summer tour and then choosing fairly crap warm up games, especially the one against Scotland, why field teams of players you had absolutely no intention of ever playing!!! This is just like Sven taking Theo Walcot to the footie world cup and then not giving the kid a game. Eddie, even my dog can see you're a fool, do the honourable thing and fall on your sword. At the minute Rala the bagman could do a better job.
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Argentina won because they played an 'Irish' game: strong scrummaging, keeping it tight and kicking huge up-and-unders every time. Since professionalism we think that we can play a 15-man game because we have one good back: it didn't work in Mike Gibson's day ... and it certainly didn't work today.
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Murphy did ok under a lot of pressure.
O'Gara was, 2 passes apart, absolutely woeful.
How the Ireland back row can get passing marks when Argentina totally dominated the breakdown is a mystery.
Even assuming he is a good coach (debateable) EOS's regime has become stale.
Future looks bleak.
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Don't really understand how Murphy can get a 3 whilst O'Gara escapes with a 5! O'Gara 3, Murphy 6/7. Murphy was certainly one of Ireland's better players and confirmed what most people already realised, that he should have been starting instead of Dempsey for a long while now...Dempsey just isn't good enough if Ireland ever want to be taken seriously as a top rugby nation
O'Gara such a key dictator of play for Ireland has been completely missing this WC and no coincidence that the Irish game has been in turmoil as a result
Can't quite grasp how O'Connell gets a 4 when other than one or two loose line-out takes he was solid and probably the only Irish forward other than Wallace who looked like gaining any yards with the ball.
9,10,12 combination for Ireland has been shocking...Argentina have shown just how important it is for these players in particular to stand up and be counted. the only starting players that can leave the WC with any pride are BOD and Wallace
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I agree and disagree #47 Niall.
Ireland's Call isn't inspiring, just a nice wee sing song.
BUT
There is no 'national anthem' for an all-island rugby team.
As for the ratings, a bit erratic, but then that's just like Ireland have been, so maybe they're spot on.
ROG gets a 1, maybe a 2.
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Murphy didnt deserve 3. He played very well under high ball and was most threatening back bar Bod. Rog very poor. And forwards out fought by a good side. BOD outstanding and if u alk about whinging gobsh*tes what about Pichot. Good luck Argentina.
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To me O'Driscoll is the only Irish player to come out of this debacle with his reputation intact.
Murphy had a steady game and was left isolated far too often. Your scoring of him was harsh.
Too weak, too slow to the breakdown and just not up for the task, sums it up for me.
I think POC, D'Arcy, Horgan to name but a few have left this tournament with their reputations in tatters, rightly so.
No pace in the backs to bring on, O'Sullivan looked on and simply looked void of ideas, something all too familiar.
Would seem that the poison pig headed little dwarf will not bow down. He should do the honourable thing (which I think will be above him) and resign. As for the IRFU, hindsight!!!!!
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For me this just showed the ever widening gap between the Southern and Northern hemispheres. Whereas a few years ago teams like Ireland and Wales would expect to beat the likes of Fiji and Argentina through their superiority at set pieces and their discipline, now though they are being bullied off the park and just seem incapable of competing with the physicality of the southern hemisphere teams. In my opinion the guinness premiership is just not up to the standard of Super 14 etc and therefore when it comes to internationals it is a one horse show.
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What can I say? Even if we welsh crashed out against fiji, we did go down fighting (five tries).
Argentina, lets be fair, did to Ireland what they did to France, which was pin them back in their own half. Theyve got Speedy Gonsales on both their wings, its whats making their kicking game so good--how many times were hickie, horgan and murphy collecting under pressure?
ROG, personal life aside, was dire. Argentina were deliberately not finding touch. ROG just seemed to have forgotten how to kick. surely he should have been benched at half time, try-scoring pass aside.
Im afraid that Scotland are going out at the quarters, and Argentina have also effectively knocked out France as well. New Zealandll put the fifty points past them, but it was Argentina who did the damage.
Hernandes deserves a 9. One hell of a fly-half, quality kicking, jumps like a full-back, passing is superb, even Stuart Barnes had to admit it. If you had to pick the worlds best fly halfs he wouldnt be far behind carter--maybe better than wilkinson? Give him regular game time and he undoubtedly will be, the mans a class act. And the Argentine backrow deserves a ten, they mugged Ireland in the ruck.
surely you should rate the Argentines, bryn?
And can anyone else see them beating South Africa and making the final? itll be a hell of a match...
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Bryn,
You were at the match. Good for you. But you would probably have had more of a clue if you watched it on tv, becacuse you were way out on what actually happened. Ronoan 'O Gara 5!, which means he played better than the average Irish player according to you!. ROG was shocking! In such a pivotal position, he had the oppertunity to make or break Irelands game. And he broke it big time. He supplied Hernandes with counter attacking ball each time. ROG should be dropped from Ireland and Munster(come on Paul Warick) and Bryn Palmer should be dropped from the bbc for getting it so wrong. Geordan Murphy 3? Geordan Murphy was our best player today behing BOD.
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i ehco the comments sayin very harsh on murphy and o'connell, who as much as o'driscoll. far too generous to o'gara aswell, who apart from 2 decent passess, had a nightmare.
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I listened to this on the radio switching between 5-Live and an Irish broadcaster
On both they seemed to think
Geordan Murphy actually had a great game,also Paul O'Connell..
while Ronan O'Gara was rated as pretty terrible...
Would also say, perhaps a bit rough on Denis Hickie taking him off in his very last game for Ireland with minutes remaining and no real chance of a revival, given his record as a leading (think second leading) all time try scorer for Ireland?
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The ratings are perfect after watching the match, Ireland were out played by a fired up and confident team. The front 5 were out played with Argentina being at the break down before Ireland. The better team won, and I wish them all the best.
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Along with many others, I feel the mark given for Murphy is extremely harsh. He was by far the most threatening in a green shirt today. BOD was fairly good, and at least tried hard, but, the try notwithstanding, by and large I felt his running was uninspired and rarely threatened. I also felt that his after-match comments on Argentina were graceless in the extreme - but he's never been one for giving credit to others.
O'Gara was abysmal. Not reading the Irish press I haven't the foggiest what the allegations about him might be, but whether or not they're true, something's obviously gone terribly wrong with him.
I'm opeaking as an Englishman, but I can't see how the Irish FA can possibly stick with EOS after the last few weeks.
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i think your being a bit harsh on murphy. I thought he was comfortable at the back and took many high balls with ease. He deserved about 6/7. O'Gara deserved about 2/3 he kicked too much and failed to connect with the ball in serveral ocassions and subsquently failed to find touch.
Even tho Ireland played dire in parts they had a tougher group than others. France are a good side and Argentina are playing awesome at the minute. EOS, i feel should not go. Ireland just need to regroup and get some younger players in.
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The sooner we include Argentina in the Six Nations the better.
You can argue about the mileage all you want, but think of it this way - if they join the tri-nations, imagine how good they will be after regularly playing tests against the Saffas and Kiwis...
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I think you missed the boat on one rating - O'Connell was more like a 7, playing his heart out for 80 minutes.
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Totally off on the murphy rating. Fair enough he ran into trouble a few times and got turned over but quite frankly i thought he looked pretty assured when catching apart from when he was beaten by an aggresive Argentine chase. All credit to the argies they've really got a good bunch of players and have shown how far they have come in a few years all credit to loffreda he's done a fantastic job!
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Along with pretty much everyone else, i feel you have messed up with your scores for ROG and Murphy. I would have given ROG 1 at best - if the stories of personal problems are true, I feel sorry for him; but he should either have put them behind him when pulling on the jersey, or not pulled it on at all. Murphy tried hard but had no support, so I feel 6-7.
Also along with everyone else, I think EOS has really been a shocking waste of oxygen this WC. Our back row were invisible all WC, and weren't subbed until it was too late to matter. Why wasn't Neil Best on from the start? At least he gives a bit of desire!
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This was a team effort and ALL played badly.
The IRFU should grasp the nettle immediately and say bye to EOS - like the Welsh were smart enough to do to Jenkins. EOS is not good for the Irish team in a world class sport. The pace of great rugby is dictated by the Southern Hemisphere teams and EOS does not embrace that. Ireland have 3 Grand Slams because the quality of "6 nations" rugby is so poor and France just use it as a training opportunity.
EOS out please and lots of this team's players retiring to spend even more time with their egos. Lots of opportunities in writing books over the winter!
New International quality coach please and lots of hard work over the next few years to create a quality, consistent, 32 county, Irish rugby team.
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are Ireland paying the price for consistency of selection ? The Irish side has almost picked itself for the last few years and it seems that now the form has gone EOS didn't know where to turn. I also wonder if the backs been playing together for so long that the opposition know what they're upto before the BOD & Co.
I for one cannot understand why Carney wasn't included. They desperately needed something different and his strength and running could have done that.
I thought Argentina were fanastic felt BOD's comments were off the mark saying that Argentina didn't try to play any rugby. They are a good, clever side. There's probably many a Scot wishing that they now played France in the qtrs.
And Murhpy should stop watching Pez, one you can get away with but c'mon !
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So many questions for EOS: O'Gara's form has been abysmal - why did he persist with him? If he had no confidence in the replacement, why bring him? Why bring Brian Carney and then refuse to use him in place of an obviously unfit Horgan? David Wallace was also obviously unfit - how did he neglect to bring a scavenging open-side as back-up or even first-up? Ireland used fewer players than anyone else in the tournament, even the "minnows" had the confidence to go to the bench - did he learn nothing from the last RWC? How did he expect players like Neil Best to influence the game with 7 minutes remaining like in the France game?Ireland's lack of ability to keep possession was amateur - was it the strategy to kick away what possession we had at every opportunity? I could go on, but I'll leave room for others. We MUST learn.
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The building for the next world cup starts now. EOS has demonstrated that he's not up to the task. Poor preparation, poor discipline, poor organisation, and inaedquate use of the full squad. IRFU, do the right thing - send him on his way.
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How can you give Murphy a 3 when the Irish pack were murdered at the breakdown all afternoon and coughed up an embarrassing amount of turnovers?
The Irish pack is past it's sell by date as are Stringer and O'Gara. EOS has failed Irish rugby by failing to develop any strength in depth. He should do the honorable thing and resign now before the Irish suffer any further humiliations.
If this is the standard that the Magners league produces (and Wales look to be in the same boat) then it makes a laughing stock of that system. Perhaps they should go back to a strong club based game, which is where the Argentinians are developing their skills.
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A bit harsh because this wasn't a defeat to Georgia, Romania or even Italy. Argentina are a quality side and will most likely be deserved semi finalists.
Can we have them in the 6N please?
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How you can give ROG anything over a 3 I don't know. Across all of the World Cup tests, I don't think I've ever seen him play as badly. In my mind, losing the talismatic player that Ronan is when he is on form for a muppet who found touch a handful of times throughout the whole tournament (Ronan in all of the matches) is the difference between Ireland going home early and Ireland coming out of the pool of death
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I am sorry but obviously you were not at the game .
15. Murphy - Had a great game solid under the high ball mixed up his returns however when running had no options outside no support apart from POC and BOD . 7
13 .BOD - Back to his best.8
10 .O'Gara - Absolutely awful to blame for the argentinians first two trys with his sloppy kicking ,gave possession back to the argentinians all day couple of good passes for the scores but really awful all day . A lucky 2
5 .O Connell - POC fielded all day missed a line out in the first five after which he was pretty much the best irish forward on the park ,involved in everything restart work was superb plus a couple of good carries maybe he should switch to 8 ?. 7
9 Reddan - No where near a 4 thought he had a good game mixed it up passing was crisp and accurate ,had a couple of breaks and tried a few kicks should have tried more when he seen ROG . 7
Wonder why eddie didnt give horgan a game he was kitted out should have let him play .
Well done Argentina great result and performance good luck in the rest of the world cup .
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How can anyone have watched that & though O'Gara was 2 marks better than Murphy?
Murphy was streets ahead. I'd have had Murphy 6/10 - O'Gara was horrendous 3/10 max (and 1 of those is for the pass alone).
Wasn't that impressed with Wallace & especially O'Driscoll either. I could at a push have them as 2nd & 3rd best Irish players but neither were anywhere near 7/10.
Some great moments from BOD but some bad ones too. Wallace got better as the game went on but 1st half wasn't too impressive. 5/10 for both.
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Ireland have been dismal in the lead ups and the tournament itself. As good a player as BOD is the, I agree with a previous comment regarding BOD. I can't stand his smarmy, prickly attitude. He should be a great more deal humble in light of how badly Ireland have played. Forget the losses to France & Argentina, Georgia should have beaten Ireland!
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Are you tring to wind us up even more?
Murphy was by no means the savour that we had hoped for but at least he was trying to create SOMETHING.He deserves 6/7 and O Gara 2/3.Same for Darcy,who is a shadow of the player he was 6 months ago.I dont believe you are being objective but are just trying stir already strained nerves.The bottom line is that we were beaten by a world class team who I believe can get to the final
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Think it just shows what a terrible state home nations rugby is in. Neither Ireland Wales Scotland or England ever seem to learn from the thumpings they are currently getting from southern hemisphere teams and the Argies. Things need to change. When will they learn that it's no longer good enough to just secure ball at the breakdown. They are gonna have to get a hell of alot more physical on the ground or the likes of samoa and tonga are gonna start surpassing them aswell!!
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See 83 - Oh ... nearly forgot. The 4 provinces flag means nothing at international level. Lets, for god's sake,bury the dreary "Ireland's Call" and find a talent to write something more resounding, inspirational and uplifting to replace "Ireland's Call" and the dirgelike "Fields of Athenry"!
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Too much, too little too late, please lets not try again.
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Mostly fair, they haven't been good enough at all.
Brian O'Driscoll was immense.
I would say that i think that's a bit harsh on Geordan Murphy who is easily the best Irish full-back and should have started every match.
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A 7 for Wallace? Come on, Ireland were turned over about a dozen times in the second half, that's his responsibility! A couple of decent carries can't make up for that. The game was won and lost at 7 and 10. Argentina were magnificent.
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I think Eddie has to go, but as his employers are the IRFU no doubt there will be fudge.
While you cannot take away the fantastic job he's done overall (highlights been beating england 4 times and running the All Blacks close in Waikato Stadium and Eden Park) his success was built on three things 1. The good work done by Gatland (harshly treated by the IRFU) 2. Quality players (and they still are) 3. The poor state of the Game in Europe (Englands template has been followed for too long)
I seriously doubt Eddie will go but i think he has to not so much relinquish control but get advice from a top coach who performs the role of technical advisor some one of the calibre of Nick Mallet, Eddie Jones or even Robbie Deans.
There also has to be cultural change with our small playing base we are more akin to Australia than anyone else. When they have problems they rectify them. First up the Aussie scrum was poor but since the introduction of a scrum school its improved. Why can't the IRFU do the same and give the job to Paul Wallace or the Claw to help improve the Scrum. Set up a national academy for the scrum for under 18's.
Secondly find a proper openside flanker i watched munster v dragons and Ronan looked pretty good a bit light but a scrapper or give Jonny O Connor a strech on the team.
Yet the young lads have a run in the seniors. Cian Healy Luke Fitzgerald etc ditch the old guard gradually. Though Stringer has to Go now. Ask why Jeremy Manning is not getting game time in Munster been 3rd choice 1st 5/8th?
Build for two players per position that can cut international standard. Every province in NZ from Bay of Plenty to Waikato are doing this. If you check the NPC the quality of games have been higher than even some RWC games.
Lastly set a meduim term goal of beating the all blacks in autumn 2008 at croke park.
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It's all been said...we lost, we were bullied all over the park and O'Driscoll and O'Sullivan trot out the same old platitudes. Given this crop of Irish players, it should never have come down to a one-off game to decide whether we satyed or went home early...thanks EOS...
As for the irish fans being fickle...I don't think the fans who screamed and sang their hearts out at the gae, or in pubs all over the world are fickle. A fair many of them may even be posting here. I don't consider it fickle to call a spade a spade...this team underachieved...end of story. (EOS...get it?)
Then I read EOS saying he will saty on as he has a job to do...what job...this RWC proved he is not capable of doing the job.
He must go, but Irish pigheadedness in the IRFU will see him stick around for another year or so. We will have a miserable six nations campaign and then, and only then, might he be forced out.
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EOS should be sacked along with Bryn from 91Èȱ¬ for his player ratings on Murphy and O'Gara.
Argentina must be in with serious shout for final - and fair play to them.
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We saw the first two pool games, and the writing was on the wall. Ireland were not at all convincing and, in truth, should have lost to Georgia. The pack isn't good enough to win and retain the kind of ball that backs need in modern rugby - though the Irish backs wouldn't have been good enough to use the ball as intelligently and competently as the All Blacks, say. Furthermore, the northern hemispere sides haven't mastered the arts of cheating at the breakdown.
I thought you were harsh on Murphy, but not as harsh as some correspondents suggest. His decision-making was very poor on several occasions, when he turned the ball over and gave the initiative to the Argentinians. Argentina is a good team, but not that good; however their number 10 is a superb player and Pichot is a wily general. They'll get to the semis and might even make it to the final.
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Hopefully that's the last we'll see and particularly hear from O'Driscoll for a while now. Frank Rizzo (93) has it dead right when he refers to his smarmy prickly attitude. The guy is a huge talent but spolis it with this prima donna approach more suited to a soccer game.
If he's not rolling around pretending to be injured every five minutes, he's whinging at the ref or the opposition. It's little wonder opponents lose their temper with him every now and then...he asks for it!
His failure to acknowledge the intelligent tactics employed by Argentina just prove what a poor sportsman he is. Good luck Argentina!
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A disappointing but predictable result given the manner in which Ireland had struggled to gel together and play as a team in the first three matches.
Where do we go from here? Although EOS insists that he intends to remain as coach,with a new contract in his back pocket, the IRFU need to decide whether they stick with him for the next 4 years and stagnate or bite the bullet and sack him for a SH coach with new ideas and energy to bring to the team. The latter course is the only way forward if Ireland are to to make an impact on the world rugby stage. It will be a costly divorce for the IRFU but thay have made their own bed of nails and and now have to lie on it!
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It made ghastly viewing, though none of the home nations has done much better. Ireland paid the price for not doing the business against Namibia and Georgia, and also for France letting Argentina get off to a flying start. Preparation before the tournament, all wrong; Team selection, dubious though not sure that made much difference; Tactics, not evident; depressing to see a once excellent team disintegrate but no-one could ever have seriously have thought that they had a chance of winning the tournament. Only England have the self confidence to say they will win and mean it and look what is happening to them - I don't think any of the other teams left are quaking at the thought of playing them. Murphey was better than 3 and O'Driscoll did try to lift the team but, like George Best, he needs someone to tell him not to try to beat the opposition on his own. Time for big changes, to go back to basics to build a new team round the world class players Ireland still have who are not reaching or past their sell-by date. Hmm, do Ireland still have any of those? Only O'Driscoll and Wallace on todays performance but I think the damage was done before. Never mind, we'll still be cheering the lads on come the New Year and ever optimistic that this time it will be our day.
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Argentina deserved this victory and is closed to their first semifinal, and why not ..final.
Hope now they will be accepted to join the HS tournament !
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Lets applaud the Argentinians (and the Georgians for that matter)
Ireland are nothing short of a disgrace. We deserved to be beaten by more and I applaud the pumas who´ve been wonderful all through the tournament. In the final analysis the IRFU fired Warren Gatland - insulting him by letting him go weeks before the natural end to his contract. He took a ragged team of losers and an even more ragged organisation and won 4 out of 5 six nations games (completing this achievement days before he was insulted as described). Gatland is an ex-All Black who knows how to win and how to listen to the experts he hires and empowers to work with him. So we insulted him by letting him go and bringing in an average coach with no pedigree and a background in Irish and North American Rugby. ÉOS works very hard and has a professional attitude but he lacks the winning instinct, brain power and ability to listen to those around him - apart from the fact he has no charisma. EOS is a superb politician - this talent is the reason the IRFU insulted Gatland and its also the reason he managed to get a 4 yr renewal on the eve of the world cup. Eddy, who for some reason they thought was a talented coach, was waving his green card under their noses. Now it will cost us a fortune to get rid of him. We never had a team to touch New Zealand but we had players that could compete at the highest level and perhaps even good enough to grace a final - certainly a semi. What a waste. I´ve been complaining about EOS right through the pseudo-good times and bad times - we won nothing. Absolutely nothing. A triple crown has no meaning anymore. Remember the IRFUs words - ´´we replaced Warren with Eddy to bring Ireland to the next level.´´ Despite having the best set of players we´ve ever had we never got to a higher level than Gatland´s last year. Look at what he achieved with Wasps. He took them from the bottom of the English premiership to 3 titles and a Heineken Cup. And the IRFU condemned him because they didn´t break the Edinburgh stranglehold and because of Lens - when the team was still developing. Ridiculous. The IRFU´s problem is it does not understand what it takes to win and hence it does not recognise a winner when it happens upon one. When we had the priveledge of having Kidney in the coaching team we lost him - why? because Eddy doesn´t tolerate people who refuse to tow the line - he´s a one man show with pedestrian plans and he should leave now. And this Leinster supported recognises that Kidney, unlike O´Sullivan is man of real pedigree. And Gatland is undoubtedly one of the most talented coaches in the world. We deserve the beatings we received and Georgia were unlucky not to completely rub our noses in it.
Whatever else happens EOS must go or Irish Rugby will suffer even more prolonged repercussions. We must not reward losers and we need to stop embracing the roll of the underdog. Only losers regularly play that roll.
Stephen (Dublin)
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The Irish these days sound more and more like the English in the late 90s - win and they're the best, lose and it's only because they played poorly - not due a lack of talent.
Your ratings support this misnoma. Any neutral would agree that, today, Argentina showed a good deal of class and a super gameplan, and that they could have beaten any team outside the top 4 with that performance - Ireland aren't in the top 4.
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How is it?. in country that gealic football is the most popular sport and fielding the ball is a primary skill that the irish players are out jumped every time (the first french try and again today). for me that is very embarrising.
And Murphys attempted garryowns (where he took a dive on the first one) were pethic, he never looked like he was attempting to compet for them.
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You are wrong on Murphy (worth 6 at least). O'Gara worth 1 at most. O'Gara is the reason EOS must go. EOS was blind to the fact that O'Gara has no form. Such a shame.
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You are wrong on Murphy (worth 6 at least). O'Gara worth 1 at most. O'Gara is the reason EOS must go. EOS was blind to the fact that O'Gara has no form. Such a shame.
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Folks;
I'm hearing you loud and clear and admit I may have been harsh on Geordan, and to give him a mark lower than everyone else wasn't fair. To say he was safe under the high ball though was not true - I've just checked my notes and he failed to claim at least three or four high balls. But he was trying to be creative, although I felt he frequently dithered before making a decision. I'll upgrade him to a 4, possibly a 5! And on reflection, a 4 for O'Gara might be more appropriate.
It was a sad sight to see him struggling with his kicking so much.
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3 is harsh for Geordan Murphy. this campaign is the has been the worst across any sport for an irish team. absolute disaster. ROG has had a nightmare. EOS wouldnt doesnt seem to know a tired stale side. and doesnt have the balls to change it either.
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like most comments I thought Murphy was ok and ROG pretty poor.
O'sullivan must be accountable for his teams performance and certainly should not lead the Lions, though quite who should is a difficult one - perhaps Ruddock is the best choice at the mo?
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i agree almost completely with your ratings
they seem fair enough
but which match were you watching to give murphy that rating??
he was arguably ireland's best player and justified his disappointment at not being included in the team so far.
he was solid under the high balls, especially considering how often the argentinians employed that tactic.
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paul o connell too please! i thpught he was really good! were u watching the same match? as for rog. he's been made the scape goat of the whole wc! leave him alone. he deserved at least that 5. his passing was good. kicking a bit below par but so was alot of others. o driscoll was v good. darcy has had a terrible world cup and likewise today and so be a 2.
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post 100 and 101 . thankes
I am one of thoes fans that travel 40 miles with two kids to find parking in Chicago and pay senata 60 dollars at the door, there is many moore like me.
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I really feel sorry for Ireland who really put up a spirited display tonight ; I reckon the men in green would have beaten England or Scotland who were lucky to be in much easier groups. Alas, it was Argentina, who proved the win vs France was no fluke...
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I hear D'Arcy has been playing this world cup but I haven't seen much of him. What has happened to the Ireland backs? They simply can't break the line, apart from the odd bit of magic from O'Driscoll. Justin Harrison made an interesting comment - when a team is winning the coach is almost irrelevant, its when they are struggling the true mettle of a coach is seen. EOS must take some responsibility for Ireland's dismal form, and players who seem to ahve lost any ability they once had.
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Blinkered EOS will not quit and will keep picking his pets for the 2008 six nations. This will be a futile attempt to prove his critics wrong.
Our result there will then be closer to a wooden spoon than a grand slam.
Please replace Hayes, Horan, Easterby,Leamy, O'Gara, Darcy, Dempsey & Horgan. B Carney too old.
If the IRFU do not fire him, then perhaps crowds of less than 40,000 at
Croke Park to see dismal Italy and Scotland will make them thnk again.
However, Wales are always worth watching.
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I hear Gareth Jenkins is looking for a new job...
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Any coach with any self respect would now fall on his sword after a RWC like that. We shall soon find out what sort of a person EOS is!
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Well, I agree with you on Murphy. I thought he was awful: indecisive, unreliable under the high ball and didn't chase his own kicks properly (he should watch where he runs not whine about obstruction). The rest weren't much better. Why can't home nations teams ruck?
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The only good thing about being a welsh rugby fan. at the moment is that as long as ireland, keep playing like this we will not get the wooden spoon. in the next 6 nation.our world cup was TERRIBLE, BUT YOU WERE AWFUL IN ALL THE GAMES !!!!
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1 The sums of money involved for buying out EOS's contract will be relatively small, and this should be the first step if the arrogant so-and-so won't resign
2 the IRFU committee men need to take responsibility for presiding over this wasted opportunity and realise that they are no longer part of Ireland's future
3 Despite the relatively poor showing , thanks to all the Irish players. They were below par, but such a small group of players cannot be expected to perform consistently at a high level for 10 years.
4 We are paying the price for having only three top level teams. This limits the exposure for Irish players at the top level. Hence there are no realistic options at many of the positions.
5 Contepomi has embarassed himself with his petty reactions to many of the incidents during the game. Perhaps his position in the Leinster set up should be re-evaluated.
6 The 91Èȱ¬ Nations have been eclipsed, and the situation is far graver than the supposed crisis which occured with the advent of professionalism
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Congratulations Argentina from Ireland.
You have been fantastic and totally deserve your QF as group winners and we, unfortunately, deseve to go home.
I have read some posts re lack of respect for your team. Every serious Irish fan knows how close our encounters have been over the last decade: we know, and always knew, how good you are.
Every team with the exception of the All Blacks will fear you. With a little luck you could reach the final.
Don't underestimate Scotland, we haven't seen the best of them yet either.
Buena Suerte!
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It's been a disaster - bit like the Battle of Kinsale -
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O'Gara was appalling, yet again at this tourny. Hernandez showed him up in almost every part of the game. However, the disgrace for me was BoD. Scored a great try and set the other one up, but the way he left the celebratory huddle after his try to give the Argies a serve was appalling. Have a bit of a word on the way past ok, but to actually push your own teammate out the way to do it is a bit over the top. And then in the interview to claim Ireland were the only team to try and play was also very ungracious, but sadly it's what we've come to expect from him. A truely worldclass player who has really let himself down by the way he lets his mouth get ahead of his brain in quite public situations.
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OK - BOD was fine - GM wasn't doing what he likes best I guess - - ROGs out of hand kicking was the worst by an Irish fly-half since..........the forwards generally haven't been up to it although N Best performs well and just looks bemused at the carnage he has to clear up - so generally ratings OK with your appended note. You should have a rating for the coach and use of substitutes maybe
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Point 84 - although I agree with your sentiments wrt EOS, need to correct you there - we´ve only one Grand Slam - in 1948. As long as Eddie O´Sullivan is there it will be impossible to win anything - we need to move fast and remove him and all those officials he has tucked away in his squeaky clean pocket - let him get his solicitor - even if he gets the full 1.2 million this is a fraction of the cost of keeping this hard working waster. He won´t be removed - not a chance - because the people who need to remove him have their fingerprints on the decision to renew him with a massive wage increase PRIOR to the world cup. And Eddie is a consumate politician who doesn´t take risks - he´s not going to step away from a job that gives him financial security. So unless the clamour increases greatly in volume we´ll be stuck with this decline. Please forget about analysing the player´s performances any further. They were outplayed by a better team. Rugby is, above all else, a team sport. The quality of the Irish players is not in doubt (cue Munster´s Heineken Cup (and Leinster´s performances to a lesser extent) and the fact they came close to winning the championship with an incredibly inadequate coach. A couple of people mentioned we being harsh. Absolutely not. This is an horrendous waste of talent - often overstated (we´ve never been as good as New Zealand and only periodically better than their southern neighbours). However, they are certainly very talented and we´ll be waiting a long time before we´ve the chance to see an Irish coach with a team like this one was at its disposal.
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#121 K Williams - sorry, no luck with Eddie falling on his sword, he doesn't own one, all he has is a rubber chicken.
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Eddie must take responsibility for the debacle of the past month. This team has not become a poor one overnight. The truth is Eddie lost the dressing room at half time in France last year after we were destroyed in the first half and Irish rugby has been in denial ever since. The granting of the new contract before the World cup will be viewed in hindsight as one of the great rugby management errors. We have seen at first hand with the Lions when the coach loses the respect of his players and especially when there is a them and us mentality in the camp. The Irish squad was fractured and ultimately flawed from the outset with not competition for places...look at the french today playing for their places next week. Our squad guys never had a look in...so what was the point having them there if they were never going to figure. We were a joke especially at the breakdown where we brought four number sixes no specialist seven or eight so our two centres spent the majority of this World cup at the bottom of rucks clearing out. We were too easy to figure out and we could not change the game when plan A if we ever had any one did not work. Couple that with a lack of leadership and we were goosed. ROG wasnt right mentally but we had no plausible alternative Paddy wallace is not an international class player. O Driscoll maybe should have started at ten today and give the Argies something to worry about. The likes of Gleeson, Jennings, Casey and Cullen leaders all...not to mention Bracken, Heaslip, Fitzgerald can feel hard done by. PS the taking of Denis Hickey off at the end when our World Cup was finished was the final fumble by a coach who hasnt a clue.....to treat a guy with upwards of 70 caps and top try scorer like that no wonder he has quit both the International anmd club scene...he like everyone else right now has had enough of the IRFU.
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mate, Geordan Murphy 3? did you watch the game? he was solid at the back, in defence, under the high ball, and his kicking was great. he deserved a 7
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EOS post match quotes. He still thinks its all about him. Its about Irish rugby and no intelligent and knowledgable fan of Irish Rugby has any appetite for his ´plans´. The scariest thing he said prior to this match was "I´ll have a plan".
"I'm totally committed to this job - I still have a contract to run and every intention of seeing it though," he said.
"I have the appetite for the job and I want to see it out. This has been a tough World Cup, no question about it.
"Things haven't gone to plan but that's no reason to walk away.
"I've never walked away from a challenge in my life and I don't intend to start now."
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Can anybody explain to me what is happening at the breakdown, and why the SH sides seem to have such dominance in this area? Our two tries were off first-phase ball (maybe not striclty speaking the first one, but more or less), and to be honest we never looked remotely threatening in open play. We got turned over all over the park, and never seemed to secure quick ball, whereas the Argentine ball looked quick and very safe. This has been a common theme for all the SH sides, while NH sides have struggled. Is this because of the manner of the refereeing in this area? The body positions assumed by the Argentines today did seem dodgy at times in that their shoulders were on the ground, formin a 'bridge' over the ball. Seems like the sort of thing that should have been cleared up before the RWC. Fair play to Arg though, they deserved the win.
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wen a team is playin well then the coach is largely autonomous,he doesnt have to do much because the team knows what they are doing.its wen a team plays badly that a good coach is needed to recify things and to get the best out of his players. eddie o'sullivan doesnt seem to be able to do that so he can not be called irelands best coach ever.he has just been lucky at getting a good group of players together.
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This is all very well but why are we looking at ratings for an Irish team no longer in the competition? Lets have some for Argentina, the team of the tournament.
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128
Of course.... should have said Triple Crowns. Got carried away probably by the emotion of the day.
I say also there is little point in all this bickering over a point here or a point there in the analysis. There's been too much analysis! The TEAM was crap and the coaching was crap. Solutions are whats needed - resignations, new coach, new start!
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Well done to Argentina. Tactics were spot on. EOS has proven to be clueless in his approach to the WC. To much basketball type coaching and rugby by numbers approach means we are too predictable. EOS doesnt look like going anywhere, and during post match interview looked like a man who knew his job was secure. Cant see him falling on his sword or the blazers getting rid of him. Look forward to four more years of mediocrity.
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I wouldn’t have gone so low with some of the ratings but in relative terms I think the ratings are mostly spot on. I stopped counting the number of times Murphy and D'Arcy were turned over in the tackle as it seemed to be every time they got into a contact situation. (O'Driscoll is one of the few who I thought played with any conviction.) In their defence they tried to play a game they are not currently familiar with, and that's why they lost by 15 points in the end. They seemed to play like they didn't have a real game plan and it was just a case of "give it a lash lads". If that was the case, then EOS needs to take full responsibility. If their plan was to run it at Argentina from the start, was ROG the outhalf to get it going? I don't think Wallace would have had the experience to do it either, but if EOS thought O'Gara could unleash a try-fest from the word go then that might go some way to explaining why we have been unable to deliver on the pitch for quite some time. (Bizarrely, it was Ireland's best performance in quite some time though, but that's like saying the last Girls Aloud single didn't want to make me scoop out my ear drums with a spoon.) The tournament wasn't lost tonight however, it was the appalling performances against Namibia and Georgia that did us in. EOS really should go now, but it won't happen. He'll have at least one more stuttering 6Nations and then resign. It's not totally his fault that he doesn't have a world class 22 to pick from, but it takes some doing to take a very useful team and turn them into one that should have lost to Georgia. Well done the opposition, but Ireland come away from another RWC with a lot of questions being asked, but few people in charge capable of answering them.
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I would like to congratulate irish side and people. You did a good game today. Dont be so negative you´ve shown today a brave team. I am argentinian and i wanted you and us in the quarterfinals, not france.
I hope next world cup we will not be at the same group so we can go trough together. I mean it. Excuse my english!!
Go IRLANDA! Go Argentina!
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I felt that The Irish team put in a reasonable effort today. They put themselves in an impossible position by the earlier pool results.Argentina just had to play the percentages and they are far too good to mess that up. I agree that selection policy has left EOS open to take a hit when his chosen few don't Fire as he calls it. As a coach myself I can see how he trusted his team to deliver and understand how there was no plan B if they didn't. We may go back home and regroup literally.
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EOS, i feel he shouldnt go. He picked the most experienced 15 which was neeeded for a game like this. Yes, O'Gara was a risk but who else is more experienced than him to play in such an important game? how many times he has pulled ireland out of holes? Yes he has played bad in the tournament but this might have motivated him to get his head sorted and to kick alot better but how was EOS supposed to see into the future. I stand by EOS's descisions.
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this was a disgrace.
probably the best team we weve had going into a world cup and the best we will for quite some time and what happened cant be explained.
one bad game is bad enough and the irish arent ones to end like this. just to think around 6 months ago in 6 nations we could be embarrasing teams like england.
we did not deserve to go through how ever much we wanted it. argentina by far the highest underestimated team in the tournament and good luck to them they deserve what they get!
though dissappointed glad we didnt go through imagine us playing like we have going into new zealand...
usually i would back us up saying that we would rise to the occasion but i was proven wrong in this world cup i defended them saying they will rise to the bigger guns but france and argentinas matches destroyed them.
the frustrating thing is that in the matches we had glimses of brilliance and what we can do but we made stupid silly mistakes which just canceled them out
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Post 125 point 5.
I disagree so contepomi reacted in a manner which was a bit over the top. So what.
what a breath of fresh air to see a team such as argentiana play with two great distributors and decision makers at 10 and 12.
Leinsters great performances are largely down to him and 12 and 13.
The IRFU should do all they can to keep him in Ireland till his legs give out. Remember Leinsters academy consists of nearly all the grand slam winning under 19's. For young player been in the same club can only be great for the development of young talent.
However fully agree with your point about 3 Provinces its about time the IRFU pumped money in to the West. Connacht have a great coach and some good players all efforts should be focused on getting them into the HC cup and above the worst of the Welsh and Scottish regions in the Magners League. Maybe players who don't get game time should be moved there for example maybe Kieran Lewis who is down the pecking order at munster since Tipoki arrived
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Argentina,
We played a very intelligent match. Hernandez kicked the ball every time he could forcing the Irish forwards to watch the game only. Our backs are quick and great defenders. Every time we kicked the ball Ireland went back at least 20m.
To end this.... Every match between Argentina and Ireland are the best one to watch...
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Bryn
Could you give us a percentage of the high balls murphy fielded i would imagine 3 or 4 misses out of 25-30 the ones he did spill were 50-50 with about 5 argentinians heading for him would be a pretty good return for any full back at international level ,as for the indecision he didnt have any other option no support time and again he was left isolated i think i saw leamy close once the wingers god knows where they where Murphy knew what was needed 4 trys thats why his game plan was to run ,to create thats why he was selected unfortunately the argentinian defence was superb .Well done Geordan great game .
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Bryn, it's good to see a fella who's big enough to put his hand up and admit that he may well have made a mistake.
Ye had a lot of us going there for a while.
I think I know what happened. Ya weren't sitting close to Eddie and you picked up his notes by accident?
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ara, it's only a game - and games need gracious losers too.
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Post #125 - why the attack on Contemponi? His reactions were no worse than BOD's?
He played his game with skill and passion. He is possibly one of the best backs playing in Ireland...maybe we could convince him to take out irish citizenship. Oh, but why would he leave a winning squad to play for EOS?
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O'Gara was absolutely pathetic, offered absolutely nothing and Paddy Wallace must be poorly thought of if he wasn't even considered to try and freshen up our approach.How could O'Sullivan not replace him? Could he not see that he was the worst player on the field? Obvious now that he fears dropping certain players. Darcy was in a deep coma for the whole tournament. Easy strategy for the Argentinians in kick the ball deep to our backs because they are not comfortable with ball in hand and have no natural footballers who know how to kick the ball.
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Is POC the most over-rated rugby player ever? He went awol in the World Cup just like he did for the lions. For every good game he has for Ireland he has at least 3 or 4 bad ones.
EOS once again showed what a tactical genius he is by taking off Wallace who was our best forward today by a country mile. Easterby, EOS's old favourite, on the otherhand was left on despite the fact that he did nothing all night. What a joke!
Get rid of EOS now.
Well done Argentina. By far the better team.
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What was it that BOD was so graphically saying to the Pumas (most probably Felipe Contemponi) after he scored his try. It certainly didn´t seem to reflect his crusade for proper and sportsmanlike conduct on the field after the over-rated ´spear-gate´ episode with Tana Umanga.
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O'Gara rated a 5? I must have watched a different game... I think 1 would be far too generous for his performance. It was embarrassing.
All you have to do is repeatedly hoof the ball to the nearest member of the opposition to get 5/10? International rugby is much easier than I thought!
Credit to Brian O'Driscoll though. That guy gave everything.
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Not that shocked at todays result. Turnovers and mistakes at crucial times let the Argentines off the hook gave them the belief and Ireland kept putting pressure on themselves. Topped with some fine pressure and intensity from Argentina and the result speaks for itself.
Argentina know their strengths and weakness and play to their strengths and limit the opportunities for teams to exploit their weaknesses. Whole team have a game plan that works and they stick to it.
I really didn't know anything about EOS when he took over but was really disappointed when Warren Gatland was let go as he had started to get Ireland playing rugby that could win against the big nations. Remember 2001 when they were leading NZ at halftime by playing great rugby. This was a glimpse of what he was working towards and it's a shame he didn't have the time EOS has had to develop a winning team.
Would be easy to stick the boot into EOS but nobody in the Irish set up wants to lose. But it will be hard for him to put in a vision and strategy know for next 4 years to be competitive in next WCup, that players and supporters will buy into.
Maybe time to look else where but I would suggest the IRB to take their time and do it well.
Just really feel sorry for the lads and all involved but life gones on.
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Argentina is getting better and better. Be carefull England.
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Living in Uruguay, i've seen Argentina develop over the last couple of years; good luck to them. England will still win mind.......i hope!!
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In any other country performances which fell so spectacularly short of expectation would result in the sacking of the coach. Irrespective of "fault" *which is hard to identify) accountability rests with the head coach and so O'Sullivan should go. As for the players, Murphy's dismal performance demonstrates EOS was correct to exclude him until now - his lack of courage was responsible for Argentina's second try. O'Gara, D'Arcy, Leamy and Wallace were deperately disappointing during the match and throughout the tournament. O'Connell deserves a higher rating than 5; himself and O'Driscoll were the only players to perform.
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Was about to write a scathing comment about your ratings vis Murphy and O'Gara but just saw you thankfully admitted your fallibility...unlike EOS. O'Gara excelled himself in error tonight - we would be better with 14 men if there is nobody better than him at no. 10. Murphy finally brought some welcome creativity to a stale and predictable team. I have wasted a lot of time and money this month going to the games in Bordeaux and Paris, and I am just relieved its all over.
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I am disappointed you gave in the ill-informed nonsense about Murphy by upgrading his rating - he was woeful. A ridiculously over-rated player - average pace, no strength, poor under the high ball. He missed the majority of the high balls and was ditchering and indecisive with the ball in hand. However, O'Gara and D'arcy were equally as bad.
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After this first round in the World Championship we already deserve to be part of the Biggest teams of Southern Hemisphere, 3 Nations Championship should become "4 Nations" from now.
We are clearly superior than most European teams......I just hope an Argentina - England in the final, "The Rose Team"!!!!!!!!!! come on, we can't lose against those "guys".lol
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As an Argentinean, after reading the comments, I am really impressed by the recognition and fair treatment the Pumas are getting in this site.... You have really won my respect!!!!
As for Ireland, it seems that it has been our destiny to face each other during the WC eliminations. In the previous world cup, it was Puma´s turn to go home after facing you guys...
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BOD should reconsider citizenship and become New Zealander. BOD to the ABs.
Ireland sucked today!
Arriba Pumas!
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What plan is O'Sullivan talking about, why is he not asked these questions by interviewers.
Why does he insist on playing O'Gara.
Everyone in Ireland wanted Neil Best to start, why is he the only man not to know this.
Brian Carney should have being playing, in the centre for D'arcy ,or instead of Hogan on the wing.
Get him to explain his decission macking to the puplic.
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Complacency and lack of competition within the squad seems to have been an issue.
While I know this is with the benefit of perfect hindsight, should we not have started off our pool games with a radically different team? with a view to allowing players to earn a place in the side for the big matches?
I can see the logic in trying to establish a coherent side from the outset, but this very side has been pretty much together for years and if they weren't coherent by now then maybe that's half the problem.
Perhaps Wallace and Reddan weren't ready for it, but why not give 'em a go and make ROG and Stringer work for their shirts in those early games?
Whether or not EOS is still in a job tomorrow I don't know, but if he has any integrity then he'll throw away today's team sheet and start with a blank one (yes, even 13).
Next Spring's six nations is on the horizon, maybe we need to accept a wooden spoon but take a few chances and give a few new caps? We're certainly not the only side in that position.
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Well, I think the irish team played its best. It was just that this time the Pumas are truly inspired. Just look at the second try - one mistake and there you go. Ireland should be proud of the way it played and acted in the field (ok, except for the O'Driscoll's pathetic ways).
Still, having a rating of the irish players *now* seems more of the same bs. Give these guys their well earned respect - their heart and plain hunger is letting you watch some of the best rugby in the RWC.
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liam ,ill-informed he missed the majority off high balls? I would think that would be simple mathematics were the majority would be the greater number ? In relation to the BOD Contemponi rubbish take a look at phillpe throughout the game and gus(pinchot) as the ref called him non stop sad BOD reacted nice to know he cares though .Gus has been at it all tournament must have played soccer .LOW LIE THE FIELDS .
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Is there a way we can get a league system into the six nations so that teams like Georgia,Romania and Portugal can be promoted to the top division with relegation to the team finishing at the bottom of the top league? Maybe 2 leagues of 5 to start with and of course ask Argentina to start in the top league with whoever finishes bottom and second from bottom of the top league to drop out in the first season and then 1 up and one down from there forward?
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Looking forward to an all Southern hemiphere semi-finals!!!!
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surely this is the end for eddie, and i pray to god that it's the end to the rumours of him taking the next lions tour. ireland have to go back to the drawing board and actually use more than a bare 15 players in each tournament. yes england won the world cup on the back of a tried and tested 1st XV, but they also had players coming in and out in the build up and the tournament. ireland need a rethink, say goodbye to all the average players in their team. 2 words to end on: shane jennings.
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For those that thought his rating was a bit low, you might be happy to hear that the Russian judge gave Murphy a 5.9!
Did anyone else scratch their head when ROG took the peno kick? It did nothing for Ireland's quest to get four tries and just gave the Angentine team a chance to get back deep into the Irish half. EOS/BOD should have knnown that penos were worth zero unless we had four tries under our belt.
Go Argentina!
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To those who comments above who seem to be pointing a finger at O'Driscoll and his reaction after his own try, have a look at the game again. Contemponi was, from the very first minute, trying to wind up the Irish back line (most of whom are his Leinster colleagues) with obviously little digs and patronising comments....and let's be fair to him, he succeeded! He even had a go at Leamy in the 2nd half too and was lucky he left the pitch intact physically. THIS is why o'Driscoll reacted the way he did. Having said all that I think it's time to move the captaincy on from O'Driscoll to possibly O'Connell or Easterby. I think BOD has contracted Beckham fever and I'm not so sure he has the respect of the whole team in his leadership qualities. He was of course still our best player by far last night but i think relieving him of the captaincy would free up his talents considerably. Time for new ideas and options.
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Include us in the six nations!
We all Pumas about to die, salute you!
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A few thoughts...
1. The ratings are irrelevant and the blog should really be looking at; where to next for Irish rugby!
2. BOD, definately the only player to come out of this with some degree of credibility. As for his reaction after scoring and his 'clash' with Contepomi, at least one of our players seemed to care enough to! No excuse for unwarranted gestures or backchat however, to single out an Irish player in a game involving Argentina is quite frankly insuting! Before the tournament I had expected the likes of; Leamy, O'Connell & O'Callaghan to really get at the Argentinians and ruffle a few feathers, sadly they were nowhere to be seen and BOD probably more out of frustration lost it. It was wrong and he shouldn´t have, however I can undersand his frsutrations! Could you imagine the likes of a; Duggan, Keane, McBride, Claw or Gallimh allowing that sort of undercurrent to prosper in a game?
3. The future. I would go for John Connolly as coach and love to see some of the following guys make it into the squad over 2008:
Jennings
Casey
Healy
Caldwell
Fitzpatrick
Heaslip
Ferris
Earls
Fitzgerald
B.Murphy
Let's start blooding new talent and pick things up with youth and enthusiasm!
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Dear oh dear, O'Gara was woeful, I'd give him two or three - botched passes, fumbles, missed touches, kicks straight to the Argentinian full back...
He would be dropped if we'd another number 10 with any experience.
Argentina are better at kicking and catching - clearly - but we continually played into their hands by kicking it long, they simply returned the favour, with superior technique, and so the pressure was mostly on us.
And this was a game that pre-match all the talk was about getting the phases going, keeping the ball...
I look forward only in the hope that serious squad development will bring some fresh faces and ideas to the line up for the six nations.
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This is the worst article and rating's i have read from bbc sport. Palmer did not watch the match, obviously, and his views on the irish players are completly un-educated. Geordan Murphy 3 !!!! Sort out your game Palmer. O'gara 5 ?!?!?! Awful
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I agree completely about the high quality and emotion in the matchs between Ireland-Argentina, but I think this was quite different.
(please, include and "I think" quote before each preposition)
...................................
About Ireland...
1) Ireland faced a huge mountain to climb before the game. The combination between regular points, and bonus point make the possibilities to classify almost 0. This situation must be very hard to handle from the starting of the match.
2) The major problem for Ireland was leave the bonus point aganinst de (a priori) weak teams. This match was the consecuence of previous failures.
3) Ireland face the best France, a team hurt by losing in the debut and needed to stay in the world cup)
4) Ireland has a lot of incredible players but the problems are the tactics and the "William Wallace's spirit". Tackling in general is awesome. Pressuring too...But a little bunch of ofensive ideas. The passion is not enough to win a match, the power is not enough too. I think the team need fresh ideas coming from outside of the "Island". The failure of Wales, Ireland and the dangerous last game for Scotland must be useful to ilustrate my point.
........................
About Argentina(my team)
1) The tactics for this match was a permanet counter-attack. Ireland faced a dilema: maintain a permanent attack taking a risk over their defense or to be equilibrated and not reach the quantity of tries. The recipe of the Pumas were simple. An extraordinary preassure all over the field (the Agulla's try was a product of this actitude) and a strong respect for the tactics.
2) Today the pack was incredible. The dynamic, the defense commitment and a very smart guide from Pichot were the key. Hernandez plays and awesome match using the kick in a smart way, receiving like a fullback (he use to cover this position sometimes), opening fast attacks and putting a lot of presure over Murphy using long kicks. We have to note the first two drops using de right leg and the last drop using the left leg.
3) Argentina use the best tactics available and for that reason won. From my point of view does not exist unfair tactics. Just exists correct and incorrects tactics.
4) We are very proud of our team, we know will be very difficult to reach every next instance but we feel the team is growing and we can face the top five teams of the world in a balanced level. In rugby is very difficult to give a hit and eliminate New Zealand or South Africa but, we have the right to trust in our team.
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Argentina to join the 6 nations!
We need your help, Ireland!!
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I think most people agree Argentina can play (and currently raise the level) in the Six Nations and compete in the Tri-nations.
I don't think they're being ignored as people seem to believe - they just happen to live in South America, which is a continent some distance from Europe.
The Six Nations has its own sense of tradition and perhaps it should stay as it is. Just an opinion.
So how about another competition... As teams seem to be found of Autumn tests on an annual basis perhaps some
smaller competition (maybe bi-annual) could be based around this with Argentina, and others (though 8 teams would prob. be enough).
Not sure how it would work exactly - (two groups of four?) but might be a way of including Argentina more (so we can figure out how to beat them!) while perhaps Argentina can also work at promoting rugby in its own part of the world - Argentina surely could also be playing with the North American teams and perhaps Japan and perhaps on a bi-annual basis the Americas-teams can invite 6N teams (or whoever) to join in a competition on that side of the Atlantic...
Don't know how realistic these ideas are but I believe the Six Nations will prob. not expand anytime soon so people need to "think out of the box" a wee bit methinks.
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I have to say that Ireland's fans are very classy in defeat.
It was a tough game for Ireland, they had to deal with two opponents. Los Pumas, and the need to score four tries. Obviously the latter forced them into tactics that made it more difficult to come up with a win.
Ireland had a disappointing WC, but I feel they played a strong game today, under difficult circumstances. I think the ratings are a bit harsh.
They just ran into a team that is confident, talented, and disciplined, as France also found out. We are proud of our Pumas!
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Adios EOS! Por favor! Are we back to the bad auld days of 'jobs for the boys' in the IRFU? Remember what we accomplished then? Exactly what we did last night...nothing.
We are constantly told by pundits that we have the best team in decades, didn't look like EOS or many of the lads believed that in this tournament. With our rating at the start of the competition we should have been hungrily eyeing the trophy and now?
EOS has given us a couple of Triples when we wanted 6 nations and now we pay the price for getting ecstatic about them. Triple Crown and 6 nations are a joke compared to the Tri Nations. Southern teams are redefining rugby while we slap each other on the back up here and pretend they aren't there. Joke must be over because I didnt hear too much Irish laughter last night.
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Hi there Bryn
Your ratings were too generous, one word for me sums up the Irish performance "Clueless".
And on EOS, here is a quote from a sports commentator on NZ radio just after the game.
"EOS couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag" and in my opinion the reporter is 100% correct.
My last comment is on Murphy's performance any this is just typical of the whole team's performance.
"Murphy was useless under the high ball, indecisive with ball in hand and clueless in all other aspects of the game".
Do I need to say more
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No anthem, no flag, no pride... what more can u expect!
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Solution to mystery is this. Why was there no fight and leadership?
BOD's comments that players are to blame is actually spot on. It's BOD himself. EOS cannot do anything without his OK. He IS a great player but there is a smugness to him. And this has spread through the team, making them soft. They have been floating on the illusion that the Georgias and Namibias must lie dowm and thank the Leinster/Ireland fancy Dans for gracing them with a drubbing. Necessity now is to take the captaincy off him (let him go throw the toys out of the pram and off to France) and find an effective leadership. BOD was accurate and honest in a sense in saying that the players must take responsibility. It's been seen time and again in all sports that 'talented' teams underperform unless 'lead' or managed properly.
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Twelve months ago Ireland were touted as the only credible challenge to the dominance of the Southern Hemisphere from the North.
The fact this has come to nothing smacks of problems behind the scenes. On the pitch they still some of the most talented players in the game man for man. But there has been something lacking for too long. Have they believed their own hype and choked on it?
Lets not dwell on the fall of Ireland and in doing so ignore that Argentina have shaken up the world order a little and with continued improvement will fall just behind New Zealand/Australia/South Africa but ahead of anything from the North!
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I think you've been hard on Murphy - but the claims that he was repeatedly impeded when following up his kicks are naive - the Pumas were entitled to stand their ground and Murphy got into the habit of running into them/bouncing off them in the hope of "winning" a penalty. Fortunately the ref was not buying it. O'Driscoll should shut his mouth and concentrate on playing as brilliantly as he can.
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Again Bryn mis reads the game. Gara was poor, a 3 max, Murphy was pretty decent consider the amount of ball that was knocked down his neck and the fact that his had no run until now. Reddan was as good as can be expected behind a poor pack.
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It's grim up north!
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Spot-on Bryn re your G.Murphy rating. He took the wrong option too many times in the second half and was dispossessed in the subsequent rucks. Those of you who rate him better should look at the highlights. Furthermore the Argentinian no8 deserved the man of the match for the turnovers he generated. Ultimately the Irish pack was too old, too slow and individuals too self centered. This was not a rugby team rather a collection of hairstyles and egos.
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I blame the manager.
Lot's of unsupported solo runs = No strategy.
The same old names, despite poor perfomances, shows bias rather than judgment.
OGara was dreadful. He's always been predictable, but when he kicked well that made up for his lack of imagination. Why use an outhalf who can't kick or create?
The much more versatile Humphreys' career was cut short to give O'Gara 'valuable experience'.
So why no 'blooding' of new players on this team in the last two years?
Simple, the new prospects aren't from Munster or Leinster! The guys with power choose their own.
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I am a Wales fan. Ireland have been a huge disappointment but one of the saddest things is how O'Driscoll now spends so much time verbally abusing his own team members as well as the opposition. This must stop!
Ireland created nothing. They are ranked higher than Wales, but at least Wales are always creative in their play with flashes of scintillating play (not enough, unfortunately). I also don't know what happened to the Irish pack - can anybody tell me? The Argies are a good pack but not as good as Ireland made them look.
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Caupolican note # 141
" I am argentinian and i wanted you and us in the quarterfinals, not france"
Are you also half Irish ? Funny you're turning France down. personal grief ? Argentine team spirit not withstanding, 70% of your players play in the frenh league and don't tell me their rugby style haven't shaped yours. If you can't show gratitude, at least show some acknowledgement. That said, great team and deserved victories !
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No-one in Ireland would question that the squad selected for the RWC are the best available, nor can the money, time and resources made available for the team be criticised. Therefore we must look at how the players are coached. In this regard EOS has shown a total failure of imagination, flair or an ability to suprise an opposition. Ireland are the most predictable team in world rugby and when you add to this O'Sullivans blind and often misplaced faith in players who have served well in the past the results in the RWC are not as suprising as some would have you believe. EOS has refused to try anything other than O'Gara who has been miserable for the best part of a year and was responsible for about half of the Argies points through his uncanny ability to kick the ball to their best players, John Hayes looks slow and underpowered at world level while the constant overlooking of Boss at scrum half and Murphy at full back is damming proof of the coaches fear of anything new and unpredictable.
Ireland have the resources we now need a new coach, new ideas and a new direction for our rugby.
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It's time Ireland had a clearout. O'Gara is simply not up to the task, and as for his replacement Paddy Wallace, he is not even close to the level required. He would look out of place in an under 16's match. O'Driscoll is the only player worthy of any praise. It's unfortunate for him he wasn't born in New Zealand. He would then have the team around him he deserves. Why did Murphy get so little pitch time? He can change a game with a moment of brilliance. Time for new management and a new crop of players.
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I have to admit I can't understand the Irish attitude that if the players don't perform it is the coaches fault...PATHETIC...
Lets look at the facts objectively:
We have effectively 3 teams to pick from so we have a very limited base to pick from...
In front row -
Apart from Hayes/Horan who else do we have??? Young/Best/Bracken haven't shown at ML/HC/International level that they are any better at all....How can anyone say that it is EOS's fault that he has brought through no new props when they aren't being brought through in the provinces...
Flannery/Best/Sheahan are adequate hookers but Flannery missed a lot of time with injury and Best then dislocated his thumb....How could EOS be blamed for that???? Where are the up and coming players in the provinces???
2nd rows - Everyone before the RWC would have said that POC/DOC/MOK were our best choices with Quinlan being a good option as a backrower also.....Now POC/DOC have been poor for the last 6 months and the only possible option was that MOK should have started for DOC...
Backrow - Easterby, Wallace, Leamy were our best choice with Best, Ferris as the replacement options - Ok the big mistake here was taking Ferris (an absolutely crazy decision ahead of Heaslip)...For all those claiming Jennings should have been picked (HE WAS INJURED) and Gleeson has been very poor last season for Leinster (and I am a Leinster fan) and JOC is barely back from injury...If Best had played it would have limited our lineout which we needed, Ferris/Best have proven they can't play at 7 at international level and Leamy was poor (where the missing Heaslip was missed)...
S/H - Stringer was poor and deserved to be replaced by Reddan (Boss is an physical impact player for last 15 mins which Stringer isn't)
O/H - ROG was seriously poor but unfortunately we had no other options - Wallace couldn't even get a game at Ulster while Humphries was fit (how is it EOS's fault that this happened)??? And could you imagine if ROG had walked out and said he wouldn't take part unless being played like Humphries did??? What other options are there??? Staunton is useless and Ian Humphries isn't much better...
Centres - Darcy/BOD everyone believed they were the best going so no problem there...who else is there to put at 12?? Trimble/Horgan??? No chance...
Wings - Horgan, Hickie are our 2 best wingers, Trimble just isn't good enough...admit Carney should have got his chance as his physical presence would have been of use so that is another mistake of EOS's...
Full back - Murphy/Dempsey would have been the 2 picks beforehand...Dempsey played really well but the call was for Murphy who played poorly in my opinion...He missed some high balls, was hesitant in attack and got turned over in contact nearly everytime...
With regards to the team being picked we were unfortunate in our group having the 4th/5th best teams in the world in our group (we were ranked 6th)...we were in a position where we had to win 2 games with bonus points and as high a points difference as possible before having to play France/Argentina consecutively....He had to play his best team in the first game and unfortunately htey played poorly so it was right to give them another chance before the France game
With regards to taking Hickie off I thought it was a great gesture to give him a standing ovation on his own to show how much he was appreciated...
If our players are as good as everyone thinks how come -
1 - Munster have been poor in the ML, were poor in the HC last year, beaten badly at home by Leicster and destroyed by Llanelli...
2 - Leinster were the same
3 - Ulster have been embarassing in the HC for the last 4/5 years
and this is in club competition only!!!!
I think we have been fooling ourselves that because they are our best generation of players it means that other countries have poor players....Argentina have their best ever set of players all playing for hte likes of Stade Francais and that standard, NZ are nearly unbeatable, SA are extremely strong, Aus are strong and the French have a level of depth an awful lot stronger than us...is would we expect Munster/Leinster/Ulster each to win away to Stade/Biarritz/Toulouse/Clermont Auvergne etc??? No...
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First of all I am from Argentina, and what I have learned in the past from this FANTASTIC game called Rugby, is respect, friendship and fair play.
I really appreciate much of the comments about Argentina, I watched the match at an Irish Pub in Budapest, and everyone there was telling me: " COM'ON buys, go for the cup now ". I felt myself proud. This team has been pleaying not only against other teams, have been playing against our national rugby board, against the IRB and their Pool of death for the last 3 world cups. They have made this Argentina vs Ireland a kind of Derby, allways last match on first round. I love Irish people, good fellows !
But this is nothing for us if the IRB do not understand that TIER 1 teams are in my opinion not up to date. That we really need an yearly competition to improve even more. Argentina only plays IRB windows test matches and South American tours, that with all my respect to other S.A teams, they play on diferent level.
IRB, PLEASE help us to get better.
Sorry for my poor english spelling in advancce.
Regards to everyone, and keep rugby rules going: respect, friendship and fair play !
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5 for O'Gara is way way too generous. He was dreadful, as he has been throughout the tournament. The perfect symbol in fact for an Irish team who've been collectively living round at Brian's place on Easy Street - over-feted, past their best, with their big moment missed with the failed slam last year. Clear out time and how. Starting at the top.
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In reference to post #163 about BOD becoming a NZ citizen & should join the AB's??? I really don't think they like him over there cause of his whinging "sooky" baby status as referred to by Tana Umaga. So that is definitely out of the question.
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I find it increasingly difficult to review any of Bryn palmers comments, as justifiable or even remotely accurate."the team needed more from him" seems to be the only resolute point mr. palmer has actually gotten right. eoin reddans display (bar 1 bad pass out of dozens) was exactly what we needed, a genuine classy player to come in & do an effective3 job, which is exactly what he did. It's not his fault the over-relied on o'gara was a complete disappointment in all areas of his game. Hickeys' old&tired bones showed all too much while horgan may well have been injured for the entirety of the WC, for all the good he did.the misfiring pack werent juggled around enough&despite a decent showwing from o callaghan&wallace, with a more inspired o connell to fire them up, the likes of marcus horan couldnt catch a ball to save his life. a poor outing from a side with so much promise in the background. where was the likes of gleeson when we needed him?oh yeah, at home along with a handful of others who should have been in paris from the outset. poor form eddie, all round.
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What game were you looking at! Geordan Murphy was our best player.
Eddie O'Sullivan must be replaced immediately. One of is greatest flaws was his obsession with selecting Irish- based players, irrespective of ability, and his obvious hatred of players at English based clubs.
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Ronan O'Gara has to be one of the world cups biggest flops! how many kicks to touch did he miss when the argentinian back 3 wer waiting to counter! It was a dismal display! Get paddy wallace on, and get him ready for 2011! Ronan O'Gara is past it! that rating is totally up the left
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I would just like to say well done Argentina. They murdered us yesterday. They can get to the final and have the physicality to casue the blacks problems. As for us, well we know we underperformed and we need to ask in a clinical but processed manner-why? I think EOS should stay on but someof his coaching staff need to be replaced. As for the players-well we need to start rebuilding asap. We have some very talented players coming thru. Also, players like Bob Casey, Shane Jennings and Jaime Heislip need to be brought thru. We need a new centre (Darcy is finished)and a new full back. Luke Fitzgerald anyone? Oh yeah, and a new front row. Maybe Santa will bring us one for christmas because I cant see where else we're going to get one..
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bit harsh on Georgan Murphy I think, though its worth pointing out to the people who bad mouth dempsey that he never ever drops a ball, is clearly a better tackler and scores more tries.
O'Driscoll played very well, put in so many tackles and was always trying to make breaks. I actually thought reddan played well too and at least tried to make things happen.
D'arcy again was a huge disappointment, just dont know what has happened with him and O'Gara was awful.
Fact is for a lot of it we made Argentina look better than they actually are. They are pretty one dimensional and once they play Australia, South Africa or All Blacks they will be sent packing. Good forwards but their backs are not that impressive. Still they deserved to win. They are very good defensively and have a lot of heart but very little creativity.
Also all the blaming of O'Sullivan, yes he made some mistakes but the players on the pitch still need to perform and they quite simply did'nt. There is only so much a coach can do but if you are put on the pitch you are put on, you try and play to the best of your ability and the team quite simply didnt do that.
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The whole anti-Ulster biase of this Irish set up is now coming home to roost if you ask me? Neil Best should be walking into this team. Paddy Wallace will never take over from ROG because he doesn’t get enough game time. When they play Trimble then they play him out of position.
Part of me was delighted they lost because the whole set up needs changing drastically. Ireland is made up of 4 Provinces not 2 !
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Please, no more calls for EOS to resign. Ireland have played sh**e, sure, but we can still get back up there. Having witnessed the shamble that is Welsh rugby for several years now (I live here), the worst thing we can do is get rid of EOS just yet. He's doing the best he can. I've seen coach after coach unceremoniously sacked here in Wales, and that doesn't work either.....
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I think the six nations tournament now needs Argentina, otherwise the value and prestige associated with winning the six nations is clearly diminished.
With the likelihood that no six nations team will make the semis, how would you feel in the unlikely event that Ireland won next years six nations? Would you feel
a. brilliant - we can now go and take on the world
or
b. that's nice, but the team probably still wouldn't make a world cup semi!
No six nations team including France has looked anything but ordinary. I am off to Cardiff this weekend to now support france (as I hope many irish fans will now do!) but I don,t give them much of a chance. The six nations tournament needs a new dynamic. We have all got far too comfortable. Coming back from the last world cup when England had won was great for the six nations - we had a chance to go out and play (and beat!) the current world champions. What have we got now?
I think the only reason Argentina have not been invited into the six nations is commercial - i.e. the fear of half empty stadiums and the lack of a home venue.
The rise of Argentina as a world power in rugby has surely countered this argument. In fact without the extra dimension that Argentina would add, the six nations would clearly be a second tier tournament.
Also regarding the BOD / Contemponi discussion - anyone who plays team sport knows that the most intense rivalry is often between team mates who meet in a competitive environment.
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Agree with ratings, except for O'Connell who played well except for that one knock on in the line out. Not as exceptional as is his norm, but 7/10.
Brian O Driscoll 8-9/10. Was excellent in a team that was poor, real sign of a good player.
Best to luck to Argentina, well deserved. Go Pumas.
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Highly inaccurate marks for the team there.
Murphy a 3?? come on, he proved yesterday that it was a mistake not to use him in this WC. did well under the high balls, took his try well. double it up to 6 then its more accurate.
ROG 2 imo, we watched in four games of rugby how a player can implode before your very eyes..sad.
Ah good old Irish sport, passionate followers of mediocrity
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Murphy 3, O'Gara 5! You must have been queueing at the bar for most of the match because you certainly didn't see the game.
Murphy and O'Dricoll (despite being a spoiled brat) were Ireland's best players. Reddan looked promising for the future, Horgan did nothing, and D'arcy will be OK once he gets started - ooops too late.
Some players seemed very slow to support Murphy going forward, maybe the big problem is off the field. Sounds just like Wales.
And Scotland should be ashamed of themselves too - the most negative display I have ever seen.
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I have been telling people for years, ROG is a chocker. He cant play on the gain line. He is used to playing behind a Munster pack going forward, and sits back in the pocket waiting to kick. How can you bring BOD, D'arcy into a game doing that? He was on the gain line twice yesterday and Ireland scored. The man simply does not have the swingers.
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Murphy 3, O'Gara 5! You must have been queueing at the bar for most of the match because you certainly didn't see the game.
Murphy and O'Dricoll (despite being a spoiled brat) were Ireland's best players. Reddan looked promising for the future, Horgan did nothing, and D'arcy will be OK once he gets started - ooops too late.
Some players seemed very slow to support Murphy going forward, maybe the big problem is off the field. Sounds just like Wales.
And Scotland should be ashamed of themselves too - the most negative display I have ever seen.
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Palmer is useless, it's the second time in little over a week he has been way off the mark... To give Murphy 3 when ROG gets a 5 is just plain stupid... stupid, stupid, stupid, maybe even moronic
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"I've seen coach after coach unceremoniously sacked here in Wales, and that doesn't work either....."
Neither does leaving one in who's stagnating, and has been for quite some time.
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Ok, Well done to Argentina, they deserved to win and played the better game.
But I hope they get beaten by Scotland (highly unlikely though) as I thought they were one of the dirtiest cheeting, sneeky bunch of players I have seen in this world cup.
Rugby is a physical game, so if you have a grudge against someone or just want to vent some anger you have plenty of chance to do that fair and square in the tackle.
I was sorry to see Murphy taken out it so many times when he tried to kick and chase. The Argentine players deliberately obstructed him on every possible occasion.
I also hated to see so many of them drop like flies with "cramp" and require medical attention at key moments of the game. Then there was their general attitude, they seemed to be trying hard to provoke the Irish players into a punch up (Contempomi for one).
Soccor is riddeled with that kind of carry on and I would hate to see that kind of cynical lack of sportsmanship creep into rugby.
With that said, Argentina did play the better rugby, deserved to win and will go far in this world cup. Its just a pity they can't do it in a more sportsmanship like way.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
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I agree Murphys rating is harsh. He should have been given a chance against Namibia & Georgia it would have given him a lot more confidence for yesterday. The way he was forced to play was down to earlier results.
Good luck Argentina.
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murphy's rating is spot on. both he and ogara deserve 3's at best, though ogara was worse. all the pro-murphy comments here are nonsense. he must have the best PR team in world sport, he is a defensive liability and vastly over-rated in attack- if murphy had the necessary under-carriage to defend at 15 then pick him every time, but he doesnt- his under 21 coach once (privately) described him as "porous".
granted there wasnt much on but he was painful coming forward, seems to have 3 options- jog towards the chasers and put the ball into orbit with no intention of re-claiming it/jog slowly and step into contact, losing the ball in the process/jog slowly and throw one of his "mercurial" passes to put a team mate under pressure. he was like a footballer diving everytime he chased a kick when he was really only impeded once in the game. and watch the game again, he was turned over repeatedly. for a player who offers only flashes of admittedly great skill, people seem to quickly forget the ibanez miss, the flailing at conrad smith in the 3rd lions test '05, the buying of a dummy that chabal never sold against sale last season, trawl his irish career and you'll find plenty more comedic displays of defensive inability/cowardice. we can just be thankful we have been spared the embarassment of a tuqiri or a mortlock breaking the irish line with geordy at 15- look at thomas'tackle against fiji, what wouldve happened if murphy had been at 15? 7 points for fiji. no side can afford a "magician" at the back who cant tackle. the odd flick pass in return isnt enough. give latham or cullen the ball murphy had yesterday and they'd carve the argentinians at least once. 3 is fair.
on another note, luke fitzgerald should have gone and will emerge in the 6 nations in one of the back 3 slots. ogara needs to vanish for 6mths (who replaces him is a little bit of a problem though) and ferris or best need to appear somewhere in the backrow. and why not give carney a crack? especially with horgan struggling so badly. at the end of the day the spine (lineout, 8 and 10) didnt function throughout the tournament and pretty much everyone else struggled thereafter.
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Bryan Palmer what game were you watching? apart from one good pass, that was one of the worst fly-half performances i have ever had the misfortune to watch in international rugby! o'Gara was woeful at best, - total inability, to find touch, kicking down the argentine throats all day, chose the wrong option several times,a missed tackle, a knoick on, a missed conversion? how can u give him 5? 1 at best-what a diabolical performance!thats the worst performance i've seen in rugby without the player being subbed off. 5 for 0'Driscoll, 2 for D'Arcy , 5 for 0'Connell.
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Disgraceful rating on Murphy. He was one of our better players on a miserable afternoon.
Fair play to the Argies though, they've got a lot of quality and fully deserved to top the group.
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To all the Argentinian posters - Well done on a fantastic game, a great team, and good luck in your semi against SA. I will be cheering you on further, and hope you get into the 6N (which anyone here who recognises my posts will note I've been saying for years)
To all those who say ROG is our only choice as Wallace has no experience - where do you think he will get international experience?
Our team played dreadfully, but the coach has to take some responsibilty for not changing the team, game plan, using the bench... Some people have pointed out the debacle in Wales' coaching - I agree that getting rid of someone too early is foolish. But this isn't too early.
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I thought Murphy was one of the best irish players alomg with o'driscoll!O gara was terrible,along with the loose forwards,leamy made absolutely no impact,he should be dropped along with marcus horan who is constantly making bad decisons and dropping a lot of ball!Horgan was terrible as well,only saw him once in the game,i agree though that murphy at times looked like he didnt know what to do when he had ball in hand.
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The thing to recognise is that Argentina are as good as France at the moment.
And they had the advantage of only needing to keep it close on the scoreboard to qualify (thus the drop goals).
The Irish had too much to do in this one game to be able to do it.
The effort in this game was there, but qualifying went when there was no bonus point agianst Georgia (in winning) or France (in losing). Ireland may have won against Argentina if they only had to win the game. And given Argentina are good that means the effort in this game was Ireland's best of the tournament.
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The only kicks Murphy missed were ones where he was taken out in the air. He took his try well and was always trying things in attack. He merits at least a 6. O'Gara was the one who had a nightmare and you've given him a very generous 5.
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I'd like to know your rankings of the Pumas.
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The taste of sour grapes here is a bitter one and typifies the arrogance of the home nations who seem to think they have some sort of divine right to progress beyond teams only they regard as inferior. Let's look at the evidence. Argentina scored as many tries, three more drop goals, and spent more time in the Ireland 22. They also won by 15 points. And they started the tournament ranked fourth in the world so they were expected to progress to the semi-finals, and may yet. On paper Ireland weren't good enough. On grass Ireland weren't good enough.
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IrishTel, ..mmmm green is not just the colour of Irelands rugby jersey then.
Ashamed of ourselves? Why, casue we are in the QF and youe home licking your wounds? If I remember correctly it's Arg 2 - 0 Irl.
If Ireland had spent less time looking back at their 'pretty' reputation in the 6N and more time looking forward at where they were going maybe they would not have run into the brick wall.
Afterall, it's not like you don't have the talent, but you gave none of the teams in your pool any respect.
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It is time for a full clear out and preperation for four years time needs to begin immediately.
Cue, number one the swift sacking of Eddie and his coaching staff. I have nothing but respect for the man but as he would say himself it is all about setting goals and achieveing them. No six nations - Failure. No world cup - Failure. Its time for a new regime to come in and freshin up a stale and tired set up and to bring new skills and confidence to the Irish side.
Number two. Player clear out. We have four years to prepare a side for the next World cup. The current side is never going to win the six nations so a lean couple of years might be necessary to find the new talent that we need. The following need to go.
Marcus Horan - Absolute shambles in this world cup displaying no skill sets whatsoever. A man that can't catch a rugby ball on repeated occasions should not be playing international rugby regardless of what else he may or may not bring to the table
John Hayes - Won't be around for next world cup.
David Wallace - Won't be around for next World cup
Easterby - Wont be around for the next world cup
Dempsey - Wont be around for next world cup
As well as the above I believe Darcy and Ronan O' Gara should be put on the bench as back ups for the entire next six nations along with some other prima donnas.
What will all this lead to?
At the very least it will blood some of the younger talent in the country who should display a hunger and desire to achieve. It will give them that initial experiance of test rugby in a pressurised athmosphere.
It will undoubtly lead to some defeats next year and the year after but by year 3 we will hopefully be beginning to find some coherancy and may just have unearthed some new raw world class talent.
With some competeition for places in a couple of years the likes of darcy and O'Gara may well perform to a high standard when coming off the bench knowingly fighting for their place.
Brian O'Driscol is still our best player by far so I would still have him nunmber one on any team we put out but any new management should immediately appoint a new captain.
I don't believe he has the personality to carry it off.
Its been a deflating and disappointing few days.
Time to make sure we don't have to go through it in four years time.
Hopefully the IRFU will get the finger out and make it happen.
Time to goal set and actually achieve!!
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I must say i agree with the comment about argentia being cheaters,and on a number of occasions you could hear the irish players complaining about the argentina players being off their feet in the rucks.
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O'Gara factor vital. He was clearly not right (rating 2) and should have been dropped for his own sake and team's. However its not all down to him. A lot of other people didn't perform.
Ultimately the buck must stop with the coach. He picks the panel, the team on the day, the tactics and determines the preparation in advance. All of this went completely wrong.
Writing was on the wall before the competition started.
Performance in warm up matches was the same as in the tournament itself and should have set alarm bells ringing. Forwards outmuscled by Argentina Italy and Scotland (makes you wonder at the quality of their preparation) and backs looking like they never met before.
Decision to award EOS a new contract before the tournament ludicrous. We are now stuck with a coach who has masterminded a complete shambles (which with any justice would have included a defeat to Georgia). This is on the back of playing a leading role in the Lions triumphant tour of New Zealand.
IRFU owes it to the players who are being denied any chance to play for their country to make a change.
Time for Eddie to go. His luck (an exceptional group of players delivered as working units - Leinster Backs and Munster forwards ) has run out. There should be a large and quick pay off and thanks for his efforts.
Replacement should be from Southern Hemisphere where the thinking is light years ahead.
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very harsh on murphy and vey generous on o gara. what is it with everyone against murphy he played much better than the woeful o gara whos tactical kicking was awful. murphy scored a try and was solid all night.
murphy- 5
o gara- 2 only high point was his good pass to brian
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#211-as a Scot, I'm thoroughly ashamed that we're in the quarter finals
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I agree with paddyabroad EOS has failed all we have to show is a few meaningless triple crowns when they should have been 6 nation championships and world cup semis
i have a dread we are going back to year after year of wooden spoons and thrashings in paris and twickenham
i struggle to give any of the ireland players any more than 4 even with argentina as good as they were.
Scotland will do better at least their players will front up and challenge at the tackle !!!!
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214 Dirty Flanker - yes, I think you may be. Except for the comment about soccer, obviously.
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disagree with ratings for o'callaghan(a passenger through the whole campaign) an'gara was at best a 2 and murphy was a 6 along with o'connell.
Below are my ratings
murphy 6
horgan 3
drico 7
darce 5
hickie 5
ogara 2
reddan 4
horan 2
flannery 4
hayes 2(nearly died when he had to take a pass from drico...this guy is comp over-rated, un fit and pl pl retire for the sake of ireland)
o'callaghan 3
o'connell 6
easterby 4
leamy 2
wallace 6
Yey again 7 munster forwards blown away by argentina pack....if we had lost by ten points with 2 munster forwards we would get the usual shite that we would have beaten them up front if the munster pack was picked...it was and they are totally over-rated and way past their sell-by date....196 is for the birds o'suillivan has been appalling and his time is up....guys like him have no honour...rhere part of the modern celtic tiger..arrogant up munster clanif he was honourable he would resign and tear his own contract up...he has totally lost the players and we need a non-irish top class coach who will give youth its chance and plan for 2011 not winning mickey mouse friendlies.
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I believe that Ireland are a good rugby team and after the world cup should merit at least a place in the world's top 30 rugby nations!.
It was amazing to see Ireland get within 15 points of Argentina. The south American's were generous in their reticence to totally flatten Ireland, EOS is a wonderful manager and any place above the bottom spot in the group is a great achievement.
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Ridiculous figure for Murphy - the Argentinians having worked out that he was going to be one of only a few threats,clearly planned to take him out at the kick and chase ( do linesmen still function at this World Cup ?) and in the second half their back row hunted him more successfully than his own ( who were not really at the party) - why was Best not on from the start? or at least with 30minutes left - who devised the tactics to keep one of the best attackers (Horgan) completely out of the game - should he have come into centre in the second half? with GDA out of sorts - who kept ROG on when it was clear he was having 'one of those days' after miss timing his first 5 kicks - he never plays well when that part of his game is off
Luckily the perpertrator of most of the clear thinking and unified approach behind the whole campaign only has 4 years left on his contract and as he will obviously be loathe to blood any new players before 2011 things are looking up for 2015!
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One other point to mention actually despite Argentina deserving to win, how annoying is that scrum half pichot. Does he ever stop complaining to the ref???? I actually at one point heard the referee say sorry green ball and then explaining his decision
I am so sick of scrum halfs, particularly pichot getting involved and telling the referees what to do. I lost count of the times pichot was giving out for no apparent reason to the referee. Why should the ref have to respond to this verbal nonsense. The ref should tell him to shut up or give him a yellow card if he keeps trying to interfere.
Had to get this rant out of me, although I have nothing against Argentina as a team who have performed very well, would love to see them knocked out just to shut that guy up from complaining. I wouldnt mind but they were getting every decision anyway and were in the lead.
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It is harsh on Murphy - thought he should get a 5 or 6.
For some time I have believed two things about a good generation of Irish players.
#1 The front row and half backs are club level, not international calibre. Therefore, they get found out in the big games.
#2 They rely on brilliance from a small number of players to compete with the top 5.
Seems pretty true that the key players did not/were not able to/were not coached to perform at their best this tournament.
As for all the 'sack O'Sullivan' comments - slight problem, the IRFU let him sign a 4 year contract pre RWC. It will surely cost Ireland a stack of cash to buy him out of a contract so think you will be stuck with him...
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err........ ronan o'gara 5?
i don't know what game u were watching but when u get a video of ireland/argentina you'll find that's about 4 too many
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Spot on with murphy... defensively... weak... the garryowen is as defensive a move as it is offensive... and did he gather one of them.. no... why... they were too long... he didn't run up the field, he pottered.. then hoisted it too long... he should have run back, then put in a really high lofted one, and the whole team could run at it
he scored a try, fair play, but he didn't create one.. people say he's a game breaker... did he do anything dempsey wouldn't have done... he's icredibly slow for either a winger or full back... and aint a great tackler
he is a good try finished, and didn't play any worse than the rest bar o driscoll, who created two tries... on his own... but he lost the ping pong kicking battle, without help from rog... and that's not good enough... bring in rob kearny... heaslip... murphy... leave reddin in... try hogan... say 4 or 5 new faces for the first 6 nations match, keep em in for the whole thing.. with a mix of veterans aswell... make people fight for places.. might give the older heads the kick up the arse they need
god only knows what's going to happen at fly half, send the others back to provincial rugby to get the fight back
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I agree with the general verdict on O'Gara. His kicking has been poor thoroughout the tournament and it has been his only option. There appears to be a lack of understanding of one of the basics of tactics - if its not working change it!
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Murphy was worth at least a 6 for his effort and attempts to start some meaningful attacks, but O'Gara was very poor as he has been for most of this world cup. Ireland never do well when they are touted as 'favourites' and they never recovered from a poor buildup to the tournament.
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I dont believe there are sour grapes over here in Ireland. People are just frustrated with the performances and I think you will find the vast majority of people on these discussions have held their hands up and said that Argentina were worthy winners!
I still believe Ireland are a better side than Argentina but they are simply very low on confidence. I never thought we would win the world cup but I thought we would reach the semis. We just havent performed to our potential, it happens in every sport with teams and individuals and these things happen. This group of players kind of remind me of Holland or Spain in soccer. Very talented bunch but just something missing at the crucial time.
In every sport, people underachieve and thats life, you just got to get on with it and learn from it. I believe Ireland will learn from this and will come back stronger. It will hurt for some time to come but you have to believe the fear of failure will drive them forward the next time. Afterall we knocked Argentina out of the last world cup and now look at them.
I fully believe we can do the same and we will prevail.
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Lets be honest aswell. Argentina beat France... France trounced us... Argentina beat us... it was a little closer than the score shows... if it wasn't for the 4 tries tied around our necks, if we could have played just for the win... we could have scraped it..
but we didn't, and that was our fault... argentina have class players... hernandez (scuze my ignorant spelling) is the player of the tournament.... contepomi is a class act, pichot is aswell... don't even mention the forwards..
so they have passed us out... that's life.. and france have always been ahead of us... save one fine day when dricko did for them... even then it was sooo close to a loss.
so into the 7 nations.... at least one of the games should be in argentina... wether we mix it up so they play all the matches in a bunch or play some of the matches out of san sebastiene or whatever... screw the tri-nations... that's dying on it's sbobbish feet. The distances are big, but not much worse than RSA to New Zealand and the time diff is way better... just give the travelling team a week off, it's 7 teams, it has to be that way.... job done
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Geordan Murphy's rating is spot on. For some reason many (including John Inverdale) thought he was the best Irishman on the pitch. If they watch the game again, they will see that almost every Argentinian score came from a Murphy mistake - one of the countless missed high balls (surely any full-back must be rated on his ability in this area) or yet another aimless kick back to the opposition. It is fair to say that if Murphy was worth 3 (rather generous in my view( then O'Gara would have been lucky to score 1. His tactical kicking was absolutely woeful. That O'Sullivan didn't try someone else at 10 (preferably Paddy Wallace - but even David Wallace couldn't have done worse) should convince the blazers at the IRFU that they have mad a monumental (and probably very expensive) error in giving EOS another 4 years.
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am glad not to see too many negative comments about o' driscoll. He wasa general without an army. He tried to carry irish rugby on his back ............even u brian are not capable of that.....it was so sad to see so many of your colleagues doing little more than going through the motions....rugby is a game that must be played with passion...Itsa wake up call for irish rugby........argentina had power .......before they lacked pace .now they have pace power and no little skill......they have improved past us since the last world cup.....there needs to bea major review of all aspects of irish rugby from the bottom(schoolboy rugy) up. Somebody in the Irfu needs to accept responsabilty for lack of progress. my personal opinion is that how we manage the transition from schoolboy to club rugby...is crucial. (massive loss of talent at that transition).from there on ground is being lost.
Finally jordan murphy showed he should never have been dropped from the 21.Ireland is firmally in the 2nd division of world rugby. plz come up witha plan to get us into the first division.
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Dirty Flanker, I didn't seem to be watching the same game as you it seems, because I saw just as many Pumas taken out chasing the high ball as Irishmen, some of them very cynically.
And as for Contempomi having a pop at O'Gara, well, quite a few people noticed saintly Ronan having a go himself not too long before that. It even drew the attention of the text commentary here if memory serves.
So it's not like the Pumas were cheating so and so's by falling over with cramp, if Ireland had done it, it would be smart play, right?
But well done for acknowledging the defeat and not blaming it on the foul play you saw, the spirit of rugby prevails, which is nice to see.
Vamos Pumas!
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post 214: Dirty flanker
I would agree and I deplore it. Already in the opening match did they use every possible trick and were on the constant verge of undiscipline, not always sanctioned I must say. It was so irritating to see Pichot constantly discussing with the ref in hope he could influence his decisions.
I would also hate to see the football attitude and mentality invade Rugby and be riddled with buffoon players simulating injury on the pitch and tricking the ref into giving them a penalty.
To be honest, the Argentinians don't need that. They are good enough a side to just play the game and win on their talent. Lets hope they will not come down to playing comedy.
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You were absolutely right first time about Murphy. And I am impressed that (unlike th eFive -live commentators) you are willing to be so honest in your assessment of a fellow 91Èȱ¬ employee.
As usual, he looked quite good going forward, which is why he caught the eye a good deal. But, also as usual, his defence was not merely incompetent, but negligent. He was at fault for both Argentinian tries: the second one was solely his fault. He was insecure under the high ball (which is why the Argentinians kept using it). His own kicking was worse than O'Gara's (which admittedly is saying quite a lot). He gave away countless turnovers in contact. He is also the only man I have ever seen dive on a rugby field, which (win or lose) is the greatest possible disgrace. He should never play for Ireland again. (Actually he should never have played for Ireland again after he bottled out of tackling Ibanez and cost us the 6N).
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We were less than mediocre and have been for sometime.
Argentina were excellent and have been for sometime.
ROG was so awful I cant believe you bothered to rate him at all.
We would have been better off with 14 men!
At least I can get back to my favourite past-time of slagging off the Donny Ladyboys now.
Pumas for the cup!
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Post 216: Clearly your guide-dog was unable to convey the play to you adequately! Murphy had a good game, and is world class. The fact that EOS regularly does not play him is not his fault! The man is a magician, and boy did Ireland need magicians! He did not get much chance to shine - but when the pack does not show up what can you do? (Unless you are BOD???)
I also give the Irish back row zero (in total) like some other posts. They got turned over so many times their arses and their elbows were indistinguishable!
I am English, and was much in envy of this Irish team. How is it possible they lost so much form?
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I´d like to apologize to our friends in Argentina because we´re obsessed by the Irish performance over the last 10 games. Everyone recognises you have a great team. You will beat Scotland with ease and I wish you the best against South Africa. However anyone who loves rugby in Ireland knows how crucial it is to get rid of EOS and his cronies in the IRFU. Hence the intense fixation with our own failures.
On EOS´s recent massive wage rise and extension for 4 more years, the words of Campese in 1991 still ring in my ears : "I'm still an amateur, of course, but I became rugby's first millionaire five years ago."......
Hmmmm...whats the difference between Campese and O´Sullivan....Well they both have been rewarded handsomely for lives dedicated to Rugby Union....but ....well...CAMPESE WAS A WINNER!!!! And hence Campese deserved his reward.
Reference to John Brady and point 196:
In spirit you belong to another generation - a generation of losers (or alternatively you must be EOS´s friend). There is no reason why Ireland cannot win a Rugby Union World Cup in the future. Look at Australia - they have the same player numbers and their players have to contend with playing second fiddle to their legendary rugby league counterparts. But they have selected winners to manage their organisation and lead their squads. Being a successful coach is measured by the amount of silverware you win. Many of the players selected for the 1st 15 are proven winners (from the performances they give with their clubs). You focussed on selection policy and have not mentioned EOS´s blind ignorance in not rotating the players and not bringing players in earlier n the game (before its lost) and in not bringing in new blood. He´s the head coach - NOT JUST A SELECTOR. AND HE´S AN UTTER FAILURE. His job is to motivate, to come up with a coherent plan and TO WIN. As previously pointed out Gatland was and is a proven winner - just look at Wasps and Waikato. It was obvious from the beginning that firing Gatland and getting a local boy (of your ´realistic´and ´negative´ mental set) who had NO PEDIGREE OR WINNING RECORD AS PLAYER OR COACH was a grave error. He never took the team to a higher level than the year Gatland left - and he had wonderful players at their peak at his disposal. Remeber the year they fired and insulted Gatland he had won 4 out of 5 games in the 6 nations (prior to most of these players reaching their peak). I was also at the game in which we gave New Zealand a fright in Lansdowne Road - it was obvious he was doing an amazing job. After summarily dismissing EOS, Phillip Browne should fly over to New Zealand and ask Warren Gatland, cap in hand, to come back. He would almost certainly succeed. After we produce a winning Irish team, then we can look to install an Irish coach from the ranks of those winning players - if people feel thats important. If we do not choose a winner from the southern hemisphere then the least bad solution is Declan Kidney - if he can forgive the IRFU for having to work for a far lesser coach who could not take his advice.
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re. Dirtyflanker comment# 215
Please watch the game again with NZ commentators and provide an unbiased opinion.
Ireland tackled in the air and around the neck on Contepomi, so? Is the heat of the moment. The view on Murphy was that he has great acting skills (read NZ press if you don't believe me)
The attitude of Ireland's captain was a disgrace during and after the game.
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I was at the State de France when Ireland played France last week. It was the most inept display by an Irish team I had seen for some time. They never ever made a break despite having quite a bit of ball. It was obvious that it was time to make changes, but none (only enforced) were made.
The performance against a good Argentinian team was shocking. International players could not catch a ball, lost nearly all loose ball, couldnt pass. I embarrased by how bad Ireland have been in this world cup and deeply depressed.
In my view EOS should go, now. A new team shold be selected with only a handful of the current squad remaining.
Its difficult to single out players after a poor team performance but against teh French and Argentinians O'Garas kicking and direction were simply awful.
A completely gutted Irish Rugby Fan.
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You failed to score the ref and linesmen who seemed to ignore Murphy getting illegally blocked when chasing a kick???? The poor guy had no option but to run in his own 22 in the end. At least he took his catches cleanly and showed some spirt - his head didn't go down.
Unlike O'Gara - who was the worst kicker I've seen since school days. Utter pants.
The pumas line out seemed their weakest point - why oh why not kick into touch and at least get 50% chance of getting the ball and getting organised. Even on the pull, you were no worst off?
There will be no Northern Hemisphere team in the competition after next weekend - what's happened in the last 4 years??????
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We'll be back.
My team for the 6Nations:
15 Dempsey
14 Duffy
13 BOD
12 Trimble
11 Horgan
10 ROG
9 Stringer
8 Heaslip
7 Johnny O'Connor
6 Wallace
5 Hogan
4 O'Connell
3 Hayes
2 Flannery
1 Horan
Bench: Best X3, Young, Boss, Murphy and Rob Kearney
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Pumas will play the final against All Blacks. I am sure.
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Complaining about Argentina being cheats is pathetic. They simply played the modern (cynical) game. Whether you agree with it or not, it is part of the game. NH teams have labelled the AB's, Aussies and SA's cheats for at least a year because they are more astute at playing the referee.
The bottom line is that they have moved with the times and the NH teams have not. Which is probably why there are a preponderance of SH teams in the QF's.
We need to grow up and quit blaming others for our inability to succeed.
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I think ratings given for this performance do not mean a great deal.
The manner of defeat was entirely caused by the terrible performances and lack of bonus points in previous games.
Having to score 4 tries against Arg meant that Ireland had to chase the game. They were sometimes a little too adventurous in doing so and were undone tactically by a team that has, from simply a team with a very good pack, turned into a real force, with some excellent players behind the scrum.
Maybe a little too "professional" at times I agree, Pichot has to be told to shut it and the game as a whole has to guard against some of the pansy game's excesses. I might add, they are not the only culprits.
Back to Ireland ratings, feel very sorry for Geordan Murphy. Ignored for the rest of the tournament, he was asked to try and conjure up some magic from fullback and was let down by O'Gara's terrible kicking - once again. Hernandez in particular (normally a 15, not a 10) was a class act and made him look like a novice. Again though, the nature of the game and the margin of victory required exacerbated this.
As for EOS; "the most difficult pool". Maybe so, but under HIS direction, Ireland toiled against the "lesser" teams, which created the final game dilemma. Also; "I wouldn't use the word disaster". For that statement alone, he should be vilified, then summarily dismissed.
Ireland have been the form 6N team, with, for once, real aspirations in this tournament.
He is a whining, pathetic disgrace to a proud rugby nation.
As a neutral in this contest, the best team won on the day but a normal winner-takes-all contest would have been a real cracker and probably a better indication of the 2 teams' merits.
Having said that though, don't Argentina look a good team now?
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nial o'connor for out half, playin wel 4 ulster da last few games and cudn b much worse than o'gara
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I think that all the Irish players were poor, but considered Geordan, the lowest ranking plsyer as one of the best.
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I think ratings given for this performance do not mean a great deal.
The manner of defeat was entirely caused by the terrible performances and lack of bonus points in previous games.
Having to score 4 tries against Arg meant that Ireland had to chase the game. They were sometimes a little too adventurous in doing so and were undone tactically by a team that has, from simply a team with a very good pack, turned into a real force, with some excellent players behind the scrum.
Maybe a little too "professional" at times I agree, Pichot has to be told to shut it and the game as a whole has to guard against some of the pansy game's excesses. I might add, they are not the only culprits.
Back to Ireland ratings, feel very sorry for Geordan Murphy. Ignored for the rest of the tournament, he was asked to try and conjure up some magic from fullback and was let down by O'Gara's terrible kicking - once again. Hernandez in particular (normally a 15, not a 10) was a class act and made him look like a novice. Again though, the nature of the game and the margin of victory required exacerbated this.
As for EOS; "the most difficult pool". Maybe so, but under HIS direction, Ireland toiled against the "lesser" teams, which created the final game dilemma. Also; "I wouldn't use the word disaster". For that statement alone, he should be vilified, then summarily dismissed.
Ireland have been the form 6N team, with, for once, real aspirations in this tournament.
He is a whining, pathetic disgrace to a proud rugby nation.
As a neutral in this contest, the best team won on the day but a normal winner-takes-all contest would have been a real cracker and probably a better indication of the 2 teams' merits.
Having said that though, don't Argentina look a good team now?
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having spent most of today writing on the other bbc blog..i would certainly add my tuppence ha'penny's worth that it is pointless criticising the players who lost ball going into contact and getting turned over...it is an unfair reflection on the game they had to suggest that they were at fault for argentinas scramble defence. My point is that if the irish management had looked at the france-argentina game or any of the other games argentina have played, they surely would have realised that the one thing argentina thrive on is turnover ball...but so does every good team out there..in fact this is the very thing that we noticed on the lions tour and the couple of games we played against south africa last year (summer 2006..wasnt it?) when we were brutally beaten by teams doing the very same thing to us as argentina have been doing all tournament. We have celebrated darcy and o'driscoll the way they rip ball from the tackled player..winning penalties if the tackled player holds on, yet we have forgotten that the southern hemisphere teams have all 15 players who are taught how to perfect this skill..it is not rocket science. and then there is the simple idea of supporting the runner...geordan murphy is a brilliant support runner but it is again a simple and effective skill to perfect...just give the ball carrier some support...again the whole NZ, Australian and South African teams do this for every phase...classic example yesterday, geordan breaks from the no.10 channel inside his own 22..makes some ground, looks around to offload and not a green jersey in sight! that is hardly his fault..there should easily have been a flanker on his shoulder. we actually had gotten this skill right in autumn 06 but in the 6 nations, we had forgotten about it all. the 6 nations is a joke of a tournament at this stage because you get away with playing badly and beating tripe like scotland and italy
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When I started playing rugby, there was a lot of kicking in the game. Then in the post professional era and with the rule changes, kicking was discouraged. Now it seems it is back. This will be known as the kicking world cup from southern hemisphere.
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"I believe Ireland will learn from this and will come back stronger"
Ah, the mantra of losers. England drummed this tune a lot in the past few years. Is it our turn now?
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The Argentine RFU have serious financial problems, there is no professional rugby in Argentina and most of the national team play their rugby in Europe. So what does this say about financial backing of a national team and the state of European rugby?
I have just returned to UK after living in Buenos Aires for the last three years where I used to watch local rugby on a Saturday afternoon. Before I left (but before the start of the tournament ) I judged that I could risk 50 quid of my money on Argentina to reach the semi-final. Only one game to go!
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2 things.
1) I'm not sure what game Bryn watched to give Paul O'Connell a rating of 4. for me he was the best Irish forward on display. Though I grant you that's not sayin a lot.
2) Someone's head has to roll. Eddie has said he would quit and has been givin backing by the powers that be of Irish Rugby, who to my mind are the ones to blame. The reason for giving him his last four year contract was so he would be in place til this world cup. How stupid do you need to be to give him another one before the World cup has even started. This is the best back line in the world and we're knocked out at the group phase. I know Ireland are a small country but this was not because of a lack of ability. It was poor preformance.
Ireland need changes. The powers that be need to given their P45.
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2 things.
1) I'm not sure what game Bryn watched to give Paul O'Connell a rating of 4. for me he was the best Irish forward on display. Though I grant you that's not sayin a lot.
2) Someone's head has to roll. Eddie has said he would quit and has been givin backing by the powers that be of Irish Rugby, who to my mind are the ones to blame. The reason for giving him his last four year contract was so he would be in place til this world cup. How stupid do you need to be to give him another one before the World cup has even started. This is the best back line in the world and we're knocked out at the group phase. I know Ireland are a small country but this was not because of a lack of ability. It was poor preformance.
Ireland need changes. The powers that be need to given their P45.
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#267...the best back line in the world? I am not even sure they are the best backline in Ireland.
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#267...the best back line in the world? I am not even sure they are the best backline in Ireland.
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I was unhappy at Darcy and Murphy getting turned over a lot, but this has a lot to do with our backrows play in this whole world cup. For guys who can normally dominate, they were nowhere to be seen. Best team won. Fair play... And that Anthem we have is appaling.
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