91Èȱ¬

This isn't the reason at all. The reason why the British team is known as 'Team GB' is because the Irish Olympic team represents the whole island of Ireland. It always has done since Irish independence, just like in rugby union. There was a prominent Irish member of the IOC back in the middle part of the 20th century who saw to it that this remained the case. Athletes from Northern Ireland generally compete for the Irish team (it's easier to get into), although they are given the choice, and so some do participate for the British team.

The British team tried to change its name to "Great Britain and Northern Ireland" and athletes were introduced under that banner in 1992 and 1996, but the IOC eventually ruled against it and so we're back to plain old Great Britain.

Ooo, first post!

.....or not. Oovarvoooo!!

Unusually, you've said not very much in this blog. There were many articles & posters who gave a much more detailed explanation about this last August when everyone seemd to have an opinion of why "Team GB" was so.

You do touch upon the key points - when we registered our name with the IOC in 1896, we were Great Britain, as Ireland didn't exist as its own country then and was part of Great Britain. Ireland became a Free State but with the IOC we've still been Great Britain and hence Team GB has come to pass.

Roger - Await the rants from those who don't like it. I say, you should stick with Team GB: to do anything else would be to be "politically correct".

I'm sorry, but using the same name since 1896 is not an excuse. At that time, all of Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and its people were not, for the most part, treated particularly well.

Now, I've no intention to get into the rights and wrongs of British behaviour in Ireland (north or south), but it is certainly true that at that time, the English weren't best known for their sense of inclusivity or egalitarianism. I'm sure very few people involved with a 19th century British Olympic team cared a whit for the position of the Irish, just as those associated with English cricket felt no urge to highlight the Welsh involvement in their side.

But it isn't 1896. Times have changed. The UK has changed, Ireland has changed, sport has changed, and this country's position in the world has been transformed beyond all recognition. We can't overlook part of our country, particularly not for a 'brand' that has only come into being in recent years.

"team GB"

one of the most ghastly phrases ever created

theasparagus (post 1). What you write is very misleading. I can quote from this press release from the Northern Ireland executive about how important it is for their athletes to be part of the GB team:

"Sports Minister Gregory Campbell has called on the UK Sports Cabinet to help ensure that Northern Ireland gets proper recognition in the title of the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympics team.

"At a meeting of the UK Sports Cabinet this week in London the Minister said it was unfortunate that the title ‘Team GB and Northern Ireland’ was so frequently shortened to ‘Team GB’, particularly in media circles."

It may be the case that Northern Irish athletes can chooses compete for Ireland, but the landmass that we refer to as "Northern Ireland" is represented by Team GB in the Olympics.

It is indeed complicated, and as someone who has lived in both the UK and Ireland, this issue is tied in with both politics, identity, and plain old economics. First dealing with the politics and identity issue: remember that for the most part, these are individuals representing a nation, and the Good Friday Agreement reaffirmed the choice for all people born in Northern Ireland to identify themselves as British citizens, or Irish citizens, or both, while the UK would continue its administration. In a way, adding the 'Northern Ireland' to Team GB is a step too far in terms of the Good Friday agreement, that is that Team GB has essentially stated that everyone in Northern Ireland is British by default unless they declare otherwise (for balance, Team Ireland maybe should also stop saying that it is the Olympic team for the whole island of Ireland). It would have been more wise to step away from that presumption and let athletes make this sometimes very personal and political decision without this added ingredient. Second, the economic issue. For many Olympic sports, asking competitors to pay the money to cross the Irish Sea for national competitions or teams to play in leagues based in Britain is simply too much to bear, and for this reason most Olympic sports in Northern Ireland are tied into the Irish development and league systems (apart from profitable sports or those with big GB personal grants such as football, athletics, or rowing).

I agree with archicrooks that 'Team GB' is a pretty awful name. Whilst 'Team UK' wouldn't be a huge improvement, and it would still be made into too much of a brand by the PR people, but it would at least be correct. In this case, I don't see it as being 'politically correct' in the usual usage of the term, just geographically correct.

Oh, for crying out loud. "Team GB" is an horrendous americanism designed to foster a tubthumping 'teamspirit' in a way alien to British culture. Quite frankly, it disgusts me.

It's the same for the British Cycling team. Fantastic individual achievements but face it.... no team events, just great individual achievments and in the 91Èȱ¬ SPOTY, completely incorrectly given the team award.

It is an indication of the wooly headed thinking that is ruining many things in this country, including sport. Why are things run by people that need gimmicks and insist on putting their stamp on things when in actual fact, what they need to do is get away from meetings and brainstorming and 'out of the blue sky box envelope synergistic' thinking and get out there and organise things.

We don't need to be sold "Team GB" with all it's advertising and branding when the whole country is behind the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team anyway. Save the money, save the gimmicks and spend the cash and time where it's needed.

The Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team means something. It's got Great in the title for a start. The World relates to the full title whereas Team GB is a poor copy of Team USA. The psychology of Team USA simply does not translate.

Get rid of it and just have GBR instead. It's all it needs. We don't need a brand, we're not selling anything and I for one am not buying into it.

The whole notion that sport has become a disgusting, money obsessed arena is perfectly embodied when men in suits throw the word "brand" around when talking about a team or athlete. This is even more shocking in light of this being about the olympics- where amateur excellence and taking part are supposed to be the ideals.

Also I hate the Americanism of using Team as the prefix. Why not GB team? I would love to see the USA calling themselves Team America though.

Glad you enjoyed your holiday Roger, some of us had to work through the entire summer!

Don't know what all the fuss is about the only reason why its called great britain is because its got a little bit of ireland in it.

re: post 7

"the landmass that we refer to as "Northern Ireland" is represented by Team GB in the Olympics."

No it isn't. In the eyes of the IOC, the island of Ireland is represented by the Irish team. The island of Britain is represented by the Great Britain team, hence the (admittedly horrible) name "Team GB." As I mentioned in post 1, a past attempt by the British Olympic authorities to have athletes introduced as being from "Great Britain and Northern Ireland" was ruled out by the IOC. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, that's the decision.

I'm not convinced that this is a particularly big deal for the athletes, who after all can choose which team they want to compete for, so long as they're good enough. Oliver in post 7 quotes a press release from NI sports minister Gregory Campbell, but that needs the big health warning that he is arguably the most hardline Unionist politician currently serving in Stormont. He famously claims to have never even spoken to any Sinn Fein member. Mr Campbell's views don't necessarily reflect those of any athletes.

Vee_Dubber_Marv and bigjonatkinson - I could barely agree with your posts more, well said.

It's not really any different to the team of the England and Wales Cricket Board being called England.

This doesn't offend me as a Welshman but I have many compatriots who consider the England cricket team in the same way they do the football team - they support whoever they are playing against.

Just add myself to those opposing the name 'Team GB' and the idea that the Olympic team should be a 'tremendously strong brand'.

Back to Wikipedia people.



Whilst Northern Irish people can choose to represent Ireland, Team GB (I know, it's horrible) enters the Olympics under the name Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I for one think we should enter under the real name of our country, which is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."
It's a bit long, but we could still abbreviate to GBR, and we could still drop the Team GB.

Radio 4's iPM programme did a segment on this to which I contributed late last year.

We cold sort all this out by getting rid of "Team GB" and having each individual nation compete under their own name as in the Commonwealth. If the IOC object then just grant all the nation states of the UK independence...

The problem with this is the United Kingdom and Great Britain both may be a thing of the past in 2010. If the Scottish government go to the voters with the referendum and the Scottish people vote for independence both names will be useless. Why do we have to enter under one banner. Can we not have 4 teams and therefore 4 times the chances of winning events??? Team Northern Ireland, Team Scotland, Team Wales and Team England. Bit of rivalry would be healthy.

If we are classed as one country grouped under one title what happens when they decide that GB is part of the EU and that the EU can only have one team.

Split Team GB (UK) into four so that each Nation can compete and install some national pride in each of our separate national identities and sports men and women!

People in Northern Ireland have the right to choose whether to consider themselves to be British or Irish. If you consider yourself to be Irish then in all likelihood you will follow the Irish team and not be one bit offended by the omission of "NI" from "Team GB" as it's totally irrelevant. If you consider yourself to be British, I cannot see why Team GB would be offensive either.

Team GB - representing a 'nation' which doesn't exist.

With l'Équipe Unifié (1992) and a joint Korean team (2000?), IOC recognition of countries (and, YES, I do know the distinction between nations and countries) has always been questionable.

But when London is hosting the games in 2012, isn't that a good reason to get it 'right'?

Why "Team GB"?

I fully agree that it is important that all parts of out nation are commemorated in the title of our Olympic team, and these issues have been dealt with well in the comments already here.

However, my major gripe on the subject is the use of the word 'Team' in "Team GB", and I would be equally unenthusiastic about "Team UK". This obsession with managment speak may be at home in banking, management consultancy and the beautiful office run by Mr David Brent, but it smacks of insincerity and naffness to me.

A long time ago UK athletes spoke of "putting the 'Great' in Great Britain" and that seemed far more appropriate and less "management-consultanty".

Given recent events at West Ham vs. Millwall, "putting the 'United' in United Kingdom" wouldn't be a bad slogan either.

Thoughts...?

This is all very interesting, but what about our cousins in the Isle of Man, and all our Channel Islands friends if as some have suggested we split up the UK countries to individual nations?

If Rugby makes it into the Olympics where does that leave those NI players picked for Ireland?

What a tangled web we weave....

#25, Original-Democratus:

"but what about our cousins in the Isle of Man, and all our Channel Islands friends"

When they start paying UK Income Tax (and indeed become part of the UK, rather than Crown Dependencies), THEN I will give those individuals some consideration.


As for now, life's too short....

Re. Post 8 "..... the landmass that we refer to as "Northern Ireland" is represented by Team GB in the Olympics."

The landmass that we refer to as "Northern Ireland" is also represented by Ireland at the Olympics.

It would make far more sense to field separate English, Welsh and Scottish teams than a UK (or GB) one - just as those nations do in so many other leading sporting events. It would get around the ridiculous situation of having to field an 'England' football team under the incorrect banner of being a GB team, too - there is no such thing as a GB football team, of course.

I believe the Scottish Government looked into fielding a separate team for Scotland, but were rebuffed by the IOC on the basis that only a 'state' as opposed to a 'nation' is allowed to field a team.

So how does that fit with Northern Ireland (a small part of the state known as the UK) being included with a separate state (RoI)? Sounds like pure politics on the IOC's part to me...

RE # 21 - How would splitting the UK into 4 give anyone any more chance of winning events? If anything they'd have less chance in the team events, and possibly in the individual events as well, since there probably wouldn't be the same amount of funding and quality of facilities available in each nation as is currently the case.

As others have commented, the team (GBNIUK or ROI) for which they compete depends at least as much on their sport as their personal preference. Nigel Ringland commented that Belfast man Paddy Barnes won a bronze for ROI in boxing - all amateur boxing in NI is run under the auspices of the IABA, and all-Ireland body. This is why a few years back Wayne McCullough, from Belfast's staunchly Loyalist Shankill Road, won a silver medal for ROI. Nigel also gave the example of Wendy Houvenhagel from Co Derry who won a silver in cycling for GBNIUK - although originally from NI, Wendy lives in England and actually competed for England in the Commonwealth Games (boo!).

As for the whole Team GB name business, really who cares? I am from Northern Ireland, I am totally ambivalent about the border which is irrelevant to my everyday life, and I am quite happy not to have the name of our wee country linked with GB. People win Olympic medals for themselves first and foremost, the team only exists so that the rest of us can indulge in some mildly jingoistic cheering. In NI we get to cheer for both teams.

Presumably renaming Team GB as 'l'equipe olympique des rosbifs' isn't likely to be on the agenda in the near future??!!

Northern Ireland, Ulster, Great Britain.... etc etc. its all the same to me. And remember its not just Britain, its Great Britain. Just look at our performance at the last olympics for proof of that.

A message to all the all ireland posters. Ireland is the Republic of Ireland. Stop laying claim to stuff you don't own.

NB Have you managed to get Gaelic Games as an olympic sport yet so you can get a gold medal?

Whats wrong with Team GB?
Can you see the 91Èȱ¬ saying : 'lets see how the United Kingdom's medal hopes have been'
Urgh...Team GB is better, why spark a huge debate about it for?
Also Instead of GBR, the graphics would say UK...that could be badly mixed up with UKR- Ukraine and does anyone use 'United Kingdom' anymore, most News organisations says Britain or Great Britain.

Also Roger, now we know where the 91Èȱ¬ gets its info...Wikipedia...ah, you do know its sometimes wrong!

As a Northern Ireland resident, I am very aware of those who feel they need to make the choice to compete for the ROI team or the GB team.. If the truth be told, and it won't be a popular truth, those with a nationalist/republican background will go for the ROI and those who believe in Northern Ireland will try for GB. After Bejing, Paddy Barnes from nationalist west Belfast never mentioned Northern Ireland because, to him, it isn't a country. Houvenaghal was raised in a society where Northern Ireland is considered her home and part of the UK so that was her obvious choice. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with it being easier to get into one or other teams. Politics may not be wanted in sport, but it's impossible to stop the competitors being political..

"NB Have you managed to get Gaelic Games as an olympic sport yet so you can get a gold medal?"

Hilarious! Clearly you haven't grasped the concept of Gaelic games. You've missed the point that people throughout the whole of Ireland take a great deal of pride in supporting and representing their home county in gaelic football, hurling, camogie, etc. That's 'county' not country.

It's just sad that people should waste so much time being bitter/jealous/mean-spirited instead of getting out there and enjoying sport.

'Great Britain' is the principal land mass of the British Isles, and doesn't include the Isle of Wight, Anglesey or the Scottish Isles (Western and Northern) never mind the Crown Dependencies such as Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

It was lazy politics to use the term as shorthand for "England and Scotland" (the two Kingdoms which unified their Government in 1707), and it is lazy sport to continue the fallacy now.

re message 33

and whats wrong with just saying lets see how the british medal hopes have been

thats even shorter than saying team gb

Whilst I'd agree that to many in Northern Ireland who see themselves as British or Irish this isn't a big deal. to those however who see themselves and Northern Irish it is a very big deal.


for Team GB to say "its not our fault" is silly, they use the term and the logo all the time. For the 91Èȱ¬ to say it "isn't our fault" is also silly just because the Americans will call it Team GB doesn't mean you have to.
Our tabloid newspapers referred to the duchess of York as "fergie" and the former Deputy Prime Minister as "Prezza" for years and this didn't force the 91Èȱ¬ to change from use of the correct terminology.

What is worrying is the poor standard of basic education in the United Kingdom that leads to many of its residents (particularly those in England) having no idea about the the history or correct terminology for the various constituents of the country, more galling than the term Team GB is the ignorance of people who feel they need to get money changed to travel from Heathrow to Belfast, who think different passports may be needed , but assume the department of children Schools and Families, or the department of Health From England and Wales exist and control, throughout the Union.

If we were to introduce a National Identity exam for those who want a UK passport I dread to think how many people born and residing within England would fail it.

Being flippant with individuals identities means nothing to those who are not affected but a great deal to those that are. Just ask a Canadian; North Americans the may be, as we are Europeans, but American's they are not. we go to great lengths to get the correct names for many of eastern European Nations that have emerged to independence in the last decade, time for the Beeb and the UK Olympic team to stop blaming others and sort it out, the tabloid public will follow...

Roger - I got locked out of my webbyfoxes account...when I tried to log on via 606, the system said it didnt recognise my password so I opened a new one and lopped the Webby bit off.
Still, Im the same old person from the Webby account, I will give you an easy (but not all the time) time and a Hard time :).
Oh and another thing Mr Mosey...do you go on wikipedia and edit your page?
I would like to know that and does anyone else from 91Èȱ¬ Sport edit their wikipedia entries (if they have one)...just a bit of harmless fun to find out.

Roger - Can I use the "1000 days to go" aspect of your post as a hook to ask how the 91Èȱ¬s role as host broadcaster to the world for the Olympics is progressing ? - and whether it is likely you will be taking on this role for the Euro Football finals in the same year?
I'd also like to suggest something which may seem a bit odd. Very broadly, it occurred to me that it would be a good idea to have a "where's wally" type figure planted in the crowd, who could be televised at an event each day. This could then be used by national broadcasters as they wish -eg to have daily phone-in competitions of which event he/she could be seen. There seem a lot of advantages in doing this; for instance it would encourage the showing, and watching, of the less popular sports. I have never seen anything like this done before (maybe for good reason!).

As I asked the question please may I be allowed to comment--
I feel that if I were from northern ireland and I won a medal, by standing under the GBR banner I woukd feel my medal was worthless but if standing under a UK banner I would be very proud of my contribution
This is NOT 1896 this is 2012 so Lets take the opportunity to get it right and change it to Team UK

The main point is that it doesn't really matter what the Team is called as almost all of the sports are ignored in between Olympic Games. The absolute absurdity of ditching Grandstand - and deliberately destroying it with the idiot Xtreme Sports fest - when there is no hockey, hardly any rowing, minimal cycling, no sailing nothing, not even catch up programmes to say this is where Team GB is at the moment. Oh by the way lets be clear the 91Èȱ¬ won't care until 2012...

One additional question-What happens to "TEAM GB" should Scotland become Indepenent as a result of the 2010 referendum and before 2012??? Stranger things have happened

It is not really bad. there is always another chance to perform well.