91Èȱ¬

Good to see that Orientalist tropes haven't gone out of style! It's not surprising that you can't 'imagine what she's going to face back home' because you, like so many Western journalists, haven't bothered to learn a foreign language (as have countless journalists from the Global South) and actually gotten to know a different culture firsthand. It is sufficient to stereotype over a billion people based on preconceived and frankly erroneous tropes.

I particularly like how you compound these stereotypes by offering anecdotes of the 'irrational' Asian gymnasts crying and the 'rational' Western athletes smiling. Right. No British, American, German or other Western athlete ever cried when they got the silver, did they? Or cried when they lost the World Cup final or European Cup final. They just took it in their stride and were ecstatic to have come second place. No young British sportswoman or man ever felt 'significantly shameful of the fact they have failed to live up to what they believed, and were told, they could do'. That would only be 'Chinese culture'.

And then there are our six year old children playing rugby being coached to 'hit hard' when tackling his opponent, their fathers on the side of the pitch shouting 'Smash him!' When they are older and their ear is half-ripped off in a match, we tape it and send them back on the pitch. When their finger is dislocated, we relocate it and tape it and send them back on the pitch. When there is well-documented evidence that head injuries sustained from playing rugby can leave permanent brain damage, we don't insist our children wear scrum caps. Perhaps a little reflexivity is called for when discussing the brutality of training regimes.

Having spent long periods of my life in China, and actually speaking Mandarin and reading their newspapers, I can assure you that there is a great deal of not only love, but also compassion for their athletes. When one of their gymnasts does not live up to the hype created around her or him - Imagine that! Hype created around a national sportsperson! - some people certainly feel that that gymnast has let the nation down. And just as many feel proud of their effort and heartbroken for that young person who had spent years of blood, sweat and tears to achieve a dream, only to fall desperately short. And the press reflects this range of reactions, sometimes all in one article.

The point is twofold. First, you exaggerate the differences between our cultures and obscure the similarities. Second, you ignore the fact that within cultures, there is actually a significant diversity among the people. Sports journalists need to start recognizing the complexity of our cultural lives, instead of reducing them to overly generalized talking points. The French are moody, unpredictable and passionate. The Germans are cold, calculating and boring. Really? I think you can all do better.

Why can't we appreciate the beautiful gymnastics performed by the Chinese through their hard work? Instead, we are hinting at abuses of underaged children. Bravo! Evan crying for disappointment can indicate so many complicated things. And every single speculation leads to negativity. So predictable that I had to laugh. What a real surprise that another blog here is full of bias and attacks of asian countries, particularly China? And I thought it should be independent and impartial. Well, a good lesson for me.

I agree, and this is not just against Ollie as a lot of 91Èȱ¬ guys seem to push stories down this "they are so different route", if you were to spend your life in the UK and never get over to this side of the world you would just imagine prison camps of faceless, cruel individuals forcing kids to jump through rings of fire - the fact is gymnastics is big business so it is high profile and success is something of a national obsession and this means that youngsters are given a high profile, probably too early in life. Having said that stories of lynch mobs back home is just misguided, and it is not as though we have much room to comment when we have football clubs paying GBP20m+ for teenagers and then having them live under a constant media spotlight.

Chinese will win the gymnastic gold medals again, no doubt, just like British are going to win more rowing and cycling golds. Big deal, you fall down you pick yourself up again. Says me...

Londonirishlad - eloquently argued. We in the liberal (and not-so-liberal) like to see things in black and white terms, and certain countries like China fall conveniently into the 'villain' category. Anyone who visits China with their eyes open and makes even a cursory attempt to engage with Chinese society will see that children are hugely valued, and in many ways much more so than here. Yes Chinese society is harsher than in Western Europe, yes it can seem brutal and uncaring at times - children have to grow up and fend for themselves much earlier there, as they do in much of Asia. But it's too easy to focus on these differences while ignoring the ways in which it is fairer than our own society. And it's pretty unpleasant of us to criticise different cultural practices that stem from the fact that they are, essentially, a country which suffers from extreme poverty, the likes of which we in Europe haven't experienced for a century. While we certainly can't excuse things like cruelty to children on the grounds of 'cultural difference,' we have to resist seeing everything in blanket terms. Gymnasts and athletes Liu Xiang are idolised in China the way we idolise footballers - they and their families enjoy great privileges compared to many other Chinese people, and are seen as representatives of the entire nation. Given all this, it's hardly surprising that they occasionally break down in tears when they don't achieve the very highest levels.

Brilliant Londonirishlad!!!! Couldn't agree more!! The quality of journalism generally is on the decline. However, hasn't it always been a form of propaganda anyway, hence stereotyping and exaggerating differences between cultures. By using sport to get this message across it catches most readers unaware and unconsciously forms biased representations in the mind of outgroups, i.e. other nationalities, resulting in, well, racism, prejudice, xenophobia and fear. Perfect conditions for control. Sums up most of what you read in the press these days anyway

I agree with Londonirishlad about the sweeping generalizations in this story. It's well-meant but hardly realistic.

Have a look at the coverage from the Olympics, and the GB women's quad, for instance. What sort of faces did they have as they accepted their silver medals... they were almost reduced to tears, if not actually so.

Athletes around the world aren't so very different. When your expectation is gold, nothing else will do, or matter.

Just because Tweddle won a gold because her superior rivals fell the author shouldnt feel so smug. Everyone knows the Olympics is the most important while thw worlds happens every 2 and sometimes 1 year. Anyway China's women gymnast is not as strong as the men so any gold is a bonus really.

Nice one londonirishlad. Being a former international gymnast and an international level coach, to understand what happens on the world stage you must first understand what happens in a gymnaasium. There are multiple issues here and i would like to touch upon 2.

1. there are significant socio-cultural and socio-economic issues to be addressed which cannot and should not be addressed in a blog...they are far too complex.

2. if there is an elite club in your area and you take the time to go along you will see training practices which are used in Eastern Europe, China, Japan or in fact anywhere where they have an elite gymnastics programme being carried out. It is a physical impossibility to achieve what gymnasts achieve without being exposed to extreme training methods. As daft as it sounds it would in fact be more unethical of a coach to coach a gymnast the most complex of skills without first physically and mentally preparing them to achieve this.

I remember distinctly Matt Pinsent's article on his sojourn to Beijing with a Chinese girl's face wincing in pain as her legs were stretched beyond her ears. The fact is you cannot expect the human body to achieve super human feats of athleticism without going through super human feats of training. Many would argue that Matt's colleague on board Steve Redgrave should not have been allowed to row his last 2 Olympics given he had developed both ulcerative collitis and diabetes. Would he have been able to face the press with a smile on his face had he not won those games? Would he have been in tears himself? Given Matt Pinsent was in tears after winning his last Olympics I think it only fair to appreciate the delicate state He Kexin would be in having failed to achieve her dream. Gymnasts are the age they are for a reason...the body is not designed to withstand the kind of pressure it takes when it gets older - hence why Beth Tweddle only trains on 2 pieces of apparatus - hence why rugby players and footballers rarely play beyond 35.

If you want to see what happens in a Chinese gymnasium pop along to one of the clubs that is responsible for producing the national team's gymnasts. I assure you, you will see the same training practices being carried out in a demanding yet caring environment. The fact that many of these clubs employ Eastern European or Asian coaches will testify to this fact as will British Gymnastics investment in these very coaching methods at the very highest level! I'll leave you with a rare quote from Linford Christie which actually made some sound sense. After s frosty reception at a press conference he stated "you expect us to produce super human feats on the track and then 10 seconds later you expect us to be normal human beings". Human's don't work in such ways, let alone when the weight of a nation is placed on such young shoulders. Perhaps we should consider what this girl has been through emotionally to get to where she is before we cast aspersions about what she will face upon her return home. If Britain suddenly start winning a girth of gymnastics medals in the next few years then Louis' reaction will change from a happy go lucky impression of his personality to one of doom and gloom if he or his team mates don't live up to their expectations. Just look at English football and rugby national teams...hardly bursting at the seams with joy!!!

If Alonso lost the world F1 title I doubt he will be beaming. Top athletes has high expectation. Also ran sportsmen and women who achieve higher than expected can afford to smile. Ollie need to learn more about people and sports.

Puaff! Again subject to the prejudices of Western supremacy, even as far as emotions are concerned. We see Western sportsmen and women crying all the time, and worse, as they lose, especially on the final stretch. Tennis, football... Just remember the World Cup final match, and the reaction of the losing Dutch team... You needn't go to the Far East to meet sportspeople as human beings, with all their frustrations and sadness as they lose. But of course there is the cliche when you come to the Chinese or the Russian, there is always a "dark side" with them and their training Hu! Fortunately for the Arabs they don't produce top athletes for the moment, so they (and us!) are spared of so much cheap comment.

Everyone is slating the author here and, having only read the first half of the blog I would have agreed. But he did go on to state the other side of the argument, like Trevor Low's comments about the "caring" Chinese coaches. Did you all read the whole article before launching into the usual 'ignorant Western press' diatribes?

Good reality check for China but, be assured, they will come back stronger! So, all to the good.

I do wonder if some people here actually looked past the first few paragraphs of Ollie's blog. I thought it was a good and well balanced article on the whole.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Ollie,
You should know better than to open the can of worms marked 'China'! Having lived in South Korea I know that there is great national pride in the region and it's difficult for a Westerner to understand. If you lived in the Far East you will see things that for us seem uncivilised but as was previously mentioned, it's not a case of right and wrong.

You go on to mention the Japanese athlete crying for an hour. By casting this suggestive slur on Japan, I can't help but think this was a very stereotypical view of the Far East. Personally, at the risk of being berated by pro-Chinese readers, I think some of your views on China are valid, but don't drag Japan into it! If you visited the Far East trip of China, South Korea and Japan you will see they have similarities but also huge differences: as different as the UK, France and Greece. I'll think you've learned nowadays you can't criticise China without being bombarded by the waiting mob!
I'm just glad you didn't mention South Korea, cheers!

Couldn't agree with the comment below more. Subjectivity doesn't look inward for fear of seeing a mirror.

I remember watching the GB womens rowing team losing the gold medal to China at the Beijing Olympics and they were all in tears with Steve Redgrave consoling them. How do you explain that one Ollie?

I hope they win another gold medal and I don’t even like Chinese food, except curries.

Ollie, l probably started watching gymnastics before you were born and I have to break it to you that it is quite common for top particularly young female gymnasts to cry when they fell or didnt achieve what they aim for. I've seen Russians, Romanians, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, American girls all broke down in tears, in fact I've don't see many major competitions were that never happen. It didnt quite happen to British gymnasts because Britain werent expect to do well anyway so any medal is a plus. If you taken the time to watch the coaches you will notice team USA has eastern European so maybe their system is better than homegrown? In diving the Canadian national team is coached by the Chinese, I don't hear criticism of inhumane treatment there.

Interesting article. Some tremendous contributions - particularly London Irish.

The point about tears following failure and the audiences reaction is an interesting one. I think our reaction to it is an emotive one and is usually determined by the person who is crying. An adult crying because of failure does not get the same reaction to a child crying for the same reasons. It is a fact that many female gymnasts appear childlike in their physical appearance and our reaction to their tears automatically follows the path that we take for a child crying. If we saw a rugby prop crying over losing I think many of us would be more inclined to laugh. Entirely different reactions to the same event. In The first we are probably looking for someone to blame for the distress caused to someone unable to defend themselves, the second we find funny because it is such a visible contradiction of appearances. The emotions are the same in the person doing the crying, yet not the same in the onlooker.

I feel that Ollie has been unfairly misinterpreted here. His Blog (and it's a BLOG, not a thesis!) has made its observations objectively without leaning towards any stereotypes (or tropes as one commentator put it).

How the article is seen as one lampooning Chinese methods is beyond me. Many of the comments made here have leapt to the conclusion that the Blog is fundamentally anti-China and have looked no further. The balanced viewpoints expressed in the Blog are ignored and only the negative views drawn on, resulting in quite an acerbic backlash. It seems that many of the commentators have an ax of their own to grind...

Fair play Ollie, I feel you've given all sides of this subject a good airing. Thanks for the great article!

@ Ollie.. 'As for Fernando Alonso, he'd be pretty unimpressed I am sure, but I find it unlikely the strapping 29-year-old will look quite as timid and upset as He Kexin did if he loses the world title.'

Yes yes, just like the strapping John Terry reduced to a baby after missing the PK against Man U in the CL final, or Gareth Southgate before him or Gazza who actually cried on the pitch in the middle of a game that reqd. Lineker to ask Bobby Robson to 'have a word' with the overgrown kid...

Thanks for the response Ollie - as I said originally I was not really having a go at you or the blog/article - more about the fact that I have read a few articles on the 91Èȱ¬ recently where the journalist is (or at least is pretending to be) incredulous about other countries culture or systems and pushing the reader towards an emotive response without presenting a total summary of the facts (in fairness your article balanced out toward the end). One thing living abroad has taught me is that there are far more similarities than differences and I honestly feel that we should be looking to learn from successful nations rather than label them as cruel/robotic/primitive etc.
As others have pointed out similar systems have existed across Europe and the US and the the fact that a young girl would get upset when losing in those circumstances isn't really a story IMO - I guess the point I took umbrage with was the "Can you imagine what she's going to face back home?" comment - which insinuates (wrongly) that she will be castigated - Gymnasts in China are highly admired and respected and the reaction at home will be nothing like a certain David Beckham recieved back in England when he made a mistake at a major championship.