91Èȱ¬

It is a shame that one of Britain's oldest military allies are not allowed entry because of an alleged "security risk", nor that the the USA would not allow them back to their Indigenous 91Èȱ¬land. Iroquois diplomats have been visiting England since the early 18th century where they had a formal audiences the ruling monarch, Queen Anne.
But the bright side with the Iroquois team out effectively barred from entering the tournament because they are men of principle and honour, is that England now has a shot at a medal. And after the World Cup, England does need something to cheer about.

I know the 91Èȱ¬ has to promote smaller sports but blimey guys, this is seriously scraping the barrel!

Nothing wrong with giving exposure to minority sports.

I sort of stumbled into playing lacrosse in Scotland in 1995 and it was one of the best things I ever did. I love the sport and recommend it to anyone; men's, womnen's and "mixed".

I agree, there's nothing wrong with it, I just think that lacrosse on the front page is slightly over the top.

You cant be the best unless you compete against the best.

Of course it isn't over the top. It is an interesting story with many different facets. We are holding the World Championships in a sport in which we are one of the top teams in the world (and current European Champions I believe). One of the other top teams in the world (and inventors of the game) won't be represented at the games because of immigration issues, which gives it a political angle. Then we have the travesty of elite athletes representing England and paying for the privilege! It is a great story and I am very pleased it is on the front page of the website. Good work Ollie and the 91Èȱ¬. Packersftw - expand your horizons.

It's got nothing to do with expanding horizons or keeping an open mind, and I'm not dissing the writer.

You have your opinion, I'll have mine.

I would like to ad my perspective to this issue, which I think is a sad comment on the times we live in. In my opinion, the British government should be ashamed of itself. The memebers of Iroquious National Lacross Team possed NO THREAT to British Security and they should have been allowed to enter the Country. The fact that they will not be allowed to compete in a competition that they invented, really is a shame.

The reason they did not have either US or Canadian Passports is simple. My within the Iroquious Confederacy consider themselves to independant of Both Canada and the United States. Infact, under US law. Native American reservations are treated as Sovern nations.

It is true that all Native Americans have US Citizenship if they live in the United States, how ever the tribes themselves have an Independant status. That is why they have been able to travel with out either US or Canadain passports.

As for the comments of packersftw, I would like you to understand that the game of LaCross is not just an athletic competition for the people of the Iroquois Confederacy. The game has a spiritual significance as well as the game was played as part of festivals and at religious celebrations before Europeans settled here in North America.

@packersftw : "this is seriously scraping the barrel!" "lacrosse on the front page is slightly over the top." "You have your opinion, I'll have mine."

Opinion, yes; reasoning, no.

As a lacrosse player myself I find packers comments disrespectful. As anyone that plays a minority sport knows it is a constant struggle to keep the books balanced for most clubs and indeed most players. The reason people keep paying out these sums of money is because they want to play the sport they enjoy. Any media exposure to the sport helps people keep these clubs afloat as more people become aware of the sport and take an interest be it as a potential player or potential sponsors.

If you knew anything about the sport in this country you would know its one of the fastest growing sports in the country right now mainly being fed by a massive upsurge in interest at university level so you can expect to hear more about this in the future.

At the end of the day England has a world championship being hosted in the country at a sport in which the country is very competitive. After watching the farce of England's world cup campaign surely some uplifting sports news from some of the country's other sports teams should be welcomed.

All that said my interest in this tournament is in the Welsh side which boasts a number of my current and ex-team mates. Good luck boyos!!

As someone who has worked for UK immigration, I am in total agreement that the players cannot be let in unless they travel with a recognised national passport. The documents that they were attempting to use are not valid as they are not recognised as a separate nation under international law. In these days of tight security, it is not acceptable to attempt to cater for the foibles of groups attempting to circumvent the system just to make a statement. I have known of cases where UK citizens have been denied access to the U.S. because they had old style, but not out-of-date passports and had not realised that a visa was required even when their friends with later passports did not need visas.
It may seem bureaucratic, but rules must be rules where national borders are involved.
In the case of the Iroquois, they were all eligible for U.S. or Canadian passports, or if not, then there would have been a problem anyway.
We would not accept a document claiming to be a passport for a Maori, or an Aboriginal, or a Tuareg, or a Taliban, or Al-Quaieda.

"We use sticks and a ball like the ladies, but men's lacrosse is very much more physical. Women's lacrosse is like hockey, men's lacrosse is like ice hockey."

IF Mr Reynolds believs this then he knows very little about hockey!

Great blog Ollie, really appreciate the write up. It's a shame the political and transport issues have been the main reason for bringing the World Championships into the news, but it should be a great tournament. Good luck to England (and Hong Kong) for the rest of their games!

An interesting and legitimate article and even more interesting blog. I just hope that the 91Èȱ¬ now continues to report on the results of this Championship and good luck to England.

I just wanted to agree wholeheartedly with American Sport Fan. I have had the privilege of working for the Huron Nation as a translator in Canada and can confirm their immense pride in their traditional sports and related ceremonies.
The article is well constructed and interesting. Shame some readers prefer to limit their interest to the over-inflated ego-trip that is football and a few other "media-friendly" sports. I am a huge Montreal Canadiens ice hockey fan too, btw, and I have seen enough lacrosse on Canadian TV to appreciate the comparison. Coming originally from Wigan, these sports remind me of my beloved rubgy league - played by true enthusiasts and REAL men and not for money or glory, but for personal pride and honour.

Btw Ollie, after their great run to the Conference finals this spring, what chances do you give the Habs to go all the way next season (bearing in mind that we traded Halak...)?

Absolute disgrace the Iroquois have not been let in - the immigration officials in this country need to read a history book and hang their heads in shame!

I live in Manchester, and until the Iroquois story was reported... I didn't even know the championships were being held in the UK let alone on my door step Manchester.

It's a shame that lesser known sports don't get more in the way of advertising.

The Iroquois situation is lamentable but could and should have been sorted out by all parties a long time ago. It smacks of a team using the tournament to make a political statement, although I hope this is not the case. Regardless of their history within the game, their passports are not recognised, surely someone saw this coming.

@Mancun Ian (and anyone else in the area) I urge you to come down and watch the championships, you'll love it!

www.2010worldlacrosse.com

I'm very happy to see Lacrosse getting some decent exposure. Its been around a long time now in England, and while I think it's fair to say that we're a fair way behind Canada and the US, we're not that far off the pace to be a genuine power.

Lacrosse is the fastest growing sport in Europe - there have been a solid core of leagues in Germany and the Czech Republic (although they play more 'box' lacrosse, the even-more-violent indoor version). Here in the Netherlands we started a league in 2005 and now have 20 teams countrywide. We have helped teams start up in France, Belgium, Spain and Italy, Denmark has had a committed team for years - here in The Hague we even have a Beach Lax tournament every year (now in it's 4th year) with teams from all over Europe.

Terrible shame about the Iroqouis - you'd've thought the UK authorities could make some accommodation wouldn't you?

" the team refuse to register for American or Canadian passports on principle."

They really need new principles. Millions of people in third world countries - indeed, millions of illegal immigrants in North America - would love to get those passports, and they're failing to take advantage of their favourable accident of birth?

It's got nothing to do with owing loyalty to the US or Canada - those passports are just a convenient way to travel easier, something to take advantage of. By all means, let them complain - legitimately - about how their ancestors were brutally murdered by the invaders and how they were shunted into reserves and their way of life destroyed, but they shouldn't let that interfere with their present lives.

Go back two thousand years and think of how many conquered people whined about - but took advantage of - the Roman conquest. Why should they be any different?

#2 is a twit. Just because lacrosse is a boring sport - I'd like it more if I could see the ball - doesnt mean it shouldn't get coverage. I mean, golf is far more boring and it gets coverage!

To all you doubters re minority sports, if you'd been at 'super Saturday' yesterday, minority sport or not, your jaw would have been on the floor after a superb trio of matches. The speed of the Japanese against the Germans, the extra time goals - well deserved - by the Aussies against England and the sheer audacity of John Grant Jnr scoring one-handed for Canada against the US yesterday evening are just some snippets of some awesome Lacrosse.

I play women's lacrosse but the men's game is something totally different. Lets hope they both get the recognition they deserve and become Olympic sports one day. They beat hockey hands down.

buymespresso I rather think that you had better get some new reasoning ability. What happened to the First Nations was genocide, pure and simple. That is why the Iroquois have no desire to attach themselves to the "conqueror".
I would also be really interested to have some examples of peoples that "took advantage of the Roman conquest". By the same logic the occupied French who collaborated during WWII were absolutely right in sending the Jews to labour camps. Sorry buyme. Your logic is fatally flawed on so many levels.

I love the idea that the team should be let in because they pose no risk.(American Sports Fan) I can see that working at JFK. Hi I don't have a passport but you can let me in I am not a risk.

The fact is that the rules on passports were changed three years ago and the Iroquois would have been fine if they had modernised to meet the new rules at the time not a week before they wanted to use them.

There is also archaelogical evidence suggesting a race similar to the Chinese that inhabited N America and were massacred. The site was on sacrd land and was immediated closed to scientists when the evidence was published in scientific literature.

Well, I guess it makes a change to find a sport getting publicity through Politics, Religion (comment #8), and Harry Potter.
Normally the story seems to be about keeping Politics out of Sport.

Rules are rules.

Either the Iroquois administrators are incompetent or they were attempting to make a political statement by travelling on false papers.

It seems like a really fun sport to play, but most clubs around London I checked out seemed to want people that have played before. Are there any clubs out there that cater for beginners?

@ logans_runner

South London clubs Spencer (based in Earlsfield), Hillcroft (Tooting but train in Clapham) and slightly further afield Blues (surther South in Surrey) all have 2 or 3 teams with the lower teams definitely catering for and encouraging new players. See their websites for contact details:

www.spencerlax.com
www.hillcroftlax.co.uk
www.blueslacrosse.com

In the north of London, slightly fewer options inside M25 but Welwyn and Hitchin both have more than 1 team and I'm sure would welcome beginners too.

That's for men's mainly...not so sure on the women's scene! Hope you can get involved and enjoy the sport!

As far as I'm concerned all sport should get some kind of coverage. Publicity is very often what draws new participants into sport. Not everyone likes, or is good at, soccer or cricket so somebody may find a sporting outlet through stories like this.

On the Passport saga, the majority of the stiff regulations regarding Trans-Atlantic travel have been instigated by the US so it's no good castigating UK Immigration for following the rules.

The refusal of entry to the Iroguois lacrosse team is an absolute disgrace. The Iroquois have treaties with a number of countries, including Britain, which recognize their sovereignty. Their passports have been accepted around the world for years. Perhaps this is more about removing some of the main opposition to the England team. Looks like British competitors could have a field day at the 2012 Olympics! Meanwhile, the world governing body for lacrosse should ensure that the U.K. never stages another international event.

It's comical that some people think it was a strategic tactic that the Brits denied the Iroquois entry. Nothing could be further than the truth. I'm a Canadian living in the UK and its clear that the sport is tiny and insignificant here - I live less than 10 miles away from where the Championships are being held and the majority of people I speak to are completely oblivious to its presence (those that aren't work at the university that has allowed its facilities to be used for the tournament).

The people here who do love the game are very upset that the Iroquois have not been able to make it, and that includes the organizers and the teams participating. That said, if the Iroquois passports are not acceptable to the UK as travel documents then the alternatives are (a) don't travel, or (b) accept the offer that was made of a US or Canadian passport. The Iroquois chose not to travel.

Yeah, well I happen to live in La Crosse Wisconsin originally Ho Chunk property. A Ho Chunk native explained to me that the game of lacrosse was played to settle disputes between Native American Nations and it wouldn't be played over a matter of a couple of hours but sometimes for several days until there was a clear winner. The team that won also won the dispute - but the loosing team were put to death. It had occurred to me that some bureaucrat was worried that the Iroquois may want to scalp their opposition.

A cartoon here shows a politician pointing at a man and woman and saying, "We must do something about illegal immigrants and send them back." A Native American standing beside him says, "I'll help you pack."

This land once belonged to the Ho Chunk, the Iroquois, Cherokee and so on. Each Nation will tell you that it is a nation with it's own identity, language and culture - and that's the problem - getting others to recognize what what those of us who know them understand.

Just to update - the tournament was won by the US team, defeating Canada 12-10. Australia took the bronze over Japan. The England team placed 5th, defeating Germany. I'm a Canadian who grew up watching lacrosse (although indoor box lacrosse mostly) and have lived in the UK a long time. I was delighted to see the championships were being held here. The delight turned to disappointment when I realized the only coverage of the tournament on 91Èȱ¬ was of the plight of the Iroquois Nation players. The championship website was the only UK site to have the scores and standings. I listen to 91Èȱ¬ radio all the time and I would have thought Sports Extra would have been a great way to broadcast some of the games. I know the Australia v. Pakistan test match was on toward the end of the tournament, but I would really like to see the 91Èȱ¬ use Sports Extra to promote 'minority sports', especially when a tournament is being hosted here.