91Èȱ¬

I would like to find myself in Belfast at that time. First, because I like that film, and led discussion a couple of times at our Film Club. Second, because they do not sell Harp here (I mean the beer).

Harp is a beer?!?!

Zsolt, let us all know if you're over, and we'll introduce you to some of the proper delights of the Northern Irish drinks industry :-)

I've never seen "The Mission" actually - might try to make it along if possible.

-H

i luv this film and the music!!sounds like a good nite.
Zsolt - too sad about the harp.

My favorite film. "thus we have made the world. Thus have I made it."

What is amazing is the different interpretations that the actors, the writer and the director gave to the film. Robert Bolt ("A Amn for All Seasons") is more sympathetic to the Christian beliefs of the Jesuits, as are the actors. (At least De Niro believed faith was central to Mendoza).
Whereas Roland Joffe, in his directors commentary, is quite hostile to the Jesuit's Catholicism. Ray McNally, an Irsish actor, gives an unforgettable performance as a Cardinal (Altimerro in the credits, but he is never named in the film. He is an everyman - the West - he is us.)

That all sounds a bit pretentious, but trust me, an amazing film.

GV

I did like a man 4 all seasons too. I havent seen the mission in a long time but i thought it was a brilliant story of liberation theology verses traditional theology verses greed verses loss of innocence.

The mission trailer :

Hmmm - I'm not sure. You can take Mendoza as a "liberation theologian", but Gabriel remains traditional. (Perhaps naively so-his faith in the Eucharist is extraordinary.)
The same cross is born by Mendoza, Gabriel and the martyred Priest. Gabriel passes that Cross to Mendoza before the battle, and Mendoza still respects Gabriel's position as a superior, and seeks his blessing.

I'm not sure that Gabriel was ever "innocent". He is certainly acquainted with human ruthlessness. Politically he is naive. And he remains doggedly committed to the idea that Grace will prevail over violence. Whether he is correct to do so is a question that the film refuses to answer.

The critique of capitalism is heavy handed. Don Cabeza is a cartoon villain, two dimensional. When he starts talking like Milton Friedman ("supply and demand is the law of trade") it gets a little grating.

In school I use "The Mission" to illustrate the difference between Just War and Passive resistance. But the film digs much, much deeper.

HAHAHAHAH

NIL-NIL

Brilliant! (sorry about that...had to get it out of my system)

GV-
yeah i havent seen the film in years but it does dig deep - and i guess because it doesnt answer all the questions is why i find it soo appealing.
Talking about Gabriel -Have u watched the film Gabriel?
I found it quite unsettling to. The whole way thru the movie i was like "stop destroying yourself your archangels" (much like u want the slaughter scenes to stop in the mission.)- The movie Gabriel makes u feel that perhaps thats what the archangels feel when they watch us destroy ourselves at times.)
Its got a bit of a following now - its way better than the trailer shows -

(if u havent seen it -dont google the story line until after u have watched it.)

It seemed like a weird idea for a movie. As much as I admire Paul Bettany and Dennis Quaid, I gave it a miss.

- 'tis bit dark - but i've known people who watched this movie and it changed their perception on humanity (to it being something beautiful and something not to be destroyed.) 'tis visually geared to a younger 20 something audience. I never knew Paul bettany & denis quaid were in it though.

Helio enjoy the showing this afternoon! (and will u be bringing some cabbage leaves to throw @ the panel? [lol])
(i'm out of the country - or else i think i might have popped in myself.)
Enjoy fathers day everyone.

We may be talking about different movies. Does yours have zombies in it?

I went along to the showing. It is a superb film and knowing from the beginning more or less entirely what is bound to happen made it all the more affecting.Ìý

The whole of the institutional church, including the Jesuit Order, stands roundly condemned by the narrative but I found it hard to think that the film was really very much about religion other than to show its general irrelevance or impotence in both the era in which it is set and, perhaps, the world since then.

Religion was irrelevant to the Spanish, to the Portuguese, to the Cardinal, and indeed, by implication, to the Pope. Both Gabriel's faith and Rodrigo's deeds are impotent in the face of secular interests. More than anything else the film shows that religion in the mid-eighteenth century has already become a bit player on both the world stage and in the human mind. It depicts the beginnings of the modern vision which gives faith only a place in the heart, able to exercise its power only over issues of individual emotional well-being and personal morality.

I thought Dr Mobayed's comments afterwards were probably the most interesting. It is a moral evil falsely to raise expectations, to entice people to believe in promises on which one cannot deliver and this is an issue, not just for missionaries, but for interventionist governments.ÌýÌý

I don't think that the Jesuit Order is condemned at all by "The Mission". In fact, many of the Liberation Theologians of the 1980's were Priests, acting on conscience, against the Churches better judgement.

Gabriel walks to his death with holding the Host, and the Guarani pick up that host as he falls. (The surviving children, however, neglect the Churches ornaments for a broken violin. That gives the film a secular feel.)

But the film is dedicated to the Jesuit Priests, inspired by faith, who fight for the oppressed. And there are images of Transcendence all over the film (look at the repeated use of light). The sound track aims at the sublime.

The film doesn't fit into a secular mould. Nor does it quite fit a theological mould. I think that is part of its genius.

And don't read the Guarani as being duped. They self-consciously and rationally decide to fight, or to stand by their faith. As I have said they keep that faith to the death.

And Gabriel's faith has a political dimension. He attempts passive resistance, and it very nearly works! If anything, "The Mission" emphasises the community of faith too much - as if Gabriel is a proto-Marxist. I can't see how, or where, it endorses individualism, or a division between public and private morality and faith.

GV

Parrhasios & GV - i liked reading your comments on the mission. Too weird that every character has a different mission in the "mission" - but what is the true mission? Isnt it strange that we r so consumed with working out everyone elses mission in the movie that the fact that the house of God ("the mission", a.k.a "the will of God") is destroyed, is almost forgotton. I do luv this movie.
GV - i think we may be talking about different movies. Gabriel doesnt have zoombies in it. Though i think it might be put in a horror/fiction/drama class ( i said sci/fi earlier - sorry.). Its set in a world like ours only its purgatory and the main theme is fallen from grace. The story is about archangels and their struggle between good/evil and redemption. In the movie the archangels take on human qualities when they enter purgatory (all totally believable!!). So basically u watch these beautiful entities destroy themselves thru greed,dispair,hatred, lack of hope and gathering power for some kind of meaning & salvation (but of course it doesnt work.) It is intense - i had an emotional hangover days after i watched it. But i guess like alot of things - your interpretation of the movie depends on your mood when u watch it.
"The smoothest pebble on the beach -"Your some kid" McDowell" - just had 2 say that - just watched it on tv-

Yup - different movies. I think I was getting it mixed up with "Legion".
Both are a bit weird for my tastes (although I liked "Dark City" and "Knowing" a lot). But looking at "Gabriel" last night, it seemed to achieve an impressive look on a very low budget.

Yes, "The Mission" can be read in different ways. And the filmmakers refuse to resolve conflicting themes. There is a deliberate ambiguity in some scenes. (Is Mendoza experiencing human forgiveness, or divine forgiveness, or both, after his ascent of the Falls? All three readings "work". Of course someone who reads Mendoza as a fraud has read the film incorrectly.)

In that way it is like life.

GV

Graham

If you look closely at my post you will note I said "The whole of the institutional church, including the Jesuit Order, stands roundly condemned by the narrative". The facts condemn them, the events shout-out for themselves. For me the most telling phrase in the whole film is the cardinal's musing "I had to wonder whether these Indians would not have preferred that the sea and wind had not brought any of us to them". Little to muse on there really!

I will come back with a fuller response to your other points as soon as I can. I wonder though if you have read Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go. It is the parallel that jumped immediately to my mind. If you have, can you tell me in what way you think the Jesuits differ from Madame, Miss Emily, and their circle?

Graham - # 15

The fact that religion's spiritual dimension is invoked subliminally rather than presented or argued rather proves my point.

We know Rodrigo has had a redemption experience of some kind but we never know exactly what it is or what it entailed. We don't know if it was essentially emotionally therapeutic or spiritually awakening. We don't know if it is knowledge of the divine mercy or human compassion which moves him to fight with the Guarani.

We know nothing of the soul of Fr Gabriel. We can surmise that his faith in the church is tested when he must tell the Guarani that the Cardinal speaks the will of God but we do not know whether or not he actually believes that on some level this is so. We have no reason to see his actions as passive resistance but every reason to see them as an utterly reprehensible desire for martyrdom. We have no reason to believe that the Guarani were in any position to make informed choices - whether to fight or to stay.

I see this as an overwhelmingly secular film - probably as it should be. This was a situation, a history, where God was well and truly absent. European colonial adventures represent one of the greatest blots on the history of our civilisation and it is an unfortunate truth that the church was most often either centrally involved in the depravity or, where well-intentioned, largely utterly ineffectual.

I do not argue that the film endorses individualism as we understand it, merely that it portrays a reality where religion is impotent outside the personal sphere.

The film is very PC. The slave traders are bad people, the Spanish and Portuguese governments are bad people and the institutional church leaders are bad people. The only good people are Jesus-like Gabriel, the reformed Mendoza, their Jesuit colleagues and the innocent Guarani. The Mission that Gabriel sets up represents what the Church should be doing (its true mission) as distinct from what it is actually doing, which is collaborating with the slave trade.

I found the film a bit preachy, even though I agree with the point that it was making about the slave trade being carried out by supposedly Christian countries from Europe. In fact, given that the slave trade was was carried on for hundreds of years, in both North and South America, it is a bit ridiculous to focus on an alleged anomaly - an institution set up for the benefit of the indigenous peoples. Why not portray the situation that obtained in the majority of cases, rather than the exception? Why not show us the horrors of slavery as millions of poor wretches must have suffered it?

The film industry has never been keen on slavery. There are thousands of films about the history of the USA, featuring cowboys and gunslingers, but hardly any which show how people lived on the slave plantations. In 'Gone With the Wind' we even have a scene in which the slaves are portrayed as happy in their work, to the extent of chiding the "lazy" one who stops hoeing as soon as the bell rings!

At the QFT showing, Les Reid from the Belfast Humanist Group mentioned "Autobiography of a Slave" by Frederick Douglas. I would be more interested in seeing a film based on that book.

AG There's much more to the film, but its take on capitalism is two dimensional.