More than 18,000 , and took to the streets of Belfast on Monday for this year's , but the fun run has now become embroiled in a civic controversy. Many marathons around the world are now run on Sundays, and some think the Belfast marathon should follow suit. But the Presbyterian Moderator has appealed to the organisers to resist that un-Sabbatarian drift. a "significant part of the community will no longer be able to give the event their full support" if it takes place on Sundays, the event would cause congestion problems for church-goers, and many Christians will simply stay away. Sabbatarianism in sport was once a meat-and-potatoes civic debate in Belfast, but those days have past -- or so we thought. The Presbyterian Moderator's intervention in this controversy will add fire to the debate. But is he a voice crying in the wilderness, harking back to the politics and religion of another era, or does he represent the feelings of many people of faith in today's Belfast?
I think the issue of sport on Sunday obscures bigger issues about the way we have organised our society, in which we have no full rest from economic activity. We have no break from the demands of capitalism, with shops open seven days a week.
The Sunday afternoon traffic of the people of Northern Ireland as they clog the doors of shopping centres to consume more products seems to me far greater than the traffic of people going through the doors of our churches on Sunday mornings.
Is this healthy for the people working on the weekends?
Is this healthy for the people who go to the shops out of boredom not necessity?
Is this healthy for the world鈥檚 environment, which is groaning as it strains to keep pace with the West鈥檚 endless demands for goods and services?
As a society, I think we could be asking ourselves bigger questions about our values rather than whether it is okay to hold the Belfast City Marathon on a Sunday 鈥 just one Sunday in the whole year.
I certainly hope people have gotten past this nonsense. The Sabbath was a SATURDAY, dingbats! And if you believe that the principle of the "day of rest" is still valid, then it could just as easily happen on a Monday for a person who works at the weekend (isn't that what ministers do themselves?!), or on a Wednesday for those who get their weekend mid-week.
I'm amazed there's still any serious debate about this. Only in Northern Ireland. (My American wife couldn't get her head around the fact that shops are still prohibited from opening untl 1pm on Sundays. "WHY?", she asked. I told her it had something to do with Sunday being a holy day. "You may as well make it illegal not to attend Sunday morning church," she replied. Good point.)
One of the questions asked on Good Morning Ulster was if the objection to a Sunday marathon was practical or spiritual and it seems to me that these are two reasonable issues for Christians to consider: What do we when society makes decisions which affect the practicalities of being a Christian, and what are the spiritual/theological implications?
On the first point of practicalities, it concerns me that whenever society makes decisions which Christians feel they cannot support or which disrupt Christian activity, our response often reflects that of any other pressure group. One can understand that in what is perceived as an increasingly secular society Christians might feel 鈥榩ut out鈥. I鈥檓 not sure however, that arguing for a marathon day which suits our faith, or seeking the right to wear a cross, or seeking to run an exclusively 鈥楥hristian鈥 guest house, or whatever, is a cause worth fighting for. Nor am I convinced that arguing our own case is a necessary response; why not just wish society well, pray for health and safety, while saying, 鈥淚鈥檓 sorry I won鈥檛 be participating, but have a great day.鈥
This brings us to the second point, theology/spirituality. John has already nailed it, but just to reinforce, *none* of us (Christians) are Sabbatarians. There is no requirement to keep Sunday special and if Christians are not required to keep any particular day 鈥榟oly鈥 why on earth would we think we should impose this on others? Indeed one might argue that Sunday is a day for work. As John (again) says, church work is done on Sunday, but is not Sunday also the day on which God went back to work: when he began his work of recreation? Are we not, if you like, living on the eighth day of creation?!
Peter- I agree with your statement that none of us are Sabbatarians. (There is a Sabbatarian Christian movement, which observes the Sabbath on a Saturday as Jesus did, but as we're not Jews I fail to see its validity, and I tend to think this pick-n-mix approach to the question of which Jewish laws should be passed on to which sorry Christians is something of a theological farce.)
It's a silly debate, because we're individuals. It's worth emphasising the difference between the individual and the community. Only a limited amount of decision-making needs to be made at the community level, namely, that affecting the equal freedoms of everyone. The day upon which I decide to rest, be it for theological reasons or because I am knackered, is a decision made at the individual level. No community power should ever be brought to bear upon it, whether to force the closure of shops (Belfast is the only major city in the United Kingdom NOT to possess at least one shop that's open 24/7) or to affect the dates of community activities.
This is a cultural thing primarily, of course. It's clinging to traditions that makes Norn Ironers act in this way. If the same people who argue so vociferously about keeping Irish Sundays quiet and subdued - as the good Lord would have wanted - had been raised in California, they would be arguing for the sanctity of the right to go out for Sunday lunch at the mall.
It is important to remember that the principle of setting apart one day in seven for the worship of God was established by God at Creation then reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments.
Christians continue to observe that principle, gathering to worship on Sunday - the day of Christ's Resurrection, the day the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost, and as was the practice of the early church.
On the issue of the Belfast Marathon, it continues to be a great event, which Christians are rightly happy to participate in and support. However, I do echo Stafford Carson's concern that moving it to a Sunday would mean the withdrawal of many Christians, and it would certainly affect people wanting to attend worship in churches along the route.
On the wider question of Sunday observance, I recall that it was Voltaire who said: "If you want to get rid of the Christian's God you must first get rid of the Christians' Day." - Let me hasten to add that I am NOT saying that is the view of the organisers of the Marathon! - But I do believe that there are those who are actively pursuing that agenda at every opportunity.
We are always the poorer when we take God out of the equation.
As I understand it the sabbath was created for man, not the other way around. Also to my understanding and experience God does not demand, God is love and will love you no matter what you do .....run /dont run/ and on any day of the week that you choose to run. Also the idea that one day is more holy than another is false .....all days are the same and thus all days are holy or not depending on your outlook....in other words God does not jsut become special on a sunday ....God is always present and it is how we live each day that matters....in terms of we 'suffer' the consequences of our choices. Perhaps a different angle is to ask is it really self-caring, self-loving to put the body through such a prolonged period of non-gentle exercise with all the stress and strain that goes with running a marathon?? It doesn't matter what day you run the marathon on .....question is ....should you really be running one at all ????
John - it is not a moral case - morality does not come into it .....it is a simple and self-evident truth that running a marathon is not a self-loving thing to do .....and energetically is very harming ....there is no judgment on whether people do or dont run marathons .....i'm just putting the question is it really a self-caring form of exercise....and then for each person to choose whether to abuse the body in that way or not.... :-)
The whole Christian church reaction to moving the marathon eventually wore a whole in my heart and I did about it.
The church comes across as self-obsessed with its own comfort rather than being outward looking. And there's a certain hypocrisy that the Church of Ireland put out a press release to celebrate a bishop running the London Marathon in 2009 to raise funds and then Bishop Miller criticised the possible move in 2010!
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More than 18,000 , and took to the streets of Belfast on Monday for this year's , but the fun run has now become embroiled in a civic controversy. Many marathons around the world are now run on Sundays, and some think the Belfast marathon should follow suit. But the Presbyterian Moderator has appealed to the organisers to resist that un-Sabbatarian drift. a "significant part of the community will no longer be able to give the event their full support" if it takes place on Sundays, the event would cause congestion problems for church-goers, and many Christians will simply stay away. Sabbatarianism in sport was once a meat-and-potatoes civic debate in Belfast, but those days have past -- or so we thought. The Presbyterian Moderator's intervention in this controversy will add fire to the debate. But is he a voice crying in the wilderness, harking back to the politics and religion of another era, or does he represent the feelings of many people of faith in today's Belfast?
Comment number 1.
At 5th May 2010, Gladys Ganiel wrote:I think the issue of sport on Sunday obscures bigger issues about the way we have organised our society, in which we have no full rest from economic activity. We have no break from the demands of capitalism, with shops open seven days a week.
The Sunday afternoon traffic of the people of Northern Ireland as they clog the doors of shopping centres to consume more products seems to me far greater than the traffic of people going through the doors of our churches on Sunday mornings.
Is this healthy for the people working on the weekends?
Is this healthy for the people who go to the shops out of boredom not necessity?
Is this healthy for the world鈥檚 environment, which is groaning as it strains to keep pace with the West鈥檚 endless demands for goods and services?
As a society, I think we could be asking ourselves bigger questions about our values rather than whether it is okay to hold the Belfast City Marathon on a Sunday 鈥 just one Sunday in the whole year.
Complain about this comment (Comment number 1)
Comment number 2.
At 5th May 2010, John Wright wrote:I certainly hope people have gotten past this nonsense. The Sabbath was a SATURDAY, dingbats! And if you believe that the principle of the "day of rest" is still valid, then it could just as easily happen on a Monday for a person who works at the weekend (isn't that what ministers do themselves?!), or on a Wednesday for those who get their weekend mid-week.
I'm amazed there's still any serious debate about this. Only in Northern Ireland. (My American wife couldn't get her head around the fact that shops are still prohibited from opening untl 1pm on Sundays. "WHY?", she asked. I told her it had something to do with Sunday being a holy day. "You may as well make it illegal not to attend Sunday morning church," she replied. Good point.)
Complain about this comment (Comment number 2)
Comment number 3.
At 5th May 2010, petermorrow wrote:One of the questions asked on Good Morning Ulster was if the objection to a Sunday marathon was practical or spiritual and it seems to me that these are two reasonable issues for Christians to consider: What do we when society makes decisions which affect the practicalities of being a Christian, and what are the spiritual/theological implications?
On the first point of practicalities, it concerns me that whenever society makes decisions which Christians feel they cannot support or which disrupt Christian activity, our response often reflects that of any other pressure group. One can understand that in what is perceived as an increasingly secular society Christians might feel 鈥榩ut out鈥. I鈥檓 not sure however, that arguing for a marathon day which suits our faith, or seeking the right to wear a cross, or seeking to run an exclusively 鈥楥hristian鈥 guest house, or whatever, is a cause worth fighting for. Nor am I convinced that arguing our own case is a necessary response; why not just wish society well, pray for health and safety, while saying, 鈥淚鈥檓 sorry I won鈥檛 be participating, but have a great day.鈥
This brings us to the second point, theology/spirituality. John has already nailed it, but just to reinforce, *none* of us (Christians) are Sabbatarians. There is no requirement to keep Sunday special and if Christians are not required to keep any particular day 鈥榟oly鈥 why on earth would we think we should impose this on others? Indeed one might argue that Sunday is a day for work. As John (again) says, church work is done on Sunday, but is not Sunday also the day on which God went back to work: when he began his work of recreation? Are we not, if you like, living on the eighth day of creation?!
Complain about this comment (Comment number 3)
Comment number 4.
At 5th May 2010, John Wright wrote:Peter- I agree with your statement that none of us are Sabbatarians. (There is a Sabbatarian Christian movement, which observes the Sabbath on a Saturday as Jesus did, but as we're not Jews I fail to see its validity, and I tend to think this pick-n-mix approach to the question of which Jewish laws should be passed on to which sorry Christians is something of a theological farce.)
It's a silly debate, because we're individuals. It's worth emphasising the difference between the individual and the community. Only a limited amount of decision-making needs to be made at the community level, namely, that affecting the equal freedoms of everyone. The day upon which I decide to rest, be it for theological reasons or because I am knackered, is a decision made at the individual level. No community power should ever be brought to bear upon it, whether to force the closure of shops (Belfast is the only major city in the United Kingdom NOT to possess at least one shop that's open 24/7) or to affect the dates of community activities.
This is a cultural thing primarily, of course. It's clinging to traditions that makes Norn Ironers act in this way. If the same people who argue so vociferously about keeping Irish Sundays quiet and subdued - as the good Lord would have wanted - had been raised in California, they would be arguing for the sanctity of the right to go out for Sunday lunch at the mall.
Complain about this comment (Comment number 4)
Comment number 5.
At 6th May 2010, pastorphilip wrote:It is important to remember that the principle of setting apart one day in seven for the worship of God was established by God at Creation then reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments.
Christians continue to observe that principle, gathering to worship on Sunday - the day of Christ's Resurrection, the day the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost, and as was the practice of the early church.
On the issue of the Belfast Marathon, it continues to be a great event, which Christians are rightly happy to participate in and support. However, I do echo Stafford Carson's concern that moving it to a Sunday would mean the withdrawal of many Christians, and it would certainly affect people wanting to attend worship in churches along the route.
On the wider question of Sunday observance, I recall that it was Voltaire who said: "If you want to get rid of the Christian's God you must first get rid of the Christians' Day." - Let me hasten to add that I am NOT saying that is the view of the organisers of the Marathon! - But I do believe that there are those who are actively pursuing that agenda at every opportunity.
We are always the poorer when we take God out of the equation.
Complain about this comment (Comment number 5)
Comment number 6.
At 7th May 2010, Eunice wrote:As I understand it the sabbath was created for man, not the other way around. Also to my understanding and experience God does not demand, God is love and will love you no matter what you do .....run /dont run/ and on any day of the week that you choose to run. Also the idea that one day is more holy than another is false .....all days are the same and thus all days are holy or not depending on your outlook....in other words God does not jsut become special on a sunday ....God is always present and it is how we live each day that matters....in terms of we 'suffer' the consequences of our choices. Perhaps a different angle is to ask is it really self-caring, self-loving to put the body through such a prolonged period of non-gentle exercise with all the stress and strain that goes with running a marathon?? It doesn't matter what day you run the marathon on .....question is ....should you really be running one at all ????
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Comment number 7.
At 8th May 2010, John Wright wrote:Hahaha! I was with you until you tried to make a moral case against marathons Eunice! :-)
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Comment number 8.
At 8th May 2010, Eunice wrote:John - it is not a moral case - morality does not come into it .....it is a simple and self-evident truth that running a marathon is not a self-loving thing to do .....and energetically is very harming ....there is no judgment on whether people do or dont run marathons .....i'm just putting the question is it really a self-caring form of exercise....and then for each person to choose whether to abuse the body in that way or not.... :-)
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Comment number 9.
At 24th May 2010, alaninbelfast wrote:The whole Christian church reaction to moving the marathon eventually wore a whole in my heart and I did about it.
The church comes across as self-obsessed with its own comfort rather than being outward looking. And there's a certain hypocrisy that the Church of Ireland put out a press release to celebrate a bishop running the London Marathon in 2009 to raise funds and then Bishop Miller criticised the possible move in 2010!
And there's more on the blog!
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