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Ironic that Europe is actually becoming more and more secular, and within Turkey there is a very strong secular movement (albeit up against some rather scary Islamic fundamentalism, quite aside from the hilarious antics of the creationist Adnan Okhtar, aka Harun Yahya). These are interesting dynamics, and it will be fun to see how it all turns out, but I see this as a shot across the bows of the current Turkish government, as well as a message to the Turkish people - a Muslim Ottoman empire is not coming back.

Not much of a politician if he hasn't figured out Turkey is a secular democracy, not an Islamic one.

He attended the Catholic University of Leuven so he will no doubt have the advice of the infallible pope!
Considering the Catholic church is a politcal entity, as well as a religious one - can we asssume he will make infallible decisions?


-J

Hmmm. It does seem that the arbitrary and facile opinions of the head of state of a non-EU country are given undue prominence in the decision-making process at the highest level of the EU.

[I am kidding - I have many colleagues who went to or work at Catholic University of Leuven, and many of them think the pope is not exactly relevant]

Indeed;

I can't believe we've got to the stage where the "catholicism" of leuven leaves it open to criticism, considering its extremely high standing in world academia.

bernie, I agree. It is a very fine university with a first-rate research record, and I won't hear a word said against it. Hey, maybe we shouldn't be labelling it as a Catholic University, and let it grow up and decide for itself! ;-)

Alienation and demonization of "the other" based on religious differences, the proclamation of the despised outcast, the dehumanization of the alien rather than trying to find and build on common ground to bring him to your point of view through entirely rational process with the promise of a carrot instead of a stick as an ultimate reward. Perhaps the EU shold consider another round of Crusades to convert the heathens by forcing them to see the light of Jesus. It all sounds very Christian to me.

Surely the values that should be most important regarding membership are those of democracy, free and fair elections, freedom of expression, freedom of religious worship, the rule of law, respect for individual rights and freedom, and so on, not some vague waffle about Christian values.

Turkey is constitutionally a secular state and the last time I looked at a map part of it lies in the Balkan region of south-eastern Europe.

At this rate all we need is a return to schism and conflict between Protestants and Catholics as to what exactly those Christian values are and we'll be back in the Medieval period.

The problem is that democracy has become blurred by EU socialists - the same thing is happening in the US.
Democracy is only as good as the majority are - remember Hitler?
I would rather be free to do what I consider helpful, and good to society, not to have some regulation telling me I must act in a certain manner.

How can we have free and fair elections when there is nothing free or fair about the EU - their own elections have achieved cultic status on power with the masonic lodge - the problem is they are very dangerous! - I get the impression we are only free as long as we agree with the EU.
Look how Ireland were forced to sign the lisbon treaty

We have copied the US model - the likes of the Rockerfellas who funded the womens liberation not because they wanted equality - but rather they wanted to double the taxes and a chance to erode the family unit.

Catholicism, and socialism is what makes up Herman's government - he does want to get rid of all flags though - not sure how the football teams/paisley/adams will react to that bill.

Iron and clay don't mix - stand back and watch the show gentlemen it's going to get bloody.
If we fail to learn the leasons of History we are sure to make the same mistakes.


-J

Its about time that someone stood up and told the truth.

unclejanet

Don't blame Europe's problems on America. Europe has always had a penchant for creating its own problems...and then begging America to help it when it can't solve them. This time Europe is on its own. In the end there is no way to save Europe from Europeans.

There is virtually nothing about the way European nations are governed or the way EU governance works that is similar to the way American government works. It seems to me that few if any in Europe even understand the underlying principles that structure American government. For example, one principle is the decentralization and fracturing of power to the greatest extent possible to prevent its concentration in relatively few people. In Europe exactly the oppposite is true and always was.

Ok Markie lets look at some camparisons, we now have a EU president - sounds US to me, we also have the forced cohesion of diverse nationalities and religions - Major Nidal Malik Hasan is a good example of that.
The other comparison is the US have a small minority of groups ruling the nation - the federal reserve, CFC, Rothchilds, and the Rockerfells to name but a few.

The EU and US are very much alike in that it is the powerful ruling the weak - and what Joe public thinks is freedom is really slavery.
The working of EU/US govermechanics may differ but they are both socialism veiled as democracy.

-J

UncleJanet;

It doesn't surprise me that you are so bewildered by the vast difference between the US and the EU. You seem to have a lot of confusion about your own gender. Why not try to straighten the small things out in your mind before you tackle the larger issues.

Or coure Herman the Chairman had a hand in bringing in abortion into Belgium so I don't think the secularists need worry too much about his Catholicism.

Markie I thought there was more substance to you than ad hominem.

-J