91Èȱ¬

I'm not so sure that the concept of a 'christian prison' is the only story here. In many ways the report comes as close to an explanation of what we might call the gospel as anything I have heard.

Those who are guilty are forgiven, that absolution forms the basis of their interactions with their community, and while they are still 'serving time' they speak like freemen and with a hope that shames most of us.

The question I found myself asking was, do I identify with the guilty who celebrate forgiveness, or do I presume myself innocent and find forgiveness hard to come by?

Peter a news reporter's idea of a story is different to your idea. Your idea is a homily illustration. The real story i think is whether the government can get over its aversion to religious agencies and realise that church initiatives like this can help society greatly.

Augustine

I'm not so sure it can be limited to an illustration.

These are real people who have committed real crimes and who are extending real forgiveness to one another. I entirely take the point about church initiatives contributing positively to society but I would still suggest that it is the change in the lives and the outlook of these prisoners which, to some degree at least, has enabled the prison to run as it does.

And it leaves the question is there anything real about either the 'crimes' I commit or the forgiveness I extent to others.

Surely a point is that the gospel is more than an illustration, indeed if it is only an illustration, then maybe it isn't the gospel. And in the end is it not the gospel which is driving this particular experiment?

Sounds like the Inquisition to me. As one of the tools of persuasion will they use the rack? So child molesters could become converted, serve their time and get out, become priests or ministers, and then go right back to sexually molesting children with the protection of the Church the way it happened among Catholics and probably a lot of other religions in the US. Good plan.

To be honest the idea horrifies me. Should there be Islamic prisons for Muslims and Gay prisons for homosexuals?

I wonder how many conversions arose from genuine repentance and how many from a selfish if totally understandable preference for a humane regime. The rate of recidivism does not speak of a particularly transformational gospel.

Portwyn

I don't recall hearing any particular rates of recidivism being mentioned in the 91Èȱ¬ report linked above other than the reoffending rate being lower. Maybe I missed it.

But here's a question, how many of us do actually genuinely repent?

Yes I totally expect the gospel to be transformational, but I understand this to be a process, and often true repentance and true righteousness have to be learned. Anyway I think I would say that true repentance is a result of grace.

Genuine repentance is not something I trust myself to do.

Peter, from memory the recidivism rate in the Evangelical-run prisons was about 6% lower than the norm but Dr Burnside pointed out that this was not statistically significant. Mr Porteous Wood noted, too, that there were factors such as the more compliant nature of most of the Christian prisoners which would be expected to impact favourably on the statistic.

If I am honest the sins in my own life which bother me most are sins of omission rather than commission - I don't really think I have done a lot of which I need to be ashamed but I regret intensely many opportunities to do right that I have missed and the compromises I make daily which mean I do not yet lead the life I would like. I agree that transformation is a process and in my case it is very much work in progress!

I seem to recollect Republican prisoners complaining during the Troubles that their church did not have an equivalent to the Protestant conversion process earning those professing salvation not just eternal life but brownie points on their remission review statements. There are many outside prisons who call on the name of the Lord for business, social or other non-spiritual reasons - I can't think any new generation of prisons would be any different and I do not think there is a place in the penal system for institutionalised religious preferential treatment.

During the troubles a lot of the professors of these jail-house conversions were just pathological attention seekers. This enabled them to get two bites at the cherry. In their youth they could be the hard man, intimidating, murdering and maiming at will, and then when caught and incarcerated, see the light, get remission and spend the next few years touring the mission halls telling everyone how bad they had been! I remember seeing a notice advertising one of the shankhill butchers(basher bates i think) featuring in a shankhill rd mission hall. A great example for the next generation of would-be paramilitaries coming through!

See, nobody knew that the road to Damascus lead through Argentina until now.