91Èȱ¬

Another view on this (see also #14) given what I've tried to summarise/explicate over many months here.

It looks like Brown and his Corporate Nazi puppet politicians have delivered just what their stock market parasite masters ordered at the G20. Mining shares gone ballistic, plenty of opportunities to invent yet even more false money to perpetuate the global financial problem. More money for the IMF so more opportunity for the Corporate Multinational Cartel to embezzle funds via corrupt third world country leaders.

Not much on the alleged commitment to clamp down on tax havens or effective international regulation. Welfare State for the stock market parasites with little or no corporate responsibilities. The less well off will end up paying for it all with inflation despite attempts to knobble the statistics.

1. In a rolling agenda 91Èȱ¬ want to 'licence fee' access to the web? They put content up then whinge people watch it? They should put their content behind a login screen so only licence payers can biew it? rather than to try to 'licence fee' computers etc.

2.Israel says no to two sate solution. at least they are not pretending anymore.

3. Andrew Marr libel case. Which kind of fits in with the title of the book?

Nos3

"1. In a rolling agenda 91Èȱ¬ want to 'licence fee' access to the web? They put content up then whinge people watch it? They should put their content behind a login screen so only licence payers can biew it? rather than to try to 'licence fee' computers etc."

Right on Dano

Gavin Esler, lighten up, look on the bright side of life; this crisis may start to actually change for the better.

Gordon Brown's role in the G20 London Summit has been magnificent. Let's have positive contributions not negative or are you just content to wallow in bad news only and pessimism.

Come on Gavin you and you colleagues need to wake up and smell the coffee!

I have just heard Mandelson on Channel 4 get away with "you know what the problem with AIG was in France and the UK - the regulators".

Jon Snow must have been distracted as they set up the regulatory regime and encouraged light touch regulation - as the FSA chair said?

Don't let them get away with it.

#1 Jaded_jean

"given what I've tried to summarise/explicate over many months here."

You have explained your desire for Hitler style planned economies and race "realism".

The crowds are not going to carry you through the streets to some Nuremburg style rally.

Most people just go for the natural prunes or other fibre.

My #6 seems to have been pulled so as I can't see any issues with it:

Mandelson seemed to be claiming on Channel 4 News that AIG problems were because they were regulated in France and did a lot of work in the UK. He then said the regulators should have been more intrusive.

My obvious point, and sadly Jon Snow did not pick up on the issue I think , was that they set up the regulators and encouraged the light touch regulation.

Did the FSA chair not say something like that to a select committee?

Did the BoE not say something similar?

Roger2009 (#5) "Gavin Esler, lighten up, look on the bright side of life; this crisis may start to actually change for the better."

If normal people respond with concern or anxiety it is often because they're privy to what's going on when others are not. I suggest you use other people's behavioural responses in conjunction with what else you see and hear rather than advising them to behave like happy idiots because that's nice.

Consider whether taxpayers money is now being drawn upon by Socialist Internationalists in lieu of money from private investors, that's all. It's a way of socialising risk for private companies now that securitization has been blown out of the water as a toxic scam.

Think of how you 'help the environment' by turning your kitchen into a waste pre-processing factory on behalf of your local government which does a deal with the purchaser so they can fund some benefits for themselves or some daft employment scheme for otherwise unemployable progeny of cheap labourers who aree 'good for the economy' (aka easy debt slaves/New Labour voters).

#1 Jaded_jean

Most people just explain - but you "explicate". Do you seek to "explicate" televisually the quintessential fact that you are a race "realist"?

You have tried for many months to propagandize the page and your fellow far right posters have clustered in behind you.

I don't see any progress as your "intellectual" case is idiotic and risible and your information strategy borders on the lunatic. Hitler is despised throughout Europe.

Genetic variation is greater with a race than between races. Fact.

There is no basis for your hideous race "realism".

People with a similar view to you - the BNP - muster a few hundred people at their party conference in a field. I gather there are normally almost as many protesters as the BNP are reviled throughout the land.

thegangofone (#7) "You have explained your desire for Hitler style planned economies and race "realism"."

What are you talking about? Hitler was trying to reverse a below replacement level of fertility in Germany after WWI. He was also trying to get the country out of an economic crisis. Guess how that came about? I suspect the reason why we are hearing so much about what must not be repeated again is because those who fomented this crisis are now terrified that the general public will see it for what it is and vote the same way that Germany did in the 30s. What we see happening now is International 'Socialism' fighting to keep nationalism at bay. Are they right? Or are they just going to fund more of what's been happening, but this time using public taxes instead of private investment, which is now drying up through a) differential and dysgenic fertilty and b) the growth of Muslim populations which are anti-usury and capitalism?

I fear that is all too sophisticated for you to grasp.

Watch very carefully, look at who the chief researcher is advising, look into what ETS measures every year nationally, and try to grasp what you're being told instead of clinging to your naive, adolescent-like, false, ideas and continuing to post nonsense to this blog.

These are facts, and the above material is from February 2007, some of the rest of us were warning about these dynamics for years before that.

There are large numbers of people who have impaired cognitive abilities. They are the ones who can not grasp any of this. You keep appealng to them as your peers.

Ask yourself why.

Well they have gone and done it, (as Charlton Heston once observed while kneeling down on a beach).

Which is why I haven't bothered with the Newsnight blog as no one on Newsnight seems to understand how the real operates, (that outside of the political-media-economic bubble of fantasy they live in).

The economic system is a sub set of the social system which is a sub set of the planetary ecological system.

The G20 seem to have decided to increase consumption to stimulate growth in the economic system.

This will destabilize the planetary ecological system and kill 6 billion or more people. Starting in 3 1/2 years, not 100 months as Prince Charles has pointed out.

No one seems to be really bothered. Least of all Newsnight.

Celtic Lion

OBAMA-HOORAMA ALL THE WAY

Gavin - what are you saying! That nice Mr Obama says G20 was 'historic' that surely means er, well it sort of um, tells us that erm, its historic - doesn't it?

After all, he is tall, has a booming voice, does rhetorical oratory, and has good teeth with which he smiles a lot - how could you doubt a man of such credentials.

You are surely not going to take any notice of his 'interesting' (and expensive) path to the Whitehouse - are you? That would be churlish. And don't go printing out the transcripts, or asking who wrote those fine flowing flourishes - that way lies madness.

It's Obama-Hoorama all the way. Let's build a New Jerusalem - it will confuse the Jews, if nothing else!

No one seems to have made comment on the 91Èȱ¬'s coverage of the G20 it was hilarious.

Yesterday the 91Èȱ¬ had this big build up for the Merkel /Sarkozy press conference.

Merkell started speaking unfortuately the 91Èȱ¬ had forgotten she spoke in German and had no translation and had to cut away.

They then went back for Sarkozy. This time they had a translator. German I believe.

While SKY had realised and had the correct translation feeds for both.

Today Emily said they were going to a Gordon Brown live press conference. They commented on it for 5 minutes then realised it was a recording or something from earlier on, which wasn't a press conference. So went back to Emily.

Brilliant television.

#10 Gof1:
From your previous posts it would seem that you include me in what you refer to, cynically, as a race 'realists', although I have previously pointed out that I am married (happily) to an Asian and worked most of my life for 'developing' countries.

I suggest you try spending a day at an Immigration Appeal Hearing in Taylor House, London (and other locations) to witness the massive expense and folly of UK immigration - race realism in action.

I recently had to attend - to appeal against a refusal to allow a STUDENT visa for one of my wife's relatives, who I wish to employ - in her own country. Genuine English folk (the term British is meaningless) should surely have the right to sponsor such relatives to study for international qualifications in UK.

However, of the 500+ crowd at the Tribunal, mine was the only white face; the 91Èȱ¬ Office did not challenge the appeal grounds I submitted in September; did not bother to turn up at the Full Hearing; yet still we had to wait over half a year before my appeal was granted: and we still await the student visa.

Amongst the typical appeals heard while I waited, was that of a foreign-born women who had been in UK for some 10 years but still had an interpreter (foreign-born), a solicitor (foreign-born), an assisting officer (foreign-born), and a Judge (foreign-born) to hear her case - to bring in a son for 2 years "to look for work here"!

This charade must be costing taxpayers a huge amount in administration and legal aid and is, itself, a major source of employment for all those foreign-born advisers and staff pocketing legal fees and expenses, whilst encouraging their foreign-born clients to exploit the system.

Race realism, to me, is not being so keen to import non-invited, non-sponsored immigrants to overwhelm our cultures whilst (as the head of Immigration Advisory Service has admitted) disadvantaging indigenous citizens such as myself, who wish to sponsor and finance overseas relatives to study in UK and return more able to benefit their own countries?

All will be well.

barrrie (#13) "It's Obama-Hoorama all the way. Let's build a New Jerusalem - it will confuse the Jews, if nothing else!"

Hang on barrie, it was made pretty clear during the campaign that his campaign team was almost to a man Jewish including his Communications Director, so is his current Chief of Staff. Presumably, they're writing his speeches or at least, overseeing them?

what irked me today was hearing Michelle Obama say that she is an example of how anyone can rise to a position like hers. But she studied sociology and Black Studies and I understand Obama took the Civil Rights law route too.

One of the things I keep trying to get thegangofone to grasp is that there are a large number of professional researchers who have spent their lives trying to develop programs or find evidence that attainment can be raised and trying to remove the Black-White (and other) gaps (e.g sex differences), but they have failed.

What thegangofone and other like him do not seem to have grasped is that this is why they are race-realists!!!

If only you had invited an academic on to the programme to discuss/explain the implications of the G20 agreement. But all you could give us was self-interested Mandelson and Soros. What on earth has led you to suppose that the public might value their opinions?

#12 & 14 Ah good evening Celtic Lion, I'm pleased to see you're still alive! ; )

I'm waiting to see how all this G20 hype turns out! I'm particularly interested in the printing new money aspect, hhhmmm who else has done just that hhhhmmm

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT

The stock market has not been gong anwhere positive in recent years, so many investors have becmae disenchanted with the return in terms of capital growth. Instead up until qyuite recently and the slump, we have seen a lot of short term volatility and shorting. Endowment polices have not done well, neither have pension funds. Then there is the falling indigenous birth rate with smarter people falling in number too because of education x 3 driving differential fertility. To top it all, we have had a 'war on terror' targeting the Muslims who seem to have a quaint aversion to usury and all other things Satanic.

I fear some of our erstwile anarchistic 'leaders' may have now gotten the bright Faustian idea (hissed in their ears no doubt) that they might use tax payers of the future as a source of funds for their madcap PFI/PPP and other investment ventures, simply because they have no say in the matter given that they're not born yet!

Tell me how that isn't so....

DEFINING MOMENTS

All will be well says kashibeyaz. . .

I have just watched Cocky-Locky Lord Mandelson of Dome, laughing his way, nonchalantly, through his interview. 'Crisis what crisis'; one might almost think HIS wealth, home, job and income are secure!
His 'shadow' (think Jung) is Lurky Turky Kenneth Clarke of Tobacco Road (leading to Sickness Riches and Ill-health Wealth). Smug Ken is another dome, of sorts, his ever-forward thrust proclaiming, by default, Tory Values.

Meanwhile James G Brown, world renowned 20:20 visionary, who as Chancellor pulled every devious stunt in the book and got an awful lot wrong, presides over a rush back to TRADE and CONSUMPTION requiring CREDIT and conversion of WORLD RESOURCES to TRASH; being, apparently, the ANSWER to this crisis (en route to ANOTHER FINE MESS).

As an anomalous cherry on top of this amazing confection: (Paul Mason pointed out that) USA and UK support the shut down of tax havens AS THEY WANT THE LOST TAX REVENUE. How does that square with J Gordon conniving at havens for 10 years, and even flogging government buildings to denizens of such dens of iniquity? (As mentioned on NN.)

What is it about Janus Gordon Brown that he always seems to be on two different courses at the same time? Might it be he is clinically 'split' (Jekyll and Hyde)? Coming after Pretty Straight but Messianic Kind of Guy: Tony (45 minutes) Blair, that is all we need!

But mustn't grumble - I gather all will be well.

Barrie

"requiring CREDIT and conversion of WORLD RESOURCES to TRASH; being, apparently, the ANSWER to this crisis (en route to ANOTHER FINE MESS). "

That is all they have done, why do the media even bother giving them air time?

#21 Very nicely summed up Barrie! Just why is Mandy so smug, I can never see why!

#17 Jean I would like to say more about your comment..

what irked me today was hearing Michelle Obama say that she is an example of how anyone can rise to a position like hers. But she studied sociology and Black Studies and I understand Obama took the Civil Rights law route too.

But I'm worried the mods would ban me. The only thing I can say is why weren't all girls in this country included in her meeting with them, why does she specialise in the race issue all the time. As everyone keeps saying about Obama, he is half white, isn't it racist to keep plugging his blackness?! And come to that why is it so important to keep mentioning colour? It should just be on one's ability and not racial orientation!

ecolizzy (#24) Is it because this is what politics has come to today? The ethnic/race card/issue is played everywhere, and it's played affirmatively in an insidious way as I see it, but if one dares to point out the unrepresentativeness of this, one risks 'offending' people (which is very convenient if you think about it as this is its covert modus operandi).

For example. Take Newsnight last night. What does Gavin, Soros, two of The Panel (strangely always really singing from the same hymn sheet but appearing to be politically different, but look into who the third, the female works for) and Mandleson share in common. I quite enjoy Gavin's turns at presenting (more so than Emily's anyway, who appears to be left-handed like Jon Soper incidentally) but I do think it odd statistically that as they come from a group which only comprises less than half a percent of the UK population (like the bright British Chinese) that they are more than a little over-represented on the 91Èȱ¬'s flagship news and political commentary programme to put it mildly and that some of the issues and the way they are covered may inevitably reflect a group interest. Scientists are trained to look for these things and to ask questions. It worries me that if and when one does, one risks offending. That is anathema to scence and rationality, and that concerns me deeply as it has potentially serious repercussions.

You said that no conservative was available for tonights show??

According to his Blog, this one was:>

THE SATANIC SUBVERSES

As this blog kno, I am white, heterosexual male, and not one jot proud of it. I am also unashamedly 'differencists' - I notice (and react in varying degrees to) difference, preferring some expressions to others.

For example: I prefer justice to law; wisdom to cleverness; learning to schooling; 'procreation to recreation'; integrity to politics.

Some Satanic miasma seems to have seeped into our society, causing us to espouse - even laud - the aberrant, and to elevate individuals who are manipulative and charismatic (an empty attribute). If the 'Antichrist' has an aspect matching the Holy Spirit, it is surely described in that sentence!

There could be no better celebration of our decline, than the synthetic, shallow, self-serving circus that was the G20 Plummet. The frenzy of hugging, patting and stroking (culminating in Obama's constructive hand, on Little Boy Brown's needy shoulder) was a depressing charade. Apparently, as a bonus, to be in the same room as either of the Obamas, is to feel blessed. As

Charlie Brown (no relation) would say: "Good grief - I can't stand it!"

THE GREAT (OF THE SI)?

ecolizzy (#21) "Very nicely summed up Barrie! Just why is Mandy so smug, I can never see why!

Because you see through his spin and lack of substance? You can't pin him down because of the way he spins his nebulous rhetoric of many loopholes...prima facie he ran Gavin ragged last night, but Gavin let's got him to hoist himself by his own narcissism which seems to be Gavin's forte.

As I see it, the more they internationalise, the less they can be held directly accountable by us. That's the name of the game they're playing. They can then parasitically tax-farm to their heart's content and say - "it's not me, it's beyond my control, it's the global government, they're helping to poor, surely you care about others less firtunate then yourself?" Meanwhile, they will be doing very well, their backers will make money out of expanding, low IQ, cheap labour (the poor) 'emerging markets' and the rest will have to pay for any venture capital risk (i.e. socialisation of risk, privatisation of profit being what the Socialist International are up to I suspect) making out it's humanism rather than Satanism incarnate. private capital has been pulled out of t he markets, so gues what is now being piled in? Taxes. And taxes of the future to boot. Is that not kleptocracy? Did we give them a mandate to do any of this?
People need to wake up to this 'clever' scam, concocted through clever PR and market research no doubt. Sadly, I suspect the other parties are a dead loss here, as Barrie so astutely keeps saying, they are just wearing different coloured rosettes. Many of them just won't see this because of their rose-coloured spectacles. Seeing it as it really is amounts to a very ugly scene indeed, which takes us back to self-moderation aka censorship inducing electoral passivity.

She put her arm around the Queen!

Your film about Brazil was great but that was not samba, or even Brazilian music for that matter. It was salsa, much much further up the continent. Music is very regionalised in latin america, so you shouldn't just use any generic latino stuff.

nortongriffiths wrote:
If only you had invited an academic on to the programme to discuss/explain the implications of the G20 agreement. But all you could give us was self-interested Mandelson and Soros. What on earth has led you to suppose that the public might value their opinions?

Spot on Norton!

Gordon 'The fight back' - against his own stupidity that got us here? I wonder who will win?

everyone agrees market fundamentalism is over yet the govt still pursue it in every area of policy from pfi to outsourcing to essential utilities [which is why domestic energy prices never came down much?].

the bit regarding economics in the film 'The Trap' showed what happens with market fundamentalism. So it was no secret. Yet people said they did not know what would happen.

which means where that thinking is still being used in govt ie public services may too end blowing up?

that anglo saxon slogan again -sloppy thinking and misleading and based on a race based mindset [which is why journos like to use it?]. better to call it market fundamentalism.

at least no one mentioned the special relationship

27 Barrie

I was wondering whether you were compiling the "Ushering League Table" while the G20 was on.

Obama even ushered Brown inside Downing Street. Surely we need an ushering ref who can show the red card when needed. Or just declare offside or a forward pass.

Well I have just seen the Obama NATO press conference. He was referring to America's first and strong ally.

France

At least the 91Èȱ¬ have a translator this time.

#24 ecolizzy

Give me a break!

Most people aren't race "realists" who feel "that some of us came out of Africa but some got left behind".

The Obama's very clearly did not get "left behind".

You people adhere to an ideology that dare not speak its name - but you like Hitler style planned economies; hazy about the Holocaust etc etc

Nobody who has seen the far right posts will see you people as unprejudiced.

#28 Jaded_jean

"the less they can be held directly accountable by us"

You really don't grasp at all how unpopular and derided you are and how flawed that statement is.

There is no "us" - 99.9% of the UK like democracy and freedom and equality and we are happy as a multicultural society.

If you don't want democracy but do want Hitler style planned economies and race "realist" policies then nobody is going to buy your views on accountability in the political process.

BROWNWATCH

Is there a body-language expert in the house? Brown's disastrous Muttley smile seems to have been discarded, at the G20, in favour of the 'Voila hand'.

Every time James G Brown realises the camera is upon him, he seems driven to enact that fingers-closed-hand-forward-palm-up-thumb-out, ushering? deferential? or whatever, gesture. Is it a dominance thing: dispensing largess from the fount of all?

What is this strange bundle of mannerisms doing, lording it over this country? What a strange world, where the OVERTLY flawed, immature and needy, strive to reach high office - and we let them succeed.

The media seem to think Brown performed well; I suppose they see 91Èȱ¬r Simpson as a model husband. . .

I am no security expert and I don't even know if they are meeting at the European Parliament in Strasbourg but its an absolute warren of passageways and entrances. It must be a real nightmare for those in charge.

Then again the French are not stupid and they will probably go into overkill due to the terrorist aspect.

JJ #29

Betty started it!

#27 barriesingleton

I am surprised that you race "realist", Holocaust agnostics and adherers to a Hitler style planned economy should even have a view on good and evil.

I thought that stuff was all "illusion/confusion" to you.

Fortunately for most people who log on here the idea of a racially pure Nuremburg rally that has been carefully stage managed does not appeal.

You "can't stand it!" - 99.9% of the UK can't stand your ideas and thats why you will happily remain a total irrelevance.

Excellent!

#28 Jean

People need to wake up to this 'clever' scam, concocted through clever PR and market research no doubt. Sadly, I suspect the other parties are a dead loss here, as Barrie so astutely keeps saying, they are just wearing different coloured rosettes. Many of them just won't see this because of their rose-coloured spectacles. Seeing it as it really is amounts to a very ugly scene indeed, which takes us back to self-moderation aka censorship inducing electoral passivity.

Oh Jean how I agree with what you say here! Everyone I speak to about politics isn't watching, listening or reading any news! They say it is so depressing, and what can anyone do about it anyway ugh! They just watch all the light trash, and know who all the celebreties are! : ( That's if they are not reading some novel, and living in la la land. About the only person who seems to get all this and worry about it is my 90 year old mother. She's always saying "we're all doomed, doomed, I tell you", which does make me smile, but is probably true. She has seen it all!

Go1, #34, #35, #39

Can I quote to you regarding house rules?

"We reserve the right to fail messages which

Are considered likely to disrupt, provoke, attack or offend others"

Go number one
There is no "us" - 99.9% of the UK like democracy and freedom and equality and we are happy as a multicultural society.

Hhhhmmm so why do 78% of Britons want unemployed immigrants to go back to their country of origin?



Also Mr Go why don't you ever put any links up to help prove your theories as other posters do?

ecolizzy (#40) 'With age/experience comes wisdom' (see Barrie). Although I'm no fan of Chomsky (I think he takes other people's work and translates, and I'm wary of anarchists generally), his was quite good, but Skinner's 'Beyond Freedom and Dignity' was more to the point (Skinner rebuked Chomsky in 'On Having a Poem' which used to be available on the web as a 1hr audio)

I wish I knew how to get through to people like thegangofone who continue to peddle harm whilst making out that they're humanists. It alwas seems to me that there are those in life who never question their assumptions or where their assumptions have come from, but naively believe that whatever they say is true rather than mere logical inferences from their unquestioned premises. That, ability, I think, differentiates those who are educable, from those who are not.

If our Liberal-Democratic populations keep deteriorating as they currently are, we will have even more uncritical consumers being preyed upon by 'heartless' predators.

Your mother is right.

The G20 summit has guaranteed one trillion dollar boost.

Ecolizzy #41

No good asking Go1 questions, he will never respond and certainly never provides any evidence to back up his outlandish claims. He's a hit and run artist. Runs in, throws a few rotten eggs and runs away again. He's there to cause confusion. He is wrong in almost every respect and yet believes himself infallible. JJ has his number spot on. I am constantly amazed at JJ's patience.

mademoiselle_h (#44) "where do the rest of 960 billion stimulus package come from? In what form?"

Unborn taxpayers?

Alternatively, see the post-mortem in Stephanie Flanders' blog.

'Is it time to stop kicking bankers?' you ask.
Should we perhaps be arguing that since
G20 is over it is time for 91Èȱ¬ Secretary
Jacqui Smith to spend more time with
her husband and home entertainment
centre; for McNulty to spend more time
with his parents; Balls to get out his
squeegee mop to clear up his college
funding mess; ie business as usual??

Of course not! All these stories that were buried earlier in the week still need to be
dug over - and Lord Myners is still in post.
What are they saying about the pension
paid to Sir Fred at today's RBS meeting?

And what's all this about the police in
Israel interviewing their new Foreign
Minister for the second time in his first
3 days in office ?

But also looking forward to your reports on NATO. Apparently the Turkish PM has said
they are opposed to Danish PM Rasmussen taking over as NATO Secretary-General due
to Islamic objections to the Danish cartoons.

But what we really want to hear about is the rapport between Barack and Sarko -
they've gone walkabout in Strasbourg,
and Obama is telling the French that
the G20 accord would never have been possible without the French ...............!!

A day is a long time in politics is it not?!
And Michelle and Carla looked stunning:

"Is it time to stop kicking bankers?"

It would be good to have some of your staff investigate who the big (property business and other commercial) borrowers were in the context of PPP/PFI.

What a fiasco Newsnight was last evening (Thursday). Mandelson rang rings round Gavin and completely controlled the programme. Was this by design or was Gavin just totally incompetent? A pity we hadn't had an impartial commentator - an economist or such - on to balance things out. All we had was a labour party mouthpiece given free rein. Grim.

Obama and Gordon did not answer Nick Robinson's first question as to why the rest of the world blamed them for the chaos but they both chose the 'wasn't me guv' option, they preferred to 'move on' and lets look forward, not back' etc., why do we let them get away with it? Brown may have just pulled it off... I mean, where was Cameron? He was watching it all on the telly!

leftieoddbod (#51) ".. why do we let them get away with it?

Astutely put, but those who write their speeches have done their calculations allowing the public a time of outrage and then it's return to business as usual, as their backers still have money to make. After all, that's what they've paid for. Look at Lord Myners behaviour before the Treasury Select Committee.

People have to see this for what it is. The public are these leaders' means to get power but they are there to serve the people who really put them there. Sadly, those people, and the public, are not coterminus in our corrupt Liberal-Democracies. That's not cynicism.

Listening to Kirsty Walk on Newsnight tonight, as I suspected, we just heard how Neo-Liberal 'Human Rights' are being used in order to politically undermine Islam and other non Liberal-Democratic politics, just as they were used by NGOs to try to undermine Iran, the USSR, the PRC etc. All highly emotional, no detaiuled coverage of the law etc, so no rational coverage by Newsnight staff at all - definitely no rational 'debate'.

Anyone disagree?

Des Brown, at least, tried to talk some sense to Kirsty.......

Our Liberal-Democratic, very modern, values, are driving us towards short-term hedonism/consumerism at the expense of population replacement.

Do people such as Kirsty Walk really not see the modus operandi and its dire consequences? If not, can someone please take her aside and spell these out to her?

ANGLE GRINDER (#53)

"Listening to Kirsty Walk on Newsnight tonight

Anyone disagree?"

Knowing your penchant for accuracy JJ, I must point out that one HEARS Kirsty (for as long as tolerance allows) rather than LISTENING TO her.

When the builders move in next door, we HEAR the concrete mixer but do not listen to it. (;o)

you cannot tell Kirsty anything.....she is the one who tells people

#54, #55

Thanks for those :-)

Don't you just hate the way things have gone?