91Èȱ¬

"We'll hear from......Jenni Murray about how our culture deals with the disease"

Perhaps that should be "Our colleague Jenni Murray, who has a degree in French and History from Hull, will give us her inexpert opinion on how our culture deals with the disease".

After losing two family members to cancer in the past 3 weeks this programme is very timely for me.

I'm not sure what point nortongriffiths is trying to make. As someone who has survived cancer I think Jennie Murray is very experienced to talk about the human impact of the disease.

big C again...turn off material

"And have you or someone in your family been affected by cancer?"

You said 1/3 develop it!

"tell us your reaction to the word cancer here."

Oooo eerrrrr ............is this a fund-raiser?

Why don't you cover something else?

1) Working as a Somali Pirate appears to be a nice little earner, why not invite a few of those on?

2) You could ask a few more Italians what it feels like to have a house fall in on one?

Is Blair in touch with reality?

The man who championed light touch regulation and helped engineer the biggest financial catastrophe since the Wall St Crash with zillions of toxic assets still unidentified and unquantified wants to be President of Europe?

This in the week that its reported:

' The government may have to find an extra £39bn a year by 2016 to bring borrowing under control, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) says.

This is on top of the £38bn of fiscal tightening the chancellor announced in the pre-Budget report (PBR). '

Probably he will slot in bringing peace to the Middle East in the next few weeks.

Could there be a worse time and a worse candidate - I assume he is thinking President of Europe - but not by popular election.

Do Labour's men in grey suits carry emergency "butterfly nets" to catch run aways?

There was me thinking there would be a cull of "the usual suspects" after Labour lose the next election.

P.S. 99.9% of the public would prefer a poor democratic candidate than to give up their freedoms to the tyranny of the far right so the goose stepping posters who frequent this page should take no heart.

#4; sociopathic tendencies rear their ugly genes once more.

The "curate's egg" syndrome which affects the NHS in so many aspects of care is clearly evident in the great variance shown in the approach taken to cancer across SHAs and PCTs; what conclusions can Newsnight draw regarding the NHS being "good in parts"?

Is it simply a case of the varying degrees of local/regional leadership practised?

Why is there such a wide spectrum of experience displayed in your postings on cancer?

I do hope the experiences articulated are referred to during the programme.

thegangofone (#5) "The government may have to find an extra £39bn a year by 2016 to bring borrowing under control, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) says."

Does that surreptitiously reduce to P squared?

Harold Varmus - I'm sure his well boned up on the subject but I cant help having difficulty taking any man seriously who has a comb - over.

Surely an early stage diagnosis and identification of type of cancer will give a good indication of how things will develop, sorry I just don't buy his thinking on that, but then what do I know.

'In 2002, a US immigration judge ruled that there was enough evidence to prove Mr Demjanjuk had been a guard at several Nazi death camps and stripped him of his citizenship.

German authorities now say they have new evidence linking him to the crimes of which he has been accused. '

I suppose there will be a queue of the "race realists" who post on this page offering to go to the trial as expert witnesses as there "is little evidence that there was a Holocaust"?

No of course not.

#4 jaded_jean

You really don't have to emphasize your personality as its been apparent to a lot of people for a long time.

Do you see the children who are alleged to have tortured those other children near Doncaster as good recruitment material for the future in your cause?

The BNP, nothing to do with you of course, have a bouncy castle available.

But lets hope that these children can be treated and reformed and returned into a caring society at some point.

thegangofone (#10) Try to work out how negative-reinforcement, social-desirability and decadence/dysgenesis are perniciously and functionally related.

JadedJean # 4

I suppose that there is a even chance that tonight's Newsnight will metamorphosis' into a feature length advert for the corporate multinational drug peddlers. No doubt the stock market parasites will be rubbing their hands together on the prospect of more people taking out specific cancer insurance. A boost for the latest health craze as advertised on freeview, full health MOT including things like MRI scans in fancy new purpose built private hospitals.

If you die after seventy you die of " Old Age ", strip out the over seventies from the cancer statistics and perhaps cancer rates don't look so bad. Cancer is not a new problem, take R J Mitchell the designer of the Spitfire, he died at a relatively young age from " cancer " in the 1930s.

I am very lucky, because i had a brother who would raise money for Cancer Research in the 1970's by knocking on doors. i was very young then. He introduced me to this charity.
11 years ago my life changed again. We had to say goodbye to my mum, as she developed a rare form of cancer. We believe in recarnation and that has kept me strong throughout my journey. All my angels are with me on earth.
I have the biggest race of my life in twenty days and i am proud to represent my charity Cancer Research. As a girl i would be fixed to the telly to watch the London Marathon, and yes dreams do come true!

#11; try to work out how Quinean kladderadatsch, Lysenkoist codswallop and eugenics/fascism are pseudo-scientifically peddled by some gene pools posting here.

#12; Geoffrey Howe did a better job of rousing rabble.

Channel 4 yet again trumps Newsnight with a well-explained, impartial account of Nato and US strategy in Afghanistan, replete with on-camera interviews with soldiers, officers and commanders who were there at various times.

Fascinating to hear the change in British objectives in three years - politically - compared with the consistent approach of the military. No wonder everyone, including President Obama, has wondered why we are fighting there.

This is the type of "package" that made Newsnight famous once; any chance of back to the future?

Brossen99 (#12) Here's one reason to keep the facts about genes, risks, and gene-barriers quiet if you're a member of a small, minority population.

Say you know your group's at much higher risk for a genetic disease than other groups, but want research funding to help identify and treat the disease early, sell books, fund general research for your people, sell insurance etc. It will pay to make out that there are no significant group differences for the risk. In fact, launch PR campaigns with books, ribbons, T-shirts, merchandise, foundations, etc etc asking for donations from the general population, and a you stand to do very well all round... so long as you know how to obfuscate.

kashibeyaz (#14) "try to work out how Quinean kladderadatsch, Lysenkoist codswallop and eugenics/fascism are pseudo-scientifically peddled by some gene pools posting here."

Some probably wonder why you persistently humiliate yourself in this manner whilst others learn from their errors.

Breast Cancer
Breast Cancer
Breast Cancer

Don't men ever get cancer?

Clearly not.

What did Newsnight give us? ...

Jenny Murray - on breast cancer
A breast cancer specialist
Ronan Keating on his mother dying from breast cancer

And yet, and yet, MORE MEN die from cancer than women.

'IT'S THE TOBACCO THAT COUNTS.' * OR IS IT THE BARONS?'

Hmmmmmm. Your arty montage of cancer-related words (linked thread) seems to have no reference to 'LUNG'.

Yet lung cancer has an almost direct correlation with smoking and (if I heard correctly) is the PRIMARY cause across ALL cancers.

19 Nov 2008: 'Almost 10,000 tobacco and farm workers descended on Brussels to protest against plans to cut back their SUBSIDIES from the European Union.'

British 'soaps' routinely show smoking and the cigarette is usually attractively pristine (not a dog-end).

Tobacco products are legally sold, and revenue accrued, in the UK.

Some House of Commons bars are exempt from workplace smoking law, because 'royal palaces' do not HAVE TO obey the H & S law.

Between the Hippocratic calling and the 'hypocritic' oafs, there is no contest. Tobacco is not being reined-in rationally and pragmatically but - like alcohol - judiciously and profitably, as a rearguard action.

And we worry about DEBT as a legacy to our children! Isn't corrupt governance far worse?

Can we shame them? Yes we can?? You are joking! They probably charge ashtrays (free from tobacco companies) to expenses.

* For any youngsters here: that was an advertising slogan from the days before the truth about cancer got out.

I'm glad that Cancer has been investigated on Newsnight - both from the perspective of Professors/Doctors and sufferers as well as carers. I was shocked to hear that 1 in 3 will suffer from cancer. Perhaps this programme will kick the government into faster referal times - or even adopt the French model of self referals, as waiting times seem to be the biggest stumbling block to effective treatment. Either way - excellent work!

THE LIBERAL-DEMOCRACY LOTTERY

A little thought about statistics in #15 may enlighten those who don't usually think about how the promotion of light-touch regulated Liberal-Democracy can disproportionately, i.e unfairly, benefit minority group interests at the expense of the majority when equality is aggressively pushed and rational inquiry in to diversity politically correctly discouraged.

Imagine a national lottery where your group has a 56% chance of winning a prize but all other groups only 12%. In the long run, who benefits most, and is that a democractic/fair lottery? Now apply that to other campaigns and one begins to see how this capitalises on a lack of dscrimination (i.e intelligent analysis).

Jenni Murray's refusal to engage with violent metaphor in relation to her own cancer and that of others was refreshing. Euphemistic and value-laden, the 'battle' and 'fight' so approvingly attributed to so many with cancer have become glib social shorthand for often uncomfortable truths. We need words, but must they be these? Thank you Jenni for highlighting this.

think i'll give NN a miss today

#22 bookhimdano

Yip, yip, yip.

Take Jaded_jean and barriesingleton with you.

#15 jaded_jean

As ever genetic variation is greater within a race than between races and so there is therefore no scientific basis for your race "realism" and there no support in the scientific community. Mainstream scientists are not "all Jews" and people with a genuine grasp of science do not use phrases like "we all came out of Africa but some got left behind".

Thats because its not true.

Your beef against Jews is totally unhinged as you seem to rely entirely upon Stalin ejecting alleged anarchists and Trotskyites some of whom were Jews in the 1930's.

The suspicion, of course, is that as Hitler masterminded the Holocaust, and you like Hitler style planned economies and dislike those that "paint him darkly", you associate yourself with that hatred on "cult" grounds.

Hence your vague sniping at "minority group interests".

The verbage you produce contradicts the phrase "intelligent analysis" as it is flawed, inaccurate, prejudiced propaganda and so has nothing to do with intelligence.

Go1 #23, #24
I'll quote you hose rules shall I?

"We reserve the right to fail messages which

Are considered likely to disrupt, provoke, attack or offend others"

Your single minded abuse is becoming tiresome to others. Stop being so childish.

The thread here is cancer, if you have nothing constructive to say on the subject I suggest you keep quiet.

At some point can Newsnight relay what the picture is for UK education as the crash impacts.

Some universities rely too heavily on foreign students who may be no shows for a couple of years.

There may be less funding as cuts come in.

Students who were sold the idea of a credit-laden world with plenty of high paying jobs must feel like the weapons inspectors searching for WMD.

#25 newfazer

As ever it is very trite for the far right to talk in such a way. Offending others!

You quite happily will suggest there is "little evidence" that there was a Holocaust. For people who fought the Nazis and suffered at their hands (plenty of examples in the last few weeks on the 91Èȱ¬ web) that is beyond offensive.

You far right posters come out with barely covered race "realist" abuse of Jews and Africans on an almost 24x7 basis.

You are not democratic and people who become upset by those that "paint Hitler darkly for party political reasons" really are in no position to attempt to lecture on acts that you allege "disrupt, provoke, attack or offend others".

You have zero authority and zero credibility.

There is zero chance that I will allow race "realists" to bully me into being quiet.

You are not a moderator.

You are also somebody who might well offer himself as a witness to the Demjanjuk trial as you know "that there is little evidence that the Holocaust happened" therefore you could point out that there were no death camps? There aren't mountains of documents and testimonies and previous trials?

As for abuse I tend to treat people as they treat me. I leave it to the moderators to determine what is beyond the rules.

Its also trite as the far right posters - who are not Nazis or the BNP - tend to "lean" on new posters and therefore attempt to dominate debate.

Childish? Clearly to refute despicable lies and vicious ideas is not childish but a virtual duty for those that seek to preserve democracy in the face of those that would undermine it.

Go1 #27

I'm quite happy to let you go on making a fool of yourself but I think it unfair on other readers to have to put up with your unfounded and off-thread tirades quite so often.

BTW, have you looked up 'trite' in a dictionary lately?

theganofone (#27) "You far right posters come out with barely covered race "realist" abuse of Jews and Africans on an almost 24x7 basis."

The far-right are Libertarians (Anarchists) and Conservatives (closet anarchists) who push for the free-market. They are anti-statists. You are very confused, which is why, as Barrie pointed out, your posts cause many people 'headaches'.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody posting here has abused anyone for being Jewish or African. However, despite what you say, there are phenotypes, genes, risk factors and behaviours which are higher in some groups than in others, and it important that these are clearly understood in the interest of rationality and fairness in democracies (see earlier posts on BRCA1 and CYP21 and NCAH). Disguising or denying well documented risk factors is dishonest, and abusing those who point them out is offensive and thus grounds for criticism. This has been done and that is at least one reason why others are now reprimanding you. They hope to enlighten and educate you even though you have shown yourself to be incorrigible

Perhaps you should thank them for their unfailing patience and efforts to contribute to your education/improve your mental health?

#29 Jaded_jean

Absolute rubbish!

Most people would reasonably assume that remarks such as "we all came out of Africa but lets say some got left behind" is intended as a slur against people from Africa.

Comments such as those indicating that Stalin when he expelled Jews who were Trotskyites and anarchists in the 30's and implying that it "wasn't because they were going to the synagogue" could be deemed offensive.

Mainstream scientists - not hysterical propagandists - who reject your race "realist" rubbish are "all Jews" reveals a lot.

Your love of Hitler style planned economies and your assertion you are neither affirm nor deny the Holocaust - but have previously supplied "statistics" that you assert suggest a lot of Jews survived from the 1930's.

Please. You are a self declared race "realist" who is not a Nazi or the BNP - but would like to see the BNP covered on Newsnight.

Your "unfailing patience" is nought to do with education but an attempt to spread a vile and hideous ideology.

As for those "reprimanding" me they are held in such absolute contempt by me and by the great majority of the British public that that is a compliment in effect.

Generally I simply quote you so that others are sure to see what lies behind the pretense.

Lectures about free speech from those that openly would seek to replace democracy are hollow in the extreme.

#29 Jaded_jean

"However, despite what you say, there are phenotypes, genes, risk factors and behaviours which are higher in some groups than in others, and it important that these are clearly understood in the interest of rationality and fairness in democracies (see earlier posts on BRCA1 and CYP21 and NCAH)"

I recall a geneticist posted on here and confirmed that you were indeed talking rubbish.

Your response was not the detail but to query his reputation.

I have asked a number of times what is your reputation? Are you a qualified doctor?

The bottom line is that genetic variation is greater within a race than between races so to compare races is inherently unsound.

I cannot conceive of a scientist who would turn to such language as "we all came out of Africa but lets say some got left behind".

You race "realists" never come up with the goods do you?

Is Newfazer, who "reprimands" me, going to turn up at at the Demjanuk trial to explain that there is very little evidence that the the Holocaust happened? Not a chance.

The most bizarre thing is that I cannot see that you are affecting the political process one jot as nobody with a genuine education is going to listen to your rot unless they were already indoctrinated - as with some of the other posters on here who are also not the BNP.

Is there no dark place that you all could happily inhabit elsewhere?

Really the Aunty Beeb producers ought to put a stop to this nonsense its been going on for far to long, why is it you don't, its kinda been on my mind ?

Freak show draws in the crowd, NN struggles to get feedback or attention, what is it ?

'LET'S YOU AND HIM FIGHT' (Eric Berne - Games People Play)

Hi SPB! I think 'edgy' might be the key word.
I am pretty sure NN gave up struggling (with excellence) long ago, and is a lost cause. We live in 'interesting times' that, I would guess, approximate to a high-tech fall of Rome.

When the latest world saviour to come out of America, saw fit to deliver a 'healing' inaugural speech that made no mention of the one-time incumbents of that land (now running casinos - if 'lucky') expect the Deluge.

Those whom Newsnight wish to destroy, they first make mad. . .

thegangofone (30;31) It's just basic history and genetics, all easily corroborated by simple searches on the web by anybody. I don't know why you make such a fuss and get so abusive, unless you think you're being ironic/amusing/entertaining. A lot of what you post does make me chuckle, as it really is Pythoneque material at times, especially your remarks about the 'Out of Africa' thesis being offensive.