91Èȱ¬

Ian,

your point about woods putting average does not make sense. The stat is not putts per green, but it is putts per GIR. Therefore, your comment about them being further away because he has hit the green does not make sense.

You're right zoot. Tiger's Putts Per GIR in 2008 and 2009 was 1.74. This year it is 1.78.

Tiger has always been wayward off the tee but it is his chipping that looks much worse to me. Trying things like a closed stance on a short bunker shot at Torrey Pines was just bizarre. His scrambling this year is 64% vs 69% in 2008.

He just isn't playing very well - at the moment.

What's this trading of blows with Haney and Foley ? I've not heard a Dickie from Foley, although Haney can never keep his trap shut.

Strange article....many people are ready to knock tiger but what not many people are mentioning, which amazes me, is that when he won the US Open [on one leg] he was so far ahead in the world rankings that no one could catch him for nearly 18 months!!

Is he playing well...no, is he swinging well, not with a driver at least, but he is still the best golfer in the world because he can afford to change his swing and still compete. Putting will come...he has the stroke and knows what to do so patience....he will be knocking everything within 6ft again.

when it clicks....well, its only a matter of time that he either regains the world no 1 or beats Jack Nicklaus's major record.

I personally feel that he is not bothered about the world no 1 position as he doesn't sound like he is going to have a full schedule any time soon and will probably plan his tournaments around the majors which will set him [and Mickelson] apart from the rest of the pack.

Tiger is no where near the level he and the rest of the world are now finally catching up....but they needed Tiger's fitness and personal problems to catch him!!!

Putting is what separates all the top professional golfers. And because Woods's putting is not so great now he has just become a journeyman pro.

RE: #1 & #2 (zootflame and drewmagoo)

Iain's comments about Tiger's GIR do make sense - he is hitting more GIR and by hitting more than he used too means his average will most likely go up as he is putting from further away than he used too.

RE: #2 (drewmagoo) You can criticise Tiger for using a 'closed stance' for his bunker shot at Torrey Pines... However you maybe are not aware that there is a new technique being taught by PGA pros throughout GB&I and also to some of Ulster's up and coming talent. It is were the stance is slightly closed, clubface open and the club is taken back on the inside swing plane, rather than the outside.

A quote from 2002:

"You know the world has gone mad when the best rapper in the world is white and the best golfer in the world is black."

How times change.

Gbell, it might be a new technique, but it doesn't seem to work! 'New' doesn't always mean better. There was certainly no need for him to change the way he hits bunker shots. Ulster has too much talent anyway, so that's some good news if they're being taught to play bunker shots with a closed stance!

The putts per GIR stat specifically isolates the number of putts taken when a player finds the green in regulation. There is no reason to think that a player would be further away on their GIR just because they hit more; you could actually infer that they might be playing better, therefore, hitting it closer?

Anyway, Tiger is hitting more greens - which suggests that his long game actually isn't too ropey - but isn't holing putts with the regularity he used to. As Iain says though, his best rounds tend to come after he is out of contention, so there certainly have to be doubts about his swing under any pressure.

#5. Sums it up. And putting, above all, depends on nerves, which generally fray with age. Woods's slump seems perfectly natural to me. The truly amazing thing was how he used to putt. He wasn't just the best putter on tour, he was the best putter ever, by far, and was at his best in the biggest situations. It's likely he'll improve somewhat from here, but I don't think he'll ever play the way he used to, because when nerves do creep in, they're very hard to get rid of.

Iain,
Seems everyone is giving you a hard time about the stat's you have constructed your article around, so I'll wade in too.
The only reason Tiger's total driving stat is shown as 192nd in 2010, 191st in 2011, is because he hasn't played enough rounds to be included in that particular stat, and is therefore given a last place ranking.
Actual numbers as follows:
2010: Driving distance: 26th, accuracy 165th, "total driving" if qualified: 94th. (Tied, for instance, with KJ Choi)
2011: Driving distance: 14th, accuracy 191st, "total driving" if qualified: 121st. (Tied, for instance, with Stricker and ahead of Mickelson, Els and the ever-lagging in this stat Luke Donald.)

The essence of your case is sound, it's just the evidence that doesn't add up. Where is 606 when we need it?

Very strange article, again, nothing really to say? Why not an article about Phil Mickleson, who finished absolute last in greens in regulation at Doral? Or Lee Westwood, who'd been just great this year! I think people forget when they talk about Tiger that Lee Westwood was down in the 200s in the world not that long ago. Slipping to fifth isn't that damaging. How many evens has he even played in the last 2 years?

I really thikn Kaymer is overrated as well, especially in terms of his long game. When he won by 8 earlier in the year, he was holing absolutely everything. Evey single putt, from any range. That happens sometimes. If you look at the stats from Doral, if Tiger had holed even 50% of the putts from under 10 feet he missed in the first 3 rounds, he'd have won the tournament.

I'm an unashamed Tiger fan, i'll get that out of the way first. My point is about the commentary on Sky Sports. It's gotten absolutely ridiculous, embarrassing, foolish. I expect it from Ewen Murray and Bruce Critchley, becasue they're terrible commentators. Offensively dull in the first place. But even Peter Osterhouse got in on the act this week. There was one hole in particular that got my back, though I forget which round and which hole. Tiger teed off and flew it 315 into a fairway bunker. Not a marvellous shot, but not the worst shot you've ever seen. The commentators, however, would have you believe it was the worst, most disastrous shot that has ever been hit. Every player in the group missed the fairway, not a single mention of the playing partners. How I wish they'd just give us the American commentary.

Martin Kaymer in his first round missed almost all of the first few fairways, as did Graeme Mcdowell, and all they could talk about was how few weaknesses they have in their games! And they finished...?

I just...don't understand it. Tiger hits a great final round, low round of the day and it's becasue there's no pressure. In the Honda, Mcdowell shooots one decent round to get into the top ten, and it's because he's fantastic.

I'm really tired of it, frankly. *throws toys*

Watching Tiger again at the Tavistock Cup yesterday it's clear that things still aren't right and there are still some fundamental problems with the swing. He had another good round yesterday but I think we're still a way off from seeing Tiger back to his best, if indeed he shall ever get there again.

#3 Foley was interviewed in a golf.com, the contents of which annoyed Haney. Following him on Twitter this past week has been most amusing!

I look forward to watching Tiger again this evening - and we'll see a lot of him as the Sky coverage, taken from the Golf channel is obsessed with him!

This article is hard work. He's has only shot good rounds when not in contention? How about his 2nd round in Dubai? or how about his performance in his own Tournament getting into a playoff? Or how about his demolition of Molinari in the Ryder cup?

What is incredible is that while he is implementing these changes he is still in contention. Last week he finished 10th in the biggest stroke play competition of the year so far. When others have gone into slumps or changed there swings they have gone AWOL completely.

Just be patient with his swing changes and in time things will come together. It is only a matter of time.........

My comment suggesting your driving stat's were utterly erroneous has been taken down.
Simply put, Woods has not played enough events to qualify for total driving stat's, either this year or last.
If he had, he'd be ranked 94th in 2010 and 121st this year.
I repeat, the essence of your point is correct, it's just your evidence that is flawed.

Woods is off his game still, that's for sure, and whether he gets back to his best on a permanent basis is anyone's guess.

I don't quite understand the obsession, and attitude, that British Media figures seem to have towards Woods though. It sounds like they are so desperate for him to not get his game back. I realise he hasn't always been sweetness and light for the hacks in their attempts to get an interview from him, but it certainly seems like there's a certain pleasure in media quarters, at his fall from grace.

You should move on and talk about the players in form.

As if by magic, the British Sky commentators repeat this article almost verbatim. Really, truly awful 'analysis'.

There will always be people here who remember Tiger Woods while wearing their rose coloured glasses.
Whether Tiger is remembered as the greatest golfer remains to be seen.
He has certainly played a lot of his best years in an era devoid of any great champions (perhaps the closest exception being Erie Elis) - unlike Jack Nicklaus who played against Palmer, Player and (late on) Watson. Nicklaus played golf in a way you would want to teach your children – a gentleman and a perfect ambassador for the game.
Woods is without doubt the greatest front runner the game has ever seen.
The stats also show he has won precious little from the chasing pack or second to last group, on the final day of any tournament.
The big question is : can he overcome his is inability to correct his diagonal cross alignment at the top of his back swing which is exaggerated with the driver and more importantly regain his bottle and composure for putts under six feet – a problem that most tour pros will tell you: only gets worse the older you get!
I agree with mickdavies70: move on from a player who picks and chooses who he talks to, practices in front of (when fans have paid their hard earned cash to watch) and spits without any thought for who might be watching – I certainly do not want my children to emulate that on a golf course!
Instead, support Rory McEllroy and the young crop of talented golfers who are the future of the sport and will carry it forward over the next 15 years

What Woods has done in terms of sheer skill when he was at his peak was amazing and he has provided some truly memorable moments. None more so than that chip at the 16th hole at augusta which in my opinion has to go down as the greatest shot ever. i can understand why so many people want to see him back to his best. The problem for me though is his on course manner and how he deals with the media. Why does he have to spit on the course and swear etc.? i don't care how many women he's slept with. As a golfer it really doesn't concern me. What does though and should everyone here is his lack of etiquette. When i compare his manner to every other player on the circuit he comes across as a spoilt adolescent. if he really meant what he said about learning humility perhaps the best thing for him and all of us would be for him never to win another tournament again. i for one hope he doesn't.

No offence, Rustyrussel, but your comment their is exactly why I really dislike the commentary in this country, or you just can't watch a lot of golf. His etiquette is no worse than lots of players on the US tour. How about Sabattini at the end of the second round in Doral? Now that was selfish, running ahead of his group and the next so he could finish his round before the bad light call. And the horrible celebratory dance that went with it! Not a word said!

The spitting thing is just a difference between the US and European players; loads of them do it. See Dustin Johnson etc. I remember in the Dubai tournament, Tiger dropped his club at the top of his backswing and Mark Roe, charmer that he is, when on for ages about how he should be fined for it. I take it by that logic, Sergio should have been banned for life for smashing up that bunker about 20 times last year? Or your beloved Rory should have been DQ'd for throwing his putter last week in Doral?

They all do it, it's just Tiger's on TV more.

Lies, damned Lies and Statistics.

I believe it was Brian Clough who once had to respond to a question along the lines of his team being "better on paper than the opposition" and not winning.

"Unfortunately, last time I looked, we still play on grass" was the jist of the reply.

I've never been a big Tiger fan (he's American, for goodness sakes!) but have always appreciated his golf, and it's his game on grass that will get my attention rather than the one endlessly portrayed from computer spreadsheets.

Kaymer > Woods
Westwood > Woods
McDowell > Woods

utopastac -

How about Sabattini at the end of the second round in Doral? Now that was selfish, running ahead of his group and the next so he could finish his round before the bad light call. And the horrible celebratory dance that went with it! Not a word said!

Your in fact completly wrong. I was working at doral for shot link all week and he did that so him and his group could finish the round. He was 3 over and knew he didnt have to take his time. By him teeing off meant that his whole group could finish that day and not have to play early doors the next day to finish their round. I watched the highlights after and the american commentators were loving it!

Also, was there nything mentioned on Sky of how fast AK and Overton played their last two rounds? Third round played in 2 hours 15 mins and final round played in 2 hours 6 mins. Not bad when you can play not giving a toss, not taking one practice swing for each shot and till getting paid!

scott_in_america, how am I fact completely wrong, when you essentially reworded what I wrote as a rebuttal? My point still stands, it was selfish and really rude. Everyone is complaining about Tiger's ettiquette, I was merely offering examples of other people doing worse things.

Surely the difference, in reality, is that absolutely nobdoy likes Rory Sabbatini, worst liked player on tour 2007 (?

How was it selfish and rude? He did his group a huge favour. After he hit he waited for the other two players to finish that hole and they finished their last hole together.

I do agree with you that it is because he is on TV far more so gets critised for his behaviour.

I'm hoping Tiger Woods gets back to winning ways (he's iconic) but I'm not sure he will. Certainly he won't achieve the level of 1999 and 2000 again (nobody ever will, let's face it). Reason I'm not confident he'll be winning many more tournaments is that golf is such a head game and he doesn't look as strong in this (nerve) department now. When he stands over a crux six footer, I expect him to miss it. I also do not understand why he's doing the radical swing changes; in 09 he was great, won 7 tournaments, player of the year, should have won his 15th major at the PGA, won the Fedex, topped the money list. No, I suspect it's more cover than anything. His first two swing changes made sense (first one to be more consistent, second one to take stress of the knees) but this one? Really don't know what he's playing at. And why mess around with the short game and putting? He was the best ever at that. Would love to be proved wrong (watch him win or go close at Augusta next month) since I'm a fan, but I'm doubtful.

Fair enough Utopastic and you're right i don't watch much golf apart from the 4 majors and a few others ...don't have sky wish i did though. My point isn't just about tiger though it's about respect for the game in general. My Dad taught me how to behave on the course as part of the game itself and i don't enjoy playing with people who don't know how to say 'great shot' when it's merited. i enjoy it even less to see/hear of professional golfers behaving rudely especially Tiger. i suppose i expect more because he's been so good and will go down in history as one of the greatest. Woods couldn't lace Tom Watson's golf shoes though when it comes to class even if he has won half a dozen more majors.

I feel like such an apologist, but I genuinely believe these things. The difference between 09 and now is huge. His driving is much better now, he has his distance back. Top ten in driving distance; pretty impressive. As well as 4th in GIRs in Doral.

The difference between his success in 09 and now is putting, and putting only. He would have won both the Masters and the US Open last year if he'd putted well in the final rounds. He went something like 180 5 foot and under putts without missing at one point, and over 50 for 50 10 feet and under. If he'd have done that at Doral, he'd have won by 9 shots. 9! His next good putting week will be telling. In his last round in Doral he still didn't hole that many putts, I think he had a total of 25? 31, 32, 28, 25 I think (without checking).

I've got to rebuke the etiquette thing as well; he always says good shot to others, it's simply not true to suggest otherwise. Does nobody remember Garcia spitting in the hole? No one?

Consider for a moment that Nicklaus was 46 when he won his 18th and last Major. Assuming that Tiger stays injury free, he has FORTY-FOUR majors to compete in, and he only has to win 5 of those to overake Jack. Or to put it another way he needs to win just 1 in 9 Majors. Given that his win ratio has been 1 in 3 since the the 97 Masters, I'm totally confident that he will surpass Jack's records.

I do wonder whether Nicklaus's game was subjected to such scrutiny in his 'darker years'.

Westwood and the other 'top' golfers in the world still have some major catching up to do to even be compared with Woods. Zero major for the world no.2 is useless. kaymer has fluked 1 major, wow..

It's only a matter of time before Tiger gets back to winning ways. He's won 14 majors so don't count him out adding to his tally.

Yes (29), Tiger has a good few years left in which to add to his major haul. That Nicklaus Masters win in 86, though, was a bit of a one-off - I reckon TW has to win at least one more by the end of 2012 to stay in with a realistic chance of getting to 19. Be a shame if he comes up short, given the impact he's had on the game and more generally. Putting (especially under pressure) is probably the key.

#11 - I couldn't agree more.

Tiger is caught between a rock and a hard place on the golf course at the moment - any minor mistake he makes is magnified hugely whilst any good round he puts together is attributed to the lack of pressure on him.

I'm looking forward to watching him at this week's Arnold Palmer Invitational on a course on which he has had massive success throughout his career. Whilst I'm not backing him to win - he simply isn't playing well enough at the moment - don't be surprised to see him shoot one round in the mid-60s and finish in the top ten. Serious question marks remain over his driving, but as the old cliche goes, "drive for show and putt for dough" - it is his short game that has been letting him down in the last 18 months. There is no doubt that when Tiger putts well he will contend any tournament. Hopefully his prowess on the greens will come to the fore on the notoriously tricky greens at Augusta and we will see him clinch his fifth green jacket.

Spectators, Players (well McIlroy at least) and journalists may have written Tiger off but the bookies still know best.

Last time I checked he was the bookies favourite the win all four Majors this year.

Golf is a 40 year career and that will always feature some peaks and troughs (ie Nicklaus 1967-1970)

It only a matter of time before Tiger shows bottlers like Westwood, Garcia, Casey et al exactly how it’s done again.

Tiger Woods is yesterdays news in golf, move on Ian for heavens sake.

Question for Iain Carter:

Why is the 91Èȱ¬ not covering the Masters live on tv until the saturday?

Is it a financial issue?

Same question as GrouchoM, why is the 91Èȱ¬ not covering the Masters live until Saturday?

* His driving is one of the worst on tour: 61st in distance, 187th in accuracy, he either hits a huge hook L or block it out R.
* His putting is now..well..we all know what it's like now: he's 105th compared to 3rd three years ago and he's constantly changing back-and-forth between putters.
* His short-game, once the best, looks like any other PGA player now.

The Woods Fan-Club must be in real pain:
"oh Torrey Pines is a fave course of his - he should do well": T44
"right, Doral is a great course in the past for Tiger - he'll contend for sure": T33
"Bay Hill? Ahhh...this is where he'll finally shine after 6 victories here": T24

It's almost tragic how he's failing at almost everything this year...yet he'll man-up and tell reporters it's a work-in-progress and how he's striking the ball well.
He's shot 4 out of 12 rounds in the 60s...at three tournaments he was expected to at least contend in.

With morbid fascination I await Augusta in 2 weeks...and as for the guy who mentioned the bookies earlier on?
I fancy your chances putting money on a Woods Missed Cut.

Remember, Lee westwood was ranked in the 200s before making a brilliant comeback. Tiger Woods will not be able to concentrate on the course unless his head is sorted off it. Anyone who has had to go through a divorce (albeit it's his own doing) will understand.

Even if Tiger never regains his form, his haul of 14 majors defines a great career.

BTW, when did an English player last win a major?