91Èȱ¬

Allegations this severe should be absolutely shocking. It's a testament to how low FIFA has stooped that such claims are now bordering on the routine. At what point does withdrawl from FIFA become an option?

Lord T I'm sure wouldn't be saying this without some substance otherwise he'd be inviting the metophorical executioners bullet you'd think.

It makes me laugh that FIFA say they won't allow political involvement within an FA E.g. Bosnia-Herzegovina yet they expect politcians to cosy up to them to fund World Cups etc.

Maybe it's time for FIFA to be scrapped - international football to be consigned to the history books and an elite club led organisation to run the global game.

I have also wondered about that.. "at what point is withdrawel from FIFA an option".

Is it an option? It does feel like a house of cards and that if maybe only a handful of top footballing nations withdrew it might spur a complete collapse of the current regime and maybe amore deomocratic and transparent agency could be built.

Another thing who died and made FIFA king? How is it that the worlds richest and most popular sport is run by countries that have no discernable prescence in the sport?

Blatter is not fit for purpose, hasn't been for a long time. He presided over this and has acted in a previously pompous manner. Now he wants to be re-elected he is talking somewhat differently. He has to go, just leave the keys on the table on your way out Sepp! And thanks for nothing.

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In any walk of life, when there is serious wrong doing, there will always be a point when someone, somewhere has to make a stand. I suppose the question has to be asked, are England's footballing authorities brave enough to take up the challenge and pursue a case against FIFA? The fact that England lost their bid does not mean that England have never participated in any wrong doing. Before anything is decided we must ensure our own house was in order at the time.

Not that any of this makes the slightest bit of difference now that Geoff Thompson has rubberstamped Blatters re-election campaign. You couldnt make it up.

The Qatar decision is looking more baffling than ever, any investigation needs to look at this.

If there is wrongdoing, it should be awarded to USA instead.

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As a football fan these politics do not concern me, but my passion is for justice, equality, fairness etc. So i'm feeling pretty sick.

How people can be so greedy, so inconsiderate etc, i know it happens, so often so that it's just accepted, but it's really sickening to me.

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Isn't the most depressing thing about this that no one is shocked by it? If these allegations are proven is anything really likely to happen at FIFA? As long as they all keep their cushy lifestyles then why should they care about anything else?!

Considering FIFA is obviously rotten to the core, I wonder why nobody in the national FAs has considered seeking the support of several other FAs of top teams to form their own world governing body. FIFA could not survive without the bulk of the top teams and the rest would soon have to follow. It won't happen though; there's too much conformism these days. There are too few people left in the world willing to fight for change.

Sepp Blatter is a disgrace. He's propped up by cronies such as Warner and Platini. Platini was great as a player, but hideous as a human being.

Let remember that FIFA doesn't have to answer to anyone. They can do what they like and they will continue to do so until the system by which they are run, elected etc fundamentally changes.

They have the games best interests at heart don't forget. Aah yes.

There is no appetite whatsoever to address the problems that exist and the allegations will disappear like thay always do.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Buiness as usual.

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Can somebody please tell me why my comment has broken House Rules? Or are we not allowed to suggest that Blatter is bad for football!

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The time has come for all the nations that have won the World Cup, plus countries with strong footballing tradition, to start their own competition. I am certain that there would be plenty enough interest from the TV companies, and the vast majority of the people who would watch such an event would not care one bit if the lesser teams such as Azerbijan, San Marino, Qatar or Zimbabwe were not involved! Sounds good, doesn't it! Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile, Mexico, Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Holland, Hungary, Belgium, Slovakia, Ghana, and of course England! Then it wouldn't take a month to play, and we wouldn't need to have anything to do with FIFA and Blatter!

. . . and then I woke up to find the next 2 World Cups would be in the Arctic and the Arabian desert!

I also believe that London's Olympic bid win is a bit strange.

There are some very good comments on here especially Paul Taylor @13, I was not shocked. FIFA + Corruption allegation = no surprise.

I am sure that the good old 'England are bad losers' quips will appear soon and English football will not be popular, whenever someone takes a stand against injustice and corruption they are never very popular with those they make a stand against and those who have most to lose; Ghandi, Emily Pankhurst and Martin Luther King for example.

If these allegations prove true, perhaps Australia, the USA, Spain as well as England would get some support to drive forward at least a one nation one vote system for FIFA if not a break away organisation?

i have broken the house rules, same as chopper. not sure how as ive just read the house rules and nothing i said seemed too bad :S oh well. i will try to make my point without hurting anybodies feelings. I feel that fifa needs policing to stamp out any ALLEGED injustices by board members. this is in no way reflective of the views of the 91Èȱ¬ and is purely my own personal opinion.

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The FA should abstain when it comes to the FIFA presidential elections. Blatter will win anyway, as he's got enough voters in his pocket, but this is surely his last term and we can then get Michel Platini elected to the job. It's well overdue for FIFA to be led by someone who actually cares about football.

The problem is that Triesman strikes me as the slippery kind of crook who will say anything to avoid blame.

my comment was good I think. tribesman should be looked into as well as by the authorities

I have been on "choppers" point of view for some time. Let the top 10 international football federations get together and leave for FIFA. Then set up FIFA (2011), or whatever you want to call it, a new competition with new rules and less countries, with a professional code of conduct.
Corruption solved at least for the time being !!

"Faced with these latest revelations, Fifa president Sepp Blatter said the governing body would act immediately if presented with evidence of wrongdoing."

This is what I really love - the body charged with investigating wrong doing at FIFA is... FIFA!

The evidence provided under parliamentary privilege by Lord Triesman today, whilst compelling, would not stand up as evidence in any meaningful way in a proper court, let alone the court of the crimson Blatter - unless Leoz's translator was prepared to turn against his boss (and how did Leoz get the legion d'honneur, by the way?). Without corroboration, its just one man's word against another - an even if one of those men happens to be Jack Warner, that's equal weight of evidence.

So the Sunday Times investigation could prove much "more significant" as David Bond rightly notes.

One bright spot. After Warner's looney-tunes suggsetion that Lord Triesman was doing this to resurrect his political career, the Trinidad man declared that he had nothing else to say on the matter. Good.

The problem with choppers idea is that Brazil have the next FIFA WC 2014, and without Brazil the break away WC will be meaningless.

Anyway if the result of not getting a world cup in England is the break up of FIFA i'm glad its not coming. I hope they have Warner on tape bang to rights.

SB only needs to act of Lord T comes up with some evidence. If he does not there is no case to answer. Please remember that these are allegations.

In any case.. so FIFA's reputations is damaged. So what! What does this really mean? Once again the English game has itself on a little perch thinking the world revolves around it. The reality is nobody else in the 'real world' actually cares.

The consensus was that England has some divine right to host the WC. We didn't. We were out manoeuvred by the other bidders. Simple.

@22 Spain would never be a part of a breakaway especially with such poor footballing nations as the ones you included. Who would want to see England play Australia or USA in some sort of alternative WC? Certainly not me. Most people over the world want to see nations like Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Germany and Italy (sorry England is not part of that group when it comes to national teams) which are truly the first division of nations when it comes to football. Unless they agree to be part of a breakaway group it will be dead in it's tracks. I wouldn't mind if the US would get the WC instead of Qatar since I live there at the moment.

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@32

Spot on!

34.

Theifa?

AWESOME. On the money. Love that.

'Blatter is bidding for a fourth term as president three in three weeks.' Typo there maybe.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this but I wont hold my breath. Lets face it, if Lord Triesman had the hard evidence then it would have been released earlier.

I don't deny that Lord Triesman is telling the truth but I do think these executive committee members have been in the job long enough to know how to ask for your soul and still be squeeky clean.

An important detail is FIFA can act upon corruption allegations if they want to. Nobody can make them to.

An other detail is it seems unclear if Lord Triesman's allegations can be proven.

And the missing information from this blog is about Scudamore claims Lord Triesman's version of events is incorrect.

What's the reason for Scudamore and Triesman to have difference in views on the matter?

It's all perfectly confusing.

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Greece lost the 1996 Olympic games to Atlanta.
England lost the 2018 World Cup to Qatar.

What's the difference? To me none.

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@ 42, Ferry_Arab,

you have some very valid points there.
Isn't it funny nobody talks about such details?

Personally, I think it can only do damage to the English cause of holding the World Cup again. You don't talk about corruption in FIFA only when you lose your bid in hosting the event. You put the finger up and show mishandlings when they occur, as soon as they occur and demand clarity. Never after failing because then you're vulnerable and half-guilty yourself, by default.

@32
With due respect, I think that you are wrong about people in England thinking that we have a "divine right" to host the World Cup, and that thinking that our bid was "outmanouvered" by other bids. There is too much evidence and speculation for at least some of these allegations to be unture. I'm not saying that they are all true, but "no smoke without fire" seems to mean a lot with this subject.

As for the "divine right" comment, I certianly think that it would be a lot easier and cheaper for all concerened to host a World Cup in England than either Russia or Qatar. We cartinaly had every right to be confident in our ability to host a World Cup. Why you might ask? Well I'll tell you.
1) Stadia - we have the quality and quantity of stadia already in place to host a World Cup
2) Transport - our road networks really are not that bad actually, and there are also alternative methods of transport available e.g. internal flights, trains.
3) Hotels - IMHO we have enough hotels around the country to put teams up and most of them either have a football pitch on them or have the space for a pitch. And even if I'm wrong, this would probably be the only tihng that we needed to build.
4) Training facilities - 20 Premier League Clubs, other clubs who have facilities available e.g. Leeds, Southampton etc.
5) History - Ok I admit, not the strongest reason to host a World Cup but we do have a long and good history of football in England
6) Fans - Lets face it, for every horror story of English fans kicking off anywhere in the world, there are 5 or 6 games where the vast majority of fans have been brilliant
7) Hosting the Olympics - What does that have anything to do with it? Well let me tell you. If the IOC is willing to give England the right to host the 2012 Olympics then it shows FIFA that other world sporting organisations have the confidence in our ability as a nation to host a major event.
8) Multi-cultural society - A large number of nations already have fans that live over here
9) Love of the game - Obvious this one. Football is the most popular sport in England. The vast majority of people would really buy in to the World Cup to at least some degree.
That's all I can think off. I'm sure someone else will add to this list...and someone else will slate me soon.

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@42 Precisely. But at the same time if you cut the head off the snake, it vastly discourages such behaviour from the FAs around the world.

I certainly believe that England would arrange a very good WC, English stadiums these days are great and importantly there are no running tracks between the spectators and the pitch.

However by claiming English teams have been cheated like post 40 is just silly. Anyone remember Spain v South Korea in 2002, that was the worst travesty I have ever seen in a WC? OTOH England benefited from a shady decision in 1966 when a linesman who had been a German prisoner or war clearly gave a goal to England which decided the match.

@ 44, sabretooth86,

Yes but this isn't an argument to base a claim for hosting the World Cup, though.
South Africa didn't have the stadia, neither the infrastructure but they built them.

Another key idea in World Cup destinations is expanding the game.
England is where the game has been born - no expansion opportunity neither need for infrastructure to help expansion.

A different argument that has appeared before has been relating to the cost of Russia hosting the event, because of the cost associated to travel from one city to the other - I just used an example relating fans.

But FIFA (and UEFA) don't really care that much about fans. They're proving it time and again when they set prices for tickets, etc. when it comes to hosting football events.

Perhaps, the organisers of the English bid should keep an angle to let English fans know that hosting the World Cup wouldn't be a banker to succeed but a battle they might lose.

A lot of talk about FIFA breakup surprises me. It might rather put the world game into chaos. It's better men and nations of goodwill,honesty and integrity fight these "theifa" executives from within Fifa until truth and justice prevails. Thumps up to the Sunday Times. Keep the good work going!

IMO it simply goes a long way in showing up the English superiority complex for what it is. It is not bad refs, not a lack of technology, not cheating foreigners but simply that the English FA, especially the Premier League sold the national team down the Swanee in pursuit of money - can you name one team at the world cup who did not have a player playing in the English football league?

There is also a huge persecution complex in this country when it comes to FIFA, these are only allegations yet everyone is treating them as proven fact. Imagine the uproar if someone accused the FA (apparently whiter than white at home) of the same offences.

Russia are laying on free high speed train travel during the WC to reduce costs for fans btw

@20 - Chopper - you have stolen my thunder chum - you have hit the nail on the head but do the various associations have the courage to take such steps? No they haven't, which is the real pity. For me, those associations who vote Blatter back in come the end of May are as guilty as the accused FIFA members themselves because they are walking away from an opportunity to start with a clean sheet - as long as it is not Platini - as wet as an administrator as he was great as a player. Blatter should go, not because I am accusing him of guilt - I have no proof - but because the buck stops with him and the accusations against the six today mean he has little option but to resign and the associations around the world should stand up and recognise this as fact.

In addition you have to consider that the Sunday Times really couldn't care less if England won the right to host it. A scandal, whether real or imaginary, will sell papers

"Blatter is bidding for a fourth term as president three in three weeks. And while he has not been accused of any wrongdoing, all these claims have come on his watch."...

...Speaking only for myself, David, this is because 91Èȱ¬ moderators won't allow me to make any accusations.

Perhaps FIFA needs a total restructuring but who could impose it?
Wouldn't countries attempt to have some more power than others?
It's far too complex.

It's also too difficult to have a break-away W.C. as some suggest. Can you imagine a World Cup without Brazil and Argentina? Myself, it's these two teams I want to see most and, I believe, the entire planet is waiting for four years to go in order to watch them again.

European clubs cannot break away even from UEFA. How do people expect national football federations who, by definition are conservative in the way of thinking (no relevance to the political party), to be revolutionary?

I don't think it's a superiority complex as SuperSonic4 mentioned. Perhaps it's false hopes promoted by organisers and English media together. Technology needs to be introduced to help the game. Henry did win for France a place in the South Africa World Cup at the expense of Ireland by cheating. And foreign nationals from the countries who took part in the last World Cup do play almost in every European country that matters in football.

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@ 56, JobyJak,

I think you're dangerously right in those statements :)

ooops... did say dangerously!

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No matter what angle I look at the article, I can't think of a single reason for FIFA to care one tiny little bit about Lord Triesman's allegations(?).

The more I think of it, the more I come to two conclusions:
a) shortly, Blatter will have a last term in FIFA, so it's still advertising for him and his name is being spelled correctly;
b) tomorrow it's Wednesday; Liverpool played yesterday, City played tonight and something needs to appear on back pages until the weekend.

If there's anything surprising it's how few, in comparison to last time, postings are not allowed to stay posted, by the 91Èȱ¬.

but will anything really happen aside england getting even further blacklisted? nope.

And the only challenger to Blatter comes from Qatar.

That is some choice.

bbc can't handle the truth. My comments have been removed.we all know whats up at FiFA

@Football UK
For once someone isn't biting my head off when the disagree with me (referring to a different chat for) so thanks for that. It's nice to have a civil discussion.

I believe that what I stated are the strongest reasons for England to have won the WC bid. You have a point with the expansion of the game in England, however I beleive that money generated by the WC shoud (I say again, SHOULD) go to football supported/football related charities. For instance, helping young players who didn't make it as a pro to get qualifications to go in to another industry. Probably wouldn't happen but you can always hope.

The fans getting to matches would surely be helped by the size of our nation (especially compared to Russia) and our transport system. Of course SA were able to build the structure and support networks for the WC, but I wasn't a fan of the SA bid for the same reasons I'm not a fan of the Qatar and Russia bids now...lack of stadia, football history and stadia etc. The WC is a football tournament so therefore should be given to a footballing nation. Russia can actually claim to be a football nation, they have some good players and clubs. Qatar? No.

lord t needs to keep a lid on it. the benifit to world football has been lost, by not bringing this up when it it first occurred he lost the moment to make a profound statement.
if england had pulled out because of these reasons i would have applauded them and i am sure most people would.
but
theres also a part of me that thinks though that sometimes the means justifies the ends. we should have bettered what anyone put on the table.

i think russia deserve the world cup, they love football and have steep heritage of the game.

lol I guess my point has been vindicated by my comment being rejected.

I didn't even label anyone, all I did was point out that corruption is everywhere, and my comment was removed.

Was I too honest? lol

any organization that polices its self is bound to be (o??&#

The 91Èȱ¬ is a little scared of being sued. Far enough since it is the licence fee payers that foot the bill.

All in all, I am waiting with baited breath for the Panarama program that blows FIFA apart. They are waiting for it, we are waiting for it, 91Èȱ¬, go and do our nation proud.

P.S. I dont buy into the fact FIFA are inept because of where they come from, Blatters credentials are pretty good when you look at them.

Jay (#68),
There WAS a Panorama program on the subject in 2006, but I have previously been "moderated" for trying to quote it!

Don't hold your breath too long.

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thefrogstar is right. Andrew Jennings is known for his documentaries about the alleged (note the word mods) corruption of Jack Warner and they were broadcast by Panorama. There was one in the week of the WC bid which some of the now anti FIFA brigade were saying was wrecking English chances because it had the cheek to do what English fans are calling for now, so only be truthful when it suits your chances is the moral lesson I assume.

@ 64, sabretooth86,

My friend, power and money are the two things that don't allow planet Earth to be a heaven to live in.

Are you really aware you understand what you are, in such a noble fashion, suggesting? !!!

Such things would never happen.

@ 64, sabretooth86,

I didn't want this detail to be risked in #63 but are you aware of charities where charity managers have some hefty annual salaries (because they are the best in the business - you know the drill) and the whole thing is for something to be there, available, to give them a salary and, if there are any left overs, to be given to the reference charity? Because I know quite a few actually.

" if true they cast serious doubt on the way Qatar shocked the world of football."

Oh come on, it's no shock. Everyone and thei dog knows how they got the tourny! Strip FIFA of their mandate. The only top nation who likes 'em are the Brazilians.

@ 74, Michael,

Who can strip FIFA of their mandate and what mandate will allow them to take such an action?

Are you seriously suggesting that Brazil need a weather advantage in order to have a good World Cup performance?

FIFA smells more and more like the IOC in the days of Juan Antonio Samaranch.

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sabretooth @ 00:28

You seem to be making the assumption that in a level playing field england would have won the bid? you may have had a case that we were better suited than russia, but Spain/portugal had the best bid. All very good points in your earlier post, but spain/portugal still trumped our bid. The feeling within europe during the bid process was that england hadn't done their homework and there was feeling that we thought it was our right to have the winning bid - our organisation was a farce from the beginning. Yes FIFA is messed up, unfortunately this does not mean that if it wasn't messed up we would have won the bid. We still would have lost out to spain/portugal

Rotten to the core. And I mean 'core'. Unfortunately, a Warren Commission will satisfy enough people.

A bunch of conservative old farts in FIFA with too much power. Only way to introduce technology in football is to top-up their retirement accounts.

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I think that those who are suggesting that FIFA be scrapped and an elite club-led organisation replace it need to look seriously at the rife levels of influencing matches which goes on in national leagues, the Champions League etc etc.

All the clubs would be in this situation is opportunists.

When money's afoot, who but opportunists would be involved anyway?

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Why don't we just let England, Spain and Italy run international football and decide who is allowed to host World Cups? Maybe we could allow England to have 4 teams in the World Cup. This is a concerted campaign by the likes of England to take away any influence that smaller nations have in the game. Thank god for FIFA or we'd have a cartel just like the €hampions League.

A lot more credence would be provided to Triesman's comments if they were echoed by the USA and Australia bid chairmen.

As the other two nations that could argue they were stitched up in the process, this really would bring the organisation down.

For now, England should abstain from anything to do with FIFA, or, at least explain to the general public why they are still dealing with them and backing Blatter in his up-coming election.

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A breakaway, unless it was total (all in / all out) would be a disaster for the sport. We'd end up with several federations, several competitions and no one ever knowing who was champion of what.

Look at boxing, it would end up like that, and just be a mess.

Triesman should have flagged up any wrong doing by FIFA officials at the time. Now it just sounds like sour grapes. I think we all know what sort of organisation FIFA is and the quality of the people in charge. Triesman really missed a trick by leaving it until now to complain. He we will need very, very strong evidence to make anything stick.

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88.

It could work if done like this...

England invite all the top nations for a mini friendly tournament next summer.
England invite them all again the following season.
England invite them all again the following season.

If pre-tournament, make them warm-up friendlies.

If some cannot fit them in, make them mid-season friendlies (you know, the ones they all moan about - few would moan from the capacity crowd if our friendly was against Germany rather than Bulgaria) and eschew the minnow countries to just play each other and add points to the summer mini-tournament.

Share all profits.

Suggest it rotates among them.

After less than four years FIFA will act - tell them to get stuffed.

This is the only way FIFA will ever reform.

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From past experiences on topics relating to FIFA's seemingly unsavoury side, you have to be careful what you post because the 91Èȱ¬ snuffs out any comments that suggest FIFA may not be entirely fair and free of corruption.
Let's put it this way - FIFA answer to no one. If there is corruption within the higher echelons of the organisation, who will stamp it out? Nobody can do a thing about it. It's better for England and the other Europeans to break away from FIFA and form their own organisation than to be run by FIFA. I don't believe FIFA have the games best interest at heart. FIFA only wants to make money, that's why it wants to spread the game as far as it can by handing the World Cups to countries who would previously not have even been considered. Football needs a change and Europe should lead the way, for without the European nations FIFA would collapse.

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As an I Irish fooball fan, I would love to see the English FA (Who created the sport) Steo in and try to Challange FIFA.

I don't know the practicalities of how they could do this but in terms of world wide respect I know the F.A would have the moral support of most football fans if they tried to do something. I'm sure that plenty of world football Authorities would happily follow Englands lead.

Afterall its your sport, and you should take it back.

Being an Irishman, if there was a world wide governing body ruling over our Gaelic Games (GAA) who acted like FIFA, I would feel Ireland would have enery right to step in take back control.



I've always supported and respected english football and your league.

This would be an ideal time for the other failed bidders to speak up, if they were subject to the same practices...

But it all seems very quiet......

I agree with DontTrustTheGovernment @ #89. Triesman would have made world football sit up and take notice if he had pulled England's bid out as soon the first "favours" were put to him, by making these allegations now smacks as sour grapes....... was he stupid enough to think that the bid was still going to succeed without "palm-greasing"?

Unfortunately the only people who have the power and make FiFA (or the FA for that matter) wake up and smell the coffee are the fans, by voting with their feet, but, alas as with the Green and Gold campaign against the Glazers at Man Utd, for every fan who doesn't renew his season ticket there are 5 others waiting to buy one.

Time to sit back and watch all the games in glorious HD......... and enjoy a beer while doing so!!

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As has been mentioned earlier about countries boycotting FIFA and setting up an rival organization, and given the propensity of the moderators to censor anything they don't agree with, regardless of breaking the house rules or not, how about those of us who post taking our own action?

How about nobody posting on any blog or article for one month?

Can you imagine, day after day of nothing to moderate on any topic? Journalists who write articles only keep doing so if their articles can generate interest, thats how everyone gets paid.

No interest, no article. No article, no pay. Maybe even no need for moderators? Maybe they wouldn't be so keen on censorship then?

So, those of us calling for change in international football, how about WE start to change things WE are unhappy about?!

As from say, Friday, nobody post on anything.

I heard of a Chinese saying,...." Ah Grasshopper,....never did a single raindrop consider itself responsible for the flood."

Oh yeah!


Wonder if this will get posted?