91Èȱ¬

« Previous | Main | Next »

Delivering Quality First: Halving the number of top level domains on 91Èȱ¬ Online

Comments

Share this page

Post categories:

Ian Hunter | 16:50 UK time, Monday, 24 January 2011

In March last year Erik Huggers noted that one symptom of the way 91Èȱ¬ Online had grown over the years was the proliferation of TLDs that made up the site.

A challenge we set ourselves was to reduce the number from over 400 to under 200. This is a progress report.

The challenge had two parts. First, it made us ask which parts of the site really delivered in terms of audience benefit and therefore should be kept and built on. They formed part of our "fewer things, better" approach.

It is also true that some sites, for example, /news naturally absorbed older content into its online archive, allowing people to follow stories back in time. Our /programmes site also works in this way, designed to provide a long term record of 91Èȱ¬ broadcast output. However, where a site was more stand alone and its content no longer attracted users, was becoming unreliable, or video and audio assets unplayable, it was easy enough to earmark it for closure.

Second, we had to decide how best to manage the legacy content. Even sites which had become out of date were likely to have some historical interest. We looked into possible online archiving solutions but none fitted the bill. So we have decided to store the core content from our older websites offline, allowing interested parties in future to be able to recreate at least some of the experience they offered.

A number of sites which previously had their own TLDs will become absorbed into 91Èȱ¬ Online's new products. Their assets, therefore, will continue to be available.

For others, a typical lifecycle is emerging.

This goes from live to a "mothball" state, where the content still has value but is no longer updated, for example /palin.

At some stage mothballed content becomes stale or potentially damaging and it needs to be taken offline. At that stage a "tombstone" tells users what has happened and may offer alternatives.This also avoids breaking the user's journey. The material taken offline is stored for future reference, or deleted altogether.

For the record, here is our current list of TLDs which are earmarked for closure before the end of the year.

Ian Hunter is Managing Editor, 91Èȱ¬ Online

Share this page

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    As can be seen from Erik Huggers's post and from the Wikipedia article that you've linked to, the things which you are talking about are not top-level domains. They are top-level directories under the domain www.bbc.co.uk.

    I also don't see why the list needs to be in Excel format, or a spreadsheet at all.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 1)

  • Comment number 2.

    Although, as a follow up, removing some of the 91Èȱ¬-owned domains would also be a good thing and would save money: /news/10205810. Those are still not TLDs though.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 2)

  • Comment number 3.

    Hi djcater - the link to wikipedia was posted in error and I've now removed it.

    Thanks

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 3)

  • Comment number 4.

    Nick, that doesn't change the fact that these aren't top-level domains. A directory isn't a domain. "Top level domains" shouldn't be in the title and "TLD" shouldn't appear anywhere in the post. You're talking about subdirectories.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 4)

  • Comment number 5.

    I was wondering if the content that is being expired could possibly be assigned "creative commons" status, so it can be archived by fans?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 5)

  • Comment number 6.

    Will you be making an effort not to break old URLs?

    Universal should generally refer to over time as well - it'd be nice if all the old links redirected to the new locations of content, and in the cases where the content is no longer available online, to a page explaining why and how this "offline" archive could be accessed.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 6)

  • Comment number 7.

    @6: It looks like some of the site on that list have already been archived...
    /intheknow/

    I know it's a little extra work but it would be nice if the 'swept off this website' pages could be put into the GEL framework. At least then in theory it would ensure the links to the rest of the site in the header & footer would remain up-to-date.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 7)

  • Comment number 8.

    Nick,

    Rather than deleting the Wikipedia link, you may have been better reading article on TLDs which states:

    "A top-level domain (TLD) is one of the domains at the highest level in the hierarchical Domain Name System of the Internet...it is the last part of the domain name...For example, in the domain name www.example.com, the top-level domain is com"

    If you doubt the veracity of Wikipedia articles, then you can see a similar definition on the ICANN website ( ).

    Mr. Hunter's article is interesting, but it is disturbing that he seems not to know what a TLD actually is.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 8)

  • Comment number 9.

    Wow. What a wrong post. Quite apart from the baffling failure to know what a TLD is, how exactly does deleting existing content make anything better? It just breaks external links to that content - links that the 91Èȱ¬ can't change. URIs are meant to be as eternal as possible, not just deleted so that some pointless bureaucratic exercise can make people feel things are tidied. Really, hasn't everyone learnt yet that arbitrary targets like halving top level directories are... well, arbitrary. What are the odds that the effort spent identifying which to delete and getting rid of them and making ongoing decisions about them massively outweighs any saving in storage?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 9)

  • Comment number 10.

    I'm glad that the 91Èȱ¬ want to halve the number of top level domains. There are far too many of them. We really don't need one for every country. Especially small countries like Luxembourg (.lu) - couldn't they just share with Belgium (.be)? And Guernsey (.gg) definitely doesn't need it's own one.
    It's also good that you're looking into scraping legacy TLDs too. No one really uses .gb any more, you should just make all .gb domains redirect to .uk ones.

    It's great to see that the 91Èȱ¬ are prepared to stand up against the likes of ICANN who are proposing opening up top level domain registration to anyone who has enough money. Domain registration should have the needs of end users in mind and not just be a revenue making exercise.

    Well done 91Èȱ¬.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 10)

  • Comment number 11.

    It really is terribly funny that the Managing Editor of 91Èȱ¬ Online doesn't know enough about the internet to recognize what a goof the TLD bit is. It's kind of sad too. Like the notion that deleting content as busywork is somehow improving things. Binning user contributed content like H2G2 is close to immoral, though.

    Seeing that Mahoney266 posted much of what I wanted to say, I'll leave it there.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 11)

  • Comment number 12.

    Perhaps when closing a programme related website the URL should be redirected to point to a location on /programmes where basic information about the show & episodes can be found.

    eg. /realhustle/ to /programmes/b006m8mf
    /oliver/ to /programmes/b009m2l9

    This would possibly help in reducing the number of dead links which external sites may get as a result of mothballing or taking a site offline.

    There are probably also a number of 91Èȱ¬ News programme websites which would benefit from being moved into the /programmes section.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 12)

  • Comment number 13.

    In every post regarding the chages to 91Èȱ¬ Online, the author talks about the reduction in the number of top level domains (TLDs). There is only 1 TLD in use here which is bbc.co.uk. Just because there is a sub directory (eg /news, /sport etc) this does not mean that there are multiple TLDs and for the Managing Director of 91Èȱ¬ Online to make such a basic mistake is inexcusable.

    It is not just Mr Hunter however that makes this basic mistake. The outgoing Head of 91Èȱ¬ Future Media & Technology Erik Huggers also seems confused:

    Closures and Reductions
    As a result there are some editorial areas we’ll be pulling back from, and some websites we’ll be closing completely.

    •The closure of half of the 400 Top Level Domains (with 180 closing ahead of schedule later this year)


    /blogs/aboutthebbc/2011/01/delivering-quality-first.shtml%29

    Maybe some basic education is required on basic terminology....

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 13)

  • Comment number 14.

    Thanks for the comments. djcater and others are right to say we are talking about directories here. The domain word got into our wider communications about the changes and we kept it here to be consistent: wrong place to do that.

    We'll look into the "creative commons" idea, Briantist. In all cases, the idea is to provide users with constructive user journeys, either by redirecting, or by providing useful information about where content can now be found.

    I know there are people who think content once online should never be deleted. Our view is that we meet our users' expectations by removing audio or video that no longer works, or information that is out of date or unreliable. Or, as Keith points out, when it becomes superceded.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 14)

  • Comment number 15.

    "The domain word got into our wider communications about the changes and we kept it here to be consistent: wrong place to do that."

    It shouldn't have been in your wider communications in the first place

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 15)

  • Comment number 16.

    Please may we have some reassurance that 91Èȱ¬ Red Button and 91Èȱ¬ Ceefax viewers will not find the quality and quantity of those services' pages affected by the changes to 91Èȱ¬ online?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 16)

  • Comment number 17.

    What will happen to WW" People's War?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 17)

  • Comment number 18.

    As someone who built a few of these sites, I'm sad to see them go - 91Èȱ¬ Cult especially. For a vast resource the amount of webspace it takes up is tiny - so the saving in switching it off would be negligible. It's still the definitive online resource for a large amount of classic 91Èȱ¬ content, the history of Blue Peter, and, madly, the best Buffy the Vampire Slayer site on the web. Plus (terrible confession), I've no idea how much of the 91Èȱ¬'s classic Doctor Who site will break when it's switched off. As the two were built through the same authoring system and the Cult plug was pulled quite quickly... well, it was a bit of a rushed job to split the two, but *fingers crossed* it should be fine....

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 18)

  • Comment number 19.

    Now if you are interested in real new TLDs: a dot-news or dot-programmes - even dot-palin (Sarah or Michael?) -- then I do have a good pointer for you: . And you can see the applicants for all the new ones by clicking "Applicants" at the top. Should go live later this year.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 19)

  • Comment number 20.

    Ian, Your understanding of a TLD domain is incorrect . Nominet runs the country code top level domain ( ccTLD ) ie .uk . There are 288 two digit ccTLDs and 21 gTLDs ( generic top level domain ) like .com .org . The 91Èȱ¬ have "bought" bbc.co.uk( registered with Nominet )- this is a second level domain . The registration can lapse if not renewed through Nominet ( usually every two years.)
    ICANN ( www.icann.org) runs the internet addressing space . They are working on new gTLDs - potentially like eg .bbc . orange .london .whatever. The 91Èȱ¬ could apply for a .bbc through ICANN . The application window is very likely to open mid 2011. Please please get in touch @ [Personal details removed by Moderator]. Check out the conference on this @ www.dot-nxt.com ( 8-10 February 2011 in San Francisco). Think the 91Èȱ¬ needs to urgently revisit its strategy on TLDs . regards

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 20)

  • Comment number 21.

    Thanks Phil B. I know that there is a possible shift in the way domains are organised and we are monitoring progress. A complex set of costs and benefits, no doubt.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 21)

  • Comment number 22.

    Ian , I would say a major shift in the internet addressing system , with serious concerns for the top brands , like the bbc , who are currently ( mainly) adopting a defensive registration strategy regarding their domain portfolio . With a projected introduction of 500 .whatever through ICANN application process in 2011 some complex cost benefit analysis ( as you say) is required . I would like to predict in 2015 all major companies will be running their own registry as in .virgin . sainsbury . It is a marketing dream , but a nightmare for trademark attorneys . As I am unable to give out a personal email I will contact you at the 91Èȱ¬ directly. The DG needs to be up to speed on the major implications to the 91Èȱ¬ regarding their online strategy.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 22)

  • Comment number 23.

    Getting back on topic, are you saying that a lot of the sites like cult are going to be tombstoned then? If so I am really disappointed, as James Goss pointed out above "For a vast resource the amount of webspace it takes up is tiny".

    What exactly will you gain by doing this a few GB of disk space and the world will lose some good informative historical information.

    As someone else mentioned, if you really must get rid of it, is there not an archive site somewhere it could go to - like the british library/national archive or something?

    In your faq you state you only remove old pages when it would be harmful to keep it. Is keeping a page on the History of bagpuss or swap shop going to cause harm in some way then?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 23)

  • Comment number 24.

    Ian Hunter wrote:
    > "Our view is that we meet our users' expectations by removing audio or video
    > that no longer works..."

    That's the trouble with these pesky digital media formats, video and audio gets worn out when too many people make use of it. The electrons must be tired...

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 24)

  • Comment number 25.

    As others have said: please could someone at the 91Èȱ¬ explain why the they keep referring to 'top level domains' and TLDs, whereas they seem to be talking about directories.

    It's important to get this right: the 91Èȱ¬ is proposing major changes, and they should express in a way that's clear and accurate.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 25)

  • Comment number 26.

    I am appalled to see that /ww2peopleswar is on the list for deletion. This is a precious resource, profoundly valuable for students and writers, and fascinating reading in its own right. It provides insights into an incredible range of experiences that would be otherwise inaccessible to the general public. As a novelist -- even one not working on WW2 specifically -- I have frequently used it and would expect to do so again.

    Has the 91Èȱ¬ learned nothing from the infamous tape-wiping disasters of the 60s and 70s? This is just as blinkered and destructive. These first-hand memories of this momentous time in our history are increasingly rare and irreplaceable. They should be protected: indeed, the 91Èȱ¬ should feel privileged to have been entrusted with them.

    Book-burners at least usually acknowledge that what they are destroying is in some way important. To throw away such a wonderful resource so carelessly displays a shocking indifference to history.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 26)

  • Comment number 27.

    Ignore the nerdy discussion of the meaning of TLD.

    The appalling decision making here is to cull the 91Èȱ¬'s URI space because of some misguided necessity for "tidyness".

    Why can't the "tombstone" which will still use the URI space (thus defeating the original unnecessary purpose) have a "Beware, the content beyond this point is old, may be dusty and cause you to sneeze" and then link to the original information?

    If entirely necessary, the interactive parts of these old sites could be disabled so that old and crufty servers can be turned off.

    For a media organisation to delete their archive is philistine in its stupidity.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 27)

  • Comment number 28.

    We looked into possible online archiving solutions but none fitted the bill.

    Really? The UK Web Archive is not a suitable repository even though its stated purpose is "to collect, preserve and give permanent access to key UK websites for future generations"?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 28)

  • Comment number 29.

    I could be wrong here, but isn't this a storm in a teacup? It looks to me as though the Web Archive has already captured dozens of versions of these old pages, though I won't pretend that I've checked very many.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 29)

  • Comment number 30.

    As a former contributor to H2G2, I am annoyed by this window-dressing exercise, it is entirely unnecessary and probably counter-productive, given the low bandwidth and storage demands of most web pages (video and audio are more hungry in this respect, of course). Yet again the need to be seen to be doing something - in this case, apparently deleting content for little in the way of bandwidth or storage savings - gets in the way of the production and consumption of information, education and entertainment. Can we have an assurance that before the bbc dump digital video and audio files deemed 'incompatible' (this is somewhat disingenuous, old media files are almost always importable into new formats and so can be saved) that they will archive all of them for the future?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 30)

  • Comment number 31.

    How can the contents of WW2 People's War ever get superseded? As time goes on, that site gets more and more valuable as time takes its inevitable toll on the people who actually remember the war.
    Also, if that's how you treat content your users gave in the past, what's the point of anyone contributing to memoryshare? You'll just decide it takes too much space and delete that too.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 31)

  • Comment number 32.

    Totally agree with the posts from Sophia Macdougall's and J'au-amne Princess of Darkness. If they 91Èȱ¬ doesn't want this archive, they should give it to someone who will look after it properly.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 32)

  • Comment number 33.

    I too am appalled that /ww2peopleswar is on the list: it's a unique resource, not just for people in the UK but further afield as well. It is irresponsible of the 91Èȱ¬ to have encouraged people to contribute under the impression that the material would remain available, and even more so to dismiss possible archiving solutions because they didn't "fit the bill". Is this because a single solution was sought to deal with a disparate set of archives? If so, I'm not surprised if nothing was appropriate.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 33)

  • Comment number 34.

    Sometimes I am amazed at the 91Èȱ¬'s collective stupidity.

    If I were more cynical I'd say they were deleting stuff on purpose in order to cause maximum public outrage in order to generate support and goodwill towards maintaining their own funding position.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 34)

  • Comment number 35.

    Could we have some more responses from Ian Hunter in relation to the points made above please? (ignoring the already covered stuff about the misuse of the word TLD)

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 35)

  • Comment number 36.

    For those who are interested in 91Èȱ¬ URL definitions - /guidelines/futuremedia/desed/urls.shtml

    I know there is a lot of conflict in the organization about this activity and find it a real shame that a short-term move made by an outgoing boss isn't being given the opportunity for review.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 36)

  • Comment number 37.

    Did anyone consider speaking to YoutTube(google) and seeing if they were willing to host this content there?

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 37)

  • Comment number 38.

    Wow.

    A) TLDs refer to top-level domains, like bbc.co.(uk), or google.(com). What' you're talking about is root folders.
    B) [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] ; done and done.
    C) Hosting for a couple of gigabytes of low-traffic content cannot exceed a few pounds a month, so the argument that this provides "significant" savings is a kind of obvious executive lie.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 38)

  • Comment number 39.

    People commenting here may be interested in

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 39)

  • Comment number 40.

    People commenting here may be interested in this follow up post from Ian Hunter.

    Thanks.

    Complain about this comment (Comment number 40)

Ìý

This entry is now closed for comments

Jump to more content from this blog

About this blog

Staff from the 91Èȱ¬'s online and technology teams talk about 91Èȱ¬ Online, 91Èȱ¬ iPlayer, and the 91Èȱ¬'s digital and mobile services. The blog is reactively moderated. Posts are normally closed for comment after three months. Your host is Eliza Kessler.

For the latest updates across 91Èȱ¬ blogs,
visit the Blogs homepage.

Subscribe to 91Èȱ¬ Internet Blog

You can stay up to date with 91Èȱ¬ Internet Blog via these feeds.

91Èȱ¬ Internet Blog Feed(RSS)

91Èȱ¬ Internet Blog Feed(ATOM)

If you aren't sure what RSS is you'll find useful.

91Èȱ¬ Online in the news and blogs

  • 91Èȱ¬ weather..

    From 91Èȱ¬ Points of View Messageboard

  • From Boards IE

  • From Media UK

  • From Nick Reynolds at Work

  • From Digital Spy Forum

Links to conversations and stories about the 91Èȱ¬'s online activities. The links on this blog and its stream are chosen by Eliza Kessler and Nick Reynolds. Follow on Twitter.

Follow on Twitter

















91Èȱ¬ Blogs and Boards

Find all 91Èȱ¬ bloggers on the

More from this blog...

Topical posts on this blog

Archives

Past twelve months

complete archive

Categories

These are some of the popular topics this blog covers.

Latest contributors

91Èȱ¬ iD

91Èȱ¬ navigation

91Èȱ¬ © 2014 The 91Èȱ¬ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.