91Èȱ¬

It's great to hear that moving the local live radio streams away from Real Player is still on the cards. I was going to listen to the Leeds game last night on 91Èȱ¬ Radio Leeds, but I just gave up after the little iPlayer pop-up told me "To play 91Èȱ¬ Leeds please first install Real Player." (I refuse to install that circa-1996 spyware on my computer).

One other thing, if the all the live streams are going to be upgraded to AAC, does that mean we might see 91Èȱ¬ radio stations listed in the 'Radio' section on iTunes, and maybe even a '91Èȱ¬ Radio' iPhone app?

Can you address the plan for these new streams regarding geolocking? Will listeners abroad need to stay with the real streams and/or wait for the wma streams? Would be great to hear for both national and regional stations if you know.

80kbit/s mp3

You may as well have saved yourself the trouble,absolutely shocking my 91Èȱ¬ licence fee cannot give me at least 128k,while you decide to stick 192k on a chat station called 91Èȱ¬ 7?

Have you experimented with HTML5 audio yet?

AAC streaming is great news. It beggars belief that both streaming formats offered by the 91Èȱ¬ at the moment are proprietary. Will it apply to Radio Scotland though, which at the moment doesn't even have a WMA stream?

I'm also curious about whether the choice of AAC for internet streaming has an element of future-proofing in it, given that DAB+ uses a modified version of this format.

Compare the sound

The shocking 91Èȱ¬ local 80k MP3 stream


/iplayer/episode/p003zwf9/Jazzie_B_14_08_2009/

Against this 128k aac stream for Craig Charles similar music show on 6 Music

/iplayer/episode/b00m5r9n/The_Craig_Charles_Funk_and_Soul_Show_15_08_2009/

I think this is great news for 91Èȱ¬ Local Radio. However can someone please confirm that it is just the on demand and NOT the live streams - its something thats confusing my parents...

Also, is there a set date for upgrading the live streams to AAC, MP3 and/or WMA? Will it be in the next month, or will it be closer to December?

until you upgrade to minimum 128k mp3 like bbc nations or 128k aac national radio, i will not be tuned into bbc local and i ask anyone reading this to do likewise.

Aren't all local stations available via DAB? Could the streams not be encoded from the same signal DAB uses? Or maybe even the NICAM signal sent to the transmitter?

While it's great to see this progress for radio, I'd like to see some regional TV coverage on iPlayer. If I miss South Today, I can't catch up at the moment. It's disappointing; will this be changed at all?

Re: rangersman[QPR] Not listening to these streams isn't going to change anything sooner. You've already been told that the plans are in place, what makes you think they can be brought forward? The only person missing out is yourself.

@ smiler_jerg

Well I have missed out till now and will continue to miss out on a service never been available in decent quality online so cannot see what I am missing out on?

I suggest you head to www.shoutcast.com where lots of oldies streams I use are at 128k and above.
My anger is all I get for my licence fee is eastenders,about time 91Èȱ¬ sorted audio out,only recently they have been playing catch up. Go to www.digitalradiotech.co.uk for an education!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Has this been co-ordinated with the internet radio manufacturers?
Looks like it has not.
James Cridland is only just out of the door.

Any news on when the direct stream links (RealAudio, WMA or MP3 ... or even AAC) will be restored for Local Radio On Demand? The decision (or accident) that removed them at the start of September without warning and the lack of solid information afterwards has removed a highly used facility for thousands of internet radio device users.

@ianmyatt
thanks for the reply Ian.
Roll-on next week ;)

@ianmyatt

Could you not have added WMA without removing RealAudio at all, thus avoiding this unfortunate situation?

The national stations have on-demand in RealAudio, why be different? Or is this foreshadowing a change of national on-demand from RA to WMA?

I notice the 91Èȱ¬ Local listen live 91Èȱ¬ streams have launched today but you have not revealed the bit rate!!!

I note they do not sound as good as Radio 2 aac stream so perhaps you are embarrassed to publish it

I note all the 91Èȱ¬ local stations have now launched on windows media player at 48k mono!!!! By the way it is 2009 not 1959

It's all gone very quiet... literally! I just don't understand how this could have been allowed to happen - OK so it's not something the 91Èȱ¬ HAVE to do but they did do it and as a result many people came to rely on it - now I have technology around my house which is next to useless for our purposes.

Very disappointed!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

So..
I used to be able to listen to 91Èȱ¬ local radio on my Phone (and hence in my car) via realmedia, and my parents could use it to listen to local radio after they moved down south, top keep in touch with their local radio and sports... (via and intenet radio)

Now.. I can't ...
and they can't ...
nice one 91Èȱ¬...
Fingers right on the button there... now only the limited (but trendy) iphone users can listen to it... (how likely is that!!!)

And before you say it I have an N96 with iPlayer, and funily enough the iplayer content is not available via the iPlayer app...

Well done guys ... really well done.

NOT

It was so dreadful the sound quality via real player you are better off with silence now!!!!!




This needs updating!!!!

Another deftly-handled transition with no rollover

I struggle to believe that you cannot go above 80k and have not made inroads into providing a 128k stereo stream minimum for 91Èȱ¬ Local radio,it is 2009 and many years you have had to join up into providing decent audio.
If you can provide 900k for HD tv i fail to understand your problem here.
Why dont you be honest and have been advised not to go above the quality used for dab so you are not seen to backtrack?

I am now somewhat confused by all these recent, suggested, proposed and planned changes.

I listen from outside the UK to 91Èȱ¬ Radios 3, 4 and 7, and sometimes Radio Kent, on my Reciva-enabled internet radios (NOT on my computer!), and sometimes not just the live stream, but also on-demand. So far, I have seen (or rather, heard) a reduction in the bit rate, introduction of WMA steams on the national stations, which take far longer to buffer than the Real streams, and no more Radio Kent Real stream.

What's next?

Will the national stations also lose Real streams (despite Mr. Cridland's statement to the contrary)?

What about these forthcoming AAC streams at 128kbps - will these be available abroad, and listenable to on Reciva radios?

Will on-demand still be available, with the pause/rewind/fastforward features the Real streams facilitates on Reciva-enabled devices?

So have you now moved 6 Music all I get is this error message
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/farm/live24/bbc_ami/6music/6music_nb_int_live.ra?91Èȱ¬-UID=04294a84c46f9ca4aa08ed5270107211e02b77c0a050c164645f69169f8ed007&SSO2-
tride on a couple of PC's same thing I live in Spain!

Well, looks like I typed too soon. Now the National station Real streams have stopped.

All that is left for Reciva radio users (and other internet radio devices) are the WMA streams, which take 20-30 seconds to buffer compared to the one or two seconds taken by the Real streams.

WHY, OH WHY have the Real streams been stopped, esecially before the WMA buffering problem has been fixed?
WHY, OH WHY has there been no warning to listeners?
WHY, OH WHY have internet radio providers like Reciva not been informed?
WHY, OH WHY has the service to internet radio device users been degraded yet again?
WHY, OH WHY?

Well 6 music is back except it now cuts out every 10mins instead or 25mins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHY Because they lack the knowledge

ianmyatt

1/ why have a blog when you struggle to comment and keep people informed.

2/ Do you own a hi-fi so you can connect your pc to one and hear how crap 48k wma mono streams sound
also how 80k aac streams sound so inferior to james cridlands 128 aac national station streams he set up?

How do we get the play again option or have we lost that outside the UK!!!

Another question on behalf of internet radio users.
I used to be able to get Real stream information from Real player on the PC for Radio Lancashire's online cricket commentary and add that to My Streams on the Reciva website. I now find that the commentary is not made available in Real format. Will this be restored, or has it gome for good?

I'm anxiously waiting for a reply from you to questions/comments 31, 33 and 34. What's the point of having these proud blogs announcing so-called improvements when you cannot deal with resulting complaints and queries?

Passing the buck again,why dont the 91Èȱ¬ ask themselves some questions like their failure to provide decent local 128k aac bbc streams when they provide HD for TV that requires far more bitrate.

Can you check that iPlayer is not using the new local radio WMA live streams when in "lower bandwidth" mode as mentioned here

/dna/mbiplayer/F7331803?thread=6947395

and get it fixed, please?

@NickReynolds, 35
My query is with the 91Èȱ¬. They are the ones who switched from Real to WMA without alerting their internet radio and dial-up customers and without ensuring the system worked properly. Reciva has reacted quickly to get the WMA streams working, once they were told by customers (not by the 91Èȱ¬) what was going on. WMA doesn't function properly on my internet radios. I listen from abroad, mostly to on-demand programmes, which used to work well in Real and now are in a complete mess (whether that is a Reciva or 91Èȱ¬ problem, I don't know). Also, a really useful function of the Real on-demand system is the FF, Pause and RW, which I don't believe is available via WMA files - it's certainly not a facility of podcasts or programme streams via Reciva or when listening on line via WMA at the moment.

Yep Newly launched for 91Èȱ¬ i Player purposes I bring you DQ = Dire Quality brought to us by the wonderful 91Èȱ¬ who expect everyone to pay same amount for licence fee and prioritize how they think we the listeners should receive it.


91Èȱ¬ 1 TV Loads of 91Èȱ¬ local 128k streams can be made out of the HD they give songs of praise

91Èȱ¬ radio 3 192k AAC
91Èȱ¬ LOndon 48k wma Mono

What the bloody hell is going on with my licence fee?

If the bbc is going to include important information in these blogs as comments is there no way it can improve the layout.

Maybe having some sort of sticky comment at the top &/or bottom of the comment list. If such a facility is not available maybe use a direct edit facility to create a similar type of effect.

This thread is not too bad it has less than 50 comments, some blogs are likely to attract a lot more, it is then hard to find bbc comment, especially if comments come from anyone in addition to the blogs poster, this includes a comment from NickReynolds At least the iPlayer MessageBoard identifies bbc posters by the name, typeface and mousover.

Hi, as it will be October tomorrow and it mentions somewhere in here that everything was due to be sorted by then, could someone please tell me when I, as a user of an N95 8GB who was more than happy with the Real streams and who is paying a premium for a data plan, will I be able to listen to 91Èȱ¬ Local Radio on my phone again. Thank you.

I and others who I work with live outside the transmission area for our local station. We commute back through the transmission area and listen on our phones for advance travel info. We can no longer do this. We can however pick up rival commercial stations. Which we are doing.

Surely there is an engineer in the 91Èȱ¬ , who BTW is being paid out of license fees, who can sort this mess out.

The 91Èȱ¬ will never have Local radio as long as it refuses to employ local
presenters, ie people who actually grew up in the town not moved there a few years ago, or came from university, how do I know this ? Having lived in a village within a mile from the M1 I offered to work for both Radio Nottingham Radio Derby,Radio Leicester, being refused I did some research
using the Web and found that most of the 91Èȱ¬ local Presenters are imported from around the country in fact local accents were not required.
LISTEN TO YOUR LOCAL RADIO AND SEE IF YOU CAN PLACE THE ACCENT . After a short time you will and the betting is not much of what you hear will be from your town.

#46. At 7:28pm on 01 Oct 2009, newsdogg wrote:

"LISTEN TO YOUR LOCAL RADIO AND SEE IF YOU CAN PLACE THE ACCENT . After a short time you will and the betting is not much of what you hear will be from your town."

I don't hear a local accent in the street never mind on my local radio - 91Èȱ¬ or ILR!

In James Cridlands words,if only Ian Myatt could show the same backbone?

You are aware that I was being forced to adopt 80kbps AAC HE v2
streams for 91Èȱ¬ internet radio, by others who worked within the
corporation. And you also know that I rejected this, and (eventually!)
delivered 128kbps AAC streams for 91Èȱ¬ internet radio within Flash; and
128kbps Windows Media streams for people on wifi radios; and managed
to remove the dependency on Real Networks software, to make 91Èȱ¬ audio
streams available to a far wider audience.

Until recently, I used to be able to listen to Local Radio Stations Listen again service (typically Suffolk & Cambridgeshire) on a dial up connection (48Kbps) using the Real Media Replay Feeds. Now these have ceased I not longer can use the 'Use Low Bandwidth' link at the page bottom. The Flash feed 'use normal version' just freezes up. When are the 91Èȱ¬ going to re instate a 'Low bandwith' option for the Local Radio Replay, as they have with the live streams in wma format or reinstate Real media whilst a solution is developed. The live wma (48kbps) stream incidentally suffers more from 'drop outs' more than the Real streams did. Remember there are times & places where people do no have access to wideband services. The Voice announcement on the Low Bandwidth Live stream for local Radio station keeps promising progress but I see none. NOT ALL of us seek the ultimate quality just some form of usable service, even if we depended on Real Player.

In view of the lack of answers to this Real problem, I’m posting this message that I received today courtesy of a kind Local Radio employee which has obviously been forwarded from the iPlayer team – or as I now refer to them The Chuckle Brothers. The observant amongst you will notice the language used and how they now appear to be distancing themselves from the whole problem. And yes it is a disgrace.

"91Èȱ¬ iPlayer Help pages are available here -

Some of the results are below.







We have never promoted availability of local radio streams on mobile phones. Having said this it is somewhat rewarding that a number of users identified ways to access the streams on real enabled mobile devices.

Our new WMA streams are available to any devices that support windows media. Although we don't directly support any specific mobile devices, our new wma streams are available through a third party application on the iPhone.

In the meantime we are exploring more official ways by which we can support mobile streaming.

We've already seen online consumption of our streams increase by 15% since moving to the new formats - so despite the valid concerns of a number of users it seems the net result is looking very positive."

Internet 91Èȱ¬ Radio 3 on demand has stopped working for the past two weeks - for me on Roberts WM201 using Reciva. There are just old programs there. Radio 4 and Radio 7 continue to operate normally. Can someone fix the link please.

6th October its over a Month now and we still havent got Listen again function on Local Radio outside the UK!!!

Dont really answer much for me

Nick... Thanks very useful link to the Radio Labs Blog.
Answers all my questions. Pity the info wasn't briefed out in advance either via a 'news' tab on iPlayer or to those who registered for iPlayer emails. It would have saved a lot of time. I noticed it was written well after the streams were ceased on Local Radio.
Now for the impossible question... how long will these formats remain, as I've no intention of buying internet streaming devices until I know the 91Èȱ¬ won't keep fiddling and making them incompatible.

So know cant listen to 6 Music with the hew iplayer just keeps cutting out every couple of mins!!!!

The WMA streams lag way behind the flash wrapped AAC streams. Please can we have direct access to the AAC streams so that we can play them on our internet radios?

I'd be interested to know why you chose WMA for internet streams too.

Thanks

K

It now appears you have finally upgraded the 91Èȱ¬ local live streams to 128k aac.

So what is preventing you from giving us the same on listen again? Instead of 80k mp3 streams? Now you are are getting a better live stream what is preventing a 128k listen again like bbc national & Nations?
Been away from the bbc radio set up for a few weeks,cheesed off with lack of info,so been making do with decent streams around the world and youtube but if 91Èȱ¬ get their act together I will come back.

I use a Roberts Stream 202 WiFi radio, which uses the Wifi Frontier portal.
Since the change from Real Audio the portal has not updated 91Èȱ¬ Local Radio Listen Again programs. It is still loading the last of the .ram files from the last week in August.
Roberts are saying that the 91Èȱ¬ made the changes weeks early without informing them and it is a work in progress,what ever that means?
Does anyone have any idea when the new files will become available via the Wifi Frontier portal.
Apart from the inconvenience, what are the copyright issues surrounding programs that can be 'listened to again' over 2 months later?

@RadioFan300

Follow the link in comment 54 above to the RadioLabs blog for the latest info. The 91Èȱ¬ expect to start producing listen-again in WMA format sometime next month, so WiFi Frontier will update their portal after that.

no feedback here as per usual

When you right click on live local feeds it says 128kbits aac? Only on listen again does it remain pegged back at 80k mp3 ???

keep this at the top of
the pile,may get some answers then

Looks like it is working - hurrah
91Èȱ¬ Local Radio On Demand content now available again to Reciva users.

Still painfully slow though Mr Myatt,If I want to listen to any shows from 91Èȱ¬ Local it is still 80k MP3?
I now as from yesterday have a new Amplifier I think it deserves the best treatment & 80k MP3 certainly is not.

I'm sorry to report that the 91Èȱ¬ is letting down their audience. We live in belgium and have the unhappy opportunity to get cricket on Radio 4 (LW) every time the english are loosing somewhere. If we want to receive Radio 4 FM we have to listen via the internet. Sadly enough the 91Èȱ¬ can not fulfill this task because they have changed to Flash, but when we start iPlayer (radio) we get sound for exactly 2 seconds and then the message that 'this service is unavailable'. Why ?
We also have a WiFi radio which seemingly will not be able to receive 91Èȱ¬ anymore after March 2010.

Many thanks to the 91Èȱ¬ from all the exPats.

March 2010 is when the 91Èȱ¬ will switch off RealAudio streams for live and listen-again for the national stations. Radio 4 FM is available live as a Windows Media Audio stream



now and beyond March 2010, if your PC and/or WiFi radio can play that format. R4 FM programmes will also be provided in WMA for listen-again.

Whats the latest state of play?

well then? when are you getting rid of the 80k mp3 listen again format on bbc local?

This post needs deleting,no updates on it and a new post made about 91Èȱ¬ Local radio

Does Ian Myatt still work for the 91Èȱ¬?

AAC+ on 91Èȱ¬ local listen again,still not available

Dear santa can you bring me a decent audio stream for 91Èȱ¬ Listen again on 91Èȱ¬ Local stations?

What has happened to the 91Èȱ¬ local radio live and on-demand links on the Reciva portal. I now have an internet radio that is only of use as a doorstop. Are these links to be restored so that a very expensive piece of kit is able to be used. I live away from the Radio Norfolk reception area and now no longer have access to their programmes. Please sort this out I do not pay my licence fee for this poor service.

Ross revenge...hardly worth commenting. 91Èȱ¬ refuse to answer to their listeners. Still mediocre 80k on listen again local. I want my licence fee refunded!!!!!

It seems that the 91Èȱ¬ local stations are now available on the Reciva portal as 48K WMA streams but on the listen again the pause and fast forward functions do not work. As I have an AE internet radio I now do not know if this problem belongs to Reciva,the 91Èȱ¬, or AE who no longer support this radio which may need a firmware update to fix it.

2010 and 91Èȱ¬ local radio still sounding pants at 80k mp3 on listen again,meanwhile National & nations are 128aac+plus on listen again.

any updates?

I'm currently living in south east asia, how can I listen the 91Èȱ¬ internet radio? Can you tell me what software need to be downloaded?

Sincerely,
Mike

Disgrace this aint been addressed. MP3 80k is not acceptable for Hi-Fi listening on 91Èȱ¬ local listen again. 128aac+ on replay like the nationals.

These changes are set to render my Reciva based internet radios fit for the bin. I rely on these for the 91Èȱ¬ listen again service, and have one in the kitchen bedroom and living room. It is not simply that the pause/rewind/forward buttons do not work which causes me concern; when listening to an on demand show, as soon as you turn the set off it reverts to the beginning again when you switch it back on. This is a DISASTER. Come on 91Èȱ¬, sort this out, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of us with such sets out there, and you are not serving the public by taking away this facility.

86. At 4:15pm on 25 Feb 2010, Langers wrote:

"These changes are set to render my Reciva based internet radios fit for the bin. ..//.. This is a DISASTER. Come on 91Èȱ¬, sort this out, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of us with such sets out there, and you are not serving the public by taking away this facility."

I hope that the 91Èȱ¬ listen to your complaint, it will also set a precedent for scrapping not only the intend switch over to DAB but the television DSO - well the same rational applies, many hundreds of thousands of analogue only (that is, unable to accept an AV input from a DVB STB) receivers that will be fit for only the scrap bin...

I have a Reciva radio and one of the reasons for buying was the listen again function. What is the 91Èȱ¬ going to do about making this work again? We are supposed to own the 91Èȱ¬ it is OUR 91Èȱ¬ we keep being reminded so come on sort this out.

#88. At 8:45pm on 24 Mar 2010, RossRevenge wrote:

"I have a Reciva radio and one of the reasons for buying was the listen again function. What is the 91Èȱ¬ going to do about making this work again? We are supposed to own the 91Èȱ¬ it is OUR 91Èȱ¬ we keep being reminded so come on sort this out. "

Good question, I still have a 405 line B&W TV, what are the 91Èȱ¬ going to do about making that work again, I also have an old AM/LW classic car radio that hasn't been able to pick on Radio 2 for some years, will the 91Èȱ¬ make it work again...

"I have a Reciva radio and one of the reasons for buying was the listen again function. What is the 91Èȱ¬ going to do about making this work again? We are supposed to own the 91Èȱ¬ it is OUR 91Èȱ¬ we keep being reminded so come on sort this out. "

Good question, I still have a 405 line B&W TV, what are the 91Èȱ¬ going to do about making that work again, I also have an old AM/LW classic car radio that hasn't been able to pick on Radio 2 for some years, will the 91Èȱ¬ make it work again...

You taking the !!! This radio is only 2 years old.

90. At 8:15pm on 25 Mar 2010, RossRevenge wrote:

"You taking the !!! This radio is only 2 years old."

Hmm, trying to remain polite, but two years ago the 91Èȱ¬ were already moving away from Real audio streams, the writing was already on the wall...

As for taking the proverbial, no I wasn't, there hasn't been a time in the last 100 years were technology hasn't moved on, formats move on, trouble these days is that last months format is this months deprecated format and next months history lesson.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

any development to hearing bbc local on deman in same quality as the national stations?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I see all the improvements the bbc are making but they continue to only give 80k online for on demand local shows...pretty poor really how long this is taking.

Any updates as despite new 91Èȱ¬ I Player,still getting 80k mp3 on listen again for local radio

Appears no intention of giving a decent bit rate for 91Èȱ¬ Local listen again & my licence fee considered more beneficial elsewhere,just wish someone from the 91Èȱ¬ would say this here.

any updates on the progress of my query?

bump

bump waiting response