91Èȱ¬

Waste of time. Kubica has been out of F1 for too long. By the end of 2012, I'm sure the likes of Di Resta may be ready for a top drive.

If Raikkonen and Schumacher can take multi-year breaks and still come back, so can Kubica, but the issue will always be: is a less-than-perfect Kubica as good as one of the undamaged, up-and-coming new drivers? A quarter of the field are former world champions, and there are several 'names in the frame' for future title wins, so unfortunately for Kubica this is the most competitive the field has ever been. I hope he makes a full recovery and isn't consigned to the history books as one of the 'if only' names.

As much talent as he has, it still remains largely unproven and obviously not helped by time out with terrible injuries. Wish him well in this toughest of sporting environments.

Truly inspirational and I hope Kubica continues to make a good recovery. However, I think he has more chance of getting DLA than a drive in F1. Would love to see him race again, but as already mentioned, the odds are against him with such a talented field of drivers.

Lets face it , even after that massive crash , he like Massa could have well lost his nerve as the fear of having another big crash will make him too cautious in race trim. Most of the F1 pack have pretty fearless drivers and when you have the fear of having another crash like that in your back of your mind , you will be hesitent and will loose speed because of it.

I would love to see him return to F1 , but Ferrari need to have a strong 2nd driver to push the team and Alonso forward. Massa does not have the pace or the nerve to be in that seat any more.

First let's see what 2012 initially brings, particularly as to where the cars are positioned on the grid. It is all conjecture, and we need to see just how Kubica is when he finally get's back into an F1 car. For sure he will be changed, but that does not necessarily mean he has lost any speed so it's a question of how he will adapt to his new self in the car, and of course he has to get on top of the Pirelli tyres. He has a mountain to climb, but mountains are climbed on a regular basis so let's wait to see which team gives him the opportunity to re-position himself mid season.

' with six world champions all taking part, each one of them with a justifiable claim to being an all-time great. '

Really?!!! Fangio, Moss, Schumacher, Button. Spot the odd one out...

Button and Hamilton are so far from being all time greats its a joke to mention them in the same sentance.

Sadly I fear Kubica will never get back in an F1 car, now being out of contract with an F1 team he'd need to have a very understanding team let him test drive a car to see if he can cope. I had always hoped that some one like Max Biaggi would make the switch from motogp or superbikes and repeat John Surtees feat of being world chamion on 2 and 4 wheels.

@ thefuryltd

Moss is the odd one out as he never won the F1 drivers championship?

Did I get it right?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

At 14:06 31st Jan 2012, thefuryltd wrote:
' with six world champions all taking part, each one of them with a justifiable claim to being an all-time great. '

Really?!!! Fangio, Moss, Schumacher, Button. Spot the odd one out...

Simple, Moss, he never won a world championship!!

Stop being so harsh on Button, the guy has won a world championship, he was second last year and delivered one of the greatest drives ever in Canada , this year all being equal, he will enter the top 20 highest number of F1 wins, so he is in very good company indeed.

yes i agree button is great. who got the job moderating these comments? seems like a cushy little number. they should lay that person off and then they ave the money to put F1 on the beeb full time. Disgraceful. Nevermind I got sky anyway. High Definition Sky! Its great that brundle be on there his analogies are wonderful. Anal-ogies? what a curious word

At 14:06 31st Jan 2012, thefuryltd wrote:
' with six world champions all taking part, each one of them with a justifiable claim to being an all-time great. '

I think this will make more sense, Fangio, Senna, Schumacher, Button. Now spot the odd one out...

So as some people are rightly saying Button should be regarded as one of the best drivers in the current field, but as an all-time great........NO CHANCE!

Wishing Kubica well and hope to see him back soon.

Forza Ferrari

10. At 14:47 31st Jan 2012, ballardcrash wrote:
he is far too ugly for formula one

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Have you seen Barrichello recently? Or is the glamourisation of F1 why they're both out of the paddock now? :p

I would love to see Kubica back, but only if he's the same driver he was. He just had such a great knack for pushing the car so far beyond where it should have been. Like at Monaco in 2010, he left Petrov in the same car looking like the world's least talented amateur. But if he can't do that any more, can't be the best driver on the grid on the great drivers' circuits, then I don't see him wanting to go for it at all. Which will be a shame, but there you have it.

Best of luck to the man.

"...with six world champions all taking part, each one of them with a justifiable claim to being an all-time great."

:D

I shall forever remember you for saying that. Thats hilarious.

I stand corrected!!!! I genuinely didnt know that Moss was not a WC and had just assumed he had won. I wont get into the merits of racing in that era but stand by the point that Button is not an all time great unless he wins a couple more champs which is poss but very unlikely.
Of the current 6 WC's only Schumacher is guaranteed to be in the conversation when you talk about all time greats.

It would brilliant if Kubica did recover, it would be sad to see that talent go unforfilled, especially given the barriers he broke through to even get into F1 in the first place.

Talking of Stirling Moss, he was injured, came back quickly, surmised that he couldn't drive at 100% any more and promptly retired. The modern consensus seems to be that he simply returned too early and wasn't fully recovered. He had concussion, so not quite the same as Kubica, but same principle applies. Schumachers still going over 40 so theres no reason for Kubica to rush things. If he can get back to full speed then he'd give any of the 6 world champions on the grid a run for their money.

'Much will be made this season of the incredible strength in depth of the Formula 1 field in 2012, with six world champions all taking part, each one of them with a justifiable claim to being an all-time great.'

I'm afraid that statement simply shows how serioulsly the 91Èȱ¬ takes F1...

How can someone with so little knowledge be 91Èȱ¬ Sport's chief f1 writer?

There is no way Ferrari would allow kubica to be their second driver if he was not 100% fit in body and mind. It is incredibly demanding to drive a F1 car and if he is not fully recovered from his injuries then Massa will stay or another name will come on the radar. Ferrari will want the best two drivers on the grid at all times. That was always their philosophy before the schumacher years, similar to Mclaren and Red Bull. Give them the best car and let the best man win. Kubica can't afford to be a couple of tenths slower than Alonso or anyone else for that matter. Over a grand prix distance he would be several seconds behind and eventually teams would no longer employ him. I personally think he can come back and be up there with the best as long as his hand is fully recovered.

@19 franksm1

Ferrari DON'T historically have 2 equal drivers, and they didn't before Schumacher. Look at Regazzoni ordered to play the support role to Lauda, or even Gilles Villeneuve ordered not to race Scheckter in 1979. Ferrari prefer to have a number 1 and then someone to support him, and maybe win the odd race, but not to compete with the lead driver.

As for Kubica, the heart breaks for the man. It goes to show: do what you like about safety, but driving cars at high speeds will never be wholly safe. Sadly for him there are so many up-and-coming drivers now that it's hard to see him returning ahead of them. Teams will surely opt for Rosberg or di Resta first. A great shame.

At his peak, Fernando 'Dick Dasterdly' Alonso wouldn't have had him at Ferrari anyway. The only decent team mate he has had was a rookie Hamilton, and he licked him.

Andrew, that is a good point (no. 21). Schumacher is undeniably great and Vettel and Alonso arguably already so too. I have no doubt Vettel and Alonso will achieve more in the sport. I think Hamilton needs to prove himself again in the future to be considered great, and the same goes for Raikkonen, delighted as I am to have him back, and Button. I personally think only Hamilton will do so.

An opinion that differs from PaulK's means a lack of knowledge about F1, apparently. It's a matter of time before the 91Èȱ¬ snap him up. The question of 'all time greats' is how many 'all time greats' are there? Button is not in the top five or even top ten 'all time greats', but if there are twenty or so who can be, entirely subjectively, called 'all time greats' then he'd be there or thereabouts for a lot of people who know a lot about F1.
Give Button and Benson a break.
I really hope Kubica can come back as he has so much more still to achieve, but sadly F1 is full of potentials unfulfilled as a result of the sport's dangers.

Just before you all classify Kubica off as a non-returnee... please remember one Niki Lauda. Burned to such a degree that he had the last rites read over him - then a mere six weeks later, he came in fourth at the Italian GP...

Give the boy a chance before you wirte him off!

Strength and honour, Robert...

Too early to say whether or not he'll get back into another F1 car. All the noise so far sound like Ferrari are extremely keen to have him still which is probably also being pushed by Alonso being a close friend of his. I hope to see him back as he's shown promise in the Renault before now. Would be great to see what he could've done with a front runner.

As for Hamilton in a Ferrari... I have more chance of driving their F1 cars. First big problem is that Alonso wouldn't have it, and secondly his readiness to publicly criticise his team might be ok with McLaren but it's a massive sin at Ferrari. I doubt he's impressed them with that this season, he wouldn't fit in with their team philosophy.

Webber's too old now. Ferrari will probably wait and see what happens with Kubica's recovery then weigh their options when they have an answer. If the Mercedes isn't up to it this season then maybe a buyout of Rosberg's contract?

Lets hope he does make a comeback. That would be very interesting to have kubica in a Ferrari with Mr Alonso. I know they are the best of friends, but I am sure if it was to happen would this become a strained relationship giving Alonso's influence over things?

He wont get my seat. Its obviously fernando's thats at risk cos I am so well looked after at ferrari

@22

The only decent team mate he has had was a rookie Hamilton, and he licked him.

Haha thats funny. Im sure they tied on the same points but then again i could be wrong. I personally think there was a lot more going on inside mclaren in 07 than what was actully made public which has also been said by a few inside F1. When it comes to all time greats i think Alonso is the one closest to it on the current grid not inc schumi.

They say were living in the best era in tennis............im sure were not far off in the F1 as well.

If Kubica does come back to F1 it may well be seen as a 'miracle'. If you believe in that sort of thing. Also he was given a piece of Pope John Paul II's robe and some of his blood to help him with his recovery. I can see him returning to some kind of motorsport but not sure about F1, it is perhaps too competetive now.

Just for discussion..my all-time top twenty
Fangio, Ascari, Nuvolari, Hawthorn, Clark, Brabham, Surtees, Stewart, Hill, Rindt, Ickx, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel?.. okay, I've run out..top 17 then.. I'm sure there are others worthy of inclusion..
Also remember there was a time when a racing driver was not just a pampered 'F1' superstar but a real racer who liked to drive sports cars, Indy 500, F2, everything just for the thrill of racing - romanticized I know in today's commercial reality, but relevant nonetheless. BTW, talking of blood'n' guts racers, maybe add Keke Rosberg, Mansell and Villeneuve to round out that twenty, along with Rene Arnoux and Didier Pironi? Also there were legends like Pedro Rodriguez, Jo Siffert, Clay Regazzoni, difficult to know where to stop..top 25 then lol

31: Where's Hakkinen in that list? :)

The first paragraph of this blog is going to make me chuckle for quite some time.

"all-time great" indicates someone that transcends the sport. That means in this instance, Senna, Fangio, Schumacher etc. Button, Hamilton, Raikkonen and even Vettel are not even close to the best in the business.

32: Okay, maybe Hakkinen and also Raikonnen should be in that list, and Stirling Moss. This is an impossible task, but not many of the current crop have yet proved their right to be included, as yet.Time will tell.

I just hope Kubica doesn't become another Trulli/Alesi/Panis and have just one Grand Prix win to his name for the rest of his life. He's a much better talent than that.

Hope to see you back in F1 in 2013, Robert.

To be honest, if Kubica was in the field last season, I doubt he would have got much out that Renault. It is difficult to say as neither Heidfeld or Petrov have that extra burst of pace and consistency, while Senna is quite anomolous at this stage.
I have no doubt that if a team like Ferrari was to look towards another driver in the next couple of seasons, they would be very reluctant to gamble on somebody who has not been driving for two seasons. Especially as their Number Two can make or break a Constructors' Championship.

Also, on the note of spectacular recoveries: When Michael Schumacher broke his leg in '99, he came back, 2nd in Malaysia (though effectively won it) and won the Japanese Grand Prix straight after. Oh, and what happened the conseuent season? He won the first of five consecutive titles.
Also, when Kubica crashed in Canada in 2007, his response was emphatic. I am well aware that this is one of a much larger scale, but Kubica is a born racer, who will always push to the limit.
In the case of Felipe Massa, I never felt that he ever had much bottle or instinct. Obviously he is a talented driver, but even in 2008, he had some appalling races and often buckled when the pressure was on.
Naturally, an accident of that magnitude can affect drivers in multiple different ways. But to me, if Kubica returns, he will be just as formidable as he was. I cannot wait for him to return and prove me right.

#31

Piquet perhaps?

I really hope Kubica comes back from his horrific injuries, but I doubt whether he will regain enough feeling to be able to cope with the forces on the steering wheel. It will be a great shame if he doesn't return, he was showing all the makings of a title-challenger. Interesting to see that nobody so far has mentioned Jules Bianchi for the second Ferrari slot in 2013. He might be a bit of a longshot, but if he impresses on Fridays in that Force India then you never know. Or alternatively Sergio Perez may be considered for the seat, with Bianchi going to Sauber.

kb was a talent before his accident but how much of a talent?was unclear,yes he showed petrov were to go but that is no real benchmark.there are lots of young drivers out there with talent and just need the chance to show it.dont keep carping on about rk a driver that showed promise pre accident but that was 2010 and you dont just recover from something like that overnight,he will probably never be the same driver he was.i wish him well and hope he recovers but doubt very much he will return to f1 a game were you have to be 110%

Di Resta for Ferrari Kubica for retirement

REF 37
You mean Piquet Jnr.? hahahahahaha ..... oh dear ....

Nice one Andrew, but I'm sure the state of Kubica's health is subjective...if you ask Flavio Briatore I'm sure he'd tell you that he's 100% fit and would jump straight back into an F1 car tomorrow ;)

#31 giles villneuve(although not WC), nigel mansell. and vettel will surley be on that list in the future just for the records he's already broken let alone what he should/could achieve in the years to come.
on to kubica, hes gonna struggle to get a seat to start with, and the sport has changed alot already since hes been out and he'll do well to play catch up. If he can get fit he's naturall talent will be the only thing that could get him back to F1.
furthermore hate to say it, but all this talk about 6 WC on the grid is overrated, unless lotus and mercedes can pull a quick car out of the bag then kimi and shuey are just going to be another 2 drivers on the grid and will make no diffrence to the championship. Also massa needs to find the form of 08 to stand any chance of keeping his seat, and just a thought rosberg to Ferrari??

@40 - I hope not...
Di Resta for Caterham along side Heiki [sp] after a great '12 season where they finish 3rd in the Constructors. (behind McL and RBR - if you were wondering)
You heard it here first! (and probably last)

RK is a good driver, but i cant help by think that this time off has raised him to legend status. I would rather have Mark W in my team

As a Kubica fan since the start of his spellbinding career, I've stopped having hope that he'll return, just accepting the fact that anything can be possible. Being in a Ferrari IF he recovers is a dream come true for him, fans and the sport in general, his talent and ability to push the cars to their maximum performance is just wonderful to witness and it would be a shame to not see one of the most underrated drivers participating in motorsport events.

Get better Kubica, F1 is waiting for you.

People have stated here that statistics shouldn't count when deciding 'all time greats' which is why Villeneuve and Moss have their place in that pantheon. However, when listing Schumacher there, despite the long list of achievements and fantastic drivers (in those earlier Ferraris), this is a man that 'engineered' a deliberate collision in the last GP of 94 to claim his first title, running a car that even Senna believed was cheating.

He was excluded form the 97 WC for deliberately causing a collision to try and rob Jacques Villenueve of the title that year.

Who delieberately put Hakkinen/Alonso and countless others on the grass who had the temerity to challenge him.

Who blocked the track at Monaco in qualifying to ensure Alonso could not get pole.

Despite his achievements, as someone else has written, he isn't 2 times better than Senna. Senna was himself a flawed Champion. Yes they can be both included in the list of sporting greats, but with caveats.

You might scoff at Button or his achievements, but at least they have been won fairly and in the manner of a true great like Fangio and Moss.

There is more to this game than just stats. There is more to being a champion than winning. The way you do it is equally important IMO.

I hope Robert Kubica will still have the chance to show that to us. He seems to be made of the right stuff for it..............

Agree with comment 45 but maybe drivers need to be a bit on the edge to achieve greatness? I saw Senna and Villeneuve when I was younger, they were more than fearless they were positively unhinged. Prost never really looked that way on the track, perhaps this is why only about one person lists him here as an all time great, which he certainly was. Jim Clark forever!

I personally don`t believe Robert Kubica will ever be "fit " enough to race an F1 car again...but I wish him the best of luck and hope he proves all of us wrong.
It was a dreadfull crash and he is very lucky to be alive...but there are so many young hopefulls out there itching for a chance...would Ferrari (or any one else) seriously take a risk on a driver, no matter how experienced, that was`nt 200% fit?

Fangio broke his neck in his forties and still came back to win 4 championships in a row 54-57 and his drive at the German grand prix in 57 can without doubt be said as one of the greatest drives ever like senna at donnington in 93
if a guy in his forties back in the 50's can do it, well hopefullly Kubica can, it would be a shame to see a big talent wasted

I would very much like to see Kubic back in F1. He's been unlucky with accidents. Think back to Montreal 2007 Kubica had a mega crash when the car came to a rest you could see his feet sticking out of the end. His rally crash and now susposedly his fall down the stairs or whatever it was.

I bet he won't be great when he gets back like I bet Kimi won't be, as Schummi was. But I won't really know because of Murdoch.

This entry is now closed for comments ...

@45 & 46. At last some sense has been added to the discussion. Thank you, both.

Perhaps it's an anathema to 'modern' sportsmen and sportswomen in this era of what seems to be, in the main, a period of 'the end justifies the means' and the word sportsmanship seems to have slowly but surely drifted out of the lexicon of competitive sport. I find it rather sad.

Just as sad is Robert Kubica's situation. Whilst it is a blatantly subjective observation I looked upon Mr Kubica's performances much as I used to view those of the Scot Jim Clark.

When it comes to the 'Top 20' of drivers I find that sorting such a list is impossible.

"But when the season kicks off in Melbourne on 18 March, there will be a man sitting at home in Europe who could make that line-up even stronger."

Yes, that man sitting at home(*) is the beeb boss, he is sitting at home and could have made the 91Èȱ¬ season kick off in Melbourne with a LIVE race instead of blowing money elsewhere. That would make the 91Èȱ¬ line-up even stronger.
(*) assuming he's at home and not on an expenses paid jolly around the globe ;)

@51 but Jim Clark did it, Kubica only had the potential to do it and it's dangerous to assume that potential would have translated into the domination Jim Clark showed!

Get well soon though Kubie, and watch out for those contracts that stop you from snowmobiling, rallying, dirtbiking, jetskiing, skiing, playing tennis(JPM;) etc...

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Re 46: I'm surprised Prost hasn't been mentioned more. He wasn't always the fall-guy to Senna's genius and often beat Senna. He also had to race in an era littered with top drivers: initially Piquet and Lauda, then Mansell, Senna, Hill and Schumacher. He won the title three times and was always in the hunt. A true great.

Realistically I think that Kubica has lost his chance with F1, he has been far from the F1 for too long and also the last leg incident has further compromised his return. The F1 Teams cannot wait for his recovery but they need to look forward to secure new talent drivers. In F1, as well as in the other businesses, time is money !

I would love to see Kubica back, but as many have already said, the physical injuries are bad enough, no one not even Kubica himself will be able to tell what kind of psychological injuries he has, until he tries it. I don't think it is fair to write him off just yet, but if I were his manager I would try and get him some test driving duties for at least 1 season, before getting him a full time race seat.
Good luck Robert.

Kubica was a great driver when he was driving for Renault but the one question remains is whether if he does come back will he still be the great Kubica we once saw or would he be a guy still struggling to adapt to the car?

If you look at his age, I think by the time he's 30 he could be back to his 100% self but like Raikonnen and Schumacher, these guys were out of the sport for quite a long time, even though Raikonnen has managed to adjust to the climate of F1 very quickly, I think Kubica will have a great problem in trying to adjust himself to the vigourous life of F1

I do hope he does come back as he is being sorely missed - hopefully to Ferrari to replace Massa (I'm a bit surprised Ferrari have stuck by him considering on how poorly he drove last season)

theres a point nobody has mentioned!! what sort of f1 team lets there driver take part in a rally?? f1 is all about fitness and risking an injury is bloody stupid!! also, raikkonen hasnt proved anything yet, because he hasnt been in a race situation, alot of ex f1 drivers could drive fast but until the green light on the 18th march nobody will know!!