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	TX: 27.10.04 - Guide Dogs 听 PRESENTER: LIZ BARCLAY

	听 Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 91热爆 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. 听 BARCLAY Now more than half of the UK's guide dog owners have been turned away from shops, pubs or restaurants in the last five years, simply because they've got a guide dog with them. A new survey for the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association found that half of service providers and 7 out of 10 restaurant managers have concerns about accepting guide dogs. Among them Lawrence Lawford, who is the owner of Hannah's Tea Room in Knaresborough in North Yorkshire. 听 LAWFORD Our big problem is that the actual caf脙漏 is a small one, we only seat 20 people, we cannot possibly get a dog underneath the table and I just can't see where we can actually put the dog. It always poses to me when you have a dog, like we would have had to have the dog in the gangways, for health safety - for my staff and also for other people that are in the restaurant. If I get sued on one side for not having the dog in the restaurant, I'm going to get sued on the other side if somebody gets hurt. The first year that we were in the restaurant we allowed a guide dog to come in and the dog went under the table, there were only two people there, the dog went under the table without any trouble. But then we started getting a smell and we wondered what this smell was and then we found that the dog had vomited under the table, so consequently the caf脙漏 emptied and they were just leaving. You couldn't go up to them and asked them to pay the bill - I wouldn't have paid my bill if I'd have been sat in a restaurant where a dog had vomited. So we had to close. We had to get the department of health and environment to come in to tell us what to do to get rid because of the carpet. And so consequently we put into the policy where we had the dog in the backyard. You've got to weigh up the pros and cons on both sides and this place is not big enough. 听 BARCLAY Lawrence Lawford. Tom Pey is director of policy and development at the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association and he's a guide dog owner. Tom, is this typical of the kind of experiences you've come across? 听 PEY I've been refused access myself to a restaurant, I mean obviously I can't comment on the particular case because I understand it's under review by the Disability Rights Commission. But the simple fact of the matter is yes an accident will occur, very, very rarely, with a dog because a dog can get sick the same way as a human being could and nobody can legislate against that. It's quite easily cleaned up, it seems like a bit of an over-reaction that they called in the environmental ... 听 BARCLAY But in your experience are people turned away mostly because let's say premises are quite small - why are they normally turned away? 听 PEY Normally people are turned away because there is a resistance for people to have a dog on the premises, either for religious beliefs or because they believe that there's some health and safety risk associated with the dog. Now there is no health and safety risk associated with the dog barring very, very rare accidents, guide dogs are groomed everyday, we have exemption by environmental health to go on to premises where food is served and we really never have any complaints. 听 BARCLAY Well Mariamni Makri is about to open a tapas bar in Leeds in Chapel Allerton in Leeds where guide dogs are allowed and there will be Braille on the menu. Mariamni, you're a guide dog owner too, why did you feel the need though to open your tapas bar because you're not a restaurateur by profession are you? 听 MAKRI No, not at all. We just wanted to open somewhere where really anybody could be welcome and I think as a guide dog owner it's very hard when you don't see anyway to then be able to face the world as it is and then once you do pluck up the courage to get out there to be rebuffed, it's very hard to take sometimes. 听 BARCLAY And what about your own experiences, again have you been rejected from restaurants, bars, shops? 听 MAKRI Oh yes, yes no I have been turned away. 听 BARCLAY What was your worst experience? 听 MAKRI I think my worst experience was when I wanted to go for a meal and I was refused and then literally people - diners got up and got involved on my behalf and it just turned into a real debacle and I just wanted a quiet night out really. So that was probably one of the worst. But it is just quite humiliating when you just get turned away, all you want is to have a - to relax and have a nice evening meal. 听 BARCLAY Do you find then that some sight impaired people just accept this type of treatment or simply don't go out at all? 听 MAKRI I think so, I have to say the first six months that I had my guide dog I was very nervous because everyday there would be some occurrence that would - I wasn't expecting because I have a guide dog, so either yes I wouldn't be let into the premises or I would get an awful lot of attention or the dog would get an awful lot of attention. So it's quite difficult and I think it is basically a lack of awareness on behalf of the public and on behalf of service providers that they really don't know how to handle the situation. 听 BARCLAY Tom Pey, would you agree with that, that it's lack of awareness of not only how to handle a situation but of the law? 听 PEY Both. We find that when we go and talk to people who have refused entry to a guide dog or a guide dog owner that when we explain the situation they're more than happy. We had a case last week where a chain of nine restaurants in London one of them refused access to a guide dog owner, we went and spoke to them and they reversed their policy through the nine. Because it's very easy to make an adjustment for a guide dog... 听 BARCLAY And so you're launching a campaign to increase awareness. 听 PEY Totally, I mean what we want for people to do is to say a guide dog is a great benefit, a guide dog is a very, very safe, clean animal, very, very well trained - it takes two years to train them - guide dog owners are trained on how to handle their dogs, allow them on the premises, we do spend money the same as everybody else. 听 BARLCAY Tom Pey from the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association and Mariamni Makri thank you very much indeed for joining us. 听 Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 91热爆 is not responsible for external websites

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