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 | You and Yours - Transcript 91Èȱ¬ Radio 4 |
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| TX: 13.02.04 – DISABLED POLICE OFFICERS THREATEN TO SUE THE METROPOLITAN POLICE FOR DISCRIMINATION PRESENTER: LIZ BARCLAY |
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| THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 91Èȱ¬ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. BARCLAY Disabled Metropolitan police officers are threatening to sue the Met because they say they are being denied promotion unfairly and are not being given jobs that reflect their abilities. They also say that they are frequently being bulled. We were hoping to interview someone from the Met's Disabled Staff Association but they told us in a written statement: STATEMENT Due to veiled threats to our members no individual is willing to appear on the programme. The Metropolitan Police Service Disabled Staff Association desires fairness to all staff and will continue, even if faced with hostility, to seek fairness and to raise awareness. We're unwilling to discuss specific instances of discrimination or bullying of our members at this time as the individuals and the association will be giving evidence to the Morris Inquiry, set up by the Metropolitan Police Authority to look into these issues. BARCLAY Police officers aren't covered by the Disability Discrimination Act at the moment, they will be from October this year, civilian staff, however, are already covered by the Act. Kirsten Hearn is a disabled independent member of the Metropolitan Police Authority - the body which oversees the Met. Kirsten, how concerned are you about the way the Met treats its disabled officers? HEARN Well the Metropolitan Police Authority's very concerned about the way in which a number of officers are being treated from all different communities, which is why we've actually set up the Morris Inquiry. We've heard a lot of stories from disabled staff about what's happening to them and I think it seems to us that there is quite a bullying culture. There is a very macho culture in the MPS and if you're a serving police officer you're expected to be fully fit, if for some reason you're injured or become disabled in any other way you end up often in jobs that are very unsatisfying, feeling very demoralised and because the culture is about the fitness - fitness itself - it's a bit of an issue for disabled staff. BARCLAY Now you say that you've set up the Morris Inquiry, that is an independent inquiry into professional standards and employment matters within the Met and it was launched on the 21st January. But what response have you had from the Met itself when you've raised your concerns directly? HEARN The Met are obviously very concerned, I have to say, in terms of the top management and I would say that the Commissioner is very vocal on the matter of a fair workforce. I think the issue very much actually is staff further down and in different pockets of management. We know that in all organisations there are difficulties but in terms of the Metropolitan Police Service its fundamental culture is at fault and that's what we want to address in the inquiry itself. BARCLAY Well Linda Van Den Hende is director of the Met's strategic disability team and leader on disability employment for the Association of Chief Police Officers. Linda, the Disabled Staff Association, just to pick up on this issue of bullying, has told us that it estimates that around half of its members have suffered bullying because of their disability, they have a dossier of 11 particular cases of bullying which are being submitted to the Morris Inquiry, do you acknowledge that you have a problem with bullying of disabled staff? VAN DEN HENDE I certainly wouldn't acknowledge we have a problem, we have mechanisms within the Metropolitan Police Service - our fairness at work process - which will enable any member of staff, be they disabled or from any other group, to take it through that process and get a fair hearing and therefore there should be no fear of actually taking forward any grievances or complaints that anybody has, be it bullying or anything else. BARCLAY But how successful is that being? We're still obviously hearing these complaints, if the Morris Inquiry's been set up it would seem that that is not going far enough. VAN DEN HENDE The Morris Inquiry I think you will note was actually set up as a result of a whole range of discrimination issues, principally I believe in the area of race, which isn't my field. But certainly it's a very wide ranging inquiry and we support and we will contribute fully to the Morris Inquiry but I really don't necessarily think that the Morris Inquiry would be the best vehicle for individuals to seek particular resolution of their difficulties. BARCLAY While you think that your fairness at work project will deliver? VAN DEN HENDE I certainly think it has the ability to deliver. I mean people may always continue to be dissatisfied with the outcome, I mean that's a matter of human nature. However, there are mechanisms in place for it to be fairly dealt with and within certain timeframes. BARCLAY Kirsten Hearn, another concern of the disabled officers that we've spoken to is that they have difficulty getting promotion, now the Met currently restricts any officer who can't pass stringent fitness tests - health, fitness and safety tests - to office duties. But how realistic is it to expect disabled staff to do operational duties, policing is a very physical job? HEARN Yes some policing's a very physical job actually and the national competency framework itself actually has some quite stringent stuff and some of it's not in the control of the MPS, some of it is actually. But there's a whole range of operational duties that staff - that police officers could do, which don't involve being Rambo cop. BARCLAY Such as? HEARN Such as community safety policing, working with the community, such as investigations - a whole load of things actually and what most of the staff seem to be doing is in the back rooms, a lot of them are doing things like filling in stops forms and things on the computer which is really terrible because it costs so much to train them. BARCLAY Linda Van Den Hende why does the Met restrict disabled officers to those types of jobs when there are operational jobs, as Kirsten says, they could be doing? VAN DEN HENDE Well in fact the - we do actually have a number of disabled officers or people who have restrictions on their abilities doing a range of operational duties but we also have to balance the health and safety of the officer, the officer's colleagues and members of the public and so there's sometimes a very difficult sort of decision to be taken about whether to remove somebody from, if you like, frontline duties. I think it's also worth pointing out that whilst there are stringent fitness tests, as you call it, on entry, unless you go into a specialised group - mounted, firearms etc. - you do not have to have a fitness test throughout your service. BARCLAY There will be changes when the Disability Discrimination Act covers police officers from October, will you be making changes? VAN DEN HENDE Yes, I mean the 91Èȱ¬ Office has set up a whole, shall we say, hierarchy of processes - they have a steering group, they actually have a number of groups, the Metropolitan Police have sown the internal areas and we are reviewing all of our HR policies to ensure we comply. BARCLAY Kirsten briefly, if we've got the Morris Inquiry going ahead, there is this fairness at work initiative and the changes to the DDA are coming in in October, what more do you want to see done? HEARN What I want to see is an acknowledgement that disabled staff are important actually and I would like to see an end to the Rambo cop culture of the organisation. It is an organisation set on militaristic ways, it is actually very difficult for a lot of staff and quite often if you make a complaint you're told to toe the line quite frankly. And I hear the arguments around the fairness at work but I know staff who've got a number of fairness at work issues out who are finding it very difficult to actually get themselves heard and don't feel trustful of the organisation itself because of the way they've been treated. There's a massive confidence issue that we have to address across all ranges of staff. BARCLAY Kirsten Hearn and Linda Van Den Hende thank you both for joining us. Back to the You and Yours homepage The 91Èȱ¬ is not responsible for external websites |
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