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The Tony Martin Interview
by Dominic Arkwright
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The 91热爆 Secretary Jack Straw told senior police officers yesterday that recorded crime is on the way down. You may remember that last week he was booed and jeered by rank and file officers of the police federation. The issue of crime - and policing - is now firmly ON the election agenda. Well, if there's one issue during the last parliament which crystalised the entire debate about law and order it was the conviction, last year, of Tony Martin for murdering a teenager who attempted to burgle his remote farmhouse in Norfolk.
The conservatives promised to tighten up the law on self-defence. Labour accused them of jumping on a bandwagon. And Tony Martin himself became a national figure in some quarters of the public, and the press. For this election campaign we've obtained an exclusive interview with Tony Martin, recorded on the phone from Gartree Prison in Leicestrshire.
Interview Transcript
TONY MARTIN: The only thing I can quote is what I've seen in the papers just lately. It was a poor old boy 77 a war veteran fought for his country. He was having trouble, he rang up the police. They either didn't want to know or they couldn't do anything and the poor man has gone and hanged himself. I've talked to older people and him and things weren't like this years ago. They are totally different. I mean Blair says we are all the same, well I'm sorry I don't think we are all the same. Some of us have got totally different values.
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: Do you feel that the law should be changed to reinforce the right to self defence?
TONY MARTIN: Purely by accident I went to a small meeting which was brought up in my court case. And when I listened to this Farm Watch meeting . . . It was basically 'if you don't join us you are wasting your time ringing the police because they don't take people like you seriously'. And I said to myself, I don't mind if I have to pay another 拢500 a year in rates if I could live a decent sort of life.
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: To get better policing?
TONY MARTIN: Yeah, and my attitude is . . . I'm sorry, at the end of the day the job is for the police to do, not all these outside (groupings such as) Farm Watch, village watch. I mean I know people who are doing Village Watch, they've written to me, and they've got into all kinds of trouble.
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: If the police are not doing their job properly do you think that the law on self defence and the right that people have to defend their property should be strengthened?
TONY MARTIN: I mean I haven't been exactly a wonderful child myself. I've had speeding (convictions) but then I think most people have speeding (convictions). You accept that - but when you want help from the police suddenly there isn't any help. I mean in my own particular case I've gone down a road over several years of giving them lots of information but they won't do anything, so basically you are on your own. Well I'm afraid you are on your own aren't you? There was a meeting the other day. A (Police) Federation (meeting) right, and the police were booing Jack Straw. But at the end of the day there are policemen actually who are beginning to speak up. This Fred Broughton of the Police Federation. I read an article where he said - and he's got it down there - at the end of the day they are talking about 'oh we want another 5,000 policemen' - the Government is saying he says we want another 25,000 - 'but quite honestly you can have as many policemen as you like, (but) if you don't give them proper powers it is like sending a stooge down to see you isn't it?' Isn't that right? Fill-in for what for the real thing isn't it?
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: Do you think that the Labour Party take law and order and the level of policing seriously?
TONY MARTIN: Quite honestly both parties are suffering from rhetoric aren't they? And neither party actually has a policy. All you are getting is rhetoric. It really doesn't make any difference whether the Labour Party gets in or the Conservative Party.
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: So neither of them would be able to deal with rural policing?
TONY MARTIN: Well it's not just rural policing - It's all general isn't it? The Law doesn't understand (??)
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: How do you look back now though on what you did and what happened to you?
TONY MARTIN: Oh I can't go over that. That's 18 months ago isn't it?
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: Have you come to regret it?
TONY MARTIN: As I say this is 18 months ago. I'm - when you get in that situation, tell me about it, right?
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: Are you saying that if that situation arose again you would do something different?
TONY MARTIN: There (are) a lot of people doing a lot of preaching and judging other people. Have the real experience - get in that situation like . . .many thousands of people do . . . unless things change and (if) the rhetoric continues... things aren't going to get any better, and there (are) going to be an awful lot of innocent people caught up in the same situation..
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: Do you accept though that you were wrong now?
TONY MARTIN: You see you are not listening to me - you ask me a question and I've given you the answer. You don't listen. Basically when you get in the same situation you give me your experience right. I've already given mine. It's all well known. So it is no good (if) you keep going over what people have been going over for the last 18 months.
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: I just wanted to ask you whether in that situation would you react differently another time?
TONY MARTIN: You see you are not listening. I answered the question basically when you get in that situation and lots of people do - and I hope you don't - then you can come along and you can tell me. As I said, it's all water under the bridge, it's all been talked about and those that have had the experience they know.
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: I just wanted to establish whether you regret it now you've been in prison?
TONY MARTIN: You're not listening are you? I've told you, hopefully (you will) never get in the situation - if you get in the situation then come and tell me all about it.
DOMINIC ARKWRIGHT: But have you changed your attitude in 18 months?
TONY MARTIN: When you have the experience let me know how you get on . . .
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Tony Martin |
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Charles Clarke and Anne Widdecombe |
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Brendan Fearon who pleaded guilty to plotting to steal from Tony Martin |
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Fred Barras, bottom, left, walks beside the coffin of his son, 16 year old Fred Barras. |
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The stairs in Bleak House, the farm owned by Tony Martin |
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