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Sir Hugh Orde, President of the Association of Chief Police Officers in the United Kingdom, who this week narrowly missed out on the job to become the next Metropolitan police commissioner, has spoken to HARDtalk's Stephen Sackur.

The following are key quotes from this interview. Please credit HARDtalk/91热爆 World News. The full interview broadcasts on Monday 19 September, on 91热爆 World News at 0030, 0830, 15:30, 2030 GMT. The interview was recorded on 15 September 2011

SS: Stephen Sackur

HO: Hugh Orde

SS: Theresa May the 91热爆 Secretary has suggested that perhaps it would improve the quality of policing if senior figures and leaders from other parts of the public sector and private sector as well were brought into the police as leaders, implying that actually the leadership at the moment is somewhat lacking. Better to get non-police into the force to help out with leadership.

HO: Well there are a lot of investment bankers looking for jobs at the moment. Frankly, I don't seem them as police officers. I do not need, as a chief officer, people on work experience.

SS: Proven leaders from other sectors coming into the police force to bring skills to the force that you currently don't have

HO: Qualified to make life and death decisions in a world that is unique? I don't think so. 鈥� Frankly the notion that you can ship someone in and the next day maybe asked to make a decision where someone could lose their lives if they get it wrong, with no training and no background in policing, I think is not a very good one.

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SS: Can we learn from Bill Bratton ( US police chief) who said on the English riots that young people have been emboldened by cautious police tactics and lenient sentencing. Police need more 鈥渁rrows in the quiver鈥� he said referring to the doctrine of escalating force including water cannon, rubber bullets and tasers ..

HO: For one tasers are not used in public order situations in this country. They're entirely inappropriate.

SS: He (Bill Bratton) believes that the arrows in the quiver, to use his phrase, need expanding

HO: Well taser are present in policing in this country. We use them with a heavy heart quite frankly. The British model of policing is fundamentally different to the American one. That's not to say there's not learning but we have to put it in context. I was in the privileged position to advise the Prime Minister (David Cameron) on water cannon and batons. I'm one of the two chief constables serving who used both of those. You used them in certain precise situations none of which were visible in the UK during those riots. You need static crowds and extreme violence neither of which were being featured at the level which any chief officer would require the use of those tactics.

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SS: Bill Bratton says it's crucial when dealing with these disorder events that fear is felt by those engaging in disorder. Fear of the police. Do you believe that young people in those riots were sufficiently fearful of the police?

HO: Successful policing is when the public do not fear the police. Successful policing is when the public trust the cops not are terrified by the cops. When you get to the situation where law and order breaks down, the British model is to use the appropriate uses of force to bring things back to book. I have used lethal force in public order situations in Northern Ireland . There is no impediment to using extreme force when the circumstances dictate. What you saw in my judgement 鈥� I've only got 34 years service, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about) in my judgement the tactics used were appropriate and proportionate. That is why the public post event have such confidence in policing which is going up not down.

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SS: Let me ask you about another way politics is intruding on policing in a very big way. That is the government's budget cuts. 20% cut in policing budget coming from central government. It seems roughly 16,000 police officers may lose their jobs. Do you believe that is bound to have a detrimental effect on levels of crime, on police's ability to do their job?

HO: If you lost 20% of any organisation it's bound to have an impact. The job of the service is to make sure we minimise it. But hard choices will have to be made if you have less officers.

SS: Will crime levels rise?

HO: I'm not in the business of predicting the future. Evidence tells us that in a recession, demands on policing increase and over time crime does tend to increase as well, certainly aquisitorial crime. There's every risk of that.

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