{\rtf1\adeflang1025\ansi\ansicpg1252\uc1\adeff0\deff0\stshfdbch0\stshfloch0\stshfhich0\stshfbi0\deflang2057\deflangfe2057{\fonttbl{\f0\froman\fcharset0\fprq2{\*\panose 02020603050405020304}Times New Roman;}{\f1\fswiss\fcharset0\fprq2{\*\panose 020b0604020202020204}Arial;}{\f208\froman\fcharset238\fprq2 Times New Roman CE;}
{\f209\froman\fcharset204\fprq2 Times New Roman Cyr;}{\f211\froman\fcharset161\fprq2 Times New Roman Greek;}{\f212\froman\fcharset162\fprq2 Times New Roman Tur;}{\f213\fbidi \froman\fcharset177\fprq2 Times New Roman (Hebrew);}
{\f214\fbidi \froman\fcharset178\fprq2 Times New Roman (Arabic);}{\f215\froman\fcharset186\fprq2 Times New Roman Baltic;}{\f216\froman\fcharset163\fprq2 Times New Roman (Vietnamese);}{\f218\fswiss\fcharset238\fprq2 Arial CE;}
{\f219\fswiss\fcharset204\fprq2 Arial Cyr;}{\f221\fswiss\fcharset161\fprq2 Arial Greek;}{\f222\fswiss\fcharset162\fprq2 Arial Tur;}{\f223\fbidi \fswiss\fcharset177\fprq2 Arial (Hebrew);}{\f224\fbidi \fswiss\fcharset178\fprq2 Arial (Arabic);}
{\f225\fswiss\fcharset186\fprq2 Arial Baltic;}{\f226\fswiss\fcharset163\fprq2 Arial (Vietnamese);}}{\colortbl;\red0\green0\blue0;\red0\green0\blue255;\red0\green255\blue255;\red0\green255\blue0;\red255\green0\blue255;\red255\green0\blue0;
\red255\green255\blue0;\red255\green255\blue255;\red0\green0\blue128;\red0\green128\blue128;\red0\green128\blue0;\red128\green0\blue128;\red128\green0\blue0;\red128\green128\blue0;\red128\green128\blue128;\red192\green192\blue192;}{\stylesheet{
\ql \li0\ri0\widctlpar\wrapdefault\aspalpha\aspnum\faauto\adjustright\rin0\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af0\afs24\alang1025 \ltrch\fcs0 \fs24\lang2057\langfe2057\cgrid\langnp2057\langfenp2057 \snext0 Normal;}{\*\cs10 \additive \ssemihidden 
Default Paragraph Font;}{\*\ts11\tsrowd\trftsWidthB3\trpaddl108\trpaddr108\trpaddfl3\trpaddft3\trpaddfb3\trpaddfr3\trcbpat1\trcfpat1\tblind0\tblindtype3\tscellwidthfts0\tsvertalt\tsbrdrt\tsbrdrl\tsbrdrb\tsbrdrr\tsbrdrdgl\tsbrdrdgr\tsbrdrh\tsbrdrv 
\ql \li0\ri0\widctlpar\wrapdefault\aspalpha\aspnum\faauto\adjustright\rin0\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af0\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \fs20\lang1024\langfe1024\cgrid\langnp1024\langfenp1024 \snext11 \ssemihidden Normal Table;}}
{\*\latentstyles\lsdstimax156\lsdlockeddef0}{\*\rsidtbl \rsid78421\rsid158588\rsid215074\rsid275874\rsid280489\rsid395740\rsid607275\rsid878362\rsid1071750\rsid1252434\rsid1318844\rsid1577703\rsid2381867\rsid2574129\rsid2588196\rsid3019632\rsid3040070
\rsid3096277\rsid3301716\rsid3309042\rsid3566395\rsid3866986\rsid4003089\rsid4064399\rsid4206000\rsid4541171\rsid4730547\rsid4984435\rsid5207074\rsid5334450\rsid5388572\rsid5464068\rsid5468297\rsid5582549\rsid5780796\rsid5864162\rsid5903226\rsid5963991
\rsid6060945\rsid6177530\rsid6239841\rsid6241684\rsid6310185\rsid6376775\rsid6377463\rsid6437376\rsid6440819\rsid6496605\rsid6750851\rsid6775171\rsid7152143\rsid7345223\rsid7362797\rsid7537020\rsid7810730\rsid8212735\rsid8722696\rsid8794702\rsid9000209
\rsid9240949\rsid9455620\rsid9910810\rsid10232768\rsid10299719\rsid10306581\rsid10308613\rsid10510062\rsid10637674\rsid10693467\rsid10750224\rsid10761303\rsid10824536\rsid11417239\rsid11418768\rsid11671390\rsid11811087\rsid11885103\rsid12133591
\rsid12332735\rsid12785437\rsid12871132\rsid12915620\rsid13109167\rsid13135200\rsid13260260\rsid13566303\rsid13638064\rsid13648330\rsid13653416\rsid14054083\rsid14187720\rsid14551690\rsid14646274\rsid14901723\rsid14946974\rsid14958969\rsid15022658
\rsid15029145\rsid15665251\rsid15881577\rsid15947973\rsid16187857\rsid16258000\rsid16277142\rsid16324706\rsid16450588\rsid16456889\rsid16541663\rsid16663960}{\*\generator Microsoft Word 11.0.0000;}{\info{\title Ouch Talk Show #58 \'96 November 2010}
{\author slippd02}{\operator slippd02}{\creatim\yr2010\mo11\dy2\hr14\min48}{\revtim\yr2010\mo11\dy2\hr14\min49}{\version1}{\edmins1}{\nofpages18}{\nofwords4617}{\nofchars26317}{\*\company 91热爆}{\nofcharsws30873}{\vern24615}{\*\password 00000000}}
{\*\xmlnstbl {\xmlns1 http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/wordml}{\xmlns2 urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags}}\paperw11906\paperh16838\margl1800\margr1800\margt1440\margb1440\gutter0\ltrsect 
\widowctrl\ftnbj\aenddoc\donotembedsysfont1\donotembedlingdata0\grfdocevents0\validatexml1\showplaceholdtext0\ignoremixedcontent0\saveinvalidxml0\showxmlerrors1\noxlattoyen\expshrtn\noultrlspc\dntblnsbdb\nospaceforul\formshade\horzdoc\dgmargin\dghspace180
\dgvspace180\dghorigin1800\dgvorigin1440\dghshow1\dgvshow1
\jexpand\viewkind1\viewscale100\pgbrdrhead\pgbrdrfoot\splytwnine\ftnlytwnine\htmautsp\nolnhtadjtbl\useltbaln\alntblind\lytcalctblwd\lyttblrtgr\lnbrkrule\nobrkwrptbl\snaptogridincell\allowfieldendsel\wrppunct
\asianbrkrule\rsidroot3866986\newtblstyruls\nogrowautofit \fet0{\*\wgrffmtfilter 013f}\ilfomacatclnup0\ltrpar \sectd \ltrsect\linex0\headery708\footery708\colsx708\endnhere\sectlinegrid360\sectdefaultcl\sftnbj {\*\pnseclvl1
\pnucrm\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxta .}}{\*\pnseclvl2\pnucltr\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxta .}}{\*\pnseclvl3\pndec\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxta .}}{\*\pnseclvl4\pnlcltr\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxta )}}{\*\pnseclvl5
\pndec\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxtb (}{\pntxta )}}{\*\pnseclvl6\pnlcltr\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxtb (}{\pntxta )}}{\*\pnseclvl7\pnlcrm\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxtb (}{\pntxta )}}{\*\pnseclvl8\pnlcltr\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang 
{\pntxtb (}{\pntxta )}}{\*\pnseclvl9\pnlcrm\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang {\pntxtb (}{\pntxta )}}\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri0\widctlpar\wrapdefault\aspalpha\aspnum\faauto\adjustright\rin0\lin0\itap0\pararsid3866986 \rtlch\fcs1 \af0\afs24\alang1025 
\ltrch\fcs0 \fs24\lang2057\langfe2057\cgrid\langnp2057\langfenp2057 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid3866986\charrsid3866986 Ouch Talk Show #58 \endash  November 2010
\par bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast
\par 
\par Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr
\par 
\par The Ouch Podcast is a download from the 91热爆. For more information, and our terms of use, go to bbc.co.uk/ouch.
\par 
\par [Jingle 
\par O U C H spells Ouch]
\par 
\par MAT\tab Welcome all, it's November we hope you got through Halloween without being exorcised or taken back to the Zom
bie freak fayre by mistake. On the show today we'll be chatting with Garry Robson from a BIG international disability arts festival about to start in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}Liverpool{\*\xmlclose}. And Liz...
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Food yeah how accessible is it, it is just spaghetti and peas that cause the trouble or what. Plus later we'll be playing Vegetable, Vegetable, or Vegetable with a contestant in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}
{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname country-region}}Japan{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose}. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It will be a veritable tempura of questioning. And it's official, from now on the Talk Show comes out twice a month. TWICE A MONTH! Who knows by this time next year we might be doing them twice a day, Liz. 
\par 
\par [Jingle: From the 91热爆 in {\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname place}}{\*\xmlopen\xmlns2{\factoidname City}}London{\*\xmlclose}{\*\xmlclose} it's the Ouch Talk Show with Mat Fraser and Liz Carr]
\par 
\par LIZ\tab What foods do you avoid, Mat, come on there's got to be some with your little flippers.
\par  
\par MAT\tab Well ye
s well known and I think I've already documented on this very podcast thalidomide people, the short armed flipper variety and cheese fondue. Basically never serve a cheese fondue to thalidomide people like that unless you live near a burns unit in a hospi
tal. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is this because of the little arms and the closeness to fire? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Well you have to lean... What do you do with a cheese fondue? There's a massive great pot of molten cheese in the middle and some presumably quite stale white bread that you're g
iven because it's Monday and they didn't get any fresh in. And you lean forward and spoon the gunge onto the thing and then feed it to yourself. How are you going to do that a) with no thumbs; and b) with very small flippers and no arm length? You're dipp
ing in like beak bird from one of those '70s cards. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab How showbiz have you become talking about fondue I don't know. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Does one... do you not have fondues? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Does everyone not have fondue? And how '70s of you. I don't know. Of course last time, last show we asked listeners what did you find inaccessible about food and you have written in, thank you for this. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh my God look at this. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Quite a lot of people on our Facebook fan page, you can find that if you are writing in you'll find us on Facebook at Ouch 91热爆.
\par 
\par MAT\tab We've got one here from Alison Chapman. "It doesn't matter what it is I always manage to spill it down my front." I think as a disabled person who needs to eat you need to have a very good washing powder don't you? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yes, no it's true. There's certain foods I mean... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab A plastic bib although unfashionable, quite useful.
\par  
\par LIZ\tab Yeah but would you, would you? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Would it collect all the bits at the bottom and then you've got like another meal for later. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You know last month or the week before or whenever we are now, I've lost it with this every two weeks thing I don't know where we are, and we were talking about wearing shoes or not wearing shoes. And there's never... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah the wheelchair users should you wear shoes or not? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And I'm just wondering if wearing plastic bibs is in the same league as that? It's never going to be okay to wear a plastic bib. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You've turned into a fashion fascist, Liz, since you've got a regular job, do you know that?
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I know and I'm only wearing a polo neck myself today, do you know what I mean? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Nothing else. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I'm not looking that dapper. Not looking that dapper. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I like the next one though. Go on. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Have you got... oh trauma doll - chips. I love this one. "One of the worst thing about beginning to use crutch for her" she says, "was the difficulty of eating a bag of chips while walking home." But now she's r
ealised how to do it if she wears a messenger bag, so a bag across her chest, she puts the chips in there and eats them one handed. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Right. Now go back to the bib, the bag or the big? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh the bag's fine. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab So having a bag, basically let's face it, like a horse bag, say you're delving around in your bolty bag, if you like, you've got a bucket bolty bag of food. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Your cripple nosebag. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah you've got a cripple nosebag in front of you, delving around in it "Oh what have I got here?" 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's really useful though.
\par  
\par MAT\tab You've got your mobile in there. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I get the same as a wheelie because if I'm driving my electric chair with my right hand, how do I eat because right's my dominant hand.
\par  
\par MAT\tab Well funny you should say that and going off on a slight tangent here, but what about John Kelly who I believed you interviewed the other day.... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's right. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... was in the show with me and Garry, the Ian Drury show. He uses his elbow, holds the mic stand with two hands and then uses his elbow to do the... Look at the massive joystick you've got. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I have got a big one. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That is a huge joystick you have, Liz. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Thank you. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I'm not saying anything at this point.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I'm going to trump you in your... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Something envy you know what I mean? Anyway go on.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... in your fondue and that's what's difficult for you. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Trump my fondue, raise my fondue...
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I'm going to raise your fondue with a bit of sushi. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Ah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I am and anything in actual fact, probably not just Sushi, that involves using chopsticks. Aren't they the bane... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Here we are, finally we get to it. Let's talk about chopsticks people. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Do you just spear? Do you just use them as spears and cut out the middleman? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab So it's basically acting like one giant fork prong?
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah. It's like going back to sort of Neanderthal man. Push the chopstick in, reach to mouth that's the way I use them.
\par  
\par MAT\tab So at this point I'm duty bound to tell you a very quick \endash  don't worry, producer \endash 
 story about when I agreed to meet Mary Duffy, my no armed friend, in London. "Where shall we meet?" "Oh let's meet in the Chinese restaurant" she said, not thinking what about the chopsticks. So I met here there on a Monday lunchtime, we were the
 only customers.
\par   
\par LIZ\tab Thank goodness really. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab 
The waiting staff at the Chinese restaurant were intrigued, it has to be said, intrigued by the prospect of a flipper person and a no armed person and they of course, I mean had obviously done some kind of disability awareness thing, proffered all the 
cutlery known to mankind at us, which I took availed myself of the knives, the forks, and the pusher \endash 
 everything. And she was like, "No, no I'll be fine with chopsticks." There's an uncomfortable silence as both me and the waitress go, "Oh okay." She's ordered the sloppy soup thing with the noodles and everything. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You see I'd have stared, I'd have stared. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I was staring. I could because I'm a friend of hers. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Of course. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I was open mouthed staring as she deftly with her toes snapped th
e chopsticks apart, got one twixt fore toe and big toe and started to spoon this stuff into her. I looked up there were four heads coming round from the kitchen door, one on top of the other like in a cartoon, all looking with total amazement. I looked up
 the waitress was amazed, I was amazed, we were all amazed. Yes the armless lady \endash  I'm going to cry, Liz \endash  was using chopsticks to feed herself. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab She wasn't poking her food. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It was almost as moving as the armless pianist that just won China's Got Talent. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Really? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Have you not seen that? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I suggest you look at it on You Tube. We've somewhat gone off the food theme. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No we have. Because I was thinking that it's not just that we go oh it's the real physical impairment s
tuff. We were so wrong when we put out the call to listeners because we got some fantastic emails from people talking about their food access difficulties. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Read that next one, that's brilliant. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Charlotte who's just in France, don't know where more specific. Most inaccessible food \endash  try eating rice or couscous when you have severe OCD which means you have to count everything you see. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Potatoes for her then. Easier to count five isn't it than five thousand. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Man, how long would eating take? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab A long time if you had to count each couscous pellet. Mind you the digestion of your food would be a lot better. Because they do say eating slowly is good for you. It makes you healthy. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's true. We haven't had any blind people write in.
\par 
\par MAT\tab I don't know but we've got our resident blindies... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We do have our resident... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab ... why don't  we just ask Emma.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Emma? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Why doesn't Emma come in? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Emma wasn't here when we recorded the last show so we couldn't invite her in, but we're going to today. She's making her way blindly in. Someone's helping her obviously. She's not eating. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I wouldn't ask her about potatoes or couscous by the way, being Irish. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Don't ask her about potatoes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Pretty obvious.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Let's not make any assumptions. Hey Emma!
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Hello. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Potatoes are totally equal, just so you know, Emma. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah we love all potatoes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Left a bit. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab She's trying to make her way... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh here we go again. Left a bit. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's lovely. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Wow isn't it amazing how they can always find their way. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So come on, Emma, as a blind person what are your food access problems? 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Well do you know what it's not so much the food but it's the stuff that goes with the food, so garnish. I don't like garnish. I've eaten more garnish than anyone I think I've ever met. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Why I don't understand? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Well it's gets in the way. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Because it gets in the way and you don't know it's garnish and then you eat lots of parsley and random planty stuff. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab But that's good for you. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Yeah but it's not very tasty. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yes but you can't only eat the meat and the potatoes. You have to eat the little bits of lettuce that comes as a garnish. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No but a woman cannot live on parsley and lemon slice alone can she?
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Yeah exactly. The amount of lemon wedges I've stuck in my mouth, honestly!
\par 
\par LIZ\tab See. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And therein lies a story. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab And you know the other thing is stuff that's in or encasing food, so shells, bones all very difficult. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Such as prawny things. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Cannelloni? 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Cannelloni's not so bad.
 The old chestnut the spaghetti that's the difficult, you know, deceptively long or food with a very long end on it so you think you've got everything and you put it in your mouth and then you end up going [slurping noise] and it's a bit disgusting. 

\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay. So best and worst food for you in terms of access not flavour?  
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Best food - sandwiches. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Easy, self contained. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You see this is the other thing. I think that dietary preferences and impairments have a lot in common. My friend, Philip
 Paxton, New Zealand comedian, has got middling Cerebral Palsy I suppose you'd say, he loves instant, frozen ready meals. He accepts that they're nutritionally lesser than scraped and peeled fresh veg but he's like, "I need to work I haven't got seven hou
rs a day to prepare food." 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So he's evolved. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab So his food diet requirements have evolved to access his impairment. Is the same with you?
\par 
\par EMMA\tab I wouldn't like to think so, I'm very foody, I love food, and no I don't think I'd settle but definitely out for a meal my blindness helps me choose my dish depending on who I'm with I guess. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab So first date scenario and I know you're happily what
evered but just imagine you're on a first date wanting to impress. There's a sighted person who's not that used to dining with blind people, little bit of nerves first date, first night what do you choose to eat, you can have anything you want, you're at 
Claridge's? 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab To be honest I think it would be something pretty much fork only. So like chicken curry or penne pasta with something. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Or sandwiches. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Something that I can... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Or sandwiches. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Or sandwiches. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab They make very nice sandwiches at Claridge's. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab And my starter would be something I could pick up probably, that would be socially acceptable to pick up. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab With the fingers in the mouth. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab And I probably wouldn't have a dessert because that's just too difficult. Isn't that sad? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I'm almost crying. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab You asked me about my worst food \endash  bony fish, you know fish with millions of little bones. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Anyone, Queen Mother, anyone isn't it? 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Isn't she dead, Liz? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab She what?
\par 
\par MAT\tab The Queen Mother. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Isn't it because of the bone? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh she died of a fishbone? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I can't remember now, it was a long time ago. Emma, now we've got you in here, the last time we asked about where we were in the iTunes chart, we're very excit
ed, we asked listeners to download us more, spread the word, Emma, where are we this month? 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Last check we were... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah go on.
\par 
\par EMMA\tab One hundred...
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And?
\par 
\par EMMA\tab ... and thirty two. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hey? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Hey!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Come on that's better than under a hundred... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is that good? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Brilliant, Liz. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I can't remember where were we the time before? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab There's only a hundred and thirty one people... 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab We're listed. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is it good? 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab It's good. I think it could be better. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab It could be better couldn't it? 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab It definitely could be better. Everyone should pass it onto their friends... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Come on listeners. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab ... and family and everyone they know. It would be really nice to get under the hundred. If we could do that we'd be really pleased. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's what we need for the Christmas podcast if we can get under a hundred that's our aim. Listeners, help us get there, you know how to do it. Pass it on. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Tell a friend, tell your parents, tell everyone you know. Be the nutter at the bus stop shouting about it. 
\par 
\par EMMA\tab Post it on your social networks. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Bother your parents about it, it doesn't matter whether they really listen, just get them to download it then we feature in the charts. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab [Crying and singing] If you're happy and you know it clap your hands. If you're happy and you know it clap your hands. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Mat's having a bad day. Sometimes he really lets his disability get him down. But I know how to make him feel better. Hey, Mat!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab See your ability not your disability. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab What? Oh I see. You're trying to use wordplay. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab The Ouch Talk Show is dispatched twice a month from bbc.co.uk/ouch. It's not distasteful and isn't disastrous. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Why are you doing this to me, Liz? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We're joined by disabled actor, writer, director, producer the multi talented what doesn't he do Garry Robson. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Thank you very much, Liz, a lovely introduction. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah I didn't know what to exclude from that there's so many things Garry. Welcome. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Father, lover. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Really? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Oh occasionally. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Occasionally. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hopefully with different people. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab I love fathers. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Actually, Garry, we've been just talking about inaccessible food. I'd thought I'd run this very short listener email past you, because it's almost arty in its beauty and brevity and it's sl
ightly weird, and I think you of anyone can handle the concept. It's from Box in Cardiff and she says, "I avoid all foods with a hint of purple, like beetroot and blueberries, as I have Synesthesia and purple is Monday. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Wow, I love that. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Isn't that beautiful.
\par 
\par GARRY\tab I love beetroot. And I have a major problem with that, I adore beetroot, I'd have beetroot on everything given half the chance. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Pickled or non pickled? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Both. I just love them all. Beetroot is my vegetable, or is it a fruit I don't really know. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It's a root veg I believe. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab It's a root veg I kind of love it. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And what colour is Monday to you, Garry? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Monday to me at the moment is slightly grey. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Slightly grey. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab It's been a hard weekend. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Do you consider Synesthesia a disability or a creative outlet, Garry? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab I see it as an art form potentially, Mat, I think it would be interesting to develop. I mean I know times are hard but I'd put in for a grant to develop that. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab And if anyone could get it, you could. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab It would be absolutely fantastic. Well who knows. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab My personal hate foot is pistachio nuts. They're the most inaccessible thing I've ever known. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is this because of the thumb thing? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It's partly a thumb thing and I don't know what it is, yeah it probably is. Garry, what's yours? Interested to know. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab What my inaccessible food? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Impairment based inaccessible food. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab God, I kind of eat everything but as I get older shaky hands I think anything I have to open is a problem at the moment really. Any little packets I don't like little packets. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Packets, bananas, cans. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Cans I seem to manage with I don't know why that is. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh funnily enough. Ever done any work around inaccessible food then, Gary? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab I've never no. I could see a ballet appearing. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab With that one legged guy from China. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab I love him. And there was the armless pianist you were pointing out a little earlier. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That is a... 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab He could work. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab There's a gig and a half coming up, it's that musical about inaccessible foods, written by you, Garry, with you in it starring the one legged guy from the ballet, and the music played by the armless pianist. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab That's a hit, Mat, this is just what the cultural Olympiad is looking for. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Called Sushi. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Sushi. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Sing-a-long-a-Sushi I think. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Sing-a-long-a-Sushi. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab The Way of the Beetroot. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Seeing creative potential in pretty much everything then, Garry... 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Absolutely. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... is your job and what you're doing at DaDaFest International that's coming up in November and December. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Yeah indeed. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab  It is the most diverse programme or performances and disabled people and artists from all other the world. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab DaDaFest stands for Disability and Deaf Arts Festival. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Absolutely. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It's been going for about ten years and what was it about three years ago, Garry, when you came onboard? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Yeah 2008, Mat, because Liverpool's capital of culture, they got a lot more money in and decided to go bigger in an international way. So every second year now it's an international festival and that's why I'm back in 2010 to direct this one. 

\par 
\par LIZ\tab Not getting too arty about it, you've got a bit of everything for all sorts by the looks of it. I mean you've got programming that relates to gay disabled people, older disabled people as well. But a lot of it
 what impressed me I think and we were talking about this earlier is that it's quite a funky programme as well it's got a lot of stuff that will hopefully attract younger people that's been excluded from a lot of festivals in the past. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We see something in light of Krip Hop with LeRoi Moore, what is Krip Hop, who's involved and what's the show going to be, would you tell us please? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Yeah, sure. Krip Hop is Hip Hop... well Hip Hop tends to be rooted in where people are coming from. So like Dizzee
 Rascal when he first began the stuff about being a guy growing up in the East End now he's a wealthy man he makes it about going on holiday and stuff like that. And Krip Hop is similar. Krip Hop is made by deaf and disabled DJs throughout the world and i
t
's Hip Hop that's coming from their own roots, from their own lives. So we've got people coming from all over; there's LeRoi Moore who's coming from the States, beautiful poet, beautiful rapper. We've got Ronnie Ronnie who's coming from Uganda, he's an Af
rican Krip Hop artist. He's actually done us a DaDa anthem which is fabulous, which is available. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is it the theme tune of the festival... 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Theme tune of the festival. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... pretty much? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Yeah which we're really excited about. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Will that be available as a download? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Well we're working on that at the minute, Mat, it'll be either be available on disc or as a download at the festival. It's been used as a soundtrack for one of the 91热爆 DaDa Vision films which I just got the othe
r day, it's just been completed the first take on it and it's really great. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab 91热爆 DaDa Vision films what do you mean? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab You know the big screens, the 91热爆 big screens? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay yeah in different capital... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh in public squares and things like that. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Yeah you've got it. We're commissioned two new pieces, two short films to go on the 91热爆 big screens. And one of them is a piece that uses Ronnie Ronnie's Hip Hop track, and another is Simon McKeown who
 I think you both know, who's doing a wee film that involves Claire Cunningham. And they'll both be on the 91热爆 big screens. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So when is it? Where is it? Howe can we find out more about DaDaFest, Garry? 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Okay. Well it's in Liverpool and Scotland
. And it's running from the 12th of November it starts in Scotland, 18th of November in Liverpool, running right through until the 3rd of December. And the best way to get information is the website, which is www.dadafest2010.co.uk or to ring 0151 707 173
3.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh and in such a great voice. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Fantastic, Garry. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh I'll be ringing.
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh yeah I'll ring just to listen to the voice. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Garry, thank you so much. 
\par 
\par GARRY\tab Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Rob? 
\par 
\par ROB\tab What? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Don't you think disability is so misunderstood?
\par 
\par ROB\tab S--, sorry? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I was just saying, don't you think disability is so misunderstood. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Dis a what-er-ty? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Disability. 
\par 
\par ROB\tab Oh sweet Jesus don't make me think about cripples.
\par 
\par MAT\tab bbc.co.uk/ouch demystifying disability.
\par 
\par [Jingle: Now it's time for Vegetable, Vegetable, or Vegetable ]
\par 
\par Yes it's our quiz where we guess what's wrong with the caller on the line. And today it's Grace in Osaka, Japan. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Hello, Grace. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Hello. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab This is a long way away. How are you today? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab I'm good. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Why have you done this? Why have you called us up to do this? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab I'm from Japan TV
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh right. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab I was working on internet. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So you know what we're about. So I was reading that you present a show over there called Shine On. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Shine On. Let me try, let me try and pronunciation, Liz, here we go.  
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay go for it. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I probably will get this wrong, Grace, but tell me... 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay here we go your programme is called Warate-ekay-amo\endash ph Apparently not. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I guess that was good then. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay I've got that wrong. Oops, did I just say something else apart from Shine On? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab How would you say it, Grace? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You say it for us. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab [speaking Japanese]
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I think you were quite close. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Close enough. No I probably said something really offensive. It wouldn't be the first time. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab But it translates as it may be okay to laugh? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Okay. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I think that's what... 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab It means like you can laugh if you want kind of. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab So do you think that the Japanese population are ready to laugh about disability now? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yeah I think. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay. Now I notice because I'm a keen martial artis
t and I've been looking all my life for somebody with a similar impairment to me that I could have a full contact fight with, indeed if there was anyone in Japan that could do that, I could come to Japan and have the fight because it would be so interesti
ng. Now you used to be a judo player I see and represented the United States. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes, yes, yes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Not Japan? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Not Japan. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Now how come? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Because my Mum is American. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Okay. So you got in. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab How did you do? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yeah I have a... what? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Were you a good judo kai? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab I used to be a first nation. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Wow!
\par 
\par GRACE\tab All American. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab And, Grace, tell us then what's it like being a disabled person in Japan? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Or a disabled woman in Japan.
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Oh yeah. For me I feel like it's more hard for me to live in Japan with the disabilities. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Right. Harder than in the United States? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab It was fine because people just make me laugh and it was like just a friend even though I was disability. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So how is it different in Japan, not as many friends or is the access bad, or what's different? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab People just think that disability people they feel sorry about it. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So you get the pity? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab The pity and the charity. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes, yes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh bless you.
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes, yes, yes it's like that, yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab It's funny isn't it. The world over that's how people see disabled people I think.
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Really? Is it in British too? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh yes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Very much. But we're trying to change that here at the Ouch podcast and I'm sensing, Grace, that your television programme is trying to change that as well. Is that true? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So are you... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We're like cousins. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yeah it's like cousins. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Are you ready for this game then, Grace, are you ready for Vegetable, Vegetable, or Vegetable? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes I'm ready. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab What have we called it, Mat? Didn't we have Japanese vegetables? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We did. Now what was it, hold on I've got it. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We've had, hold on. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We had bean curd, Wasabi and Tempura. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's our version. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Thanks for politely laughing. I know that wasn't very funny. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We know that tempura is just deep fried but we couldn't think of anything else. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Tempura.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's it. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Tempura. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Tempura.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab You'll be practically fluent by the end of this. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I know. I'm going to move to Japan. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Absolutely. Right are you ready. Read the rules. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab 
Okay, here we go. Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game the two hosts of the Ouch Talk Show have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller 
on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must answer only \lquote yes\rquote  or \lquote no\rquote . It is both classic and therapeutic.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab To take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game the rules clearly state you have to be disabled. Grace, are you disabled?
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes I'm disabled. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Right. There are 90 seconds on the clock, Grace, and your time starts NOW!
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Grace, do you have legs? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes.
\par 
\par MAT\tab You live in the birthplace of Karate, Osaka, can you wax on or wax off? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Can you use a pair of chopsticks? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No.
\par 
\par MAT\tab Can you giggle subserviently? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Are you a geisha? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No.
\par 
\par MAT\tab When you were born did your parents try to kill you or did that happen later in life? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Later.
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is your disability a result of failed hara-kiri? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Can you talk? Oh of course you can sorry. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes, yes, yes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Can you hold a fork? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab She can't hold chopsticks.
\par 
\par MAT\tab She might be able to hold a fork though. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Oh true. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Have you got any arms? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab What? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Do you have arms? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Do you have all your fingers, do you have ten fingers? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes I have. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Do you have... God can you... do you have elbows? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes I have. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab If I was to stick pins in you would you feel it? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay, oh my God. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab You're very good at fishing. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab This is tough. Hold on let's just go for the impairments. Have you got MS? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Are you paralysed? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Oohhh!
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Paralysed from... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We've lost again. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... from the neck down? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Last question. Are you a tetraplegic?
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Quadriplegic?
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes. Yes, yes. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is that the thing?
\par 
\par MAT\tab What? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Is that it? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Are you tetraplegic? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No, no, no. I'm not only the quadriplegic. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Ah ha Quadriplegic. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You're not quadriplegic? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab No. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You've got MS?
\par 
\par GRACE\tab No I... what? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Have you got Multiple Sclerosis? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes, yes. How did you know it? 
\par 
\par MAT\tab It's innate in us. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We're just so good at our game. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We're the professionals, baby. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Oh. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab We won, we won! 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We won! Give me a high five. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab I can give you a high four but try not to break... 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah try... that's impressive. High five. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Amazing. I thought you couldn't win.
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hold on, I'm just getting a call from the producer here we didn't win in the time so apparently we've lost. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Oh okay. But you were...
\par 
\par MAT\tab So you win. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So you win and we don't like you now. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab You win, Grace. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab That's fine. But you know, Grace, that it does mean that you get an Ouch mug. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Even though it's not a prize because this wasn't a competition, it's merely a gift from us to you our lovely Japanese cousin in disability fervour. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Thank you. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So, Grace, when people find out that you've got MS what kind of questions do you get asked at home?  
\par 
\par GRACE\tab It's not popular in Japan, MS. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab So it's quite rare, you're quite unique. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes, yes. So people just ask what's... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab What is it? 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab ... the disease... yeah. I think it's just... yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay. So... 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Because it's just white person gets it. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I didn't know that. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Hold on a minute. Oh contentious opinion, we're not allowed to say that on the 91热爆 but I want to. So you're saying, Grace, that you think mostly it's only white people that get multiple sclerosis?  
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yes. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab That's a very interesting... no, no, no hear us out. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Cultural observation. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Because culturally as all know why people largely don't get sickle cell anaemia so it's a possibility that it could be dietary or even racially motivated. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We thought we were just a lightweight disability radio show, but we're really... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Apparently not. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab ... we've got some cutting edge medical research in here today. And if you were to give MS a mark out of ten what would you give it? How good is it, how cool is it?
\par 
\par MAT\tab From one to ten. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Ten. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Of course. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Oh right. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab I like that. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab People always give their own impairment high marks don't they? 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Grace... 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Grace it's been wonderful talking to you. We've got some of your people filming us I think we're going to be on your television show. Are we allowed to say hello to your viewers please. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Yeah. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Okay, shall we say this one's for the people at Shine On. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Arigato!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Yeah, Shine On. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Arigato. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Arigoto!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Konnichiha! And goodbye, thank you very much. And we love Shine On! 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Thank you, Grace. 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Sayounara!
\par 
\par MAT\tab Sayounara! 
\par 
\par GRACE\tab Sayounara. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab Does that mean goodbye?
\par 
\par LIZ\tab Yeah. That means goodbye. That's the end of the show. The production team were Damon Rose, Emma Tracey, Dan Slipper and Vicky Oswalds. 
\par 
\par MAT\tab As ever you can email us on Ouch@bbc.co.uk if you want to be an unfortunate contestant in our vegetable quiz and it's the same address for everything else too. 
\par 
\par LIZ\tab We're back in two weeks with Rob Crossan and learnie band The Fish Police. Until then... 
\par 
\par LIZ AND MAT\tab Goodbye!}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af1\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f1\fs20\insrsid10761303\charrsid3866986 
\par }}