91Èȱ¬

Wouldn't Scientologists have to prove that their 'religion' is not in fact stupid?

Good luck with THAT then, bit like trying to prove the Pope is not the head of the catholic church neh?

Are politicians now not allowed to hold or express opinions?

So the cult of Scientology is all upset. What a shame. Perhaps the councillor could ask them if they are a religion why do their leaders get commissions on donations? Sounds more corporate to me...

Stupid people...

Intimidation is one of the cult's favoured weapons. The councillor should be ready for more of this. Hopefully the Met Police will not allow their officers to be bought by the cult like they have in Clearwater, Florida.

"But, rather than face being hauled up in front of an ethics committee myself, I think I will allow you to draw your own conclusions."

Scientology is stupid.

Isn't it correct to say that Scientology is not recognised as a religion in the UK? If so, how would this possibly break any laws restricting free speech in the matter of religion?

In the words of a 91Èȱ¬ News report, a judge in 1984 characterised the Church of Scientology as "corrupt, sinister and dangerous".

I think the same thing whenever I walk past any temple. Luckily religious faith isn't contagious once you have been vaccinated with a dose of critical thinking and a basic understanding of science with some knowledge of history. A booster shot of understanding human susceptibility to logical fallacies and personal bias should complete the immunisation to supernatural bullsh..er..rubish.

Why is this in a technology blog?

This really has nothing to do with twitter or the internet at all. This is simply a case that when in public office you have a duty to behave in a certain way when you open your mouth in public; which is why there is a code of conduct. This councillor may have broken those rules - it is as simple as that.

Hardly a technology story then - it should be moved to politics/local government (does such a section exists?) or near equivalent.

Google the term "vexatious litigation." It's a useful term in this scenario. The first example under "notable vexatious litigants" is..... The Church of Scientology!!

"Plaintiffs (Scientologists) have abused the federal court system by using it, inter alia, to destroy their opponents, rather than to resolve an actual dispute over trademark law or any other legal matter. This constitutes 'extraordinary, malicious, wanton and oppressive conduct.' As such, this case qualifies as an 'exceptional case' and fees should be awarded pursuant to the Lanham Act... It is abundantly clear that plaintiffs sought to harass the individual defendants and destroy the church defendants through massive over-litigation and other highly questionable litigation tactics. The Special Master has never seen a more glaring example of bad faith litigation than this." (RTC v. Robin Scott, U. S. District Court, Central District of California, No. 85-711-JMI (Bx) 85-7197-JMI (Bx), January 20, 1993, Memorandum of Decision).[24]

The *ahem* Church of Scientology deems it necessary to serve legal proceedings on individuals they deem as affecting their public credibility. No doubt they do not have humility written into their moral guidance and do have a lot to protect their "corporate" image. I haven't seen Archie of Canterbury employing lawyers to punish other public servants on their utterances.

Scientology IS stupid, though

Ugh Rory you coward...I thought a public figure like you would have the guts to stand up to such an aggressive, litigious organisation! Anderson Cooper in the States did! And John Sweeney.

I'm hoping that the Church of Scientology will spend all of their funds trying to sue all of the people that they've identified on Twitter as suppressive and bankrupt themselves. And that will be karma as they so aggressively go after anyone who they deem critical. They couldn't have less of a sense of humour or be a more intolerant "religion"!

Wouldn't it be best if that nice Mr Clegg could remove all these quasi autonomous non-governmental organisations that have nothing better to do that haul some innocent councillor over the coals for doing nothing more than tweeting what the rest of us consider to be a valid and considered opinion about the "church" of Scientology.

How much are these quango's costing us?

the church of sciantology I thought this had been declered illegal years ago.

Why is this in a technology blog?

Because it's a story about the social impact of technology. Pre-twitter the councillor would have made his remark to a physically or socially local circle of people and the Scientologists wouldn't have heard about it, and even if they had it wouldn't have been considered a matter for the standards board.

Now, technology is helping to blur the boundaries between public and private and there's often no clear distinction between things said in a professional or a private capacity. That causes interesting problems when people attempt to apply professional standards to everything.

Furthermore, the 'About this blog' box in the upper right corner of the page describes this blog as being "about how technology is changing our lives"; it's not a 'hard' tech blog.

Clear now?

I expect that by the morning there will be many pro scientology comments here as there PR machine kicks in.

"corrupt, sinister and dangerous" - yep, someone in the church of Scientology is making loadsa money - they're not stupid.

Its the people that join - beats me why they do it!

The world of political conflict has lead to a situation where everything is viewed as offensive to someone. Usually taken out of context and someone saying "I think it means..." and because they wish to say that is what it means to them the offense is somehow justified. A monk once told me that there are 6.5 billion people in the world and they all see it through their own eyes, so how can that world be? The media will take any statement of being offended and see how long the public will chat about it. It beats having to come up with a real story. Everyone wants honest public figures but of course they can't say anything.

It's hardly the first time that the Church of Scientology have rubbed up the technorati the wrong way. In 2008 the church tried to have an embarrassing video of Tom Cruise being interviewed removed from youtube and various other sites. This so enraged some "anonymous" members of the 4chan image boards that a campaign of denial of service attacks and demonstrations outside the church's premises was launched.

I would have thought that this would have taught the scientologists (and other groups and quasi-religions) that messing with the forces of the interwebs never has happy ending.

Bang on intolerance with more intolerance? Seems stupid to me - kind of like why religion of one sort of another is at the centre of so many conflicts. I guess its why religion and politics are not really popular topics for dinner party conversation, except amongst good friends who have discussed them at depth and know where each other stand.
But then how are we meant to dig down to that level if we dont get to discuss things openly.
Yes, it does all seem very stupid.

If it is stupid to believe a galactic warlord blew up millions of people with bombs in volcanoes and their dead spirits cling to people and give them a bad life then Scientology is stupid.
I think I just answered the question then.

Apparently the stupid did rub off on the Ombudsman for Public Services in Wales...

I happen to object to him calling them stupid, stupidity is harmless on it's own. Evil, Dangerous, Manipulative, Immoral, Corrupt, Abusive, Unethical, Wicked, Deplorable and Reprehensible would all be more suitable.
Of course if I was a public figure I wouldn't be able to say this, poor people, clearly they void their rights of free speech when it comes to nonsensical cults based on the SCI-FI writings of a "pathological liar". Silly me.

it is obvious that a secretive and stupid cult would seek to extort all their intimidation to try to surpress the truth

want to get to OT8 ?


i thought not... to do so would be stupid!!!

Rory Cellan-Jones.

let's hope that John Dixon doesn't find himself , the actions of irrational people are hard to predict.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"18. At 5:51pm on 20 Jul 2010, Kit Green wrote:
I expect that by the morning there will be many pro scientology comments here as there PR machine kicks in."

That depends on how popular this gets. They do appear to have finally figured out that jumping on everything can make their problem worse (their problem being the truth about them coming to light). If it gets too popular I am sure the East Grinstead boys and girls will pop by to say hello.

I suppose the good councillor and other public servants are not the only ones who need to consider new technology and how it affects our world. ^^

The Public Service Ombudsman for Wales appears to be out of control at the moment, because its set up allows vested interests to attack any local politician who they see as stepping out of line. In Ceredigion, councillors have in effect been banned from talking about a development in Cardigan by the system. This disturbine case again highlights the need for root and branch reform of this system.

"9. At 4:27pm on 20 Jul 2010, youarenumbersix wrote:
I think the same thing whenever I walk past any temple."

At least the religions allow their teachings to be read free of charge and in many cases free copies are given out.

Unlike the Cult holding copyright on its 'teachings' and insisting on squeezing every penny out of people.

Apparently the allegation is that using "stupid" in relation to scientology is a breach of the duty to treat others with respect and consideration. If this is upheld, councillors will either not be able express strongly held views at all or will have to hide them behind diplomatic circumlocutions.
If the Coalition means what it says about restoring freedom they need to make freedom of expression a right that trumps respect and consideration. I'm not saying its acceptable to offend others just for the sake of it but if you can't use the word stupid for something of public interest that you strongly believe is stupid it's the end of free speech

I think the moral of this story is that if you are a big organisation and you act stupidly, then Twitter makes it more likely that your stupidity will be widely reported.

Journalists are probably afraid of writing that Scientology is stupid (as Rory seems to be), in case they get sued. But even Scientologists and their huge army of corporate lawyers can't sue every Twitter user who used the term #stupidscientology.

I was a bit cynical about Twitter at first, but I'm beginning to see that it is actually a really powerful tool for promoting free speech.

And while we're on the subject, anyone who isn't familiar with #gillianmckeithhasnophd is in for a real treat if they wish to read about it.

Free speech vs. the nanny state.

Just imagine a world where there was actual free speech, without nanny there to remind us that what is said may insult someone somewhere.

A bunch of people create a false religion that takes offense at anyone who says anything bad about them.

So if I say I am a follower of the flying spaghetti monster, and people eating spaghetti offends my religion, does that mean eating spaghetti will be banned?

I hope so.

If politicians and people in power were actually able to say what they mean and think, we might be able to elect people who do what they say and actually represent what we want, instead of saying what everyone wants to hear, or more sinisterly saying what will get them most votes. A lot more people would likely vote if there was more honesty in politics. Someone with a view to the future, not to the next 4 years in office.

Scientology is simply a piramid Scheme for the weak and vulnerable (like most religions in my opinion) only this group has turned their "religion" into a huge profiting corporate giant, given they get tax relief in most countries around the world.

However, I feel strongly that people have the right to believe in what they want, providing they except that other people may not think or believe what they do, and they should not be trying to brainwash, recruit, or preach their so called faith on to others outside of their designated places of warship.

Region has always been the binding force to control, law/order, explanation AND CURRUPTION, and has lead to more loss of life then anything else humanity has ever seen.

I personally feel we've evolved to no longer need religion and posses the ability to better ourselves and live a happy and fulfilled life on our own merit without the need for fictitious supreme beings that so called decide if we've been naughty or nice when we arrive at the perly gates to get 72 virgins after playing chess with mozart and einstein..

The councillor was right when he said Scientology is a daft and stupid 'religion'. I also think tweeting/twating (or whatever you call it) is for kids and not adults. Twitter is a phenomenom like many dotcoms in the late 90's or early noughties. It will fade and die out within 2yrs tops.

It is sad that a person of such position and educational level carelessly took to Twitter and posted a statement that was neither sound nor well thought of. The issue is that people involved in public service should be careful of what they say at all times whether it is offline or online. I am curious to know just how much Mr. Councilor knew about CoS as well, (there's more to CoS than what we read from naysayers online) because for anybody, speaking definitively without real knowledge and background is actually the stupid thing. As a rule of thumb it is not very smart to bash a religious or cultural group especailly when you are a "public servant."

"Somehow this was spotted by a member of the organisation"

Scientology has a CIA-like division call the Office of Special Affairs, they have people patrolling and trying to police the Internet, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Of course they deny this but Scientology has no charitable activities so they have a lot of free time.

#38 "there's more to CoS than what we read from naysayers online"

Indeed. The naysayers barely cover it. Also the trail of ruined lives and corpses the cult leaves behind does not tend to attract as much attention as you would expect it to. As others have said...a rather litigious bunch. They put a lot of effort into keeping their dark secrets just that.

The best person to trust is yourself. Look at the original documents around the cases, watch the evidence, listen to those who have been involved and make up your own mind. The new technologies are a great way to uncover the truth. Good place to start is the name Lisa McPherson (do not look at any pictures if you are the queasy type) as she has become a symbol of everything that is wrong with the cult. Accusations and rebuttals will flow from there.

Twitter, Google, YouTube, etc. The truth is getting easier to find for those who wish to look.

Certainly Germany doesn't recognise scientology as a 'religion' and I think France is the same, but I think the UK does still recognise the cult as a religion for some reason!
I wonder if the problem isn't partly that the established 'religions' might, quite rightly, feel that if the torch of reason is shone too brightly on scientology that some of that light might reflect badly on their own sky-faeries!

Isn't it time we stopped pandering to religions, and scientology, with tax breaks and whatnot? Why should such organisations be allowed to accrue wealth tax free in these enlightened times?
I'd leave the tax free status for charities, and any charitable works undertaken by _any_ organisation, be they religious, or indeed scientology, based should also be tax free.

Andy Wood #41.

"Isn't it time we stopped pandering to religions, and scientology, with tax breaks and whatnot? Why should such organisations be allowed to accrue wealth tax free in these enlightened times?"

if only it stopped at 'tax breaks'. our current (and future) problems are much deeper because of the way our children will be indoctrinated:

"Faith schools are likely to boom, in this most secular of nations ... So far 273 faith schools are bidding to become academies, free to teach creationism or any nonsense they like."

Can Scientology honestly be classified as a religion? After all, it was created by a writer of science fiction?

The real problem isn't with the Church of Scientology. One would expect them to complain. They're known as a particularly humourless organisation. It's with the Ombudsman for Public Services in Wales, who needs to develop a sense of proportion. If he considers this to be sufficiently serious to merit reporting to the council's ethics committee, I'd say he's endangering his own credibility. When he comes across something really serious, people who've read this story will shrug and say, "There he goes again".

I have a bet that Scientology becomes the first 'listed' religion on the stock market

No. 38 "speaking definitively without real knowledge and background"

I speak with the real knowledge and background of seeing my sister's life ruined by this so-called "religion". She was picked up at a time when she was very vulnerable by their use of hypnosis and psycho-analytic techniques, has had two mini strokes, and is suffering from nervous and physical breakdown. It is impossible to reason with her due to the brainwashing used by this cult. They have also taken all her savings, she has sold her car ... etc. If twitter or any other social network is capable of spreading information about this terribly dangerous cult and saving someone's life, that would be wonderful. I fear that for my sister it is already too late ...

More Twittertwaddle.

@38 Don't worry, you'll beat those Thetans.

@38. At 6:48pm on 21 Jul 2010, Postgirl101


Not a champion of free-speech, are you?

If you can't speak you mind, what's the point in having a mind?

Of course scientology is stupid. When I was a scientist in the Antarctic in 1983 I had the privilige of meeting SF author Robert Heinlein who visited our base while on a cruise with his wife Victoria. He personally confirmed that scientology was invented by Ron Hubbard as the result of them betting each other that they could start a religious cult within a year. Hubbard invented scientology, and Robert wrote "Stranger in a Strange Land". Hubbard won the bet. Scientology was DESIGNED to be stupid!

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

The general view within Scientology is that 'everyone is a criminal'.
They will stalk anyone who upsets them to work out that individuals past crimes and then exploit it.
The councillor's Tweet is a very small crime but they jumped on board fast and now he's going to suffer for making one joke.

Disgraceful.

I think you may be missing the point. All religion is based on intimidation and fear, either it is fear of god, fear of hell or fear of being followed by a guy in a black SUV. It's all made up so there is no reason to get all worked up about it, it's the same as being annoyed about Harry Potter.

Its a shame this blog isn't more prominent. The church of 'scaminology' needs to be shown up for what it is; a money making farse of a cult who will rather litigate, than justify, to defend its position.

For once Twitter has done something useful rather than spout nonsense. What is amusing to me is that Twitter users' actions aren't too disimilar to 4chan's! Now there is a topic!

All free speech is an absolute and the Internet makes it so. Those who deny this simply aren't aware that the global scope of the technology makes all local laws and customs restricting free speech (including sub judice laws and libel law) an exercise in utter futility.

This new reality hasn't quite filtered through to mainstream culture just yet but it will and the society or country in question will simply have to adapt or find that their laws regarding free speech will become an unenforcable irrelevance.

China and Iran are only just beginning to understand the impossibility of censoring the Net and since the technology is not going to disappear then it is fair to say that we are all going to have to get used to living in world where people can freely express themselves without any restrictions.

Welcome to the 21st Century.