Are Poles Catholics?
An interesting one from Sinn Fein's Martina Anderson today in response to the latest statistics from the Equality Commission. These show that 56.3% of the workforce is Protestant, whilst 43.7% is Catholic. The Commission says this fits in with "the long established trend of growth in the Roman Catholic share of the workforce".
However Martina Anderson argues that the Catholic percentage is being "artificially inflated" by the practice of counting migrant workers, many of whom come from Catholic countries, as "Catholics" rather than "others".
The Foyle MLA says the monitoring is intended to address sectarian discrimination and imbalances between the nationalist and unionist communities. Because employers do not perceive migrants as belonging to either community, she argues they should not be counted as "Catholic".
So should we be asking workers whether they are "nationalist" or "unionist" rather than "Catholic" or "Protestant"? And if the Equality Commission did that how would they deal with someone who does not see themselves as belonging to either community, but is "perceived" by others to come from one side or the other?
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Maybe the Eastern Europeans in Northern Ireland are actually above all of this sectarian/community nonsense.My family had a series of Eastern European au pairs live wioth us - I don't remember any of them going to a church or showing signs of being concerned which "community" they lived with. Except the Czech that was a Mormon. That was a challenge - but only in the sense that I had to lift the phone book to find the local Temple. I'm sorry Northern Ireland, but I think you have to get past this - right I'm off to cool my boiling blood.
Like Joanne above, I find all this totally surreal. Like, who gives a monkeys about where people go, and who with, in this day and age ?? Most of the people who go to church don't really believe in anything anyway - it is just a tradition they follow. What will you do when mass immigration takes off, as it inevitably will, now that a booming economy will become a 'pull factor' ?
I can't see incoming moslems, sikhs, buddhists, jews, hindus and mormons deciding where to live and where to work based on old dividing lines in the town geography. They are more likely to be concerned about transport links, parking, crime and where the nearest mosque / other place of worship or Italian / Thai / Indian / Malaysian / Greek / Moorish & Berber / Chinese restaurant or grocery store is located.
The idea that employers will be able to pick and choose who works for them in an age where we have not just Equal Opportunities legislation but multi-nationals with strong diversity and internal positive discrimination legislation is truly bizarre.
Oi Oi Mark! Noticed you hob-nobbing with the great and the good at the Queen's Garden Party which was shown as part of last night's Monarchy: A Royal Family at Work on 91Èȱ¬1. How the other half live eh?
Hmm. 56.3 + 43.7 = 100. Now I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure that there some people working in Northern Ireland who are neither Catholic nor Protestant because they are not even Christian. This practice of having people classified under what they are "perceived as" can become very quickly ludicrous and offensive.
I think that if I was in Northern Ireland, I would be classified as a protestant on the grounds of being English. I'm an atheist who has no view on Northern Ireland save that it is really up to the Irish to sort it out.
If these checks and balances did not exist then sectarian employment practices would be common place. Unfortunately they are necessary in Northern Ireland where the vast majority of people still do identify themselves as Protestant or Roman Catholic. There is nothing wrong with that, it just means that checks are necessary.
In the future we will have more ethnic groupings but for now these reports are necessary to highlight any imbalances.
As for the first poster who said "sectarian/community nonsense" I come from a small community that has a strong sense of identity and I am proud to do so. Better that than some 'I don't even know my next door neighbor' estate or housing development.
You're absolutely right Mr. Boothroyd. You will officially become a Protestant if you ever come to live in Northern Ireland, for no other reason than we think you act like one.
However, as you can see being an actual Catholic - like almost every Pole who has come over - is not enough to be an official Catholic in the eyes of the largest "Catholic" party here.
On top of all that, if you're one of our elected representatives in Stormont you have to declare your allegiance to one side or the other.
So I'm going down to the market to ask a few Indian stall holders whether they told the Equality Commission they are Protestants or Catholics.
I know of cases where protestant friends have lied and stated they were catholics to get into the PSNI-this is what SF are referring to as artificially inflated figures. I have also spoken with a couple of english squaddies planning to leave the army and then join the PSNI doing the same as well.
Hmmm, I do understand this but what you have to remember is that just because applicants for jobs do not have prejuidice does not meant that the interviewing employer does not.
Also, whilst it's nice to think that we can live in a world where you can apply for a job and not get that job and simply walk away - I'm afraid Northern Ireland still has much lower wages and high social deprivation that some people are unable to do that so that any form of discrimination is important.
The Equality Commission was established to redress balance and provide equal opportunities for all, but this is simply laudable and daft. Political allegiance is not set in stone, and the whole situation makes this émigré a little uncomfortable; we can’t chastise Polish people (who so happen to be Catholic) for going to the North and working, often in the so-called ’dirty jobs’ with a lot less workers‘ rights than other, more privileged people. I would ask Martina Anderson to scrutinise these figures before jumping to conclusions and stoking some racial fire. Also, I’m quite sure the North, now that there’s peace, will see greater ethnic diversity, I wonder what is next to come from our prudent politicians.
Having been brought up as a Catholic, living in the North, means I am only too aware of the discrimination that we faced.
Therefore I support the Equality Commission. It was established to redress balance and provide equal opportunities for Catholics. However, if Unionists are manipulating statistics by using "foreign" Catholics, then this must be addressed.
In simple,why can the workforce not be divided into 3 categories:
1) Nationalist
2) Unionist
3) Foreign / migrant
The first 2 obviously represent the indigenous population (we were there 1st) whereas the 3rd reflect migrant workers?
If however, this is rejected, then it would not take a genius to work out from a persons name if the were Nationalist Catholic or Foreign Catholic!
Are there any stats for non-nationals in the police? If I had to guess, I would say that the numbers are too low to make any difference
POLES ARE CATHOLICS WHEN MARTINA ANDERSON UNILATERLY DESIGNATES THEM AS ‘OTHERS’
The 17th Fair Employment Monitoring Report does not give a percentage or number of the monitored workforce whose community background was not established. I assume that there is no requirement for the Equality Commission (EC) to do so.
What are the figures Ms Anderson is relying upon to support her argument of “Catholic percentage is being ‘artificially inflated’ “? Her convoluted logic is absurd.
Ms Anderson is confused in that the EC is not constituted to support positive discrimination in favour of Roman Catholics, or is it? In fact I believe the EC argues to the contrary when it comes to employment for the PSNI.
I wonder if Ms Anderson would provide the public with her designation for Anglo-Catholics.