91Èȱ¬

Yes the conference does matter. As far as I can see they won the election: as the last party to join the coalition they could call the shots. They were also skilfull in playing off the chance of allying with Labour. I voted for the Tories but we certainly came second.

I suspect that the conference will be concerned that Mr Clegg is using an inadequetely long spoon.

I'd rather be a Tory than a Lib Dem - and I hate the tories but at least we know they are the nasty party - aint got a clue about Lib Dems as they have a different policy viewpoint for every different audience - the worse thing in politics - hypocrisy - and whilst they don't have a monopoly on it they really are the experts.

The LibDems need to prove that they can deliver on the "we are all in this together" rhetoric.

Fail on that and Mr Clegg will look like a puppet.He needs to be seen to be pursuing some Tory vested interests to demonstrate that they are paying too.

Has he got the necessary nous and steel? Or not?

Mr Clegg is reported in the Indie as saying that the Lib-Dems had .."no future as a left of centre alternative to Labour.."

In which case, they deceived a majority of the people who voted for them, and I would amend his statement simply to "The Lib-Dems have no future."

Labour wasted most of its time in office, and betrayed many of its principles. I saw very little of what Mr Prescott called "traditional values in a modern setting". In particular if Miliband D is elected, we will have very little real choice at the next election. It will feel like the condemned man having no choice but in the method of his execution. The rich will be protected and become more poweerful at the expense of the poor, in Britain and around the World.

So where will the new progressive choice come from? The Greens? If I were young enough and had my health I would emigrate.

I voted Lib Dem at the last election, partially due to their stance on not cutting spending as fast as the Tories want, as they've abandoned this stance at the first whiff of power I won't be voting for them again, if I wanted to vote for Tory policy I'd vote for the Tories.

The Lib Dems need to enjoy their conferences over the next few years because it will be another 65 years before their back again after this charade and they have little chance of getting electoral reform through, it really isn't as important as people losing their jobs, they're in for a rude awakening.

Clegg has to convince those who voted LibDem that there is any LibDem policy which he has got as part of government policy which we would not have got under the Tories. I can't think of anything significant.

If the LibDems are to continue to exist, they have got to make any tensions in the coalition more apparent. They have got to be seen as the opposition from within. Their hand will be stronger the quicker Labour manages to make itself into an electable party. At the moment they are just there to make up the numbers. Vince Cable has the right idea, even if he chose the wrong issue (favouring immigration is not a vote winner). But Danny Alexander can do something by voicing reservations about some of the cuts and other junior ministers have not got to agree with their ministers so meekly.

LibDems are supposed to be an active part of the coalition, forming the sort of policies that their voters wanted. I don't think being a doormat supporting Tory policies quite fits the bill.

How many of the delegates at the Liberal Democrat Party Conference in 2009 dreamed that their party would be in the pivotal position of power they now hold? Surely this should be a matter for celebration not recrimination amongst conference delegates and for others, like myself, who have always supported the Lib/Dems but with little hope that our votes would actually count for much. Lib/Dems have dwelt too long in the twilight zone of appearing to be very 'worthy' whilst being of little significance in the wider political arena. Now they have the chance to make a real difference. So I hope that the party delegates will not diminish respect for their party leadership and what they have achieved because of the compromises coalition government will require. They are punching well above their weight and have the chance, at last, to prove they are capable of being taking seriously.

The Lib Dems did the honourable thing in helping the largest party form a government. We are all better off that this also ditched the right wing of the Tory party. If Cameron had just won an overall majority his right wing would have held him to ransom. Remember the fate of Major and the country itself when he had a small majority. The biggest contribution of the Lib Dems to the coalition is that UK is playing a reasonably constructive part in Europe. We all gain from that.

En route to Liverpool. I'll bet you could hear the protests well before you actually saw the city.
Nothing was hush, hush from what I heard.
This Liberal Democrat Conference actually DOES matter because of all the hoopla and upset.
I'm sure Nick Clegg feels a desperate need to placate, explain, reassure and cajole.
As far as Lib Dem compromises with the Tories, he may believe and people around him may believe that he walked through the door of power of Coalition Power,but abandoned his liberal soul on the threshhold.
Unions - The Trade Union Congress, the National Union of Teachers as well as members of the Liberal Party protested against horrid public sector cuts. They contended such cuts would lead to rising unemployment and fewer designated, essential services.
In fact, I read that opening day of the conference was labeled 'Dog Day'.
Why?
Protestors wanted their message understood: "The Lib-Dems are barking if they think the people of Merseyside and Britain can't see through the opportunism and betrayal". Now that's heavy stuff!
Avis Gilmore, Secretary of North West NUT added: "Our members are outraged at the decisions made by the Con-Dem government to cut pubiic spending." Thereafter she spoke about damage the education of young people and the consequences for teachers.
Around 6,500 delegates were expected; I don't know how many actually came to the city's Arena and Convention Centre.
Deputy PM and Party Leader Nick Clegg will of course try his level best ensure his people that by the time of the next General Election, the Party will have a proud economic record on which to stand, but who (I wonder) will reassure Nick Clegg?

To be honest.. what does it matter? After years in the wilderness, the Liberals were finally finding a pathway out of it - not an easy path, and certainly not getting to their destination as quickly as they wished - but it was clear the direction in which they were heading.

But Nick Clegg decided that he had to lead the party down a shortcut - a shortcut that will almost certainly lead to the demolition of his party at the next election. Preaching to the faithful (even the most sceptical of them)at the conference is entirely misleading. The electorate actually have the power and the vast majority of Liberal voters have been left feeling that there is now no party left to vote for.

The AV vote is a meaningless sop. It is not remotely the true proportional representation that this democracy needs to revitalise it. I have voted Liberal for years in the hope that one day my vote would count for what I believe in - no matter what part of the country I happened to be residing in at the time.

That will not now happen in my lifetime.

In seeking to shorten the route to truly representative democracy, history will show, that Clegg has only strengthened the two party system. The Liberals will be as smoke after the next election.

For the first time ever in my adult life I am finally have to face the prospect of having to choose to not vote in the next election. In supporting the Liberals all these years it has simply resulted in my having no legitimate vote at all.

None of the Conferences matter. We'd be better off without any of them, or at the very least not televising/reporting them in such detail. Let the party faithful hold their discussions and work out thier policies behind closed doors, but don't please force them onto the bored and disinterested public with the saturation coverage that they tend to get these days...

@8 Jacwen

I truly don't blame the Lib-dems for trying to seek an accommodation with the largest party. But allowed themselves to be conned. The economically illiterate Osbourne still got to the treasury, whereas VC, a real economist and a lone voice predicting the crash, is imprisoned in the business dept. I don't believe the Lib-dems have any meaningful power except to admit they got it wrong and walk away.

The government plans to cut public services are far worse than a minority (or perhaps even a majority) Tory government could have aspired to. The Tories are using the Lib-dems to implement what they would not have dared, and will them use them as a scapegoat. AV is almost an irrelevance when there are no plans for democratising the second chamber. Plans to reduce the number of MPs without reducing the payroll vote will actually increase the power of the executive.

MR Clegg may believe that he is deputy PM, but he is no more than an office boy - or perhaps a cup-bearer: a Ganymede to Mr Cameron's Jupiter!

What Nick Clegg is actually saying is for the next 5 years for us to swallow our principles and support the ConDem alliance so that he, Vince Cable and Danny Alexander can enjoy their doubling of salary to over £100,000 per annum and the little bit of power David allows them to have and in 5 years time they won't care if they are not in the coalition. I am going to be seriously affected by these proposed cuts and tax changes.
To say I feel betrayed is putting it mildly.
Vince (my hero) SHAME ON YOU !!!

Nobody actually voted for this ConDem coalition as it wasn't on offer at the election. But one thing turned out to be true and that was the warning 'Vote Lib Dem and you get a Tory Govt'.

Clegg tells the right wing media that the Lib Dems are a right of centre party that must work closely with the Tories. Then he tells the left wing press he is not a Tory. This just shows him to be two faced.

Clegg now appears to believe he is the party not its leader. Having led his supporters into the valley of death they have little choice but to hope he leads them out of it. He should be moderating the right wing policies not helping to enact them. He should be delivering electoral reform not sacrificing it for boundary changes. But Cameron has outplayed him at every stage. I used to believe that electroral reform was needed but this can only work if the centre parties show more principles. But what the hell, he now has a Government car.

11. At 10:09pm on 18 Sep 2010, dacron wrote:

In seeking to shorten the route to truly representative democracy, history will show, that Clegg has only strengthened the two party system. The Liberals will be as smoke after the next election.

For the first time ever in my adult life I am finally have to face the prospect of having to choose to not vote in the next election. In supporting the Liberals all these years it has simply resulted in my having no legitimate vote at all./////////////

Dacron - you express the situation perfectly. Many of my LibDem friends feel much the same and these words certainly summarise how I feel.

I also think that Clegg will make many floating voters who supported the Lib Dems last time think twice before doing so again, having seen them stand on one set of principles but change them after the election. This will probably influence left of centre voters more than right of centre voters but it will surely have an effect and mean that I will never see proportional representation in my lifetime.

The debate you should have mentioned was euthanasia, killing off the old, the frail and the infirm - the right to die.

On this issue no one could call the Lib Dem's hypocrites. The Lib Dem party has been in need of the help of Dignatas for a long time, and now finally Nick Clegg has had the confidence to do the deed.

If you want the Conservatives you vote for the Conservatives, Lib Dem voters who want the Tories can next time cut out the middleman or woman and vote directly for the Conservatives. Those who don't want the Tories need to find another party.

I don't see the political sense of what Clegg has done. I can understand a temporary coalition to get the country through, and the country would understand that. Brown needed to go, and a new debate was required, but to expect the country to put up with five years of this shows a worrying disconnection with political reality.

Unless the Lib Dems are seen to make a difference, and I see no sign of that yet, then this is political suicide.

17. At 00:03am on 19 Sep 2010, MaxWax wrote:

I also think that Clegg will make many floating voters who supported the Lib Dems last time think twice before doing so again, having seen them stand on one set of principles but change them after the election. This will probably influence left of centre voters more than right of centre voters but it will surely have an effect and mean that I will never see proportional representation in my lifetime.

_______________________________________________________________

As a left of centre voter who voted Lib Dem at the last election, I unfortunately have to agree with you, I certainly won't vote for them again whilst Clegg is leader, I feel absolutely betrayed.

I'm so dismayed that I won't support any sort of electoral reform, it is simply not as important as unemployment and the Lib Dems have gone down the route of supporting unemployment.

I think/hope that the proposed AV vote will fail the referendum on the grounds that if it were passed it'd mean that the people who get the least votes will win.
The labour leadership election may prove this point, because it's quite possible that the person who comes second will actually become leader because they'll win when the "2nd preference" votes etc will be counted into the equation.
Coupled with the fact that you may be forced to explicitly vote for someone as 2nd/3rd preference that you DON'T want elected just in order for your vote for your first preference to be counted/valid, I hope this means that AV will never come into effect.

On the libdem vote generally, I'm surprised they got as many votes as they did at this general election; I was hoping/expecting that due to the bankruptcy of the economy by labour that the vote at the general election would have become completely polarised with extreme left wing union members all voting labour, and everyone else either voting tory or not voting at all. My guess is that by 2015 (when the labour party has lurched even further to the left and the libdems have become irrelevant) that polarisation will be more apparent, labour will lose a 2015 election and only get around 100 seats, and the libdems will remain a 3rd party but lose their ability to form a coalition government as the tory majority will be too big.

The only thing that can make labour electable in 2015 is a blair-like figure to stand up and admit they'd got the last 13 years completely wrong, they're very sorry, and they'll change tack completely and adopt coalition-type policies. But I don't think that'll happen, and even if it does I don't think anyone would believe them.

I can't think of anything that'd put the libdems back into power in 2015 or increase their seats; they might as well make hay while the sun shines and do the best they can regarding influencing policies until 2015.

I am a typical floating voter with no allegience to any party but i am disgusted at the recent behaviour displayed by Nick clegg.

I would never vote Tory but at least i know what they stand for, the Lib Dems said one thing leading up to the election and now say something completely different! That is unforgivable in my opinion.


Ranald

I think Clegg and the LibDems are doing a great job in the coalition. The country has a stable government which it needs to sort out the mess that Brown created with the FSA and borrowing. Despte all the LABOUR supporters who comment that "although I've always voted liberal, I will never vote for them again", I think they will do well at the next general election and labour will finally be dead and buried.
The LibDems are having a significant say in what the government does and as a conservative supporter, can say they are making a good difference to conservative policy.
If the media would start to support this government instead of continuously trying to split them, they could do a good job.
I wish Clegg well for the conference.

"I want to be Prime Minister because I want to be the first Prime Minister in my lifetime to be on the side of the weak against the powerful.."

"We are the only party that offers real change at the next election."

"The biggest challenge for the next government will be sorting out the public finances.There isn't a serious economist in the world who agrees with the Conservatives that, right in the grip of recession, with two and a half million unemployed, we should pull the rug out from under the economy with immediate spending cuts."

"If you supported Labour in 1997 because you wanted fairnes...Turn to the Liberal Democrats.We carry the torch of progress now."

Nick Clegg
23 Sep 2009


"I totally understand that some of these people are not happy with what the Lib Dems are doing in coalition with the Conservatives. The Lib Dems never were and aren't a receptacle for leftwing dissatisfaction with Labour. There is no future for that, there never was."

Nick Clegg
20 Sep 2010


The new politics...

This is a very condescending piece, Nick. You shouldn't belittle those who would prefer integrity in their party over power.

Viewed from outside I cannot distinguish between the Parliamentary LibDem Party and the Parliamentary Tory Party. Result is that at the next election no one will bother to vote LibDem. There are those in the party who realise this, but by the time the leadership realise it 'necessary' reforms will have gone too far in a wrong direction.

Before the election I thought that Nick Clegg was in a tough position in terms of saying who he would support in a coalition. I was swithering with my vote and ended up not voting for the LibDems because i thought Clegg (and still do) was lightweight with no real convictions, just crowd pleasing soundbites.

If he had said Labour then perhaps the Tories would have won a few more seats as most people wanted rid of Gordon Brown (although a siginificant minority didn't want this).

If he had said the Tories then Labour would have picked up more seats, both LibDem ones and holds against the Tories as tactical voting set in more strongly than it did.


Both ways would have meant a bad election for the LibDems, which seems strange given that most people knew that coalition was the only way they would end up in power.

The big problem now for Clegg is that his utterances since the election are such a turnaround since before that he has little or nothing left in the trust account.

Its hard to see how the next election ends up anything other than very close again (whatever voting method is used) but the LibDems will be marginalised. They could still end up back in coalition but with a mandate reduced to a very low level. Who knows, maybe all their remaining MPs will end up with ministerial jobs.

Oh have a go at the coalition again, this is boring. A moment of history is appearing this weekend on our tv but the 91Èȱ¬ prefer to spell the negatives out with that one too:

Should we not consider that the Lib Dems are now attracting more attention than ever before? They are able now to influence govt policy in ways that they probably could never have imagined at the time of the election. I believe that they are succeeding in tempering many of the Conservative actions and policies. Lifting the lowest paid out of tax and the stated objective of going further is surely a big LD success, who could have imagined 6 months ago that the Conservatives would propose a bill to hold a referendum on a new voting system, and any deferral of the decision to replace Trident would be welcome to the LDs even if that is caused as much by budget constraints as any change of heart by the Conservatives.
Surely what Nick Clegg needs to do is get across his message that he and his team are influencing govt policy and, as a coalition member, the LDs will support govt decisions even if they retain the right to speak out on other issues before a policy is agreed. The LDs should make their case for LD policies to show that they retain their convictions and identity. After all, parties include a range of opinions and are seldom united on every point of detail but a consensus needs to be reached.
Whether a coalition of Labour and LDs (even if the numbers had worked) would have been better for the LDs we will never know. But the Labour / LD negotiations immediately after the election would not have given the LDs much cause for optimism. Labour were insisting on working to their own manifesto and offered few cabinet jobs it seemed.

27
What is the 'moment of history'?

@29 - I think the post refers to the visit of the "aggressive non-secularist", and ex-member of the Hitler Youth, who is smearing those of a different persuasion as "Nazis".

30
Oh, OK.

Let me know when they've gone and I can let my children out again.

The only upside of where the libdems are now is that it gives you journalists something for your column inches. Looking at Clegg on Andrew Marr show this morning, he looked very uncomfortable and is resorting to proclaim how they are planning to chase tax dodgers, if he wants to live with that fantasy so beit but I'm sure that the government will not be going after those who they seem to want to use as advisors, After all private eye has opened the can of worms with the Vodafone £6B tax let off so lets see what punative measures they take, probably targetting a few labour loyalists at best, bet Lord Ashcroft will be ok.

When I started my first job, an older colleague, much respected in the wider community said to me " Sadly, the saying which I have found most true to life is 'The working class can kiss my donkey*, I've got the foreman's job at last!' "

I think this sums up the obective realities of the Lib-dems in government. However, what of the subjective realities? The other thing which I have found most true to life is the enormous capacity people have for self-deceit. Instead of assessing the evidence and using their reason, they filter out any facts not to their liking. People will go though incredible mental contortions to persudade themselves that what is in their personal self-interest is also better for the common good.

*© Terry Pratchett

So Danny Alexander wants to be 'Mr. Nice Guy' and take the public sector with him as he slashes and burns their jobs? I don't they, or anyone else is going to buy it. Anyway the Coalition is going to carry on 'New' Labour's plans for quietly sacking civil servants and replacing them with more expensive and worse than useless contractors. Unfortunately they too seem to 'New' Labours' touching, but totally misplaced, belief in massive IT projects efficiently replacing real people. Just look at the latest HMRC debacle. That was a new IT system replacing actual tax inspectors, and look what we got. This is what is going to happen throughout public services and Mr. Alexander wants to be liked for it?
If it wasn't so sad I'd laugh, regards, etc.

@ top of the tree

"Yes the conference does matter. As far as I can see the Lib Dems won the election: as the last party to join the coalition they could call the shots. They were also skilful in playing off the chance of allying with Labour."

Pretty much true, I'd say.

And given this, I'd be a lot happier (with them) if they'd assumed the leadership role in the Coalition which was theirs for the taking.

As it is they seem to have caved in on most of the important, weighty issues - the economy (savage and speedy cuts), defence (trident), immigration (no amnesty), the Euro (we're not joining), the Big Society (que?) ... I could go on.

Much better would be to have insisted on their own (relatively enlightened) policies in these areas and thrown the tories the odd headline grabbing sop; a free vote on bringing back hunting (with dogs), for example, or a tiny little married man's tax allowance.

No tax breaks for normal to large sized men, however - married or not.

Should be interesting watching Butler Clegg and his second-rate bunch of Front - Benchers false feeding Conservative Policies to their followers, while dark clowds grow ever blacker during this meeting of the Doomed.

Time NOW to Call a General Election.

So Nick and Danny say they are going to be as hard on tax cheats as they are on benefit cheats. The rhetoric is good but lets wait for some detail.

My questions for Danny Alexander and Nick Clegg would be as follows:

1. Are there to be any particular legislative changes as part of the "MAJOR CRACKDOWN"? For example, to close particular loopholes or to generally "tighten up" the system. Or is this simply some additional expenditure?

2. Is there any ongoing policy work being undertaken to improve the efficiency and fairness of the tax system? If not, why not?

3. How much is it estimated will the new measures will raise in each year of this parliament and the next parliament?

4. How was the budget for the $900 million extra expenditure determined? If the amount was doubled for example what increase could be expected in recoveries?

Alexander is pathetic trying to seperate the trade union leaders from members. Even the 91Èȱ¬ coverage of posssible strikes is becoming less frenetic apart from Humphries making the country ungovernable. Just read the Tory press - the LibDems are seen as human shields taking the hit ; notice how Maude is pulling back from openly criticising the unions and Cable and Alexander walking into to Tory trap. Alexander 14 days before the election appeared on a 91Èȱ¬ Scotland programm Who is Cheating Who ? about the blatant abuse by ATOS the private medical assessment company of claimants. Alexander proclaimed that this needed to be investigated, he assured the programme that even in Government he will pursue the issue ! Tax evasion er yes but no mention of tax avoidance !!
Sam Beer an American academic wrote a brilliant book about British politics without the fug of Oxbridge ramblings. He stated that the ideology of the Tory party was a 'drive to power' for they were indeed the natural governing party. Clegg is Tom Brown to Cameron's Flashman. Don't they understand that the Tory's see this Government as Thatcher Mark 2 ?