91Èȱ¬

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Well said Nick.

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Of course this is a terrible tragedy. Can't think why a forum has been created, for an event in which any normal person will understand the hurt involved. Nick, concentrate on serious, political matters on which the bloggers are able to participate, without undue moderation. Thank you.

Nick,

If and when you are in the position to do so, please pass on the sympathies of the regular posters on this site to David Cameron and his family.

Children such as Ivan are "special" and dearly loved.

In order to keep this article respectful, can you please open a new discussion where we can engage in the daily exchange of scuttlebutt and cynicism?

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Puts things into perspective, doesn't it.

Condolences to the Camerons.

Sorry, Mr Robinson: UTTERLY inappropriate that this should appear in a "blog", inviting "comments".

Paradox understood.

Deep sympathy for Mr Cameron and his family.

Now, please remove.

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There's no feeling worse than parents having to arrange the funeral of a child they so loved. Condolences and sympathies to the Camerons.

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National politics is not really very important to those of us who live 'ordinary' lives.

In the scheme of things that impact us, it is a nuisance at best and mostly deeply irriatating.

Lift itself is usually best expressed through the joy of children.

A sense of perspective is very helpful and as four lads from Liverpool who really did change the world said 'all you need is love'.

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I am actually quite surprised how moved I have been by hearing this news, since I did not know this child. My condolences to the Cameron’s.

Mr_E_Man – you have had 2 comments removed, I can only worry what you must have said for this to have happened. Shame on you, on this occasion if you have nothing nice to say then it really is a case of keeping quiet.

Very sad news, my condolences to the Camerons.

I thought Gordon Brown's statement was very touching, as Nick said he will know exactly how the Camrron's feels. It's also very tragic when we consider that Nick Clegg and his wife celebrated the birth of their third child earlier in the week, constrasts don't get any starker.

Having been there myself, albeit about 15 years ago, I can sympathise with the Camerons for what they must be going through right now.

It must be ironic that the one thing that Gordon Brown and David Cameron now share is this, given their personal dislikes of each other in the political arena.

Death is a great leveller, that everyone has to come to. I might not like your politics, Mr Cameron but you and your family have my sympathies just now.

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I did not see that Nick's comments were insensitive, even when I looked. This is a little unfair.

How nice it would be to sign a condolences petition. Does such a thing exist?

The "old goat" has been there and so have I. 15yrs , 20yrs does not dim the pain. There is little one can say bar our deepest sympathies

Little Ivan's death should not really be the subject of a political blog.

I remember when Cameron was criticized for 'politicizing' Baby P's death by raising the subject in Parliament (although I thought at the time, at least finally someone's speaking out for the poor little mite).

I'll be thinking of the Cameron family all the time, they put their hearts and souls into the loving care of their boy - he came first for them, life is not fair. I'm so sorry.

Its a shame that in the case of some, politics cannot be forgotten on the death of a child.

To lose a child is a terribly devastating event in one's life and we should all respect the decision to cancel PMQs in light of that fact.

Well said Nick.

Our thoughts are with Mr Cameron and his family.

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No need for a forum today is there.

Let the family grieve in peace.

Rahere also offers all the condolences to the Camerons, on behalf of all the Community in and around the la Clairière centre in Brussels. Such children are a gift and they teach us much, for the too short a time we share with them.

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To those of you that have criticised Nick's posting on this tragic news...

Eternal shame on you!

..especially those who suggested that PMQ's should have gone ahead as normal.

It is a mark of respect..or is that something you people cannot equate to?

Condolences to the cameron family.

Come on people, let's try and be human here. It might not be politics but Nick Robinson is perfectly entitled to blog on this sad event. Not everything can be categorised and pigeonholed. Something like this reminds us that behind all the tribalism and ideology, we are all the same human beings. Condolences to David Cameron and his family.

Ladies and gentlemen,

Let those who wish to post off-subject revert to the previous blog for their comments.

To friends past and present.

Some of us have worked and work with the mentally handicapped, and know that their time with us is often very short. The loss of one diminishes us all, because although they often have the greatest difficulties in communicating, the power of the love they share when they do break through the physical barriers more than repays the pain. Inside those bodies lies a soul as human as any, and one which teaches us proportion, at least.

Please pass on our sympathies to Mr Cameron and his family, it is very very sad the news of his son's death. We lost a child shortly after birth some years ago, the pain never goes but time heals. All our love and condolences to mr Cameron and family.

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Just remember that Brown also has a child with a disability. Maybe Brown doesn't fancy being a rotweiler at the moment either.

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reading the comments here of "I have lost a child"
"as have I" and might I add, as have I, only shows the loss that families up and down the country have suffered.

When I read the news I thought to myself, poor child, and then I felt empathy for the parents, it is indeed a sad moment in their lives.

Then I tuned into radio 5 to listen to the cast of lowered toned voices and the speeches given at the time PMQ was supposed to be on, and it left me feeling deflated.

Not that the Camerons can do anything about it, not that they would want to waste a breath on the subject at the moment, their's is a world of grief at the moment,

but the fact that many many people be it young soldiers who lives were taken in an illegal war, kids on the streets stabbed, kids born into poverty, and they get a faux condolence at PMQ, but we get a gushing outpour at PMQ's.about one of their own.

Again I'll reiiterate this is no doing of Cameron they have my sympathy as a human.

I'm not that bothered that PMQ's was cancelled as that segment is a joke of prepared questions and pantomime.

My hope is that it focuses minds and somewhere it sparks some human decency in the politicians to do the right thing and do things for the good of the people rather than politics and themselves.


It would restore my faith in Westminster, if they took a moment to think about the wee lad, and for them to have something inside spark a flame that makes them think , right from now on no more worrying about diddling my expenses, no more lies no more deceit as it just doesnt matter.

Gordon should ponder this too as should the rest of Labour and Tony and use this moment of contemplation to change the future , so mark a line in the sand, admit their failures and show us how they can affect change for the good of everyone,same for the lot of them.

I remember my father saying he would pay any amount of money to bring my son back, there is and wasnt any amount that could have done this, so any greedy bankers reading this how much is enough, because you will never have enough if this happens to you.

RIP little fella


ps
tomorrow business as usual , I bet the bankers stash nothing changes

I arrogantly say I know a little of what David is going through, having a severely disabled son who is wheelchair bound, has spastic quadraplegia and will need to be cared for for the rest of his life. His situation is due to a terrible accident when he was 15.

However, none of us can really know what David and Samantha are feeling and the grief will wash over them in waves.

The void is made all the worse because, as I know, this is not the same as an able bodied child's death due the fact that they will have lots of special equipment and house adaptations in place as well as his toys to remind them of him and add to their heartache.

If we lost our son now (and he is not expected to live to a ripe old age) we would not feel relief as some may think. No, the pain would be almost unbearable due to the extra special unconditional love the parents have to expend to a child with such profound disabilities.

Why me? They may ask. "Why NOT me"? Was the phrase which helped me to cope.

The pain will last for years and will never completely go, but it will get easier and with time will come acceptance.

Little Ivan, safe in the arms of Jesus.

Though I despise the Tory Party and David Cameron, I hope that I speak for all decent people in offering my sincere condolences to David Cameron and his family.

Yes it was right to cancel PMQ's and suspend normal politics, its called respect which obviously is an alien concept to some on this board

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Those who have suggested that Nick should not have posted a thread on this occasion should pause. Politicians my be distant figures to many of the public but there is a personal relationship between politicians and lobby correspondents. They know each other and if Nick thinks it is appropriate to express his own feelings, all strength to his arm.

Our sympathies to the Camerons for their sad loss.

It is quite appropriate to make these observations so as to flesh out a sad and tragic event and define its context. This allows us all the opportunity to contemplate on the working of providence.

It has been previously noted that Ivan's disability brought David Cameron to experience the NHS directly. Not many of his privileged background get to know how this body functions in both its strengths and its weaknesses. The rest of us may come to appreciate that experience.

Lastly, I know that out of adversity comes determination. I have been rude about Cameron in the past for an apparent lack of intellectual substance and political nouse. Perhaps he was gaining qualities of another more humane sort of which we will come to see more.

Why do I see the idea of One Nation once more becoming very central to our affairs in due course?

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I am a counsellor who deals with such terrible losses and it would be churlish of me to even pretend that I know what the Cameron's are going through. However, I have seen what others go through and what devastation the loss of a child brings.

Politics will not matter for now, nor will many of the mundane chores of life. David, his wife and family need respect and time and privacy, they are after all, human beings just like me and all those who have chosen to add a comment here today.

Life can bring things into perspective but none more than death.

My sympathies go out to the Camerons.

18. At 12:05pm on 25 Feb 2009, magnificentpolarbear wrote:
I am not a fan of Mr Cameron or his party but the death of his child is obviously devastating.

He, his wife and other children have my deepest sympathy.

But to be honest, cancelling PMQ is a tad over the top. Cancelling PMQs should be reserved only for the gravest matters.

===

I am no fan of Gordon Brown the politician, but he is a human being who lost a child himself. His tribute was obviously heartfelt and sincere, and it would not have been appropriate to expect him then to launch into the bearpit that is PMQs.

As a follow up, Tony Wright MP was on The Daily Politics show today on an unrelated matter. At the end he briefly and movingly related his experience of losing a child some 24 years ago. He was still clearly moved and upset about his tragedy.

Sometimes, politics just isn't that important that it can't be put to one side for half an hour.

Nick
Your comments are appreciated by all on here that are interested in people and not just the pointless theatre of PMQs. the Camerons are going the a trauma right now that not many can understand unless you have experienced it your self.
I had a child a little lad who also had epilectic fits and much to my wife and myselfs distress also died in a fit at seven years old, unless you have had a disabled child you can not begin to understand what wonderful special loving children they are their little lives are so short and they love you totally you are their lives and the only life they will ever know, if the few odd cynics on this blog could ever have looked into the wonderful smiling face of their child as I did mine when he lay in my arms and finally stopped fitting looked up at me and would smile that was the most heartrending and yet the most fulfilling moments of my life, his mother has since
passed away but the grief never left her and I think of them both on a daily basis and have done for fortyfive years and will for the rest of my life. So let the Camerons have their time and my thoughts at least are with them.
My thoughts are always with the lads who lose their lives fighting to make the World a better place not just the recently killed or wounded but all those that we thank on november the 11th.

re 41
So aren't all children's deaths sad? Or is the Iraq war not a tragedy because of that?

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Firstly, let me say... my sincere condolences to the Cameron family. It must be truly heartbreaking.

Though as a journalist myself I am struggling to understand why this is the top story on 91Èȱ¬ News. It's a private matter and should be respected as such.

If it has some permanent or semi-permanent bearing on Mr Cameron's role as Leader - or his policy on health, down the line, then that's a different matter.

But when I hear the newsreader say: "And OF COURSE, that's our main story today" I am genuinely bemused, not least when you have the story of the airplane crash in Holland, with the death of nine people, possibly more, and certainly scores of injured.

I'd love to know what the thinking is on this - or am I becoming out of touch which the news agenda of my fellow broadcast journalists?

flamepatricia 43

Thank you for sharing that with us, I found it extremely moving. It puts into words far better than any of us can, how a parent must feel in these circumstances.

Sad new but it happens every day to us 'ordinary' people, PMQ's should never of been cancelled, its business as usual i am afraid. Callous but correct.

Whatever you may feel about politics- be you a Labour, Conservative, Lib-Dem etc. supporter- it is of no consequence today. The Camerons deserve the condolences of the nation today as does any family in their position.

There should be no resent towards the attention they are receiving; it is after all expected that their family events will receive coverage that the normal working family does not. Job or class does not affect what is a terrible tragedy.

The cancellation of PMQ's was completely justified- the show will go on but only after an appropriate break. No one feels like attacking and defending the government today and it is right that has been suspended.

And to Nick Robinson, of course he should be able to blog on it. It is, after all, a news item on which he feels he can blog his, and wider political reaction. There should be no need to present a topic to ensure wild, opposing debate. If the polticians are taking a break- so can we.

Deepest sympathies to the Cameron family- my prayers are with you.

I rarely post here but my thoughts are with David Cameron and his family for their sad but ineveitable loss.

It is not fair that children predecease their parents and the loss of any one child is a horrific experience that brings us all closer together in shared humanity that means that we can put aside our differences in political and social views and simply mourn the loss of young Ivan or indeed, any child.

Nick, as a conduit of information from the Politicos to the general public please feel free to let David Cameron know how many people sympathise with his loss and feel empathy towards the great sorrow and emptiness he must being feeling right now!

In sadness and sympathy.

Nick
Hopefully politics is suspended.
A very sad day for the Camerons and indeed anyone who has had the deep misfortune to lose a child, because it must all come rushing back when it's on the front page.
My daughter's 12 weeks old today and the news of little Ivan's passing has really hit me.

Full condolences to David and Samantha and family.

In any village, most people will be deeply saddened when someone dies, and it is heartening that the Westminster village is actually composed of human beings who react in the same way.

Profound condolences to David and Samantha Cameron and all their family. From his photos, Ivan Cameron was indeed a beautiful boy.

I do find the fact that you feel the need to "blog" about this and invite comments is somewhat reprehensible and in bad taste.

I think you could have made it an article, without the blog, much like the other political comment made about the movements in Labour leader politics

Whilst the Cameron's withdraw from Public Life to grieve for their greatly loved child, it is unfortunate that it is at a time of great public interest in our political leaders current "disasters"

Please do not allow this event to sway you from your public remit, whilst I appreciate the sentiments which you express, things must be happening which need you to report upon

Nick,

from now on every time a death of a British soldier is announced at PMQs then I will expect the MPs to sit in complete silence for that session listening to the questions and answers in total respect. If they do, then you can expect others to believe like me that this current parliament is a complete sham. Now maybo some of these MPs may understand about the deaths by knife crime in London of so many young people.

The trouble is that most of the deaths are amongst groups which MPs do not usualyy care very much for. I think that they are hypocrits.

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Nick@60..

Thank you for your explanation..much appreciated;at least by the Human Beings on here.

To Mr and Mrs Cameron

Deepest sympathy is felt for them

I am also a Bereaved parent who lost his son although much old under tragic circumstances and know what they must be going through.

Believe or not my name is Ivan

Blessings Ivan
from Glasgow

Much sympathy to DC on his terrible loss.
there is not much hope for Britain when a blog is full of people who offer condolences with the proviso "we despise the man, we hate the man etc". David Cameron is a beautiful person and hopefully will lead UK into a future where all people are given the respect they deserve. UK needs his skills urgently. He is a genuinely positive politician and we need more like him in all political parties.

60#

Fair enough Mr R, the question was asked and is now resolved. I would hope you understand the reasoning behind why some of the regular blogging community felt the way they did.

I for one, offer my apology for any slight implied in my posts on this subject and will make no further reference to the matter.

Politics has been cancelled today, and rightly so.

Nick is totally right to blog on this fact, and I'm glad the comments board is here so we can all post messages of sympathy and condolence to the Cameron family.

A very sad day - sincere condolences to all the Camerons.

my goodness, I can't believe the nerve of some people, telling Nick Robinson what he *should* be blogging about! He could write about what he had for lunch, the weather, whatever he likes - it's *his* blog...

As this is a story in the news, and the blog is called 'Newslog' - well I guess that means that Nick can write about it, and we can comment on it.

It is a very sad story, and I hope that the PM and David Cameron get the time to sit together and have a heart to heart about it, having gone through similar situations. It would be nice to find some common ground rather than just shouting at each other week after week. Where does it ever get them, or us. But that is another matter, for another time.

60. At 2:09pm on 25 Feb 2009, Nick Robinson (91Èȱ¬) wrote:
You'll see a number of comments have been removed by the moderators. Some of these relate to an untrue comment on another blog about my reporting, which itself has now been removed.

===

Nick, where are the emails then? None received, which is in breach of your own house rules.

Please look into this!

just been reading though some of the msgs and on the whole im disgusted at some of you saying politics goes on etc...

Have you stopped to think for 1 minute what this guy and his family are going thru??? You are all idiots who dont know your born, you carry on day in day out with your pathtic little lives then when somthing like this happens your all up in arms about it, i dont like david cameron at all but come on have a heart, put yourself in his shoes.

If anthing happened to my kids i would be devestated and im sure you would to. theres either alot of people without kids or some real heartless people leaving msgs and it aint right.

My sincere sympathies to the Cameron family. One thing though. This nation is famous for "not doing God". Those of us of a secular turn of mind are mildly offended by brown's references tot he "country's prayers". Many of us (most of us probably) consider prayer an irrational and pointless exercise and are offended by references to religion in a public context. It is our *thoughts* that are with the Camerons at this sad time.

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I don't see why people are saying that the death of Ivan Cameron should not be discussed. It is a personal tragedy, but it affects - profoundly - the man most likely to be out next Prime Minister.

I do think shelving PMQs - which is a piece of theatre - was appropriate. This is not because Ivan's death is a huge event in the global scheme of things, but MPs are human too. How can you call the Government to account aware that every word is being searched for signs of callousness.

As it was, Gordon Brown spoke movingly - and with profound understanding - of what the Camerons must be going through. It made him look like a leader - yes - but more importantly it revealed him for the decent man he is.

I hope that contribution by our PM is remembered - along with the bewildering grief our Opposition Leader will be enduring - when party politics gets back to normal, probably this time tomorrow.

#43 Flamepatricia "Why me? They may ask. "Why NOT me"? Was the phrase which helped me to cope."

Indeed. At times like this we remember our common humanity.

As John Donne said: "No man is an iland .... .... every mannes death diminisheth me because I am involved in mankinde.
Therefore send not to know for whom the bell tolls: it tolls for thee.

Heartfelt condolences to the Camerons.

My most sincere condolences to Mr & Mrs Cameron for their tragic loss.

The pain that they feel today, and indeed that all others who lose children will know should transcend the body politic.

I praise Gordon Brown for his suggestion to suspend PMQ's. Parliament is also a place of work and it seems most appropriate to pay respect to a colleague in this way.

I really hope that the 91Èȱ¬ and Nick Robinson in particular review the need for a blog on this issue. It's not a matter for serious political discussion but more for a vote of sympathy for a fellow human being.

I dont see why people should criticise Nick for this blog or GB for cancelling PMQ's... something like this shows the humanity of the people at the top of this country. This also shows how personal circumstances effect political attitudes.

It is a valuable lesson to us all that politicians are also human and have emotion.

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Sincere condolences to the Cameron family from the Moraymint clan.

It is sad that it takes such a dreadful event to restore some humanity and some perspective to politics. My unreserved condolences go to David and Samantha Cameron and their family for their loss; my sympathies go also to Gordon Brown and to all those others here who have gone through the terrible experience of losing a child, the news of Ivan's death will indeed have refocused thoughts and memories of their own loss with a painful sharpness.

I've just read (with tears in my eyes) a second piece on the 91Èȱ¬ website, written by an incredibly strong and brave lady called Claire Bates, describing her feelings about Ivan's death with regard to her own son who suffers from a similar condition to Ivan Cameron. She talks of her fears for her own son's future, and describes how her son's condition has changed her, giving her a greater understanding of values and what really matters. Nick Robinson's article describes how David Cameron was changed by Ivan's condition, how Ivan was able to redefine some of his father's outlook and values.

A disabled or handicapped child impacts even more on the parents' lives than a fully able child, due to the extra demands that he or she places upon them. The void that they leave is therefore greater; the sense of loss even more acute. I hope and pray that the Camerons can in time move on from the sadness of the loss of Ivan, and that they will be able to draw solace from the knowledge of how he will live on in each of them.

There is a thing in politics that those on the outside never quite get. Most people in politics are there because they care about their fellow men and women and of course children and all family life. Having been invoved in local politics I have witnessed at first hand how the sorrow flows outside of all political divides when a tradegy strikes a fellow politican.
We may disagree in politics, but I always like to think that there are ' bigger things in life that unite us than divide us'
Since I heard the sad news today a special song, keeps sounding in my head, that of John Lennon and his song 'Beautifull Boy'
Danny

Grandantidote:

I must admit that I rarely agree with much of your writing, though it is clear that you always write from the heart. Your post at #52 is deeply touching and I do sincerely raise my metaphorical hat in salute to you.

I wish you peace in your memories of your wife and son.

Fine words Nick. I completely agree with you.

I've been researching my family tree recently and have been stunned at the amount of child mortality that existed a century ago. I can only imagine what it must be like to experience that trauma first-hand, but even seeing the names of the children that were lost to illness in the context of my family tree was disturbing...

Things have moved on over the last 100 years, thanks to science and, yes, politics...

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Anyone who has had the blessing of having children, would have had a lump in their throat this morning after hearing this tragic news. You immediately look at your own kids and think the unthinkable.
Of course they had to suspend the day. Get off your political orange boxes and be human for a day.

My heart goes out to the Cameron family. Losing a child has to be one of the most devastating losses any person can suffer. Thinking of you all

This is a trully terrible story. The death of a child, any child always brings out sincere empathy for the parents.

I honestly hope the media leave the family alone for a while, its a news story that OUGHT NOT BE COVERED.

Let them grieve in peace.

54 grandantidote
my post was removed because I didn't approve of Constable Shoe's comments. once again its those that infringe on these blogs are OK but if you remonstrate with them your moderated.
Sorry about that folks but uncaring people annoy me when its unecessary, perhaps you have to lose a child to feel that anger.

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"Today I have no doubt that politics will be suspended.."

But has anyone told Lord Mandelson ?

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Cameron, like Brown, is a public figure and when a very private and personal event occurs it is actually quite right that the event is reported and commented upon. But in truth there is not a lot that most of us can say. My guess (and it is of course only a guess) is that the Prime Minister has phoned David Cameron to offer his personal sympathy and that Cameron, knowing that Brown was similarly once so bereaved, appreciated this. But that conversation was private - and from now on the Camerons should be allowed to have moments in absolute privacy - and all the blogging and reporting should cease.

"The depth of grief is impossible to imagine" Indeed it is, Nick .. and even after 40 years, I can assure you that it loses none of it's depth. For one refreshing moment, perhaps, today, politics has become unimportant. Deepest condolences to the Camerons

[#74
Many of us (most of us probably) consider prayer an irrational and pointless exercise and are offended by references to religion in a public context.]

The 2001 census identified 41 MILLION Christians in Great Britain. So you're well wrong if you think you speak for most people. And how on earth can you be offended by a kind sentiment?

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