91Èȱ¬

I wouldn't expect anything else from a politician who learnt his 'trade' from Tony Blair! Someone should put slug pellets down in the House of Commons.

Interesting reading Nick.

Gordon Brown - considered.

The Conservatives (in your words, Tories) - preening.

No mention of stopping early release.

Nick the key issue is not whether this announcement should have been made to Parliament but whether the policy is correct. Id like to congratulate the PM on bringing these troops home. I only wish he could bring all our fantastic armed personnel in Iraq home for Christmas. I for one think we need to give our armed forces a heroes welcome. so well done to them and well done to the PM.

This is what you get in the way of policy if you set out to (a) look statesmanlike, serious and committed and (b) need to recognise that having troops in Iraq is not exactly popular. You announce a limited force withdrawal, over time, with conditions, and do so on a visit to the 'front line' for a photo opportunity.

I'm afraid that I've come to the conclusion that Mr Brown is just as much a 'spin merchant' as Mr Blair. Unlike Blair - who off-loaded policy initiative after policy initiative on us, the bemused voters, when the going got tough - Brown wants to persuade us he is a measured, calm politician who can be trusted. The effect is not much different (except for the more sparing and less raucous use of irrelevant policy announcements and the insistent wearing of a blue tie to signal Brown's approachability to Conservatives!)

The sad thing about all of this is that we seem to be entering an era in domestic politics in which the focus of spin is to be those very solid virtues of honesty, integrity and statesmanlike calculation that UK voters suspect none of the current crop of UK politicians have in any measure - Brown included. Spin will be used to make up the shortfall.

Where's the opinion polls Nick?

By this time last week the Beeb was flashing polls showing Gordon's massive lead over the tories. It was on Newsnight, News24, 91Èȱ¬ online.

This week - silence.......

On the "Troops out" issue, this is just another ploy by Gordon.

There he is - second leader of the free world, a statesman, a figure with gravitas who can afford to be away from home in conference season because who could possibly stand up to such a political titan? Not those political lightweights known as the "tories" and certainly not the uber-light "Libs".

No - it's time to focus abroad, like his successful predecessor did and strut the international stage.

Parliament? An irrelevance!

Troops? Line up for the photo please!

Have you all got that in your notebooks? Good - see you at the election launch next week.

I don't like or understand why the Prime Minister is pushing so hard. A general election looks , and announcements look like firing a canon in peoples faces. While the Prime Minister's Reality Distortion Field is in overdrive he may get away with it but this sort of thing is of dubious merit and doesn't win friends. The gap between rhetoric and delivery on domestic and foreign policy fronts is widening.

Oliver Letwin's "" speech was quite interesting. It's underlying message was quite sound even if it was badly expressed and misunderstood. Indeed, it's right on the button in a way that the Prime Minister is not. The Prime Minister may be able but is stumbling, and Letwin may only have half a clue but is hitting the target. The poll lead is a bubble waiting to burst and why the Prime Minister should learn to calm down.

Interestingly, the troubles in Burma provide a handy learning opportunity. While some gnash their teeth and tear their clothes over the colourful and photogenic democracy revolution coming to a grinding halt, I'm much happier. Getting attention, building consensus, and developing necessary skills and attitudes . Move too fast and violence and collapse is likely. In many cases the slower path is the faster path.

Britain's military involvement in Iraq looks like ending as it began - in deceit and political chicanery. Sad to see a British Prime Minister manipulating our armed forces like this in an attempt to gain political advantage.

Brown will not get off with this sickening stunt. I'm no fan of Liam Fox but he is spot on. Using troops risking their lives for a photo op during the Tory conference is just too much - even Blair would not have sunk this low

I think Brown has miscalculated - this is playing politics with people's lives and hopefully, the British voter will see through this cynical manoeuvre. There was no need for him to visit Basra today and his troop cut announcement should have made in the House of Commons next week.

Hi Nick

Just a quick question regarding your comment "a decisive break with the Blairite past."

I mean it all seems so long ago now: but didn't Gordon Brown have a fairly senior position in those Blair governments? And as such would have had a large say in those policies he is trying to make a break from?

In which case your comment should read: "a decisive break with the Blairite-Brownite past."

I'm fairly sure he voted for the Iraq war for instance? Perhaps you could ask one of your young 91Èȱ¬ trainees to do some fact checking?

Obviously, if I am wrong and Gordon Brown has had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to go to war; or with deciding the current Labour programme, then I withdraw my comment.

"Be clear about another thing. Gordon Brown has just broken his own promise to make significant announcements in Parliament even though he is due to make a statement on Monday in the Commons."

So why is this not commented upon in the headline article on the 91Èȱ¬ website?

Will it be highlighted in TV news articles?

Or is the 91Èȱ¬ happy to aid and abet Gordon Brown in his cynical pre election manoeuvres?

Can anyone be surprised that Gordon Brown has yet again failed to keeo his word. Parliament will be used only when it suits Brown's purpose like his predecesor Blair. It is surprising that so many people have failed to note just how often Brown promieses one thing but does the complete opposite. Not a man to be trusted in any shape or form.

It's a photo op, spin and nothing more.

When is the 91Èȱ¬ going to call it as we see it?

There are lots of good things coming from the Tory conference. Also, there is an unwritten rule not to make announcements during each other's conferences.

That's Gordon's contempt and most disappointing of all, the 91Èȱ¬'s attitude to their coverage of the Tory conference too.

Hi

How is the cold?

An election announcement, next Tuesday you think.

This means an elction day of say Thursday 1st November despite the following -

Some of labour lead must be regarded as soft.
The economic outlook is not that great
The Labour Party in Scotland is a bit of a mess
The weather and darkness may affect the turnout

If an election is held in November 2007, then the next one must be held before November 2012 which is Olympic year. Would they hold an elction just before that event. Will that not mean an election in 2011. Why bother now and not just carry on until 2010.

Not a big suprise - Flash has not changed his spots - he has been doing it for the last 10 years.

I hope you or Andrew Marr will remind him of the last point the next time you are granted a little chat with the great leader.

I've voted Labour for the last few elections but not again. I believed Gordon Brown when he said he wanted a new style of Parliamentary politics. Many recent events have proved he's an even a bigger spinner than Tony Blair.

i do believe that full withdrawl from iraq is necessary for the sake of our troops and the treasuries coffers. However, while the intial cause for the war is debatableits time has passed and now a step by step withdrawl scheme must be developed and stratgic and well planned switch of power from british forces to iraqi forces. study the passed and we see that when these operations are rushed lives are lost and systems fail. we owe it to the iraqi people to provide them with a safe state whatever it may be

A high profile visit timed to coincide with the Tory conference and incorporating a headline grabbing announcement of troop withdrawals, half of which were announced previously and a quarter of which have already been implemented.

Same New Labour, same old Gordon.

Another broken promise by Gordo... you can trust him as much as Bliar.

They are piling up and parliament has not even returned yet.

Brown will dither because he will now be scared. Although he has hankered for this job for years, he is in a vulnerable position. He cannot turn his back on the last 10 years as easily as he would like, and this means that his posturing will lead to further gains by the Tories.
The backlash against Labour at the last election was nothing, this time it will be greater and polls are like stocks, can go up as well as down. Please speak to your spin doctor before going to the population

Oh Gordon, Gordon, Gordon! Playing the Iraq card in the middle of the Tory conference? Tut! Tut! Tut! You are playing it exactly wrong! You are giving it all away! Who is advising you - the boy-scouts you have surrounded yourself with? Blair will be be laughing himself silly!

This looks like self-induced, glaze-eyed panic. This looks like a politician drunk high on the vine of blatant opportunism, broken promises and transparent spin, rushing crazily to his own destruction - stirring vivid images of a mad King Lear tossing away his kingdom.

Talk about 'The Big Fist'? - more like 'The Ham Fist'!

So that's two broken promises... (announcements in Parliament and the EU Constitution)
No wonder he's racing for an election, pretty soon people are going to realise that he's got nothing to add to the UK but broken promises.

Here we go you tories like it all your own way I bet when you lot were
kids it was its my ball and your not playing.Grow up and look at the big picture your mob spin and then spin themselves back out again.the opinion polls are still the same cameron is still way behind.

Come on Nick, how can you get away with such a tame comment!

This was nothing other than a cheap and cynical electioneering stunt by Gordon Brown to distract everyone from the Conservative Party Conference - and the 91Èȱ¬ has "fallen for it" hook, line and sinker!

How 91Èȱ¬ reporting of British politics works, Part 1.

When reporting New Labour policy announcements:

"New Labour today announced plans to...."

When reporting Conservative policy announcements:

"Labour today criticised/rubbished Tory plans to...."

-----

How 91Èȱ¬ reporting of British politics works, Part 2.

Over ten years ago Labour asked to be referred to as "New Labour" and the nation and all it's media duly obliged.

Last year the Conservatives asked for the term "Tory" to be dropped. Can you guess which term the 91Èȱ¬ choose to use 90% of the time?

Will the man stop at nothing in his desire to destroy the Tories? It's bad enough that he announced this in Tory conference week, but it's a complete and utter disgrace that he promised to announce serious and significant announcements like this to parliament first.

I'm desperately clinging onto the hope that the electorate finally sees through this charade that is 'New Brown'!

Excuse me for asking but had not 500 hundred of these troop withdrawals already been announced in July.If so is this just more Brown spinning the figures.And secondly another example of his short memory when it comes to spin.Major announcements in parliament first? Not for Gordon. Not flash just dishonest.

Len

Brown or Blair does it matter, same smoke same mirrors - Brown like Blair tells a good story but they are for the fairies - no person with more than one brain cell could possibly see that Brown is being honest on this one - he blew that when not going to Parliament first - so like Blair those who we actually vote for matter not a jot, only the Beloved Leader in No. 10 - New Labour's style makes Putin look good.

"Both were rejected in favour of a gradual draw down of troops of just the sort Tony Blair would have pursued if he'd still been PM."

Rejected by whom ? The Americans ?

When is the 91Èȱ¬ going to realise that towing the line with the Labor Spin machine and missing the point of what is really going on in the electorates mind is going to badly backfire on there credibility.

Lets see the opinion polls now Nick!

Nick,
Have you joined the 91Èȱ¬ Labour bandwagon. When will the 91Èȱ¬ challenge Gordon Brown in the same way as you challenge David Cameron.
I have never ever seen so much bias in your coverage.
No news headlines on the Conservative conference, no opinion polls, yet this happened every day with the Labour Party conference.

What happened to fairness!!!
Time to scrap the licence fee or should I call it a Labour Party fund raising tax.

Whether you voted Labour or not we live in a democracy and are all collectively responsible for the fact our country went to war in Iraq. Not enough of us voted Lib Dem or went on the streets to stop it.

Having gone in it looks like we will leave it in a state bordering on civil war with hundreds of thousands dying each year and insufficient progress made on putting the infrastructure in place to launch Iraq on the way to becoming a modern, democratic state.

I believe we have a debt of honour to the people of Iraq that will only be satisfied when they enjoy the same freedoms and safety we do. This grotesque political opportunism will put back co-operation between the West and the Islamic states a generation.

We have gone in, made a mess and got out when things turned unpleasant. Proud to be British?

I'm not surprised at Gordon Brown's opportunism, he has never stepped up to the plate when it has mattered in the past to support Tony Blair in difficult times, he is a man not to be trusted, and he is the reason I will vote Conservative next time, having faithfully voted Labour in every election for the past 40 years.I suspect there may be a lot more like me out there!

I'm not surprised at Gordon Brown's opportunism, he has never stepped up to the plate when it has mattered in the past to support Tony Blair in difficult times, he is a man not to be trusted, and he is the reason I will vote Conservative next time, having faithfully voted Labour in every election for the past 40 years.I suspect there may be a lot more like me out there!

Let me get this straight. While announcing a snap election during the Tory Party Conference would---said Labour---seem too cynical and opportunistic, announcing a bigger-than-expected troop withdrawal during the Tory Party Conference, wouldn't?

Gordon Brown has just shot himself in the foot---actually, the head. The man is in overkill. And all over the UK tonight the pennies are going to drop with the voters.

He has done a very foolish thing, for such a brilliant man. And that's because he's scared.

(And immoral, too---he's making political decisions with the lives of our brave troops.)

Daniel's post about the 2012 Olympics is interesting, but I think he's made the wrong conclusion. Perhaps the Brown camp's calculations are more along these lines: win an election this November, serve a full term and hold the next one in November 2012, just after a successful Olympic games when national pride and the "feelgood factor" would provide very favourable conditions for the incumbent party. There's a slight risk that the Olympics could go badly, e.g. poor planning or terrorist attack (although the latter would probably also favour the government), but overall it looks like a sound plan.

Nick why do you assume the election announcement won't be till next week?I wouldn't be surprised if the PM were to make the announcement tomorrow,immediately after David Camerons conference speech,thereby knocking it off the headlines and thursdays papers and ruining any chance of a tory bounce from the conference.

Love the Tories talking about using our Forces as a political football...Faulklands anyone?

Come on Nick, how can you get away with such a tame comment!

This was nothing other than a cheap and cynical electioneering stunt by Gordon Brown to distract everyone from the Conservative Party Conference - and the 91Èȱ¬ has "fallen for it" hook, line and sinker!

At the time of writing the front page of the 91Èȱ¬ News website doesn't cover anything on the Tory conference, but much on the Brown/Iraq thing.

I live in hope that the 91Èȱ¬ would report Brown's visit as the cynical ploy it is, but can't somehow see that their "impartiality" brief will stretch that far.

Have you met anyone who is surprised at the lack of integrity of Brown? Now he has realised that the electorate are starting to make the connection between him and the last 10 wasted years he is panicking and trying to deflect media attention from the Conservative Conference - which of course the 91Èȱ¬ are keen to help with. The guy is as full of spin as Phoney Tony ever was.

This is a cynical ploy. There really is nothing to choose between Balir and Brown, except that you new up front what Blair would do. Gordon was co-Prime Minister allegedly during the last few years. Any mistakes are his mistakes as much as Blair. Pensions more so.

He has begun to spin out of habit and broken promises that he made with Labour in their manitfesto. To watch John Denham on QT last week was painful as he said there was no need for a constitution "treaty" referendum. This photo op to Iraq is just awful.

I've dallied with Labour over spin versus substance for too long now. Time for a change.

From listening to Mr.Brown since he became PM shows that he has learned an awful lot from Mr,Blair, particularly 'spin', and like Mr.Blair he is not to be trusted.
What does this man take us all for, he is treating us all as a bunch of idiots awaiting and drooling over his forthcoming edicts, and there has been enough of them since he took over.
The great british public appear to have very short memories, was it not the Labour party that promised 'Education, Education, Education', 10 years ago; yet we are still seeing children going into senior school and leaving school who cannot read and write. Broken promise!
What about crime, 'tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime, another broken promise.
Yet we see no let up in taxation, so where has all the money gone. Ask the question and you will not get a straight answer, its still all spin.
So Nick, are we again seeing another of these false promises that troops are to be returned to their loved ones. Believe it when it happens.

It seems entirely reasonable to make this announcement in Basra where our servicepeople are.

How contemptible for Major minor to criticise the decision on the radio when he clearly doesn't understand it, nor is privy to the facts which inform it.

Major often intervenes, always in the Conservative Party interest, and the 91Èȱ¬ journos always make out it is a big deal.

Major minor won one election aganist the unelectable Neil Kinnock, and then lost most of the family silver on Black Wednesday, and listened to his party tear itself apart over Europe. End of.

Hi Nick
Both parties are at it - spinning you call it.
It's all par for the course as they say.
OK, so Brown has visited our boys in Iraq announced that some of them are coming home. Good thing isn't it? Good for morale perhaps. Timing has upset the Tories -Cynical? Oh dear!

Mr Shadow Chancellor has announced unbalanced proposals to change stamp duty and increase threshold of death tax to £1 milliion. That's made everyone sit up. They think there is an election coming up but I think Brown has been teasing them.

I was once a strong Conservative, that is until John Major departed office. I regret to say that the poor old Tories are bound to lose unless their leaders stop crying in their soup all the time and become more positive as in the past. No chance of a bounce back otherwise.
Best wishes

Nick

Best be wary of this one. According to some reports 500 of the 1,000 were already detailed as returning before Christmas, and 270 have already returned to the UK.

So this is hardly new news. Do we detect a pattern here?

brown is surely not a conviction politician but a calculative politician. is this the same brown who was lambasting Mugabe over the Zimbabwe situation at the labour party conference while behind the photoshoots his government is in court fighting for the deportation of zimbabwean asylum seekers to a man brown admits in public to be a dictator and dangerous!!surely people wont start thinking blair was better than brown?????

Spin is dead. Long live the spin.

1000 troops withdrawn, 500 of which have been announced before? Reminds me of one of Gordon's budget speeches.

Gordon Brown stole my hospital.

Couldn't he have spent the day kissing babies, rather than breaking his Parliment-first rule and playing politics with soldiers?

The spin-cycle is alive and well in New Labour and shame on you slavishly lapping it up.

Once there was a time when Conservatives put England first, not any more.

Shouldn't such so-called British patriots be pleased to see British troops back in the UK? (Or, at least, out of Iraq).

Shame on you, Tories. Trying to score cheap political points on such an issue!

a cynical attempt by a man who shows nothing but contempt for anyone who disagrees with him i just wish there was some one else to vote for

John Major asked the question on Radio 5 tonight, why now? Why did Gordon("I do not spin but will announce in Parliarment!!!") Brown, feel that he had to announce the withdrawl of an extra 500 troops on top of the already announced 500 troops.They are not withdrawing until Christmas, the planned announcement to Parliament is next week. SO WHY NOW?? Brown has always spin and always will. He is however worse than Blair in that he spins and deceives, just look at the budgets!!

I don't see anything cynical in this; and if the Conservatives think this is not the sort of thing they would do (pre-election?) they need their heads examining.

Get rid of him and his party! As chancellor he cut funding for the armed services now as PM he pretends to be their best friend!

Gordon Brown has no respect for Parliament or for the voters. Get rid of this government that pretends to be ou best friends while sly taking more money from us!

Go home to Scotland Gordon - by the next flight (sorry we cant fly now) next train

No 10 says the idea of Brown playing politics over this is preposterous!! Really! We are talking about Gordon Brown the ultimate in super-intelligent political animals?

This is as disingenuous as Alistair Campbell, paid Blair knows what for being a communication guru, denying sexing up 'that' dossier as 'only playing around with language'.

Surely Brown does not really believe that the voters will en masse fall for the 'no spin here' spin he has been laying on with a trowel...

Gordon Brown said the troops would be redeployed - guess they will be off to Afghanistan then where they are really needed, but why didn't anyone challenge Gordon on that. Not such good news after all.

Most fair-minded people think that the Conservative Party conference should have the same space as the LibDems and Labours.

So Gordon Brown's strategy of trying to make a major announcement each day - you mention the NHS review being brought forward to Thursday - simply reinforces the thought that Brown and Labour are desparate to keep the Tories out of the newspapers this week.

That, I think, is a major blunder by Brown.

Gordon Brown should not be allowed to play politics with UK troops. Last week the pathetic council tax rebate, and this week a withdrawal already done in a large part.
Surely this means no election..

What has happened to coverage of the Conservative Party Conference today? No coverage of important speeches by Liam Fox, David Davis and Ian Duncan Smith at all on the 91Èȱ¬ News at 10.00. Just comment by David Cameron on Gordon Brown's photo opportunity in Iraq.

I feel so stupid. For a while there, a few weeks ago, I genuinely felt good about the world - with Blair gone forever and in his place someone who looked like he was going to stand up for out tattered democracy and end the rampant greed at the top.

Week by week this feeling has been eroded. If Brown calls an election so soon into his new job - apparently forgetting that we elect parties, not prime ministers - for the first time in my life i feel I may have to vote conservative.

It seems as if Brown needs to be taught a lesson about democracy - and nothing could drum that message home than a reduced majority and the prospect of three or four lonely years as a failed prime minister.

The astonishing thing about all these posts is the almost 100% disapproval of Brown's actions in them.

I read lots of comments when Tony Blair was leader and whilst many objected to Labour's policies, large numbers were supportive. Not today, it looks like they have made a big mistake

Bob Ainsworth got it right tonight on Newsnight. In spite of Paxo's theatrical (and spurious) attempt to argue that troops already withdrawn could not be counted as part of a reduction in troop levels, exasperated Bob pointed out that coming down from 5500 to 4500 had to be a 1000 reduction. "What else could it be?".

I know the Tories are upset, poor dears, but they really should learn to grow up. And what has happened to the 2 or 3 billion black hole in Osborne's sums? The media's collective decision not to dig into that today was a bit of a surprise, though I don't suppose it should have been. I imagine it would need a bit of actual work to get to the bottom of his inability to do simple arithmetic, so it's alwasy a lot easier just to retreat into innuendo and conspiracy theory.

Gordon Brown's little speech in Basra didn't sound like the Parliament dodging announcement Nick Robinson and the piqued Tory Party claim.

Apparently Iraq's Leader was about to make the same announcement, so did the complainants prefer that a foreigner made the first mention of the figures re UK armed personnel?

As the Commons will get a chance to question him on it when a formal announcement is made next week all the sqeals seem pretty self serving histrionics anyway.

It sounded like a little respect for our service people out there to act as he did.

The reports are so far from the truth that it is reasnable to cite them as hysterical disinformation verging on lies.

As any dispassionate observer might expect from the anti-Labour Government 91Èȱ¬ - tory and crypto-trotskites predominate whenever Iraq is mentioned - the Tory opposition in self congratulation maintained a stranglehold on the political news anyway.

John Major ALWAYS turns out to root for his old allegiance, why is it always made out that this is very exceptional and significant? Even Hezza was on the other day, why can't the media leave these fossils alone?

By the time Blunkett, Vaz and a few other rent-a-quote specialists have been trundled out it is a wonder we get any real political coverage at all.

Having read through the responses I thought the range of opinions was very interesting.

On the matter of the timing of the forthcoming election and subsequent ones, very few terms have gone five years and those that have have usually resulted in the return of the opposition not the government. I therefore think it is highly unlikely that the election after the next would be in the November of 2012. Still you never know.

Brown also faces the Blair problem, namely are you intending to serve for a full (second, in his case) term. This is not assuming he wins. This is a question for anytime he calls the election. Anybody with a memory will recall this haunted Blair from day one of the 2005 election campaign. So I guess having waited 10 years he may wait a little longer than 90 days before calling. Again who knows. Apart from the press, radio and TV who are in election fever, that is.

As for Iraq withdrawal announcements I find this and the visit very hard to to stomach. I was never a fan of the Bush led intervention in the first case but I agree with posts that have suggested (a) it is a definite miscalculation by Brown - he should have announced such withdrawals to parliament given that he has promised to give parliament a veto on war in the first place (b) it seems Brown is being driven by media speculation and is trying (who needs to?) to destabilise the Tories.

A more measured approach from Brown is all that is needed. It should be remembered that the performance of the officially titled David Cameron's Conservative candidate at the recent Southall and Ealing by-election was a meltdown for the tories. Hand picked by central office and visited at the constituency FIVE times by the party leader, at a time of well publicised Labour in-fighting in the constituency added sweet nothing to the conservative vote.

That should tell Brown a lot. They are still behind Labour in terms of seats (198) than labour at their nadir in 1983 (209). I hope for more from a Labour government than I would ever hope from a Tory one. That is not to say however that I am not thoroughly disappointed with the last 10 years, and that I am mildly disappointed with Brown. Maybe after all he needs a full and clear mandate sooner rather than later.

Alex, doesn't Harold Wilson's unexpected failure in the 1970 election after poor football results for England, and the history of British sport since, suggest that it is a wild gamble to rely on the Olympics, or anyhting else, to bring suffciient successes to bouy the electorate into supporting HMG in an election?

Life isn't like that, neither is politics.

Gordon Brown has made a serious error by going to Iraq hen he did and trying to upstage the Tory conference.

If he is not careful we shall have as a PM an Eton educated rich kid who has never had a prorer job in his life running our affairs.

Is it true that he has just written a book titled "My early struggles"?

God forebid

Brian Dowson

Oh dear, oh dear, Gordo has scored a spectacular own goal. He tells us (in the middle of a Tory conference) that he will bring 1000 troops home from Basra by Christmas.
As newsnight has told us: it's all Labour spin.
500 troops are already home. The other 500 are in Germany.
The wheels seem to be falling off Gordo's bandwagon.

I was prepared to give Gordon the benefit of the doubt although he was involved with everything Tony Blair did. I did worry about his habit of vanishing at the first sign of trouble. Not too impressed by his start but well, he had a couple of years to prove himself. No more: the Labout Party conference could have been a version of the Stepford Wives. The talk of an election was stupid, he has boxed himself into a corner for an election no one I meet wants or the country needs. Say what you like about Tony, and I was not one of his fans, at times he showed real courage even if I thought he was wrong and his speeches were sometimes inspiring. The stunt today was a step too far and demeaning for a PM, our troops are not a prop for a photo opportunity and the opportunism blatant, to try to upstage the Conservative Party Conference. When I learned from Newsnight that of the 1000 troops 270 were already home, 230 were on the way home and 500 were still in Germany not having been in Iraq in the first place. No more spin! at least Tony was good at it. Turns out that Gordon is just a typical product of the incestuous Scottish Labour machine, I am a Scot and know what I am talking about, any Scot does. I will be voting Conservative; anyone will be better that this lot, all the big hitters have been ruthlessly sidelined leaving only Gordon and his hapless acolytes whose only purpose seems to be to carry the can for any mistakes while our Great Leader hides until the danger has passed. Our brilliant PM has been too clever by half, he has managed to unite the Conservatives, whose conference has been much more interesting, shown himself to be a liar, annoucements made to Parliament first, and such a control freak that his Ministers are just mouthpieces for what he wants, mostly trying to defend the undefensible. If he wins a snap election God help us all, five years of this man induces deep depression.

Delighted to see these comments on the blog.....the great British public are not to be taken in by the great manipulator, G Brown esq who, it appears, will stoop to ANY level to try and fool us. But we are not to be patronised and we are more discerning. Yet another broken promise....referenda; "personal" health care when we are now reduced to being just a number on a waiting list to be treated by any surgeon in any hospital never mind the quality of care; government guarantees of savings (after the Northen Rock fiasco) only to be withdrawn the following week...the list goes on. And this from the man who stood side by side with Tony Blair and indeed bankrolled all the said policies which apparently need revising now. Come on Nick....when are we going to see a proper grilling of Brown at interview?

Nick, should the Govt. keep quiet and everyone including the PM stay put cause there is something going on somewhere in UK to con the British public?
My memory is still quite good Nick, and only 3 weeks ago we had Cameron jumping on the bandwagon insinuating that the Mr. King (BOE) acted on Northern Rock, because of political pressure, and Cameron also lied and said, that because of this it is now a fact that the BOE is not independent. Who should we believe Nick? No wonder that only 16% of the British public believe Cameron. Good night Nick.

If Gordon Brown really wants to have a snap election next month, let him do it. Withdrawing our troops is just a political stun, but if he really wants to win the election, this is not the reason for me to vote for him. labour is just a one man team, only Gordon Brown. All the big guns within the party are gone, now his cabinet team are just a second string team. Law and order and economy are the real issues. I agree with the Tory, you can't solve the ASBO without solving the basic fundamental problem. If the parents can't raise their children properly, they are no fit to have children and that's why we have so many ASOB in our society and this will eventually destroy our society and our image and it won't help the economy too.
Wait and see what will happen in Jan or Feb next year, the UK economy will gradually decline.

Brian @ 4.
The reason why the 91Èȱ¬ haven't reported any polls so far this week is that there haven't been any.

Gordon Brown is using cynical tactics to draw the attention of the floating voter away from the Tory conference.

When will the 91Èȱ¬ publicise Nick's comments on their headline page? Surely as chief political analyst he deserves some space?

Let's just hope the average voter sees through ths latest piece of Labour spin, broken promises and opportunism.

Well, I guess we were all waiting to see the "real" Gordon Brown, and now we have. After his faux "consensus politics" and last week's stage-managed attempt to create some kind of "man of the people" image, now we're getting the real thing: bare-faced cynical political manoeuvring where even the soldiers who risk their lives every day are nothing more to him than pawns to be used for political gain. He has also, as Nick points out been found out as a liar after promising parliament that any announcements on troop numbers would be made to them first.

I personally look forward to getting an opportunity to vote against this contemptible man.

Reading through the various comments above I find it very difficult to believe labour can be as far ahead as the polls suggest.

It seems people who follow politics can see through Gordon Brown, but the question people should really ask is who do you want to vote for?

What are the alternatives?

As a 25 year old I find many of my generation are disillusioned by the state of British politics and they find the constant bickering between parties a complete turn off.
If they want to discover how to appeal to the younger voter perhaps they should try honesty and integrity, aren't those qualities we value highly in a potential leader of the country?

I watched both Gordon Brown and David Cameron's interviews on the Andrew Marr show.

Why couldn't either of them give a straight answer to any questions?
It just fuels the theory of dishonesty and manipulation of the British voter.

I think people would find it a refreshing change to get some straight, honest answers.

I bet Churchill never minced his words...

I've never heard so much drivel in my life. You say that GB has considered various other options. But how do you know? Who has told you? As usual, what you have written has come across as pure speculation. Isn't it about time the 91Èȱ¬, and all other media for that matter, started reporting fact rather than speculation?

I also notice that you rely on the use of the passive voice more and more in your reporting. This denotes to me that you are either making it up or your sources are somewhat less than reliable and you are,therefore, unable to quote them.

Well, I guess we were all waiting to see the "real" Gordon Brown, and now we have. After his faux "consensus politics" and last week's stage-managed attempt to create some kind of "man of the people" image, now we're getting the real thing: bare-faced cynical political manoeuvring where even the soldiers who risk their lives every day are nothing more to him than pawns to be used for political gain. He has also, as Nick points out been found out as a liar after promising parliament that any announcements on troop numbers would be made to them first.

I personally look forward to getting an opportunity to vote against this contemptible man.

Nick,

Why does nobody seem to acknowledge that the only reason we are withdrawing troops from Iraq is because we do not have the resources to fight on two fronts and they will not be home for any time at all before they find themselves in Afghanistan fighting the Taleban. The UK wants to be a world power on a domestic budget - an impossible task. the Government needs to either increase the defence budget or limit itself to domestic policies.

Nick,

Finally it seems that the public are waking up to the fact that Gordo is not the man they thought he was. He is as responsible for Iraq, high taxation, wasted spending, high immigration, poor public services, etc. as ever Tony Bliar was.

Might they also be waking up to the fact that while Gordo seeks to keep his fingers firmly clamped around their wallets, the Conservatives appear willing to allow us all to keep more of our hard earned cash or savings?

With any luck, the younger acolytes will convince Gordo to go for an early election, and in turn they will all be out of a job, including the ever mournful wee Dougie.

I never thought I would feel closer to the Tories than Labour (and for the record, I work for the Lib Dems). Brown promised to remove spin and restore trust - he's done nothing of the sort. He's playing a game with the entire country over whether or not we'll have an election, and now playing politics with 2000, no 1000 troops coming home, of whom 250 already are, the rest were already announced, and 500 are actually in Germany. I can't believe I'm already longing for the relative honesty of the Bliar administration.

Nick,

Finally it seems that the public are waking up to the fact that Gordo is not the man they thought he was. He is as responsible for Iraq, high taxation, wasted spending, high immigration, poor public services, etc. as ever Tony Bliar was.

Might they also be waking up to the fact that while Gordo seeks to keep his fingers firmly clamped around their wallets, the Conservatives appear willing to allow us all to keep more of our hard earned cash or savings?

With any luck, the younger acolytes will convince Gordo to go for an early election, and in turn they will all be out of a job, including the ever mournful wee Dougie.

The implications of what Gordon Brown is doing using spin as with any politician is highly damaging to the British voting people. Further so that he is the Prime Minister. Lead by example? Spin some more he shouts from the top of Parliament! Does he not understand that when you spin, no matter what it is, creates distrust and like a paint brush, it covers all politicians.

Let us not forget that this is Gordon Brown ex Chancellor of the Exchequer. People should not be too quick to forget what he has done in his last 10 years. Do the tax dance and steal from the pensions to highlight two, of many.

Same old Gordon, just more spin doctors. It is a shame that he could not invest more time sorting out the increasing issues in Britain than holding meetings and playing with spin tops…..

No one has asked the question regarding the troop withdrawals - how many are being deployed to Afghanistan. I know some are going to be posted there after they have returned from Basra. They are not just 'coming home' as we are led to believe.

I am disgusted, but not surprised, at the 91Èȱ¬'s supine and biased behaviour in this report, and other reports covering Gordon Brown's photo-opportunity in Iraq. Opening with the spin-doctor's "1000 withdrawn" unchallenged gives the Labour party publicity aid and assistance at the start of an election campaign.

This spin is an untruth, as Brown has double counted the withdrawal of 500 troops announced weeks ago. Technically, it is a lie, as 270 of those troops are already in the UK, and have BEEN withdrawn (past tense) and cannot be classified as "BEING withdrawn" (present continuous).

And what does the 91Èȱ¬'s political editor do? Ignore the untruths. Relegate the reporting of Brown's broken pledge to the last paragraph. Co-operate with the Labour party in suppressing the reporting of the Conservative party conference. The one thing that Nick Robinson appears to fail to do, is to meet the statutory obligation to balanced reporting of UK politics, which given his job responsibilities is unforgivable.

In short, this has demonstrated that the 91Èȱ¬ now stands for "Brown's Broadcasting Corporation", and has abandoned it's statutory obligations.

Shame on you Nick! Shame on you 91Èȱ¬!

I am disgusted, but not surprised, at the 91Èȱ¬'s supine and biased behaviour in this report, and other reports covering Gordon Brown's photo-opportunity in Iraq. Opening with the spin-doctor's "1000 withdrawn" unchallenged gives the Labour party publicity aid and assistance at the start of an election campaign.

This spin is an untruth, as Brown has double counted the withdrawal of 500 troops announced weeks ago. Technically, it is a lie, as 270 of those troops are already in the UK, and have BEEN withdrawn (past tense) and cannot be classified as "BEING withdrawn" (present continuous).

And what does the 91Èȱ¬'s political editor do? Ignore the untruths. Relegate the reporting of Brown's broken pledge to the last paragraph. Co-operate with the Labour party in suppressing the reporting of the Conservative party conference. The one thing that Nick Robinson appears to fail to do, is to meet the statutory obligation to balanced reporting of UK politics, which given his job responsibilities is unforgivable.

In short, this has demonstrated that the 91Èȱ¬ now stands for "Brown's Broadcasting Corporation", and has abandoned it's statutory obligations.

Shame on you Nick! Shame on you 91Èȱ¬!

This is the Comment that never was, because Nick has decided to suppress the original item - too many inconvenient truths! And I thought censorship and towing the Party Line was a feature of Soviet Russia that western Democrats frowned upon...never mind, Nick, the Compassion of the Tories is beginning to wear thin as the true colours show through: Persecuting Claimants because they have no alternative, Bashing foreigners because they are over here, Penalising the Ill because they are the Ill, restoring Grandiose Landed Wealth and Eminence to the Aristocracy, dismantling the Meritocracy, propping up the Plutocracy,no we haven't forgotten the Parcel of Rogues opposite, who could not even make a go of political opposition without using Tory Plants in the 91Èȱ¬, like you,to sway the electorate. O and election? What Election?

Nick Robinson and the 91Èȱ¬'s attack on Gordon Brown over the returns of British Servicepeople from Iraq is a scandal.

Mr Brown did not say 1,000 extra service people would be returning, did he?

But all the criticisms have tried to make out he did.

Likewise, all these wild and incontinent accusations were made either before it was known that the Iraqis were about to make an announcement on the subject almost immediately, or only on what was known then.

Do the Tories and their media buddies who make for more interesting copy really want announcements on UK troop deployments to be announced first by a foreign power?

Such a disgrace.

Nick Robinson owes Mr Brown and our country a very fullsome apology.

he announces a cut of 1000 troops when it is in fact 500 and times said announcement and visit to coincide with the tory conference

Just how stupid do they think we are?

they tell transparent fibs which will obviously get found and yet wonder why they are not trusted

A small but significant example of why anything a politician now says is usually treated as a lie unless it can be independantly verified as being true

We can take it then that any future Tory PM will let the Iraqis or other relevant occupied country's authorities announce the dispositions of British forces?

(mystifies me as to why this is thought to be abusive)

What is it about this dour, lack - lustre Scot who finds it so difficult to inject some positivety into his speeches instead of the repetitious promise that 'If you give me enough time I will show you all how wonderful my leadership will be for Britain'. If the intended new politics for us is of the same medicine as his past budgets, heaven help us all. By now, we have all realised that the time bombs he planted in the form of delayed taxation are starting to detonate. As a pensioner my small income has seen my tax increase by 100%....Whilst that is a personal observation, there is no getting away from the fact that since coming to office there have been no stirring speeches, only apologetic
mumblings and comiserations for the events of the past three months or more. No promise of help in real monetary terms for the individual misery left behind after the great flood, for instance instead, the most obscene and transparent bit of pre-electioneering (in a war zone to boot)of his cynically timed initiation, of 'his decision' to have 1000 troops home by Christmas. Who do you think you are kidding Mr Brown (To coin a phrase from Dad's Army), half of them are home or packing up anyway ! This visit to Iraq could qite easily have been made by our most able Minister for Defence (What is his name ?) But I suppose in true military fashion he was keeping his head down to let the P.M. have his daring moment of perceived glory. Shame on you for using our Gallant Armed Forces to bolster your political ambitions.

Reading all the above does give a very strong impressin of how little all the young Conservatives who post and blog here are.

Are we to assume that Gordon Brwn should not have visited Iraq and spoken to commanders and men there before making his statement in the Commons?

And that he should not have told our men in the field before the Commons, (when the Iraqis were about to make a similar announcement anyway) and its pettifogging tory proceduralists who are solely concerend about themselves and their own interests, not the servicepeople at all?

Nick Robinson's stance on all this is scandalously biased, and often misleading. He knows the rune: "never admit you are wrong, never apologise."

Dear Nick,
Two people in the two top jobs in the land are people who shrink away from political arguements, BROWN AND DARLING, makes you wonder the state of politics today.