Prezza's first love
One more word on the great selection debate.
Some mock John Prescott for allowing class war nostalgia to fuel his fears about selection in schools.
Yesterday I mentioned that he missed out on a bike when he failed his 11 plus. The . Failing the 11 plus meant he lost the girl of his adolescent dreams.
There is a danger that people of my generation simply don’t get how wounding this division into academic sheep and goats was. One curious experience brought it home for me. Filming in the Yorkshire mill town of Dewsbury I saw a sign for "shoddy".
Seeing my bemusement, my host told me that "shoddy" was cloth of an inferior grade made by recycling old army blankets and the like. You saw it around the town when I was a kid, he told me. The secondary modern kids wore shoddy while the grammar school boys wore proper cloth.
Missing out on bikes, girls and having to wear a shoddy blazer are experiences that shape political attitudes for life.
I'm 
Comments
Nope. Sorry. Can't agree. Why, exactly, does everybody always assume that the 11-plus selected the richer kids? That's nonsense. I passed an 11-plus and went to grammar school with kids from all different social backgrounds. And what's the alternative? Selection-by-catchment-area, perhaps? Or maybe selection-by-parents'-ambition?
Thanks, Nick. Maybe because I'm American, I've never understood what the big fuss is about selectivity. You helped to explain it, but I still don't really understand why it is a controversy. Is it because there was only one chance in a child's life to be selected?
Surely what "Prezza" missed out on most was rudimentary education in grammar and syntax. Why oh why are you not having more fun with the irony of him lecturing on education?!
This selection nonsense really winds me up. State schools already use selection, although they call it 'streaming'. Life is a selection process, and whatever Prezza's personal experiences I seriously doubt he can change that.
Maybe what is really needed is for parents to become more involved in their children's education. Parents of private school kids already do this because they pay the fees and have a vested interest. At state schools I've been involved with, teachers preferred to see parents once a year at most, at parents' evening.
I AM 84 AND CAN QUITE HAVE SOME
SUPPORT FOR JOHN PRESCOTT'S VIEWS
THE TROUBLE WITH MOST PEOPLE THESE
DAYS THE CANNOT COMPREHEND THE
GREAT DEPRESSION OF THE 1920' RUNNING
INTO THE LATE 1930'S. ONLY THE WAR
REVERSED THE TREND UNDER F.D.R. WITH
HIS NEW DEAL AND LEND LEASE FOR US
THE YOUNGER GENERATION KNOW LITTLE
OF THIS AND CARE EVEN LESS UNDER
THATCHER'S NEW (SOCIETY) WHICH SHE
PROCLAIMED DID NOT EXIST. SO THERE
HERE ENDS THE LESSON GOOD LUCK
I READ YOUR BLOG MOST DAYS
So if no child is allowed to fail at 11, at what age should they be allowed to fail?
Half of them can't fail at 18 now since Blair wants half of them to go to university.
But after that? Will every one get every job he goes for? Every one become Prime Minister (or deputy).
Get real. We're not all equal and pretending that we are doesn't make it so. Discriminating against brighter kids to make the less bright ones feel better is total nonsense, as the latter have to hit the real world some time. It's just a matter of when.
I think the crux of the matter is not so much with selection in itself but with the reputation of a school. If its good the best teachers want to go their - that keeps the standard high.
How you convince a good teacher to go to a school not in the top of the tables in order to improve it is one problem. maybe offer them higher pay.
Are their enough good teachers to go around is another. I have met some that are really good and some (especially in maths) who shouldn't be teachers.
Streaming within a school must be encouraged. It allows the brightest to shine and also has the advantage of allowing all to improove if they want to/can.
A fair system for all is required and I think that is a given. How we achieve that seems to be the real issue.
Sedulia makes an interesting point, and it's something that Prescott fails to point out - there isn't just one chance for a pupil to be selected into a grammar school. I passed my 11 plus, and my grammar had it's own entrance exam, or the 13 plus (for boarding pupils) - both at the age of 12/13. I know many people who failed their 11 plus exams and still got into the grammar with me using either method.
Sedulia, children used to sit an exam at age 11 (the 11 plus). Those who passed went to a Grammar school and pursued academic qualifications, while those who failed went to Secondary Moderns to follow more vocational paths.
The system was far more successful than its replacement in allowing the academically able poor to excel and, for example, enter Oxbridge. Tellingly social mobility has declined since their national abolition (some localities kept them though).
Where the system did fail was in the Secondary Moderns, where neither enough thought or resources were allocated, leading to schools which failed their pupils.
Is anybody really fooled by what is obviously a tactical move on Prescotts part in support of Blair?
Yes, for most people, whether they went to Grammar School or a Secondary Modern was a once-in-a-lifetime decision that fundamentally altered their chances in life.
Grammar School kids were far more likley to go to university, go get well paid jobs, or to set up their own businesses.
It was possible to move from a Secondary Modern to Grammar School, but that was rare.
I did the exact opposite of John Prescott. I was expected to fail my 11-plus and go to the local Secondary Modern. Instead, I surprised everybody and passed, gaining a place at the top boys grammar school in Halifax (Heath GS). My father had promised me a bike if I passed and I think he thought he was onto a safe bet. However, from the look on his face when I told him I had passed one could tell the mixed emotions going round in his mind. Passing certainly did me good, teaching me a healthy respect for other people and stood me in good stead during my life.
Regards
Alan Parker
PS Thanks for your contributions to the 91Èȱ¬ news bulettins. You are doing a great job.
Being a twin, one of us passed the eleven plus and one of us failed. Mother wouldn't have us split into seperate levels of education so we both went to secondary school. We're in our mid fifties now and still don't know which one passed and which failed. What a difference a day makes!