91Èȱ¬

What a surprise! Scotland Yard are closing in on Blair's cronies and suddenly there's an "intelligence"-led terror raid to grab the headlines. I'm sure it's probably valid but I always question the timing of these things.

Spot on Rick B!

I was about to say the same.

Perhaps a special investigation by Newsnight into the final outcomes of previous terrorist alerts would prove enlightening. Try the now forgotton Liquid Bomb attacks that reaped havoc on the airports last summer. Given American and UK foreign policy a major terrorist incident is likely but not before we have Cried "Wolf" many times...Lets see what happens this time.

This news item refers to a threat of Iraq1-style 'executions'. Why use a word that implies a legitimate judicial process? What you are talking about is murder.

Re Business Women.

Just watched this discussion. Seems to me that there are more factors in common between women and men running their own business than differences. passion etc is not gender specific. An other "initiative" to focus on a supposed "gender" issue" seems to me a complete waste off money. Want to encourage women grow their business from small to big?? Reduce tax on business and reduce red tape.

Nick

Why the bee? oh,lord why the bee? Please Mr Paxman, could you not take the reins' from your producer.I admired his end piece a few weeks ago and hope he follows that up in a very dry and witty way. Oh, why the bee? or have I missed something and was it for comic relief, in which case i do feel a right**some text missing**

Regarding how women should operate in business: Isn't it such a shame that two women fighting for the same cause have to disagree on how to achieve the end result.
The idea that a woman cannot operate in business is archaic. The problem seems to be that the women who have already made it feel threatened by potential allies. A case of the classic green eyed monster, only the subject in this case is business and not a man....Until middle ground and support is found, perhaps a womans worst enemy in the business world is another woman.

Regarding how women should operate in business: Isn't it such a shame that two women fighting for the same cause have to disagree on how to achieve the end result.
The idea that a woman cannot operate in business is archaic. The problem seems to be that the women who have already made it feel threatened by potential allies. A case of the classic green eyed monster, only the subject in this case is business and not a man....Until middle ground and support is found, perhaps a womans worst enemy in the business world is another woman.

Whatever happened to those arrested in the foiled attempt to cause casualties on a massive scale in US bound airliners? Following that scare, UK airports were nearly ground to a halt with the extra security. Despite that security a Russian ex-KGB officer managed to get deadly polonium into the UK, kill a Russian citizen and contaminate hotel rooms, staff and several BA planes.

If today's story turns out to be true, police will be rightly admired for stopping it. If untrue, heads of a different sort should roll, meaning sacked politicans and public servants facing the courts for perverting the system of justice.

It is important that the public is informed of the outcome of these terror alerts and raids.

Finally, what was that pointless discussion at the end of Newsnight all about? It wasnt even an argument as both women agreed with each other and Jeremy looked suitably bored.

Ref Mahmud Ibrahim #2

For the benefit of other posters :)

Mahmud Ibrahim = anarchosurfer *

'troll' [1]

1 person with 2+ ID's :(

If interested, review & judge for yourselves [2a] [2b]

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1]
[2a] my #32 /blogs/newsnight/2007/01/thursday_12th_january_2006.html
[2b] search on 'fan'

The Newsnight report yesterday (31 January) on the battle at Najaf showed weapons of the defeated militiamen being piled high in the street. The 91Èȱ¬ commentary was completely anomalous. All it did was throw doubt on whether the degree of force used by the government and supporting American and British forces was justified. It would have been enlightening to be told by the 91Èȱ¬ commentator what degree of force he knows would have prevented this militia from carrying out their plan to kill Muslim civilians. (Or how he knows what their plan was, if not that.) It is not the American and British armed forces that in principle kill civilians, or in principle use civilians to deter the attacks of the their opponents. When the German army marched illegally into the Rhineland 70 years ago, France and Britain both decided on a "lesser degree of force" and on the protection of civilian lives. The price of that and subsequent years of appeasement, and Polyanna dependance on Hitler's reiterated assurances that, though always a victim, from now on he was a moderate with no further demands to make, were the millions of military and civilian deaths of the Second World War. For all the strength of pre-war appeasement, I very much doubt, however, whether the 91Èȱ¬ archives from the second half of the 1930s could be made to yield anything as supine as last night's commentary.

"Brilliant work The Entire Newsnight team for bringing this to our attention, & making things happen! :-)"

pass the sick bag

Ref the above knee jerk speculative doubters.

A) if New Labour et al had the power to launch such resources at terrorism suspects, they had the power to launch same resources to prevent current parliamentary investigations. Neither is true (despite private wishes of some) & both investigations are underway, open & known to the public.

Enough said … disingenuous agendas of doubters shine through :(

B) Other terror cases/investigations … the timeline of prosecution are frustrating for all … the price of justice?

EXAMPLE (1) - 21 July Bombing (case in court) dating from July 2005

The very evidence based case against the alleged 21st July 2005 bombers, has taken approximately 18+ months to come into court. Rather damming self evidence made available too the public & the court has been aired.

Most members of the public would be scratching their heads as to why it takes such an evidence based case to get to court & into trail. However, it does provide an interesting benchmark for similar cases, where the investigations & evidence are of a different type (esp devoid of actual comprehensive alleged attempted footage).

But again people can go & see the presented evidence & judge for themselves [1a]

EXAMPLE (2) - Fertilizer Bomb/s Plot (case in court) dating from 2003/2004

Trial been going since March 2006 [2a]

Plan to target several UK venues with bombing campaign. Another ongoing case (long investigation) now in closing stages before verdict.The small matter of the plethora of evidence, tapes, videos, records, 600kg of ammonium nitrate fertiliser & a smaller amount of aluminium powder (for detonators its alleged).

But again people can go & see the presented evidence, the accuses own voices/video footage & judge for themselves [2b]

EXAMPLE (3) - Liquid Air Bomb Plot (investigation underway) dating from September 2006

The plan to bring down 10+ planes over the Atlantic from British Airports, an interesting timelines of events. [3a]

EXAMPLE {4} - previous midlands kidnap & murder (case in court?) 1984

Well done researchers on Newsnight.

A previous kidnap & murder by Islamic terrorists in Birmingham in 1984 [4a] Q. what was the outcome?

EXAMPLE {5} - current kidnap & murder plot (investigation underway) January 2007

In today's news via Aljazeera [5a]

EXAMPLE (6) - Other investigations

The scale of the threat is significant & with limited resources, investigations are priorities, but a tangible threat is ever present & on the rise.

The background & context to such threats are:

- the antics of radical Islamic clerics (some in jail)
- the ongoing radicalisation of Mosques (see Dispatches docu) [6a] see for yourself [6b]
- radical materials been actively pumped into communities & made available online
- rise of radical political Islam, actively pursuing agendas at odds too the society & culture of host nation [11a]
- increasing radical & separatist behaviours by growing number of British Muslims (dress, attitude, lifestyle, types of protest)
- increasing self cultural enclaves & separatist Muslims communities/ghettoes
- increasing radicalisation of British Muslims from within (polls, views etc) [7a] [7b] latest [7c]

The rise in the number of Islamic Terrorist suspects, figures from Channel 4 Fri10Nov 06 1900 [8a] & 30+ terrorist plots being tracked by Mi5 [9a] [9b]

- within UK in 2001 there were 200 suspect Islamic extremists
- within UK in 2004 there were 500 suspect Islamic extremists
- within UK in 2005 there were 800 suspect Islamic extremists
- within UK in 2006 there were 1600 suspect Islamic extremists *

* either way, that's potentially one extremist per British mosque (1,600 in UK) [10a]

EXAMPLE (5) - mistakes

As in any other area/issues dealing with CJS, mistakes & spin happens even in relation to terrorist related incidents (Forrest Gate, charles de mendez). It’s a much a propoganda war (for hearts & minds) as a physical war.

Some apologists, politically motivated groups & communities should take less solace in amplifying mistakes, acknowledge they themselves engage in spin & at least have the decency to admit the real scale of the threat.

The fact they choose not is due too:

- disingenuous, other agenda
- lack of critical awareness
- denial of failing in their ideology / faith / lifestyle/ communities

But thankfully the vast majority of British subjects/citizens of The United Kingdom, are not unaware or in denial.

Ultimately, let radical, extremist & terrorist Islamic supporters take note, why do they think British Society will stand by & nothing too protect itself? views are changing [11a]

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1a]
[2a]
[2b]
[3a]
[4a]
[5a]
[6a]
[6b]
[7a]
[7b]
[7c]
[8a]
[9a]
[9b]
[10a]
[11a]

Ref Ed Iglehart #17

Interesting link you provided to that cartoon:

A cartoon of a certain type also referenced by numerous anarcho related websites:

You are not touting certain ideas perchance?

… reminds me of someone else who promotes certain anarcho & fascists messages via a number of aliases on the NN blog

Food for Thought ... peace :)

vikingar

Ref Ed Iglehart #17

Interesting link you provided to that cartoon:

A cartoon of a certain type also referenced by numerous anarcho related websites:

You are not touting certain ideas perchance?

… reminds me of someone else who promotes certain anarcho & fascists messages via a number of aliases on the NN blog

Food for Thought ... peace :)

vikingar

Vikingar - if these terror attacks are so clear-cut - let's have a commission to investigate 7/7. And let's also look at the documentary "9/11: Press for Truth" which follows the story of the families of the 9/11 victims who pressed for the investigation of that crime and who still have 100's of unanswered questions.

And another point to those who think that people who are against neocon foreign policy are somehow unpatriotic or anti-American/unBritish, well I personally am not. I'm a very big fan of progressive Americans like Al Gore, General Wesley Clark, Dennis Kucinich (and other prominent Democrats. In fact there even quite a few Republicans who are coming round to a more sensible way of thinking on foreign policy).

As for British politics there are many in the Labour and Conservative Parties who I agree with (and of course in the Lib Dems).

Why so many duplicate posts here? What exactly do the moderators filter out, if not mutiple duplicate comments?

So you show Khalid Mahmood MP, Labour, Birmingham Perry Barr saying: "If there are any errors that have been made by the police, that should come out, there's no problem with that, but until that is proven the community have no right to accuse anybody of any bias at all."

No one should make accusations until something is proven?

I'm all for the security services protecting us, our society and our country from all genuine and significant threats, but in expanding them rapidly in pursuit of certain predetermined types of targets let us please remember the all too real history of such efforts in the past, through the centuries. A history of secret agents largely conjuring up plots to justify their own activities, even simply their own employment. A history of targeted minorities feeling increasingly separated. Catholics, Irish, various immigrant groups. Perhaps it would be good to be clear that the ideal outcome of the efforts would be the opposite of the target meeting, quota filling, that drives much other police work, to know there were a minimal number of crimes being planned, of plots being hatched.

Your reporter on the developing Democratic race was seriously annoying. He mocks Hilary Clinton for being filmed on a sofa, describing it as "Laura Ashley" when it was likely older, more valuable, and something that company has made money imitating, criticises her for having typically female mannerisms, fails to remark how outstandingly well she handled the various events he showed her at (in other words he was sexist), then completely overlooks all of Barack Obama's very obvious failings that make him very unlikely to be a successful presidential candidate. His inability to answer questions or make points in an engaging and positive way (and, worse, his propensity to do it in a way that leaves an audience or viewers feel he doesn't know the subject or isn't interested in communicating with them), his youth, lack of money and connections.

So everything HRC has spent years working on in order to be ready at this point to run for President, your reporter counts for nothing. The fact that she had a shot at reforming healthcare whilst she was First Lady, and the fact that, although she is standing on her own merits, she as President would mean not only a huge amount to many women, might make a considerable difference to how America is perceived worldwide (something that is desperately needed), but would also put Bill Clinton, one of the most successful and highly regarded US Presidents, and a man who has actively engaged with many of the world's worst problems, back in the White House, as First Man, were also not worth a word.

Notice that most of those boosting Obama were not saying he would make it to the White House, but saying how great there was a qualified Black candidate. Which is understandable, but damning with faint praise too, and a rather pathetic reflection on how incredibly oppressed, and an underclass US Black people feel. What would be interesting is seeing why those many Black elected officials across the US, including big city mayors, and others with great skills in communicating, aren't, and never have been in contention to be in contention for the highest office, whilst the young senator says he is.

Personally I'm guessing he's in contention for VP candidate with HRC, but who are the White Guys going to vote for in a Clinton-Obama ticket? Could the votes ever add up to success?

Although saving people from harmful and expensive fake treatments is worthwhile, the desperately hopeful patients and their families are a sign of something quite different that Newsnight could investigate - how medicine, and the NHS in particular is to cope efficiently, speedily and fairly with the explosion, not only of new or vastly improved diagnostic capabilities and treatments resulting from genomics, gene therapy and stem cells, but also of the availability of information, not least detailed research, via the Net, to the public. The doctors Newsnight traced down were taking advantage of the gap. The big question, the one upon which thousands of lives hang right now, people who could perhaps be give tens of more good years, is how that gap can be closed.

Improved and successful treatments could save much money, prevent useless treatment and years of expensive illness, so it isn't simply a question of spending more. It is a matter of ensuring this unprecedented time in medical science is handled suitably, that patients benefit as speedily as possible, and believe that to be the case. That outdated knowledge, vested interests, and approvals procedures designed both to create funding for the regulators and for times when the exact process by which a treatment works was unknown, do not waste years, and lives.

Ref Rick B #25

Surely you do not sign up to 911 Conspiracy Theories?

As a sidebar, governments & agencies cock-up & make mistakes, but whether some 'peacetime' desire investigation is credible in 'wartime', is rather self indulgent methinks.

In this war The Barbarians are BOTH sides of The Gate, give no succour via obsessive navel gazing .. rather Fight the Fight

vikingar